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Can Toyota stave off CarPlay, Android Auto?

7K views 63 replies 17 participants last post by  got-rice 
#1 ·

http://www.autonews.com/article/20170227/OEM06/302279971/can-toyota-stave-off-carplay-android-auto
DALLAS -- With the launch of the 2018 Camry this summer, Toyota is rolling out an upgraded infotainment system with features such as dynamic traffic information and high-speed wireless Internet connections. But what really makes the system stand out from the rest of the industry is that it still doesn't accommodate Apple CarPlay and Android Auto.

Toyota remains the only major global automaker with no plans to incorporate the smartphone integration interfaces from Apple and Google into its infotainment systems.

Toyota says its recently upgraded Entune 3.0 infotainment and app suite is a better alternative for the brand and replicates many of the features and applications in the Apple and Google products, but with better integration. Its Lexus marque uses a version called Enform.

"It's our job as an auto manufacturer to have an engaging user experience, whether it's how the car feels when you're behind the wheel or how to use the center stack and engage with smartphone applications," said Sandy Lobenstein, vice president of connected strategy for Toyota Motor North America.

"Yes, there's risk," Lobenstein conceded.

It's not entirely unusual for Toyota to march to the beat of a different drummer, as it has done with hybrids and hydrogen fuel cells. But some analysts say Toyota may be marching in the opposite direction of consumers by turning its back on CarPlay and Android Auto, which transmit apps and imagery from a driver's smartphone onto a vehicle's touchscreen.

High stakes

The stakes are high for Toyota, which has long enjoyed a sterling reputation for quality and fierce loyalty among its customers but risks losing favor if its infotainment offerings can't keep up with what consumers expect. Fussy infotainment units have dragged down quality scores for some auto brands, and CarPlay and Android Auto are emerging as popular solutions for bringing the smartphone's up-to-date entertainment, messaging and navigation apps more seamlessly into the car.

"Toyota is definitely the odd man out," said Roger Lanctot, an associate director at Strategy Analytics, a technology consulting and market research firm.

Lanctot said he respects Toyota for trying to develop a platform that integrates its own hardware and software with third-party apps, but he doesn't think it's going to be able to hold off Apple and Google for long.

"The problem is that the auto industry is ruled in many ways by marketing and demographics, so it's going to be difficult for Toyota to stand their ground on this," he said. For example, Lanctot's son recently bought a Chevrolet Cruze in part because of its Android Auto integration.

Stephen Baker, a vice president and analyst at the market research firm NPD Group, said keeping up with the pace of smartphone technology requires much greater scale than even Toyota has. "While I suspect that Toyota will be able to hang on for a while, sooner than later they will face challenges in getting developers to build for their platform and fall behind in the smart-car race."

Over 200 car models from nearly every major brand offer CarPlay and Android Auto, according to Apple and Google. Mazda is another holdout along with Toyota.

For years, carmakers were reluctant to cede infotainment real estate in their vehicles to the two tech giants, for fear that it would dilute their brand identity and limit potential revenue from such things as in-car purchases and data gathering.

Toyota's Lobenstein said those considerations are still valid today.

"We spend billions of dollars developing brand identities, and those brand identities are pervasive in the exterior designs of our vehicles, on the interior designs of our vehicles," he said in an interview.

"The center stack, where the radio is, you can see that from the two front seats and the three back seats and sometimes if you're in an SUV, from the third row," Lobenstein added. "That's prime real estate for OEMs to communicate their brand image."

Privacy concern

Another concern is data privacy and security, he said. Toyota can control that through a proprietary system and app suite "where we control the environment, we control the pipelines, we develop the applications."

Entune 3.0 uses an open-source platform called Smart Device Link for third-party applications such as Pandora radio, Slacker, Facebook and Yelp. SDL was introduced by Ford and opened up to other automakers to develop alternatives to the CarPlay/Android standards. But the SDL alliance has attracted few other partners, and Ford has since decided to make its Sync 3 infotainment compatible with CarPlay and Android Auto for all 2017 model vehicles.

