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Old 04-12-2011, 05:14 PM   #1 (permalink)
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T100 misfire problem

Have a problem with my sons T100 with a misfire. Took it to the dealer, they threw plugs, wires, one injector and still walked away with a Random Misfire Code for #6 cylinder. They did a compression check and said it was normal but now want to remove the head as they suspect something in #6 cylinder. I ended up taking it home without the Head job and it was running ok except for a slight miss on #6. Then this week it started really lurching and the check engine light from time to time starts flashing on and off but went away the next day? Anyone with some toyota mechanical experience have any ideas. I was thinking an O2 sensor on the verge of going bad.
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Old 04-12-2011, 06:10 PM   #2 (permalink)
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O2 sensor won't give you a code fer just one cylinder.

Did they swap coils around and see if the problem followed the coil?

When was the last time you changed the timing belt? How many miles do you have?
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Old 04-12-2011, 06:18 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamZipPow View Post
O2 sensor won't give you a code fer just one cylinder.

Did they swap coils around and see if the problem followed the coil?

When was the last time you changed the timing belt? How many miles do you have?
Yes they did swap coils and the misfire code stayed with #6 but originally when I brought it in they said it was misfiring on 3 and 6.

It has 150, 000 miles on it and last time I changed the timing belt was about 80, 000.

It ran pretty smooth when I first brought it home from the dealer, just a very slight misfire but seems to be getting worse again. I might have the codes checked again to see if there is anything new that came in since I brought it home from the dealer.
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Old 04-12-2011, 08:47 PM   #4 (permalink)
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No need to pay the dealer to have the codes checked. Pick up an Ultra-Gauge and check things fer yerself. This costs less than what the dealer charges to check yer engine codes just one time...

Firing order thread...

Even though I know you had it serviced at the dealership...but I would pull the #6 plug and check it over to make sure it's:
1. Dual ground NGK or Denso spark plug.
2. Gap isn't dorked up.
3. Color of the plug's business end (piccies please)

I'm starting to wonder if they truly swapped the coils around. You can do it yerself pretty easy. #3 and #6 plugs are linked together on the same coil. If the #3 plug is fine now and only #6 is bad...then it shouldn't be the coil. If they replaced the wires before the swap...then that might explain why #3 isn't showing a code now. I would still personally swap it around with another coil to make sure. Inspect the spark plug end of the coil to see how good/bad it is.

Only other thing would be that you have a bad valve in #6. When they did the compression test...did they give you the compression numbers on the cylinders?

The only other thing would be the main wiring harness could've gotten brittle and maybe be corroded/shorting some where along the way. You might be able to test the wiring harness fer resistance from the coil to the ECU.

Was any maintenance performed prior to this condition?

Another thing is to double check and clean yer grounds...especially the ones on the air plenum.
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Old 04-12-2011, 10:50 PM   #5 (permalink)
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The Compression check found all cylinders between 160-170. I also forgot to mention they put a borescope in #6 Cylinder and could not see anything obviously wrong. No Maintenance was done prior to the problem starting except an alignment. Will check on the Grounds and Wires and #6 plug. What it the firing order (which one is #6)? Thanks a bunch for your advise.
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Old 04-13-2011, 01:58 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honker10 View Post
The Compression check found all cylinders between 160-170. I also forgot to mention they put a borescope in #6 Cylinder and could not see anything obviously wrong. No Maintenance was done prior to the problem starting except an alignment. Will check on the Grounds and Wires and #6 plug. What it the firing order (which one is #6)? Thanks a bunch for your advise.
Psst...look at post #4. I put the link in there about the firing order thread.

#6 cylinder is the left side of the engine, rear plug. Just so you know...left is always referenced to the driver's perspective...left turn signal.
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Old 04-14-2011, 08:00 PM   #7 (permalink)
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As I think a little more about this...did the tech put some spark plug boot grease on the boots? It can be easy to not seat the wire/boot on the plugs. Is the wire touching the valve cover or any metal parts? I know it's a new wire but it will try to find ground the easiest way possible. Are all the wire standoffs in snapped in place with the wire securely in the standoff? Inspect the wire carefully fer any possible shorts along it's length. If it's shorting out, there may be some white residue of where it's shorting out.

Usually if #6 isn't firing and #3 is, it's usually gonna be the spark plug wire, spark plug, or maybe the injector. If #3 and #6 isn't firing, it's usually the coil (measure the primary and secondary coils of the coil pack) or the signal wiring.

