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Old 04-30-2007, 07:24 PM   #1 (permalink)
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V6 1GR-FE engine & Octane Rating

This may explain the ongoing debate as to which Octane Rating to use:

1GR-FE 4.0L V6 from a 2007 Toyota Tacoma. The 1GR-FE is the 4.0L version. Bore is 94 mm and stroke is 95 mm. Output is 236 hp (183 kW) at 5200 rpm with 266 lb-ft (382 Nm) of torque at 4000 rpm on 87 octane, and 239 hp at 5200 rpm with 278 lb-ft at 3700 rpm on 91 octane. This engine features Toyota's single VVT-i, variable valve timing, system and a compression ratio of 10.0:1. Inside, the 1GR uses a taper-squish combustion chamber design with matching pistons to improve anti-knocking and engine performance, while also improving intake and fuel efficiency. Toyota adopted a siamese-type intake port, which reduces the surface area of the port walls and prevents fuel from adhering to such walls. This engine has special cast-iron cylinder liners cast into the block, which are a spiny type to improve adhesion between the liner and cylinder block. With these special thin liners it is impossible to bore the block. In the event of cylinder wall damage (scoring, deep protrusions, etc), the entire cylinder block must be replaced. For increased block rigidity, the 1GR also receives a high temperature plastic insulator/protector, which fills the empty space between the outer portion of the cylinders and block material common to open deck engines. For increased cooling efficiency, the 1GR employs water passages between the bores of the engine. There are such 2 passages for each bank for a total of 4. This reduces cylinder hot-spotting and keeps combustion chamber temperatures more uniform.

Some applications:

2003 Toyota 4Runner
2003 Toyota Land Cruiser (Europe)
2005 Toyota Tacoma
2005 Toyota Tundra
2005 Toyota Fortuner (Middle East)
2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser
2007 Toyota Tacoma
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Old 04-30-2007, 09:16 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Have you seen gas prices? I wouldn't give a damn if toyota recommended 110, I would still run 87
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Old 04-30-2007, 09:40 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njmueller363
Have you seen gas prices? I wouldn't give a damn if toyota recommended 110, I would still run 87
im with you on that!! ive been running anything above 89, but im back on regular now the the gas prices have started goin way up again! remember the good ol days(as far as i can remember anyway),when gas was 79 cent a gallon??
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:33 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Since I run premium anyway (better gas mileage and driving pleasure), I wish Toyota would up the compression ratio to produce more output.
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:40 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I wish Toyota would up the compression ratio to produce more output.[/QUOTE]

You need one of these to fix that problem.

http://www.urdusa.com/product_info.p..._id=1260198051
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Old 05-01-2007, 12:36 AM   #6 (permalink)
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i was considering doing several dyno runs after runnig both 89 and 91 for several months but i guess this answers my question.

thanks man, where did you get your info?
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Old 05-01-2007, 02:08 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reinvent
You need one of these to fix that problem.

http://www.urdusa.com/product_info.p..._id=1260198051
Yeah, true that. With due time after I get a CAI, headers, and dual exhaust hopefully that will be the finishing touch.
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Old 05-01-2007, 05:47 AM   #8 (permalink)
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The good news about this is that we have a light, adaptable and highly efficient engine. The bad news is that it is also disposable, since it can not be rebored if you have cylinder problems or want to increase your engine displacement.
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Old 05-01-2007, 09:22 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njmueller363
Have you seen gas prices? I wouldn't give a damn if toyota recommended 110, I would still run 87
Depends, if you get better mileage on the 89, you'll still save in the end. Doesn't even take that much of an increase in fuel efficiency to make it cost effective.
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Old 05-04-2007, 11:39 AM   #10 (permalink)
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i was thinking yesterday when i amost put 91 octane again, where did this guy get his info from?

i was thinking he was the one that did the test but i thought, ok 266 ft lb of torque is to the flywheel so were is the info for 278 ft lb of torque.

