Motor Trend: Best mid-size sedan comparison

[silver04rollas]

Toyota Camry finished in 5th place out of 6th (only ahead of Malibu).

The usual suspects literally every test point towards of present day Toyotas haunt (cheap plastics, materials, rattles and squeaks etc.). Wonder when will Toyota return to the early-2000s glory days and form and stop cutting corners??

5TH PLACE: Toyota Camry XLE

Best-seller, but far from the best

Will Toyota care that its latest Camry finished fifth? Not likely. Over three decades Toyota's midsize sedan has won a huge, faithful, and mostly well-deserved following. The Camry has become the easy, go-to choice for buyers in search of a roomy, efficient, comfortable, reliable four-door that does it all. It's not surprising that the latest, ninth-generation U.S. version is, as we go to press, America's best-selling automobile. The competition has crept up, though. And the Camry itself is -- dare we say it? -- showing signs of weakness. True, the basics are still there: a genuinely huge and inviting rear seat, impressive real-world fuel efficiency (we observed 26.1 mpg), a full complement of conveniences, and aggressive pricing ($25,570 base for the topline XLE). So why aren't we in love? Ask Febbo: "This car is just so cynical. Horribly executed, and not a drop of passion anywhere. Interior looks like it was designed by the accounting department. Monochrome display for the HVAC system could have been developed in the '70s. The knobs are cheap, the buttons are cheap, everything is built to the lowest price." Febbo isn't alone. Writes Seabaugh: "Did Toyota even try? Seems like they just phoned it in. Cabin has way too many hard plastics, a shoddy infotainment system, a dash so shiny it reflects into the windshield in direct sunlight. This is the McDonald's of cars: billions and billions served. But that doesn't mean it's good." The Camry rides softly but not particularly well. "Every single bump in the road sends vibrations through the whole car," writes Evans. "There's no payoff in handling, either. Body rolls all over; steering is slow and lifeless." The Camry also emitted a strange -- but very distinct -- structural thud over seemingly minor road imperfections, a very un-Toyota-like behavior. The 2.5-liter four and six-speed automatic deliver generally smooth power, though everyone noted the engine's propensity to whine. And the shifter is merely adequate. "You can tell lessening shift shock was a priority for the transmission," writes Kong. "It's quite deliberate in action" (i.e., it's slow). Back to that underwhelming interior. Yes, the abundant room is there, but so are squeaks, rattles, and noises we've never before heard in Camrys. Our test car's dome light was falling out. And what's with the humongous circular toggles on either side of the giant steering wheel? "I feel like I should be firing missiles," writes Evans. Febbo was clearly the most irked by the Camry, so let's give him the final say: "I'm confident this is the worst car I've driven in months. The Malibu might come up shorter in some respects, but at least Chevy put forth an effort. The Camry is offensive partly because it's so far under Toyota's potential."

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz287GiOqLU

[Xenos]

The Passat?


Oh yea, it's awesome, whenever it's not in the shop because something else has broken on it. And the interior is straight out of narcoleptic magazine.

[sweeneyp]

Hmm, anyone else notice the article date?

Comparison:
2012-2013 Midsize Sedan Comparison: Battle of the Best-Sellers
Six Power Players Flex Their Cupholders and Crankshafts in Four-Door Showdown
By Arthur St. Antoine | Photos By Evan Klein | December, 2012

Has motortrend created a time machine?

It seems motor-trend is fixated on driving dynamics. These are midsize family sedans. A vast majority of those buyers will be interested in reliability over driving dynamics...to leave that out when comparing the cars is huge. I highly doubt the VW will last very long (after seeing one of their POS jetta's literally fall apart/melt), and if it does, its because the owner is dumping buckets of cash into it. Also where are the Kia Optima, Hyundai Sonata, Dodge Charger, and Mazda6 (it is a bit old now) ???