Colin Bird, a senior auto tech analyst at IHS Markit, said he doesn't think Toyota's approach is a deal breaker yet, given its reputation for quality and reliability. "I think those are things that matter more" among auto buyers, he said.

And he thinks the SDL platform has potential to be better integrated with a vehicle's existing controls and offer a greater range of "car-centric" applications, such as multiple navigation choices rather than just one with Apple and Google.

At the end of the day, he said, consumer acceptance will depend on how the software and the hardware come together.

"What really matters also is how carmakers are designing these infotainment systems," Bird said. "If people just get totally fed up -- they think the voice recognition doesn't work well and all this stuff is bad -- they're probably just going to move into the Apple or the Android environment."

That, he said, could be as simple as doing what a lot of car owners already do: use a third-party cradle to attach their smartphone to the dash.
 
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#5 ·
Like a steering wheel and air conditioning? I don't think you get it...but perhaps they should offer tape players again. These are features that BUYERS want. Toyota has their reasons fine. But if you don't offer what certain buyers want, they will go elsewhere. Like he said, there are increasing amount of buyers that will cross off Toyota for not offering it, while Honda and many others do or have acquiesced (Mazda will soon, and Subaru has started to do so).

If Scions had Apple Carplay perhaps the brand would be around still.
 
#4 ·
In part your right!

Not that everyone needs to be "Wired" to their car. The fact that Apple's CarPlay will limits the amount of time it takes to access Music, Phone calls or maps - Toyota does a very poor job providing this access. For Example. If you think about it, If you plan your trip ahead of time on your home computer, iPad or iPhone when you get into the car its all set to go, all by voice command, turn by turn. This will keep your eyes on the road. If you have ever tried to use Toyota's Map and nav system you will understand. I can only speak for Apple CarPlay I have it in my Truck.

That said it appears that some people have a hard time with the basic controls of a car. Like turning on there headlights when it gets dark or turning on their turn signal with they make a turn. People like that need to say away from all types of electronics. It's a very good thing Toyota is brings more safety features on line that will help keep people in their lane and stop them before they run into the person ahead.

So in part your right, keeping it simple will make things better! But not to worry in 5 years or less self-serving cars will be the norm and in 10 years Driving a manual Controlled car will be outlawed. :nerd:
 
#7 ·
Not that everyone needs to be "Wired" to their car. The fact that Apple's CarPlay will limits the amount of time it takes to access Music, Phone calls or maps - Toyota does a very poor job providing this access. For Example. If you think about it, If you plan your trip ahead of time on your home computer, iPad or iPhone when you get into the car its all set to go, all by voice command, turn by turn. This will keep your eyes on the road. If you have ever tried to use Toyota's Map and nav system you will understand. I can only speak for Apple CarPlay I have it in my Truck.

That said it appears that some people have a hard time with the basic controls of a car. Like turning on there headlights when it gets dark or turning on their turn signal with they make a turn. People like that need to say away from all types of electronics. It's a very good thing Toyota is brings more safety features on line that will help keep people in their lane and stop them before they run into the person ahead.

So in part your right, keeping it simple will make things better! But not to worry in 5 years or less self-serving cars will be the norm and in 10 years Driving a manual Controlled car will be outlawed. :nerd:
You're right, self driving cars are on the horizon, and right again about preplanning a trip/errand. Toyota is being "smart" about this feature for now.
 
#6 ·
Most of the top 10 auto manufactures will have Self-Driving cars in 10 years or less. Tesla has it now. Tesla's model 3 they have removed the instrument cluster screen from behind the steering wheel. They now only offer a landscape mode tablet in the center of the dash. The reason for this move was explained, why do you need instrumentation when basically the car is now just chauffeuring you were one place to another. So I guess the only destruction we will have we will be selecting what movie to watch?

Of coarse if North Korea take south South Korea in the next few months we will have a lot more to worry about !
 
