Is Tundra the right vehicle?

[cjstang]

New to forum and looking at alternatives. I've owned about 8 Fords over 20 years. Needs: 4x4, extended cab, towing 2 horse trailer (up to 6K lbs). Top 3 priorities (besides above): reliability, reliability, and reliability. This leaves the Big3 at an obvious big disadvantage. Presently own an '03 F-150 - meets all the needs, reliability is not good enough, dealer service is (surprise) horrendous (I'm up to 5 I couldn't recommend, 0 I could). Does the Tundra really have the umph to pull this kind of weight (7200 lbs max with right options I believe)? Looked at the Titan but doesn't look like this one is ready for prime-time yet (front brakes in particular). Just looking for some honest input without the 'My Mfg-Rules!' mentality. Any input, particularly dealers and specific mechanics, would be highly appreciated. Thanks.

[mwebber78]

Well let me just say that I needed a pickup too and I shopped all the names above including the Nissan. My requests were it had to be a crew cab, it had to be a 4x4 and it had to be quiet and reliable. I am a car person so I approached this whole process slowly and it took me the better part of a year to pick my 05' Tundra Double Cab TRD w/ factory tow package. I drove the domestics but the Chevy/GMC crew's are obviously in need of a re-do, the Dodge has no real "crew cab" and the Titan I drove was powerful and otherwise great but the ridiculous door design made me uncomfortable (who the hell puts the door beltline that high with the controls for the windows way the hell forward?????). I drove the Toyota last and I was like - yeah this is the one. It was quiet, poweful and is fuel efficient. The V8 has 40+ horses more this year, the torque is up too and they added a better and heavier duty 5-spd automatic. I think it's no accident that three of the Tundra's at the dealership were owned by their Toyota Tech's...Yea they are that reliable. They have gotten the JD Power award for intial quality in the large pickup segment. I now have 3K miles on it and its been trouble free, good on gas and fun on every ride I've been on! From snowy backroads to the highway to my field and hunting it goes where I want it. I have loaded the bed with crap and hitched up a trailer and put 5 people in that truck, still pulls strong. If you tap the brakes on a decline while towing it automatically downshifts for you to save your brakes. If you turn the key to the " on " position the engine cranks itself until it starts without you holding the key. I could go on and on but I love it. If you have specific Q's about it you can msg me via email off this forum at mwebber78@hotmail.com hope this helps. PS - first time toyota owner. Ive owned Nissan, Subaru, Dodge and Suzuki vehicles

[2tacomas]

I would go w/ a 2005 Tundra- the earlier model Tundra's aren't bad, but my friend just bought an 2005 (he traded in his 2002 Tundra) and let me tell you that thing has no problem hauling. He uses it tow to a car on a trailer and it does a great job (his 2002 did a respectable job as well...but you can tell a difference between that and his new 2005). My dad has a fairly new Ford F-150 and while it is a pretty nice truck, it has a lot of little stuff that is constantly going wrong...and it has only gotten worse since he has hit 65,000 miles. If you are looking for reliability, I would go with the Tundra- it is pretty tried and proven in my opinion.

[cjstang]

Thanks for the replies! Tomorrow being President's Day, I'll stop by the local dealer for a test drive. I shopped our local 'Auto Mile' Saturday - the domestics looked like any other day (i.e. slow), the Toyota dealer was swamped! They even had 3 (at least) people guiding visitors to parking places (can't imagine the Big3 givin' a hoot, although they didn't need it). They had only 2 Tundras at the showroom, 1 used (supercharged no less). Visits to their storage lot had to be accompanied by a salesperson (for security I was told), which would have meant a LONG wait - I'll plan on getting there early. A couple of things I did notice - the Tundra still has rear drums which, I think, is unique for a new 'full-size' truck; and the rear axle looked awefully small (around a 7.5" ring I'd imagine). But I hear only good things about them. I imagine I'd get the hairy eyeball from some friends and family if I bought a Toyota (or Nissan) truck, but they'll get over it (I don't have any hesitation on this point).
A couple more questions if I could:
What's the going price for the Tundra (i.e. cost below sticker)? Not to many newspaper ads for 'em (unlike the Big3) - maybe they don't need them!
Aftermarket support? Not looking for anything wild, just mild upgrades.
Again, any suggestions for local dealers (Milford, MA area), or particular Toyota mechanics would be much appreciated.
Thanks again!

