Dealership Maintenance Schedule - Total Rip?

[cwhiley]

My truck hit 25K the other day and I was due for an oil change so I took it to the dealership for it's regular 5K oil change and a tire rotation. Man they charge a lot, came to $50.21 for the oil change and tire rotation. Many of you may chastize me for not doing it myself but I'm terrible with all things mechanical and while I could probably do it #1 I'm lazy and don't want to get dirty and #2 I prefer the peace of mind by letting qualified people handle all that. Pitiful I know but that's the deal...

Anyhow I realized that I'm going to be due for a 30K major service the next time an oil change is due. It is EXPENSIVE. Let me put the list of what they do and you guys can tell me how ridiculous it is to let the service (profit) center do this for what they charge.

Inspect:

• Multi-Point Inspection
• Brake Pads/Shoes
• Steering/Suspension
• Air Conditioning Function
• Spark Plug Wires
• Exterior Lights
• Road Test Vehicle

Adjust:

• Parking Brake
• Rotate & Balance Tires
• Lube Chassis/Driveline
• Clean and Adjust Rear Brakes
• Install Engine Treatment
• Install ATF Conditioner (automatic transmission fluid conditioner?)
• Service & Test Battery
• Clean Air Flow Sensor
• Clean Throttle

Replace:

• Engine Oil
• Engine Oil Filter
• Engine Coolant (is listed but he said 05's & up they don't do this cos there's some 100K special fluid in them)
• A/C Cabin Filter
• Air Filter
• PCV Valve
• Spark Plugs (Platinum 60K and Iridium 120K plugs additional $)
• Wiper Inserts
• Transmission Fluid (he said he didn't think they did this on newer transmissions)
• Front Differential Fluid (Add $35)
• Rear Differential Fluid (Add $35)
• Transfer Case Fluid (Add $35)

Other:

• Automatic Car Wash

So all that for $359.34 (basic fee) and I suppose those three additional fluids for the 4WD stuff for a total of 464.34 + tax by my calculation. Seems like a bit much. I suppose I could bring in the fluids, spark plugs, and such and save some money but I didn't ask.

So tell me if I'd be a fool for paying for such a thing. While I know it's a ripoff I want to take really good care of my truck as I plan on keeping it until it blows up.

[boone]

So they aren't going to change your coolant or transmission fluid?

So they are physically going to do what?

An oil change, change spark plugs, air filters, PCV and differential fluids.

For $465?!?! Are you insane?

By my rough calculations, TOP quality parts and fluids would cost about $200. Of course they are using stuff that is probably closer to $100 total. With the ridiculous rate of labor they charge, it makes sense.

What can I say? It's time to analyze your priorities. Would you rather get dirty or spend an extra $300?

Maintenance isn't cheap, especially when you're paying other people to do it. All this stuff is doable unless you're handicapped.

[msibille]

I don't know that it's a "rip-off" as much as the reason why some of us learn how to do these things correctly, take the time to do it, and get our hands dirty doing it. If we could get it done by someone else, just as well, for just as cheap, there would be damned few of us doing it.
But, more to your issues- did the $50.21 incl tax? Most places will charge $2 to $5 per wheel to rotate -unless you get a "courtesy rotation". (e.g. Firestone ctrs will rotate Firestone or Bridgestone tires for free. Ours does it even if they were OE tires.) So, figure $10 to $20 for the rotation, $4 or $5 for sales tax if that incl tax, couple bucks for "haz. waste disposal fee", and you've basically paid $25 to $35 for an oil change. A little steep, but you didn't have to "learn how", buy the mat'ls, crawl under the vehicle, get your hands dirty, and go dispose of the oil at Walmart. It's a choice. Here you can learn an awful lot of what you need if you choose to get your hands dirty to get the same svc items done in your driveway for $10-$15. Just decide whether your time and clean hands are worth $40.


As for the list, we can guide you as to which items are "real" and which are BS to fluff up the list and make it look like they did a lot.-

Inspect: -> This is worth nothing to me personally. A few minutes on the odd Saturday afternoon -besides, I'd rather look things over myself on a regular basis. But, if you don't want to learn what to do, how to do, or get your hands dirty doing it, then you pay for the service.


Adjust:
Parking Brake ; Clean and Adjust Rear Brakes-> If you deal with someone regularly (e.g. my dealing with Firestone) they'll often do an inspection and this for free.