#9 ·
Making your life easer not harder

Example using CarPlay

For people that use Apple products life can be less stressful if you use the tools that they offer. My contact list is available on all devices, Mac, iPad and iPhone. The calendar will keep track of all my appointments. The contact address and phone is ready available to the calendar App. Integration is the key. Lets say that I have meeting downtown at 4PM. The calendar app will let me know when its time to go and watch the traffic and adjusting my map program. If I am running late I can make a call to the client. All of this is done with very little intervention. There is very little distraction on the part of carPlay. The Address, contact person, phone number, Turn by Turn navigation is all done for you.

If I get into a completely different car that also has CarPlay, CarPlay will pull up all the required information just by looking at my iPhone, pulling the calendar and appointments info from iCloud.

If I get into my Rav4 I have to use Siri-Eyes thats part of the 2016 models for the turn by Turn Map info, but my contact list and music is available to me. It works fine for most things but not having the Apple App icons on display to use can be a pain.

I'm sure Android user can using google apps and maps to perform the same function.

Toyota does not understand how integrated Apple and its users count on this connectivity, if other car manufactures have figured this out why can't Toyota?

I like by new RAV4 and my wife love it! For me car without CarPlay is very frustrating so my next car will have CarPlay. Will it be a Toyota,l I guess its up to them.
 
#12 ·
Example using CarPlay

For people that use Apple products life can be less stressful if you use the tools that they offer. My contact list is available on all devices, Mac, iPad and iPhone. The calendar will keep track of all my appointments. The contact address and phone is ready available to the calendar App. Integration is the key. Lets say that I have meeting downtown at 4PM. The calendar app will let me know when its time to go and watch the traffic and adjusting my map program. If I am running late I can make a call to the client. All of this is done with very little intervention. There is very little distraction on the part of carPlay. The Address, contact person, phone number, Turn by Turn navigation is all done for you.

If I get into a completely different car that also has CarPlay, CarPlay will pull up all the required information just by looking at my iPhone, pulling the calendar and appointments info from iCloud.

If I get into my Rav4 I have to use Siri-Eyes thats part of the 2016 models for the turn by Turn Map info, but my contact list and music is available to me. It works fine for most things but not having the Apple App icons on display to use can be a pain.

I'm sure Android user can using google apps and maps to perform the same function.

Toyota does not understand how integrated Apple and its users count on this connectivity, if other car manufactures have figured this out why can't Toyota?

I like by new RAV4 and my wife love it! For me car without CarPlay is very frustrating so my next car will have CarPlay. Will it be a Toyota,l I guess its up to them.


What security is there that any information that could/would be stored could not be accessed by mechanics, valet etc? What happens if the battery is disconnected for any amount of time?
 
#10 ·
From my standpoint, it would be nice to have the Android Auto option.

For now, I am using Blue Tooth, to get Pandora and my phone calls thru the Toyota system, and Toyota does a reasonable job of that.

I use Waze as a navigation app, and I am mounting my phone to the dash for that... with audio through bluetooth... so, its good enough.

The update cycle for Android is very rapid, and Toyota probably does not want to become hostage to that...along with the expense involved to keep older models current.

I expect this will cost them some sales, and sooner or later they will come around.
 
#19 ·
Recently purchased a new Avalon for my wife - The "Scout GPS" is less than romper room compared to Android Auto I used in a Chevy rental car. (Her cell will not even stay synced/paired to the vehicle!) I really like Toyota but my next vehicle will not be if this is what they offer when it is time to replace my vehicle. To me, the "Entune" setup is so poor that it takes away much from an otherwise very nice car.
 
#20 ·
Go to WalMart. Buy a stand alone GPS. Take it with you when you rent a car. (The rental company will let you use one for $10 more than WalMart will charge you.) There is no Data Plan cost when using it. When it breaks, throw it out the window and buy another one.
When the indash GPS breaks, pay a dealer $1000 to replace a $50 (cost) HU. AND, every time you trade cars, you get to lay out another $1000 to $1500 for a new indash. PT Barnum was right.

