Excessive Cold idle Speed= More wear

[msmclean]

I believe most savvy folks realize that 90% of the wear to an engine occurs during the brief period at cold start-up when there is cold oil being pumped to the engine components. We have also been told, to minimize this wear period, to avoid high engine revvs until sufficient warmup. It appears the Tacoma V-6 is plagued by a very high cold idle start-up rpms(mine is 1800). Dealer tech says this is normal..... Is anyone concerned about this and has anyone done anything to minimize the effects, like reduce the idle speed or use an oil that protects better at cold starts ?? TIA

[yrffej]

low rpm stat-up... no way arround it... probably worse in winter. don't worry about it. if you drive easilly until warmed up it's ok.... btw, the trans oil hasen't warmed up to temp when the engine oil has, just take it easy....

[TheKneebiter]

Nothing against you and not trying to be a prick but why does everyone try to find problems with there new trucks ? Toyota has engineers design there components to do what they do . This engine has been used for a few years now and all seems well . there are people that let a little tick bother them but then they add a louder exaust ?? I dont get it . Toyota gives you a good warranty on the drivetrain and if its not enough then purchase the 7/70 0 deductible for $635 and you will be covered just incase the high idle at startup shatters your engine into millions of pieces .

[boone]

Is it a concern? Yeah, maybe.
Is it normal? Yes.
Did Toyota engineers design the engine that way? Yes, the faster the cats heat up the lower the emissions (yay emission standards!).
Can/Should you attempt to change it? No.

The 90% figure is a little outdated. Today's multi-weight oils are fluid down to -35C (0W). When was the last time it hit -35C (-31F) in Texas?

I had an oil analysis done in March after a 5,000 mile oil change interval over the course of a New England winter (below 0F on multiple occasions). No elevated wear metals, even in such a new engine. All of the analysis' I've seen done on these 1GR-FE engines have shown very nice numbers.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...=003337#000000

I think this is one thing we don't need to be paranoid about.

Use a 0W-30 or 5W-30 oil and follow the maintenance plan schedule.

[msmclean]

Originally Posted by boone

Is it a concern? Yeah, maybe.
Is it normal? Yes.
Did Toyota engineers design the engine that way? Yes, the faster the cats heat up the lower the emissions (yay emission standards!).
Can/Should you attempt to change it? No.

The 90% figure is a little outdated. Today's multi-weight oils are fluid down to -35C (0W). When was the last time it hit -35C (-31F) in Texas?

I had an oil analysis done in March after a 5,000 mile oil change interval over the course of a New England winter (below 0F on multiple occasions). No elevated wear metals, even in such a new engine. All of the analysis' I've seen done on these 1GR-FE engines have shown very nice numbers.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...=003337#000000

I think this is one thing we don't need to be paranoid about.

Use a 0W-30 or 5W-30 oil and follow the maintenance plan schedule.

I am not paranoid but just concerned ...not to mention the additional stress of dropping the truck into gear (forward or reverse) from an idle speed of 1200 RPM)

Was that oil analysis after using the German Castrol in your avatar ? Too bad that oil is so hard to find. One of the best out there.....bar none I spent some time on BITOG and it's interesting how worked up some folks get over motor oil.

[boone]

Originally Posted by msmclean

I am not paranoid but just concerned ...not to mention the additional stress of dropping the truck into gear (forward or reverse) from an idle speed of 1200 RPM)

Was that oil analysis after using the German Castrol in your avatar ? Too bad that oil is so hard to find. One of the best out there.....bar none I spent some time on BITOG and it's interesting how worked up some folks get over motor oil.

I understand your concern. I haven't seen any red flags to indicate it's an issue though.

That UOA was from some Amsoil I tried out. It did very well. I will be changing my oil at some point this weekend. I have the newer Gold in there now and should have a UOA in a week or two on it.

I have a 2 year supply of Green.
5.5 quarts will be going in on Saturday or Sunday.

Some people get really fired up. It just gives me something to look at when I'm bored. I only have about 100 posts over there. Some of those guys really know their stuff.

[ScubaGuy]

I would not worry about engine wear unless you drive 30-40k per year or more. Any modern engine should do 200k+ without problems. I have never been anal with oil changes and never had to get rid of a car because the engine was worn or failed. Retiring my cars has always been because they either looked old, they rotted out, or the interior was shot.

My parents did junk one Corolla at 180k because of high oil consumption but it was bought used at 100k and the service history was not know. My father had a Caddy with 220k junked due to rot. I had an 79' Camaro with 170k, an 83' CrownVic with 189k, and 86' Monte with 190k. None of them were given up because of the engine or tranny.

And as Boon stated the high idle is to get the engine up to temp as fast as possible for emissions. May cars won't shift into OD until they hit a certain temp as well. A higher reving engine warms faster.