Rotate & Balance Tires -> See above

Lube Chassis/Driveline -> Again, $10 grease gun, a tube of grease, and your time, and you'll have this covered for the first 100k miles

Install Engine Treatment -> There is ABSOLUTELY NO FREAKIN' WAY I'd let them do this. If it ain't in the mfr's recommendations I wouldn't do it. Don't look at the dealership's "Recommended Svc Booklet". Look in the OEM Manual.
Install ATF Conditioner (automatic transmission fluid conditioner?) -> Same as above.

Service & Test Battery -> a little water and baking soda, and old tooth brush and your time -or pay the man. I don't feel you need to test your battery (look at the green eye) but if you do, you may get it done at AutoZone for free. (But don't do that if you don't ever deal with them. I'm frugal, but imposing on a business for free stuff when you don't patronize them is just being greedy.)

Clean Air Flow Sensor -> If this isn't in the Toyota manual, I wouldn't do it either.
Clean Throttle -> Sounds like smoke and mirrors to me.


Replace:
Engine Oil & Engine Oil Filter -> See above

Engine Coolant -> Not needed that early, as you noted.
A/C Cabin Filter -> Use the SEARCH button here to do it yourself, either Toy part for about $30 or make your own for a couple of bucks -or pay the man.

Air Filter -> under $20 and your time, or pay the man
PCV Valve -> I don't think this is on the svc interval -if it even exists on the 2005+Taco
Spark Plugs (Platinum 60K and Iridium 120K plugs additional $) -> I don't recommend "moving up" to iridium unless they are specifically listed on the chart under the hood or in the OEM manual. Aftermarket (incl. dealer-supplied aftermarket) plugs may "fit", and they may "function" in the same place, but often not well. Platinums ran like crap in my 1994 Sidekick. If Toy lists them as an option for the engine, that's different. Basic plugs, under $15 for parts + time. or pay the man.

Wiper Inserts -> come on, you can do this. $10 MAX and 15 minutes. BARELY get your hands dirty.

Transmission Fluid -> WS ATF fluid is not to be changed until something like 105k mi -read the manual (I don't have it here.)

Front Differential Fluid (Add $35) -> Not unreasonable if you're not doing it yourself. Under $10 to DIY

Rear Differential Fluid (Add $35) - > same as above

Transfer Case Fluid (Add $35) -> same as above

Other:

Automatic Car Wash -> you don't need an answer for this one.



You should be able to make a decision from this and other posts you'll get.

Bottom line- they ain't in business just 'cause they like to do public service.
Would you buy the tools, manuals, and learn to do this stuff for less than $40/hr? Apparently not, if so, you'd be doing it. If you save $20, and are in a marginal tax bracket of 17%, you "made" $24. If it's not worth $24/hr for you to do it, don't gripe about paying them. OTOH, nothing wrong w/ shopping around, especially to make sure you only pay for svc that actually happens.

Again, if you don't want to learn how to do it, and get the tools, then even a simple "inspection" is value to you. Not much is free in this world -except this forum.

[2 tacomas]

The 30K service is a total rip-off, it is basically a glorified oil change. They will happily "inspect" parts on your truck and then recommed a bunch of things that will need to be replaced....at an additional fee. You could take your truck to Jiffy-Lube or other oil-change place and they will check all of your fluids(and top-off any that are low), replace wiper blades (if needed), replace your pcv valve(if needed), change your spark plugs (if needed), grease your chasis, and do pretty much everything else listed (other than check/ adjust the parking brakes) for about $40 (add more if you get parts replaced...but it will not cost anywhere near to what the dealer will charge). I am not recommending that you take it to a place like Jiffy Lube, but I am simply putting what the dealership is trying to charge you in perspective. Learn to do a few of those things yourself (i.e. grease the chasis.....increadibly simple and you only need to spend about $15 in parts that will easily cover you to 100,000 + miles) and you will save yourself A LOT of money in the long run and you will get the satisfaction of knowing the job was done right (you would be amazed how many dealerships charge customers for services that were never done on their vehicles). If you can't change a wiper blade yourself you have no business driving any vehicle, same goes with changing you air filter and inspecting your battery. I'm not saying you need to do all your own maintenance, but some of those things are ridiculously simple and take all of 5 minutes to do.

Bottom line though, it's your hard earned money- spend it how you want.

[cj99si]

Probably the best thing you can do for your truck and wallet is find a good independent mechanic.

[AZFIRE06]

cj99si advice to find a good independent mechanic is sound. I have found that in many cases for routine maintanence (oil changes, etc), dealerships can be competative in pricing for service. Especially if you look for specials that service department run almost monthly.