I know, too easy, too simple and not "cool". You can't date the popular girls if you have a GPS unit cord hanging off the dash, They only date guys with indash GPS.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Most people have smart phones, that have a Navigation app (Apple or Google Maps), so many of these standalones are becoming obsolete. That's why Apple Carplay and Android Auto have been in demand by many drivers because the software makes them easily integrate into the car ICE, as the technology is not tied to the car. Everything gets updated, even Toyota's Entune.

As everyone has said, Toyota is playing politics not wanting to jump aboard with the other manufacturers...many owners already said the Scout app sucks. Toyota's going alone so we'll see what happens
 
#22 ·
Actually, I was looking into a phone mirror upgrade for Entune but the only app needed while driving was CHP traffic.

However, Entune's traffic app has been working flawlessly recently.

She told me of stopped traffic 6 miles ahead and I blew off the diversion offerd and was stuck for an hour?
 
#23 · (Edited)
#26 ·
That's truth. If only standalone GPS units were slicker and didn't make you seem so dad. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I doubt guys and girls in their early 20s want to seem like dads and moms.

Call me an Android fanboy if you must, but my Pixel XL has been bulletproof compared to the rest of the fam, who sport iPhones. Also my Google Maps works better than whatever Apple navigation crap they have on there
 
#35 ·
Who the hell cares about aa or acp. Stupid thing to put in a car when I could just talk fine over bluetooth or listen to music or even use google maps which my iphone 7 plus is good for. I even used google maps in iphone 5s and it was fine. I use an iphone 5s for my work and we use google maps for our navigation. Im 23 and I don't care about stupid things like that.
 
#36 · (Edited)
How is it stupid to not put something that customers want and will buy your product if you have it? Who's the fool now?

A lot of people your age aka millennials want the technology in their car, being ignorant about the facts isn't an excuse even if you don't care to use it yourself. I'm not even that young anymore and I see the benefit of using it for maps especially when you don't have to stare into your phone, and I actually tried this myself (Have you even?). Entune is the same wannabe technology that Toyota is forcing into its cars now.

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/10/16/carplay-must-have-new-car-buyers/
https://www.mobilemarketer.com/news...ndroid-auto-apple-carplay-over-embedd/507424/

If a new car came without a push-button start, would you even consider it or cross it off because you can't get what you want?
 
#43 ·
If I didn't want an overland vehicle, I would have gone with another manufacturer due to the lack of Android Auto.

But Toyota makes the two most reliable overland vehicles so I'm going with a Tacoma.

However, I'm spending $750 to change the radio head unit to get Android Auto and maintain all functionality with Maestro iDatalink because it's worth it to me. I want google maps for navigation.
 
#46 ·

http://appleinsider.com/articles/18...plans-to-launch-first-cars-with-apple-carplay
Toyota’s new 2019 Avalon was just announced at the 2018 North American International Auto Show, and the new model includes a long-awaited and welcome addition: Apple’s CarPlay platform, a first for a Toyota car, according to AppleInsider.

Toyota has famously abstained from adopting either CarPlay or Android Auto in its cars. Back in 2015, John Hanson, the national manager of Toyota’s advanced technology communications, commented to The New York Times that the company “prefer[red] to use our in-house proprietary platforms for those kinds of functions.” Even when Toyota switched to another company’s system in 2016, it was to adopt Ford’s SmartDeviceLink app platform, not Apple or Google’s software. Last year at NAIM 2017, Toyota and Ford founded the SmartDeviceLink Consortium, with a focus on extending iOS and Android apps to car dashboards without having to cede control to Apple or Google.

The company confirmed in a comment to MacRumors that CarPlay will show up in additional 2019 cars from Toyota and Lexus that run the company’s Entune 3.0 (for Toyota) and Enform 2.0 (for Lexus) infotainment platforms as well. It has yet to clarify whether or not 2018 models already running those platforms will get support through a software update.

