[Kooter]

Leaky - I will not use Kreen or Marvel Mystery Oil in any of my car's engines because to the best of my knowledge Toyota (Lexus, BMW & M-B) does not approve of using such additives. If I am wrong about that and Toyota (or any other car maker) is now approving such oil additives, please let me know.

 

[leakyseals]

Several of the Lexus engines really do have a mechanical failure. Example..

EG017-07 - Immediately following a cold soak startup, some 2006 – 2007 model year IS 250 vehicles may exhibit a brief rattle/knock noise from the engine compartment for approximately one second.

2006 – 2007 model year IS 250 vehicles equipped with the 4GR-FSE engine and produced BEFORE the Production Change Effective VINs shown below.

"R & R Bank 1 & Bank 2 Intake Camshaft Gear Assembly"

Toyota and Lexus use the same VVT-i design, both make that same noise. But the programming and parts used are unique to each engine design. So it could be a deposit problem on an 04 2AZ-FE, a defective gear on a 06 IS250 and 2011 Toyota v6, and so on.

 

[Kooter]

Several of the Lexus engines really do have a mechanical failure. Example..

EG017-07 - Immediately following a cold soak startup, some 2006 – 2007 model year IS 250 vehicles may exhibit a brief rattle/knock noise from the engine compartment for approximately one second.

2006 – 2007 model year IS 250 vehicles equipped with the 4GR-FSE engine and produced BEFORE the Production Change Effective VINs shown below.

"R & R Bank 1 & Bank 2 Intake Camshaft Gear Assembly"

Toyota and Lexus use the same VVT-i design, both make that same noise. But the programming and parts used are unique to each engine design. So it could be a deposit problem on an 04 2AZ-FE, a defective gear on a 06 IS250 and 2011 Toyota v6, and so on.

2007-2011 Lexus GS 350
2006-2011 Lexus IS 350
2010-2011 Lexus IS 350c

Toyota is recalling a total of 101,584 Lexus vehicles equipped with a 3.5-liter V-6 engine with a 2GR-FSE designation. For these engines, the bolts used to secure the Variable Valve Timing system gear assembly's housing and sprocket could loosen due to abnormal impact coming from within the housing immediately following a cold engine start-up. If the bolts loosen enough to allow the housing and sprocket to separate from the engine while the car is being driven, the engine will stop running.

The recall impacts 2007-2011 Lexus GS 350 vehicles built from June 19, 2006, to July 12, 2011; 2006-2011 Lexus IS 350 vehicles built from May 25, 2005, to July 13, 2011; and 2010-2011 Lexus IS 350c vehicles built from November 25, 2009 to July 19, 2011.

To resolve the problem, these vehicles will receive a new Variable Valve Timing unit at no cost to the owner. Lexus has not provided a timetable for the component replacement, but owners with questions can contact Toyota by calling 1-800-331-4331 and referencing NHTSA recall campaign ID number 13V395.

Toyota Recall 13V395

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM443883/RCDNN-13V395-1839.pdf

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM444225/RCMN-13V395-4590.pdf

 

[leakyseals]

Leaky - I will not use Kreen or Marvel Mystery Oil in any of my car's engines because to the best of my knowledge Toyota (Lexus, BMW & M-B) does not approve of using such additives. If I am wrong about that and Toyota (or any other car maker) is now approving such oil additives, please let me know.

I could write for a month why what your asking for is unrealistic. But keeping it short.. Toyota (or any auto manufacturer) can't possibly approve every additive on the market, that would consume all their time. Toyota (or any auto manufacturer) has a hard enough time admitting a problem, let alone additives that may possibly resolve them. Manuals are guidelines with perfect world recommendations. I'm not recommending anything I haven't tried myself more than once over the past 30 years. If you don't want to try a cleaner fix because you only trust the manual and stealerships, prefer to live with the noise, thats up to you. But I'm not!

