First let me say that not only can I find my oil drain plug, on my own , I am able to change my own oil, or rebuild my engine for that matter. No problem. I also know that manufactures like to avoid warranty work, and of course deny a claim if they have an inch to wiggle out of it. Toyota too. So, with my last two new trucks, I've elected to let my dealer do the oil changes.
The dealer I use offers Express Lube. $34.99 in 29 minutes or less or it's free. There's also a railing 20 feet away from the Express Lube station where I stand and watch them do it on a lift. The dealer isn't far so it's convienient. I bring it in every 5K miles per the maintenance schedule to avoid BS in case an oil related warranty issue pops up.
Based on posts on this board, I'd like to use Mobil 1 syn. and the M1-102 oil filter. The claim is that ticking is reduced pointing to slight oil starvation that affects the valvetrain.I'd also like to start doing it myself. However, my concern is over how does one prove that an oil change was done on time and correctly leaving Toyota with no excuse to deny a claim. What does a receipt prove other than that I purchased the oil and filter? Technically, other than a time stamped videotape of me changing the oil, there'd be no undisputable proof.
As a side note, I'm a high end home improvement contractor. Before I start a job, I scan the pathways to where I'm working for incidental damage. Nicks on furniture, floor, walls, stains on carpet, etc. Where it's found, I take digital pictures with a cell phone placed near the damage to confirm time and date. Gotta cover my ass! This is where the videotape thought comes from. Please spare me wise cracks about paranoia. I'm paranoid, OK
So the the question is:. What are the real facts regarding changing your own oil and warranty claims related to engine damage? Anyone with real world experience? Facts?
I think by logging the oil changes in your manual and saving your oil purchase receipts will help with warranty claims. I think that Toyota will have to prove undeniably that failure to change your motor oil, etc. caused such and such a failure.
The one thing you have to realize is that the dealer is under the burden of proof in case something happens, not you.
Receipts and logging the date and mileage should be more than enough. They just need to be able to match the receipt with the date you said you changed it.
Like humanoid said, if something were to happen, engine related, they would need to prove that the problem was caused by the oil or filter. Short of seizing up when it's bone dry, it's pretty hard to fingerprint the oil as a cause of engine failure.
I would change your own oil with confidence. The warranty thing seems to have taken on a life of it's own. You have more rights than the dealer would like you to believe. In the case of an engine failing and them denying you warranty service, I think that would warrant a lawyer's services.
Keep the receipts, date and mileage log.
Also, for $20 an oil analysis can go a long way in warranty claims. Even if you get one once a year. You can catch a problem before it starts. You'll have a professionally written document with dates and mileages that tell you what's going on on the inside.
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So the the question is:. What are the real facts regarding changing your own oil and warranty claims related to engine damage? Anyone with real world experience? Facts?
Related:
If something breaks that isn't your fault and you take your truck in for a warranty repair, will a log of all your maintentance and receipts cover your ass?
__________________ 2006 Silver Streak Prerunner Access Cab Sport V6 w/ tow
Last edited by lZl jody lZl; 07-21-2006 at 10:47 AM.
Related:
If something breaks that isn't your fault and you take your truck in for a warranty repair, will a log of all your maintentance and receipts cover your ass?
The Magnusson-Moss Act covers your ass. Basically, the dealership can't deny you warranty work for using oil and filters that they don't sell.
Now if you strip the drain plug, or snap it. Drive along without knowing it and let all the oil out and it seizes, you're f^&ked. You can blame no one but yourself.
This has been gone over and over but it's up to the discretion of the dealer whether to honor your work. It's another issue as to whether what they decide is legal or not. Which is why I mentioned the lawyer for something as expensive as an engine.
If your axle snaps, they can't deny fixing it for free because you change your own oil. That doesn't make any sense.
If something breaks in your engine (related to oil and oil changes) the dealership will most likely want to undergo tests. Unless they can prove that the malfunction was directly the result of either not changing the oil often enough or the wrong type of oil was used, they can't deny your warranty. Thus, keeping the receipts shows which type of oil and filter you used. Keeping a log with dates and mileage that correspond to the dates on the receipts keep you covered as far as the length of your oil change intervals.
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2005 V6 4x4 Silver Access Cab, K&N/AEM Hybrid Intake, GC + 3oz. ARx, K&N HP-2009
265/70/17 Nitto Terra Grapplers, Black KMC XD Enduro Wheels, TRD Exhaust, URD Short Shifter
I'm somewhat familiar with Magnusson-Moss due to a dealer, a few years ago, claiming that an aftermarket alarm may void my warranty. Not true if it's installed correctly and the installer can prove that the installation had no impact on a given problem. I saw this in action last week while getting an alarm installed on my T-100. A lady came in complaining that her Avalon was stuck at the dealership. Dealership said that the alarm was to blame and may have voided her warranty. She was upset. The shop owner explained Magnusson-Moss to her and sent out his top guy to the dealership. All was resolved within the 3 hours that I was there.
Back to oil changes done by individual owners. Reading up on Magnusson-Moss I couldn't find much directed at individual owners. Seemed to be more directed at professional service outside the manufacturer. ASE shops will offer a dated receipt for services. An individual simply purchasing oil at a given date, then recording the installation of oil is something that seems likely to be debated by a manufacturer willing to press the issue in court. Following posts on this board, Ronletourneau's lemon nightmare for example, shows that Toyota will put up a fight.
Things can go wrong. Bearings can spin. A ring could get smoked. All in the course of regular driving. Based on the linked post above, they will fight you tooth and nail. Purchase receipts and scratch notes seem to me to be a somewhat weak defense. Something that a lawyer could shred to pieces in arbitration. I could be wrong.
Like you said, keeping the receipt will show the date of purchase. I suppose this approach would exclude purchasing in bulk when oil and filters are on sale. My gut feeling is that purchase receipts will only vaugely imply when the oil was installed.
Thanks for your response. You seem to be pretty sure about this. But my point in starting this thread was that I was hoping for an answer that's based on an actual case or printed facts.
This is how we work it. If we get an engine in that's all sudged up and we've never seen the car for service before then they have to come up with a few reciepts to prove that they actually performed some kind of mainenance. Our service manager doesn't give a crap whethere they are fake or not either, in fact he almost tells the customers to fake it.
On the other hand if a vehicle comes in with say a blown engine (one way or another) and everything looks like it has been maintaned decently, they get the benefeit of the doubt.
But that's our shop and our service manager will give away just about anything if you complain sometimes even if they dont' complain.
The Tacoma I had five years ago had a blown piston. The Toyota regional service manager had to approve the warranty work before it could be done.. All he asked for were my old receipts. I kept my receipts when I purchased oil filters and that was enough for him to approve the work.
This is how we work it. If we get an engine in that's all sudged up and we've never seen the car for service before then they have to come up with a few reciepts to prove that they actually performed some kind of mainenance. Our service manager doesn't give a crap whethere they are fake or not either, in fact he almost tells the customers to fake it.
On the other hand if a vehicle comes in with say a blown engine (one way or another) and everything looks like it has been maintaned decently, they get the benefeit of the doubt.
But that's our shop and our service manager will give away just about anything if you complain sometimes even if they dont' complain.
another thing other than receipts is to sign and date your log book, this will help prove you did it, I am not a lawyer, but I beleive that it helps solidify your claim, IF something acually happens.
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, I am able to change my own oil, or rebuild my engine for that matter. No problem. I also know that manufactures like to avoid warranty work, and of course deny a claim if they have an inch to wiggle out of it. Toyota too. So, with my last two new trucks, I've elected to let my dealer do the oil changes.
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