[Jegan_V]

Originally Posted by sweeneyp

It seems motor-trend is fixated on driving dynamics. These are midsize family sedans. A vast majority of those buyers will be interested in reliability over driving dynamics...to leave that out when comparing the cars is huge. I highly doubt the VW will last very long (after seeing one of their POS jetta's literally fall apart/melt), and if it does, its because the owner is dumping buckets of cash into it.

The thing is, I like a car with good driving dynamics and the Passat...lacks that. They seem to love the interior, but its terrible especially compared to the likes of the previous Passat. I'd actually put the Passat...last, I even liked the Malibu better which is good but I don't think its going to be enough. They seem to think Chevrolet tried, I'm not so sure because they seem to think a Cruze template is fine and its not a terrible assumption but the Cruze isn't perfect and the Malibu feels like a big Cruze.

I don't agree with their Camry review either. I only drive the LE and I actually like it. Are its driving dynamics brilliant, no but its competent which is more than I can say for the Corolla. This seems to be an article based on bashing it even on this car's good points. The ride on the Camry is probably the best in class, the Passat in contrast is terrible. Yes I don't like the chunky knobs, fine but the Camry has far less of the hard plastics of the previous version which didn't even try to look nicer.

Originally Posted by sweeneyp

Also where are the Kia Optima, Hyundai Sonata, Dodge Charger, and Mazda6 (it is a bit old now) ???

The Sonata and Optima are technically not new. That said they're very competent cars. The Dodge Charger doesn't fit in this category, that would be the Dodge Avenger which isn't new and it blows, easy last place if its not last place they're being paid. The Mazda6, I was expecting this one to drive well but I'm afraid this is a soft car. Its has worse steering than most of the midsize segment, attempting to be a 6th gen Camry but not succeeding. This is a rare miss for Mazda, I don't like driving the current 6 despite loving the old 6, I'd rather take the Mazda5 as far as driving enjoyment and that's a van.

[bee2]

Originally Posted by Xenos

The Passat?


Oh yea, it's awesome, whenever it's not in the shop because something else has broken on it. And the interior is straight out of narcoleptic magazine.

My thoughts exactly. Passat?

[zythr]

Originally Posted by bee2

My thoughts exactly. Passat?

Maybe they don't want to be seen favoring one automaker over another.

[ECHOKnight2000]

In other news the Camry still tops the sales charts. Only enthusiasts read MT and maybe occasional casual car observer. But people use CR as the auto Bible but even mighty CR can't totally effect Toyota or Honda sales, certainly can have some effect cause most of the public don't care about the industry, cars, sales etc.

Yeah the Passat is a joke. Its like 7 years too late but even then its not only ugly but just...ugh! Its forgettable that even a white washing machine stands out more. And with the competition its already lost in it like it was before.

[stodge]

If they want driving dynamics they should compare against the Kizashi. Sure it needs more usable power with the CVT but most reviewers agree it's the best handling midsize out there. I drove the Passat and I wasn't impressed. The driving position was awkward and the power was average. Oh and the seats felt like the benches you sit on at a football game.


Sent from my iPad using AG Free

[EKam]

To anyone that's not living under a rock, Camry has sucked progressively generation after generation since the Gen3.

They have contrast stitching on plastic dash. Never would I dreamt the great Camry would have things like this.

[PhatRoyale]

Originally Posted by EKam

To anyone that's not living under a rock, Camry has sucked progressively generation after generation since the Gen3.

They have contrast stitching on plastic dash. Never would I dreamt the great Camry would have things like this.

Same case goes for the Corolla. All downhill after the Gen7. Built during the same era as the Gen3 Camry.

I don't even think Lexus uses the same soft touch plastics from those 90s cars in their cars today.

[silver04rollas]

It definitely did not peak at Gen 7. Toyota did keep improving well into the 2000s.

I once did a picture comparo of various generations side by side and trim level to trim level comparison (CE to CE, LE to LE) side by side seemed to show that the finish, fit, materials etc. kept improving till somewhere in the mid-2000s. Then, it went downhill very fast after that.