 

[Kooter]

I could write for a month why what your asking for is unrealistic. But keeping it short.. Toyota (or any auto manufacturer) can't possibly approve every additive on the market, that would consume all their time. Toyota (or any auto manufacturer) has a hard enough time admitting a problem, let alone additives that may possibly resolve them. Manuals are guidelines with perfect world recommendations. I'm not recommending anything I haven't tried myself more than once over the past 30 years. If you don't want to try a cleaner fix because you only trust the manual and stealerships, prefer to live with the noise, thats up to you. But I'm not!

Have you ever heard of a Toyota/Lexus technician (or any automobile manufacturer's technician for that matter) ever use Kreen or Marvel Mystery Oil in a customer's vehicle regardless of age or mileage, or whether the vehicle was still under warranty or not?

 

[leakyseals]

Of course not. Mechanics get paid to turn wrenches and make money tearing your engine apart. They want your money. They wont say anything, let your engine grenade out of warranty, then tell you the only answer is expensive surgery.

Trust the anonymous guy on the internet trying to save you money, or the mechanic trying to take your money, up to you. :hi:

 

[leakyseals]

This conversation reminds me of the bad back I had 20 years ago playing sports.

Doctor:
"You need surgery, chiropractors are nothing more than voodoo"

Chiropractor:
"Try adjusting the spine before an expensive invasive surgery"

I went with the chiropractor. 20 years later I'm fine. Allergies are gone too!

Thats me, the cam gear chiropractor :rockon:

 

[Kooter]

Of course not. Mechanics get paid to turn wrenches and make money tearing your engine apart. They want your money. They wont say anything, let your engine grenade out of warranty, then tell you the only answer is expensive surgery.

Trust the anonymous guy on the internet trying to save you money, or the mechanic trying to take your money, up to you. :hi:

I certainly didn't think any automobile manufacturer's technicians would ever use or recommend using Kreen or Marvel Mystery Oil to their customers. Maybe a backyard grease-monkey working on an old beat-up car that hasn't had an oil change in the last decade. :lol:

 

[Kooter]

Thats me, the cam gear chiropractor :rockon:

:rofl2:

 

[leakyseals]

Would assume your clean using M1 for an extended period, so I would go straight for mos2, see what that does. Your rings came plasma coated with moly from the factory for better break-in. Moly has been in your oil in large quantities till recently. So adding moly is no secret potion. Any change will tell you theres hope.

Can be found locally.

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Liqui-Moly-2009-Anti-Friction-Treatment/dp/B003U4O414[/ame]


I have also tried this one from Lubegard. Different kind of Moly. A bio solution, like all lubegard products are. You may like this - the company actually does have some approvals. Not for this product, but its transmission product called Lubegard Red.

http://www.lubegard.com/C-306/LUBEGARD+BIO-TECH+Engine+Oil+Protectant

both of these companies are reputable with longstanding reputations.

 

[rena]

Okay…aside from dumping stuff in that some members approve of and some do not..:disappoin
If I choose to try to fix this dilemma, How long should i expect a mechanic to replace this piece so I don't get ripped off?

 

[leakyseals]

One more.. If I decided to run a conventional oil again some day it would be PYB. Lots of moly, high flashpoint, good TBN, cleaning level are high. This is the perfect 5k dino for our engines. Who knows, maybe this might work all by itself..

 

[IH8SPM]

Just joining the conversation and wanted to add that Honda had a similar problem on the 08-09 accords. It was traced back to defective VTEC Solenoid not engaging causing the oil not to rise on cold start. It was covered under warranty. Maybe there is something similar going in here. Just a thought.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App

 

[MD1032]

There are DTC's the ECU can set when it detects problems with the VVT system. My car has made this rattle sound since I bought it and nearly 100,000 miles later, it is identical. I am not convinced that it is a real problem because the engine performs flawlessly under load...it could be that normal wear simply causes this sound to appear. I have not found a definitive answer on the internet, only a lot of complaints on cars that otherwise run perfectly. Until I see a CEL illuminate...I'm not going to bother with my car, at least.