Newer vehicles have longer service intervals than older cars. The cost may seem high, but when you acount for the miles driven, its not so bad. For example, a vehicle going in for the 30K service ($360), and also had 11 oil changes in the 30K at $27/per change. This comes out to $0.0219/mi driven.

Labor can be high at the dealership. But, comparing to other service fields (plumbers, electricians, etc). The rate per hour is pretty much in line with the other trades.

For some work I do myself, others I do take the vehicle into a certified mechanic. Do the things your comfortable with, for the rest find a mechanic that you trust.

[lightningxb12]

DAMN - All of the responses are excellent!!!!

Couldnt have said any thing better my self

[Pb]

I can do all of that stuff myself, except for the ATF change. I'll let the dealership mess with the trans since it's not just a simple drain and refill.

Also beware, when they say "grease your chassis". If you have a 2WD then there's nothing to grease! It's all sealed bearings. Only the 4WD's have grease fittings. And those are easy to do yourself. There's 5 fittings. 3 on the main drive shaft; 2 on the front drive shaft.

As for the brakes, It's cheaper to just buy new pads, rotors off of the internet than to let the dealership do a full brake job. I've got some EBC rotors and Hawk pads ready to be installed. Install is easy. Just remove a bolt on the calipers, and pivot them back out of the way. Pull off the rotor, put the new one on. Unclip the pads and put new ones in. I haven't messed with the drums, but they're probably pretty easy too. When they need it I'll probably just take the drums to Midas and get them resurfaced.

[ShawnM]

I agree, find a good independant shop to do it. You can tell them to use oem parts and it will still be cheaper than the dealer. For god sakes dont take it to one of those jiffy lube places.

[fmquadri]

that being said - does anyone know a 'good reputable indy toyota repair shop in the East Bay area of Nor Cal? Specifically Fremont - ish, CA?

just got quoted 459$ for a 60k service at Fremont Toyota... gotta shop around.

[tonythemarine]

i like the car wash.

[Janster]

Originally Posted by lightningxb12

DAMN - All of the responses are excellent!!!!

Couldnt have said any thing better my self

Yeah....

It's definately a RIP-OFF when you have them do all that.

Another reason to do the work yourself. Even if YOU did everything on their list - it'd still save you an arm & a leg.

[GregM111]

Edit: Why does everyone hate Jiffy Lube? I have met all the guys at the local one I go to and they at least look like they know what they are doing. Has experience proven otherwise?

If you think $400 is bad, try a Nissan Frontier.

When I took my Frontier in for the timing chain issue which the idiot dealer claimed wasn't there, they asked if I wanted to do my 30,000 mile service. I was quoted $689!!!!!! I had Jiffy Lube do my front and rear diff's, transfer case and manual transmission for less than half of that. I have changed the oil myself in the past and may start doing my own differential and manual trans if they are a simple drain and fill.

By the time I have a 30,000 mile service due I'll be out of this Frontier and hopefully be into a new Tacoma. My Nissan hits Craig's list this weekend and I am currently shopping for a Super White, TRD Access Cab 4X4.

All fluids, brakes, filters and wipers are done by me or an independent mechanic

Greg

[sechsgang]

Edit: Why does everyone hate Jiffy Lube? I have met all the guys at the local one I go to and they at least look like they know what they are doing. Has experience proven otherwise?

Yes, my experience with Jiffy Lube says it's a bad bad place. The story is too long for me to type it right now, though. The run down is that they were going to sell a timing belt change on a vehicle that had a timing chain that never needed adjustment / replacement. They wanted some $250. They were either incredibly dumb or criminals. Either way, a bad bad place, at least this particular one ....
O yeah, and another one (before that ^) forgot to screw the oil filler cap back on.

I won't go there ever again ....

[GregM111]

Originally Posted by sechsgang

Yes, my experience with Jiffy Lube says it's a bad bad place. The story is too long for me to type it right now, though. The run down is that they were going to sell a timing belt change on a vehicle that had a timing chain that never needed adjustment / replacement. They wanted some $250. They were either incredibly dumb or criminals. Either way, a bad bad place, at least this particular one ....
O yeah, and another one (before that ^) forgot to screw the oil filler cap back on.

I won't go there ever again ....

Fair enough.

I kind of trust them well enough to do drain and fill operations but I have seen some real toothless, homely looking jobbers that work at some locations. I pass by those.

Greg