On the 2019 Avalon, users will be able to interact with CarPlay through the 9-inch capacitive touchscreen. (Despite featuring a standard Qi wireless charger, there’s sadly no support for wireless CarPlay, so you’ll still have to plug in a cable to take advantage of the feature.) The new model also features Toyota’s first integration of smartwatch and Amazon Alexa compatibility through the Toyota Remote Connect, allowing owners to do things like lock or unlock their doors and start their car through Alexa or a smartwatch.

Oddly, Toyota seems to only be announcing support specifically for CarPlay; the company is seemingly not adding Android Auto integration at this time.
 
#47 ·
Couple takes:
https://jalopnik.com/toyota-partially-gives-up-their-fight-against-what-peop-1822092650

-Great that the new Avalon will have Carplay, but honestly would it have been better had they introduced it in the new Camry that many people are actually buying? Avalon isn't one of Toyota's bigger sellers, and honestly given its older buyer demographic that may not care as much about smartphones, aren't likely to benefit or want it as much as the Camry buyer base.

-If I were Toyota, I would offer the system for download right now for all owners with the Entune 3.0 system, meaning a lot of Camry and Tacoma owners, and even RAV4 and Highlander owners. Besides Camry owners, I've heard a lot of Taco owners were vocal for their desire of ACP as well.
 
#48 ·
Sorry to bring up an older thread but it sucks that the new '19 Corolla Hatch and RAV4 will apparently have Apple Carplay but no Android Auto. These very appealing vehicles tick our boxes in almost every respect and although we're in the market and don't mind the wait this one omission may be a deal breaker for wife and I. Maybe there's still time for Toyota to add it?
 
#50 ·
Some of us enjoy driving an automobile, not being a little baby who needs toys to play with.
I would call driving enjoyment great in a Corolla (I own one).

Fine if you don't like technology...but don't forget, new Toyotas are fully of safety nannies. Not having new or current technologies can hurt a company financially, just saying.
Sorry to bring up an older thread but it sucks that the new '19 Corolla Hatch and RAV4 will apparently have Apple Carplay but no Android Auto. These very appealing vehicles tick our boxes in almost every respect and although we're in the market and don't mind the wait this one omission may be a deal breaker for wife and I. Maybe there's still time for Toyota to add it?
That's between Toyota and Google...I suppose they feel that Google mines too much data. Too bad because the Google Maps is offered only on AA.
 
#53 ·
Gris is correct "Men in black" The days of just driving to enjoy the ride are over unless your just driving someplace that the population is less the 1000. Not to sure Gris but whats an "Apple head"? Last point due to the very fact that there are a lot more cars on the road today then ever before. People are driving faster and taking less time to drive carefully. The safety tech the Toyota has installed in all of there cars over the last few years has saved lives. The more tech we install that will keep our eyes on the road the better off we are. Only when cars are driving for us will we able to lay back and enjoy the ride. If this situation is not your cup of tea, then may be its best for your to move to a place were there are few cars and people, but for the rest of population we have to adapt to what is going on in our heavy populated cities with our crazy traffic problems. Lets just say its best to be a Jetson then a Flintstone!
 
#55 ·
OK, thats what I though, with a handle of "MacNewton" you must know that I am a so called "Apple head" so what do you call a person that uses all computer platforms? Tech head LOL

You name it, I have it. You see I have worked the last 40+ years in the computer field and in my retirement I design and develop different devices for my cars. I have a 2016 RAV4 limited (in Canada) and the centre console was already 4 years behind everyone else when I got it! I'm all for that old adage "if it works leave it alone, if not replace it with something better. Toyota needs to get over whatever thats holding them back. Most of the power players are years ahead of them. Not to say they don't make good cars, but the centre console is a joke. Give it a few more years and I will replace it with something better.

Lately I'm working on developing a replacement centre console for 1997 2500 GMC Suburban.

Best
MacNewton
 
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