[msmclean]

Originally Posted by boone

I understand your concern. I haven't seen any red flags to indicate it's an issue though.

That UOA was from some Amsoil I tried out. It did very well. I will be changing my oil at some point this weekend. I have the newer Gold in there now and should have a UOA in a week or two on it.

I have a 2 year supply of Green.
5.5 quarts will be going in on Saturday or Sunday.

Some people get really fired up. It just gives me something to look at when I'm bored. I only have about 100 posts over there. Some of those guys really know their stuff.

Not sure about other forum members...but i would be interested to know the results of your UOA (used oil analysis) on the new castrol. It will be an intersting comparison with the UOA from the Amsoil. Long live the elves.

[boone]

Originally Posted by msmclean

Not sure about other forum members...but i would be interested to know the results of your UOA (used oil analysis) on the new castrol. It will be an intersting comparison with the UOA from the Amsoil. Long live the elves.

You got it. The last one took about 2 weeks from the time I sent it out. Maybe this time I will bring it directly to the Post Office to have it mailed. I think it got flagged the last time which is why it took so long to get there.

Anyway... I'll post the new UOA in this thread whenever I get it:

http://toyotanation.com/forum/t126660.html

Das Grün ist das elixer des Lebens!

[Back40]

Originally Posted by boone

You got it. The last one took about 2 weeks from the time I sent it out. Maybe this time I will bring it directly to the Post Office to have it mailed. I think it got flagged the last time which is why it took so long to get there.

Anyway... I'll post the new UOA in this thread whenever I get it:

http://toyotanation.com/forum/t126660.html

Das Grün ist das elixer des Lebens!

Did you just mail the black tube or did you box it? I boxed my first UOA and UPS in case the post office elected to interrogate.

[AZFIRE06]

Originally Posted by TheKneebiter

Nothing against you and not trying to be a prick but why does everyone try to find problems with there new trucks ? Toyota has engineers design there components to do what they do .

I agree. My Jeep and my old Dodge does the same thing. So the high start up is not unique to Toyota or the V-6 engine. I just follow what the owners manual says. Start the vehicle and drive away (gently) till its warmed up. There is no need for long idle times. I also notice my RMP drops down to about 1100 within seconds of starting and down to 650-750 when I put in gear.

Of course in Phoenix where its 112-115 today, the truck is generally warm before I even start it.

I am betting the Tacoma is built as well as any mid size truck and Toyota for the most part will stand behind the warrenty. I'm just not going to pick it apart. But that may because I'm guessing I'm in the older age (55) category for those who visit this site.

[Splicer]

Ignoring the 90% figure (since I do not know), I generally agree with the OP, and I do not see this as 'trying to find problems' with my new (well, year-old, now) Tacoma. I have owned and driven several new vehicles, and the Taco revs higher on cold start than most, if not all. I did ask my dealer about it, and was told it is normal, and I don't worry about it.

I am fairly sure that more than anything, it is designed to do that for emission control purposes, pure and simple. Engines typically spew out more emissions on cold start than at any other time -- unless, of course, you can prove otherwise!

[Bakemono]

I wouldnt worry about it. As long as you dont start you truck, put it in gear and floor it right away I dont see how you will damage your engine. Wait untill the temp gauge is up in the normal range and then you can ham on the motor all you want.
Both of my 4Runners ('85 and a '91) idled at 1400 rpm cold and I never had any engine problems, so dont worry about it.
Change the oil every 5,000 miles and change the air filter every 12,000 miles and you should be able to get 200,00+ miles out of your Tacoma with ease.

[BSP_Tacoma]

The owner's manual says specifically, on page 298, that the...

"Engine should be warmed up by driving, not in idle. For warming up, drive with smoothly turning engine until engine coolant temperature is within normal range."

So, does this mean to put it in gear (reverse/drive) ASAP?
I always use to let my Honda engine warm up in idle before I would put my car in gear and drive off.

With my 2TR-FE engine, it also starts of really loud and at a high RPM.

So is it better to put it in gear ASAP to warm up or what?

And what does "drive with smoothly turning engine" mean? Geez, write in english!

[worthywads]

Originally Posted by BSP_Tacoma

The owner's manual says specifically, on page 298, that the...

"Engine should be warmed up by driving, not in idle. For warming up, drive with smoothly turning engine until engine coolant temperature is within normal range."

So, does this mean to put it in gear (reverse/drive) ASAP?
I always use to let my Honda engine warm up in idle before I would put my car in gear and drive off.

With my 2TR-FE engine, it also starts of really loud and at a high RPM.

So is it better to put it in gear ASAP to warm up or what?

And what does "drive with smoothly turning engine" mean? Geez, write in english!

I assume that to mean if it's so cold, let's say -15F, that it's idling roughly, wait a few moments until it smooths out. Otherwise drive away at moderate engine speed.