[mwebber78]

Just noticed that you are in Mass., I'm not that far away in S. Maine and they are ad. ext. cab SR5 V8 4x4 Tundra's at about 3500 under window sticker price on avg.... There has also been some special financing depending on your situation. I picked the crew cab version and I only moved a few thou on the price but I got a great lease deal ( I lease my vehicles)

The aftermarket stuff is pretty well supported by Toyota and the major manuf. You will find plenty of hood protectors, ventshades, performance intakes, alloys, brake and cover acc. on the web.

Just a note, take a look at the crew cab version if your going to be hauling and need room and such. It is NOT based on the Tundra but is instead its own frame, doors, bed (which is deeper) than the ext. cabs. Just a note...

[cam2Xrunner]

Welcome to TN. It sounds like the Tundra Double cab is right for you. Another good forum for all the tundra information you could ever need is www.tundrasolutions.com You just have to register to read the posts.

[mwebber78]

cj:

keep us posted on what you choose, ext or doublecab (that would be my pick, but Im partial since I have one)
Happy shopping!!!!!

[cjstang]

Again, thanks for the info!
I test drove an Access Cab on President's Day (the snow not only kept the crowds light - and it was early - but made fror some real test driving, although heavy acceleration was out ). My opinions:
- the access cab seems noticeably smaller than on other 'full-size' trucks, probably too small for my needs (its used to carry 2 70-80 lbs dogs). But since the double cab looses only 0.4" in bed length that looks like a good alternative. The other option would be to remove the rear seat altogether (which I nearly did in the Ford). And thanks for the info that these are built on a unique frame (makes sense given the above!). [I really prefer the step side styling however - personal taste, there's no rationale for that .]
- the interior is fairly plain-jane compared to some others, but its not a big deal to me - reliability is! I'd be looking at a 'Limited' with leather seating which looks like it spruces things up a bit.
- it has available options the better-half would want, particularly the power sliding rear window (it is great with the mutts!) [For some reason she's also big on sunroofs - only avail on the double-cab.] The downward travel of the rear window on the double cab might work a whole lot better too (the dogs to climb out, once one of them succeded to crawl onto the tonneau while traveling - yikes).
- I'd prefer 4 wheel disc but I'll take a look at reviews for brake performance (I'm BIG on steering and brakes - all other functions are (much) further down the list - on any vehicle IMHO).
- Looks like it still will come down to the Titan or Tundra. My feeling is the Titan may be a better 'fit' for me (particularly towing power) but at greater 'risk' however.

P.S. Anybody looking for a near-mint 2003 F-150 Lauriet 4x4 with every option?
P.S.S. Why is it this forum seems so much more unbiased and less 'Toyota Rules' than forums for other mfg's? [Maybe its the people who own 'em are more interested in reality than blind 'loyalty'? kinda like me - well, maybe not 10 yrs ago - live and learn.]
Thanks again.

[2tacomas]

Originally Posted by cjstang

P.S.S. Why is it this forum seems so much more unbiased and less 'Toyota Rules' than forums for other mfg's? [Maybe its the people who own 'em are more interested in reality than blind 'loyalty'? kinda like me - well, maybe not 10 yrs ago - live and learn.]
Thanks again.