i personally wouldnt mind using 91 octane for the gained torque.
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Old 05-04-2007, 12:25 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by PA452
Depends, if you get better mileage on the 89, you'll still save in the end. Doesn't even take that much of an increase in fuel efficiency to make it cost effective.
The (limited) numbers I ran a while back w/ regard to my mileage indicate I'm ahead w/ higher octane when 87 is over $3.10/gal, but the increase in mileage is not enough to overcome the price difference when it's below.
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Old 05-04-2007, 12:26 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panama Red
The good news about this is that we have a light, adaptable and highly efficient engine. The bad news is that it is also disposable, since it can not be rebored if you have cylinder problems or want to increase your engine displacement.
But when was the last time that you had to rebore an engine?
I know it is done, but unlike 50 yrs ago, it's not at all common.
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Old 05-04-2007, 01:57 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msibille
The (limited) numbers I ran a while back w/ regard to my mileage indicate I'm ahead w/ higher octane when 87 is over $3.10/gal, but the increase in mileage is not enough to overcome the price difference when it's below.
It doesn't matter what the price of 87 octane is. The differential between 87 and 91 octane is always about $0.20 regardless of how high gas prices get. Whether or not the added fuel efficiency is worth the additional $0.20 has nothing to do with the total price of the gas.

This brings up the other thing I don't understand: people who switch to lower octane gas when the prices go up. 91 octane is always 20 cents more than 87 octane. No matter what the gas prices are currently, it always costs about $3.50 more to fill up with 91 octane. Why do people only worry about saving the $3.50 when the gas prices go up? Makes no sense.
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Old 05-04-2007, 02:17 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fluxaholic
It doesn't matter what the price of 87 octane is. The differential between 87 and 91 octane is always about $0.20 regardless of how high gas prices get. Whether or not the added fuel efficiency is worth the additional $0.20 has nothing to do with the total price of the gas.
Actually, I've been noticing lately they're actually factoring that in. I've noticed a 15 cent difference some places between 87 and 89, sometimes more.

But I agree. And FWIW, my truck does get better mileage with 89 than 87, and doing the math, I find that in the end I save by going the 89 route, even if the mileage is only slightly better.
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Old 05-04-2007, 02:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fluxaholic
It doesn't matter what the price of 87 octane is. The differential between 87 and 91 octane is always about $0.20 regardless of how high gas prices get. Whether or not the added fuel efficiency is worth the additional $0.20 has nothing to do with the total price of the gas.

Sorry, but you're mistaken-

Example- These aren't the actual numbers as I don't have that info in front of me, but let's say 87 octane is $2.75/gal and 91 is $2.95
If I get 16.90 mpg with 87 that's 16.27c/mi
If I get 17.75 mpg with 91 that's 16.62c/mi
=> Cheaper to use 87 octane even though the 91 gives me 5% better mileage per gal.

Second example- Let's say 87 octane is $4.10/gal and 91 is $4.30/gal
If I get 16.90 mpg with 87 that's 24.26c/mi
If I get 17.75 mpg with 91 that's 24.23c/mi
=> Cheaper to use 91 octane


Contrary to intuition, if the 91 octane price was a fixed percentage more than 87, then it would either always be cheaper to use 91 or always cheaper to use 87.

Example - if 91 octane cost 10% more than 87, then you would have to get 10% better mileage with 91 octane in order to break even. (if you only got 5% better mileage, it would cost you 4.8% more to drive w/ 91 octane)


The fact that, as you pointed out, the differential price rarely changes much at all, despite 87 octane going from $1.50 to $3 per gal is precisely the reason why it makes a difference as to what the price of 87 octane is. (since you can state the price of 91 as [price of 87 + 0.20] in your example) It could also be described by saying that when 91 octane is above a certain price -assuming that the price differential is the same.

Last edited by msibille; 05-04-2007 at 02:58 PM.
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