The 4 mm tolerances were started in early-2000s. My almost 9 year old XRS does not have a single rattle (inspite of being on race springs and Koni yellow stiffer shocks).


Here is a sample for comparison:

1995 Corolla DX:



2003 Corolla Base model CE:





And then I believe Toyota got most lavish ever with the 9th gen XRS (those LED optitron electroluminiscent gauges were lifted out of Lexus);

Originally Posted by PhatRoyale

Same case goes for the Corolla. All downhill after the Gen7. Built during the same era as the Gen3 Camry.

I don't even think Lexus uses the same soft touch plastics from those 90s cars in their cars today.

[Throck]

I currently own a toyota and a honda and I've owned two VWs in the past. I would not remotely consider another VW as mine were prone to an abundance of problems - especially electrical. I read the report and I agree with it. Toyota has been living on its reputation. Even Hyundai (and KIA) have had direct inject for several years now! Most mid-size sedans are offereing dirct inject or a CVT or both. Toyota is behind on the industry here by several years. But I think the big problem toyota has is its interiors. They are far below industry standards - i.e. cheap, hard, shiny plastic that is prone to squeeks or rattles. I'm retired and I spent the past few days doodling around on car lots. I didn't drive any of them, but in looking at them it's pretty obvious (to me) that the cheapest interiors on the market are in toyotas. Just ONE opinion.

-- I should note that I did not look at anything GM. One other thing that I found peculiar - the old saying "the camel is a horse designed by a committe" - well, Honda used that same concept in designing its crossover. Although interior is far nicer than the venza, I have no idea what they were thinking when they designed that beast.

[Jegan_V]

Originally Posted by Throck

I currently own a toyota and a honda and I've owned two VWs in the past. I would not remotely consider another VW as mine were prone to an abundance of problems - especially electrical. I read the report and I agree with it. Toyota has been living on its reputation. Even Hyundai (and KIA) have had direct inject for several years now! Most mid-size sedans are offereing dirct inject or a CVT or both. Toyota is behind on the industry here by several years. But I think the big problem toyota has is its interiors. They are far below industry standards - i.e. cheap, hard, shiny plastic that is prone to squeeks or rattles. I'm retired and I spent the past few days doodling around on car lots. I didn't drive any of them, but in looking at them it's pretty obvious (to me) that the cheapest interiors on the market are in toyotas. Just ONE opinion.

-- I should note that I did not look at anything GM. One other thing that I found peculiar - the old saying "the camel is a horse designed by a committe" - well, Honda used that same concept in designing its crossover. Although interior is far nicer than the venza, I have no idea what they were thinking when they designed that beast.

Its nothing new that Toyota just doesn't adopt new technology very quickly. Fuel injection, DOHC, multi-valve heads are just a few examples where Toyota was really cautious and slow to implement. However if Toyota is satisfied they're very quick to implement these technologies in everything. Toyota's D4-S is both DI and MPI, a cautious move since early GDI engines are now suffering from carbon build up. I actually commend them for being able to make do without a full DI lineup and still remain competitive on power and fuel efficiency.

The interiors, yes they're a disappointment compared to Toyotas of old. The modern era of cost cutting and profit margins has ensured that we'll probably never see such high quality materials in mainstream cars ever again.

[71Corolla]

I don't understand why soft touch plastics are so elusive these days. Is such a thing really that difficult to manufacture?

[silver04rollas]

Originally Posted by 71Corolla

I don't understand why soft touch plastics are so elusive these days. Is such a thing really that difficult to manufacture?

Manufacturers run by bean counters are trying to save a penny here and there. Since cheap, hard plastics are much cheaper to produce and then you multiply it by the number of cars being manufactured and you save a lot of money thus increasing profits.

Atleast, it is a great to see Honda inspite of all of their lackluster line-up (and screwing up the Civic badly), has really hit a home run with this new Accord and it still has seems to have the same high quality materials, fit and finish.