When the new spark plugs were installed...did the tech put any anti-seize on the spark plug threads?
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Old 04-14-2011, 08:10 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Bam- I haven't had a chance to look at it anymore except my boy said it is missing worse than it was. I will look for grease in the boots and Never seize when I look at it this weekend. Is never seize and boot grease good things or bad? I always used never seize when I have changed them in the past but not sure if the dealer did yet. How do I measure the Coil packs? I really appreciate the time you have spent responding to my problem.
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Old 04-14-2011, 08:40 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I would go ahead and order the Ultra-Gauge...I know that California took the capability from AutoZone to read codes.

Spark plug boot grease and anti-seize is a good thing. Keeps bad things from happening.

Send me a PM with yer email address...

Measuring the coil packs will require the factory service manual (or the specs) and a multimeter.
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Old 04-14-2011, 09:56 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Email sent...hope it helps you out!

Make sure you snap some piccies of what you find and post them up. It can help out the next person who may have the same problem...as long as they search fer the thread.
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Old 04-18-2011, 03:09 PM   #11 (permalink)
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; ;; Hopefully these pictures of the plug from #6 cylinder came over.
Here is the notes off the last dealership ticket: "Performed Compression test on all 6 cylinders 1)160, 2)160, 3)165, 4)170, 5)165, 6)160. Swapped coil pack, plug wire, ecu & igniter, slight-misfire was present in all situations. (spark Plugs and #6 Injector previously replaced). Bore Scoped Cyl #6 could not see anything abnormal, have eliminated fuel & spark as a cause. Problem must be mechanical eventhough compression is good (have had sunken valve seats test good on Compression but still cause a miss). Recommend removing left cylinder head for inspection."

I don't want to pull the head unless I know that is the problem so any Ideas on things to check would be appreciated.
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Old 04-18-2011, 03:28 PM   #12 (permalink)
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; ;; ; ; [IMG]httphttp://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x332/cathleen7399/108_1520.jpg://[/IMG]Maybe this time the pictures of the Plug from #6 cylinder came over.
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Old 04-18-2011, 06:01 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Try swapping the plug with another cylinder and see if it follows the plug. Plugs can go bad...even brand new.

Was the problem there when they installed the new plugs or after they put them in? Are the spark plugs all the same model/type? How does the condition of the #6 plug compare to the one of the other ones? Looking at yer piccies, it seems that #6 is firing.

You could try a leakdown test...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leak-down_tester

Have you considered taking the valve cover off and inspecting the valve train? Did anyone take a look at the timing belt to make sure everything is still aligned? Even being off by one tooth can affect how the engine runs.

Another thing to check is the signal wire to the #6 injector. I think you mentioned they replaced the injector but I'm not sure if they checked to see if the injector was gitting a good signal. Wiring insulation could've been compromised somewhere (nick, brittle, pinched) and could be grounding out.
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Old 04-18-2011, 07:01 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamZipPow View Post
Try swapping the plug with another cylinder and see if it follows the plug. Plugs can go bad...even brand new.

Was the problem there when they installed the new plugs or after they put them in? Are the spark plugs all the same model/type? How does the condition of the #6 plug compare to the one of the other ones? Looking at yer piccies, it seems that #6 is firing.

You could try a leakdown test...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leak-down_tester

Have you considered taking the valve cover off and inspecting the valve train? Did anyone take a look at the timing belt to make sure everything is still aligned? Even being off by one tooth can affect how the engine runs.

Another thing to check is the signal wire to the #6 injector. I think you mentioned they replaced the injector but I'm not sure if they checked to see if the injector was gitting a good signal. Wiring insulation could've been compromised somewhere (nick, brittle, pinched) and could be grounding out.
I tried swapping plugs this morning and cleared the code and same code 306 which is cylinder 6 misfire comes back in. The problem was there when I took it in because is was running rough and they changed plugs.
I just tried another new set of wires and swapped around the coils again but same code comes in.

I think the injector sinal wire might be the next to check. They replaced the injector because they checked the resistance on all 6 injectors and 1 thru 5 showed 87 ohms and #6 was at 135 ohms. How would I check the connector signal wire?
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Old 04-18-2011, 07:21 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Using a FSM, there might be some wiring diagrams that you can see where the harness goes from the ECU to the fuel rail. You would have to test it from the ECU or if there is an interconnect, from there to the fuel rail plug. The FSM should show you if there is an interconnect between the ECU and the fuel rail.

I would test fer resistance and continuity. Careful visual and tactile (look and touch) testing is key.
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