This forum is less biased because many of the people on this forum are on their 2nd or 3rd Toyota Truck. As much as I hate to admit it,(this is just my opinion so don't blast me for it....but I know I am far from being alone on this) the older Toyota trucks were a hell of a lot more reliable and trouble free than the new ones (and customer service use to be a hell of a lot better than it is now). Don't get me wrong, compared to other manufacturers (I would be very, very cautious about going with a Nissan- the previous model Frontier's were giant pieces of crap that always had stuff going wrong with them- I know b/c I helped my friend work on his damn truck for two weekends almost every month until he sold the piece of junk. I know the Titan looks nice,and it might turn out to be a good truck in the long run.... but I would be very, very cautious) Toyota is still at the top when you are looking for reliability, quality, and resale value (Toyota kicks major butt in this category). My 1988 Toyota 4x4 Pickup was damn near bullet proof- I never had any major problems with it and had very few "minor problems" even at 190,000 miles (I totaled it last year). My 2004 has been for the most part trouble free, however it has recently developed a problem when starting (you can read about this on my post that is labeled "Hard Starts......w/ my 2004 Tacoma 3.4L) but there is a TSB that I am cautiously hopeful will remedy the problem.
My opinion- test drive a quad cab limited Tundra and see how you like it......I think as far as reliability goes with full size trucks- Tundra is still at the top of that category.
One more thing....I just checked out the NHTSA website and there are 13 registered consumer complaints against the 2004 Tundra and 63 registered consumer complaints against the Titan.

[mwebber78]

CJ:

Just remember that the nice V8 engine sound that the Titan has also means that it sucks gas down at a rate of 3 - 4 mpg quicker than the Tundra. Also, look at some TSB websites and you will see 2 TSB's for the Tundra 05's, and something like 15 for the 05' Titan....They are nice trucks, I tested one - but they are awefully thirsty, a lot less quiet, and a lot less reliable (go ask the service manager at any Nissan dealership) Nissan is doing their 1st full size pickup so this is to be expecte!!! Also, if you can live with the awkward center console making your arm sit mid chest level and the door having no arm rest and the controls being forward then you are a better man than me!!!!! I know after driving in it for an hour I would have chosen the GMC or FORD then the Titan..... (besides the one I drove for an hour came back with a problem with the coolant system, smelled like it was burning something) I have owned 3 Nissan's so take my word, they are nice - but the Titan needs another year. I would tell the same thing to poeple looking to get a new Taco, wait a year or two if you can!

[cjstang]

Yeah, on the Titan I'd agree that there appears to be some serious issues to work out. I've been following their forum for a while now - more than few very unhappy customers, and I don't need more aggrevation than I've got now. To be honest I haven't test driven one yet (still plan to just for the heck of it), but yes, I'd be hard pressed to spend that kinda cake on that truck just yet. Driving a 5.4L Ford now, I'm used to the poor gas mileage, its not a show stopper for me (at least for the truck). Its certainly possible I'll wait till Sept to see what changes occur for '06 (for all mfg's). The other option is to 'build' one myself - i.e. one 25-30 yrs young. There are a lot of benefits here (mainly cost, from initial price to sales & excise taxes, insurance, maintenance and parts cost, etc), and obviously I could build the truck the way I want it to be (and with the money saved I could buy a high MPG car and likely still be ahead). 10 yrs ago it would be a no-brainer, now I'm not sure at all I could find the time. . .but I can dream. . .

[cjstang]

Just an update - looked at a double-cab Limited today. Got nearly all the goodies, the only one not there I'd prefer is the side airbags, always a good idea especially in a truck. Really liked the interior of the Limited with leather (of course you pay for it!). It did have the sunroof and power rear window (I liked that) that the wife would want. It also had the Off-Road package that I'd rather not have since you step down to 16" rims/tires (it won't see true off-road). Sticker was $38.4K (ouch), now we'll see what they'd offer for the trade (they test drove it, but didn't offer any $ figure), and how much over dealer invoice they'd accept. Since I'm not in a rush, we may also just order one with the prefered setup for me. That would also give time to sell the present vehicle myself (with all the +&-'s that brings).
I'd think Toyota has done their homework, but as I've posted before, man, that rear diff looks awefully small (maybe I'm just use to the Ford 9"/8.8" - pretty darn bulletproof), and the rear drum brakes. Both of these are less than ideal for the towing we'd do, but I haven't see any reports of reliabilty problems with the diff (anyone else?).
Being a pain, I'll be asking (mandatory for sale actually) for such things as wholesale price on all parts (whether I purchase or installed at dealership). If the reliability is as good as I'd expect (and they say) this should be a minor point anyways.
Again, thanks for all the advice and input.