 

[Kooter]

For whatever it's worth, I just received a quote that I had requested from my local Toyota Service Advisor to replace the intake-side VVT on the left bank of my 2004 3.0L V6 engine. Also, an adder price to replace the other (right bank) valve cover gasket and to replace the six spark plugs...since the technician would already have the intake off and it would be convenient.

Replace VVT on intake-side cam of left bank - $750 plus tax
Adder to also replace right bank valve cover gasket and change six spark plugs - $405 plus tax

 

[leakyseals]

I started the cleanup in the 05 2AZ-FE with the startup rattle. Just an oil change with M1 HM 5w30 for now. The owner says the rattle is more random, less often, not as loud. So its better, but not entirely gone. What I expected. If it is a deposit problem it will take 2k, maybe an entire oil change to clear up if its going to.

As mentioned earlier, I wonder if the decrease of wear additives like Moly and ZZDP in API SN oils has anything to do with controller wear or rattles. The new ILSAC GF-5 & API SN standards lower the levels of Phosphorus and Zinc (ZZDP) to under 800ppm to extend catalyst life, less emissions. The reason I like M1 HM is in addition to its better cleaning abilities, M1 HM retains the higher levels of the wear additives zinc and phosphorus (ZZDP) that existed in prior API certifications.

Below is a wear additive chart for M1 oils. Note that M1 HM is API SL. Because M1 HM 5w30 has 1000+ppm of phosphorus/zinc, it cant make the API SN service rating of under 800ppm phosphorus/zinc (zzdp). M1 5w30 @800ppm, 0w30 AFE @650ppm, 0w20 AFE @650ppm all make the SN cert.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf

When people state that API SN oil is "better" or the "best", IMO no its the "latest". Tomorrow there may be an API SO or SP that puts zzdp back :lol: Also, TGMO 0w20 with its 216 VI has phos/zinc levels of 800+ and more moly. So depending on who you talk to TGMO 0w20 is barely SN. IMO thats a good thing.

 

[Kooter]

Leaky,

You continue to push and pump your 'ShamWow!' products that WILL NOT alter the sound or fix the VVT rattle noise that this thread is about. Nor will your 'ShamWow!' products fix the VVT rattle in the Lexus engines as noted in the Toyota Recall (see my original post).

My Toyota technician and my Lexus technician have both confirmed that there is no engine oil or engine cleaner, oil additive or magical pixie dust that will help this problem. You can pump all those 'ShamWow!' products till the cows come home, but they ain't gonna help the VVT rattle noise problem that this thread is about. Maybe your products will help some other problem - I don't know and don't really care...

 

[hardtopte72]

Leaky,

You continue to push and pump your 'ShamWow!' products that WILL NOT alter the sound or fix the VVT rattle noise that this thread is about. Nor will your 'ShamWow!' products fix the VVT rattle in the Lexus engines as noted in the Toyota Recall (see my original post).

My Toyota technician and my Lexus technician have both confirmed that there is no engine oil or engine cleaner, oil additive or magical pixie dust that will help this problem. You can pump all those 'ShamWow!' products till the cows come home, but they ain't gonna help the VVT rattle noise problem that this thread is about. Maybe your products will help some other problem - I don't know and don't really care...

You basically have 4 choices.

1. Sell the car and forget about the noise.
2. Pay the cost to have the VVT-I gear replaced (which may not be the problem exactly).
3. Leave the noise as is and hope it doesn't get worse.
4. Attempt the solutions leaky has offered you.

If I understand correctly you have a Bank 1 issue (under the plenum). I also understand that you haven't actually removed and inspected the OCV or gear itself to check on the failure. From what I understand your theory comes from other reports and the word of experienced technicians combined with your maintenance history.

If I was in your shoes I would at least attempt leakyseals recommendations. It is a lot cheaper than the alternative and based on his written experience has worked 3-4 times so far. I have seen some experienced Master Diagnostic Technicians who have been wrong on a problem. I have also been amazed at the wealth of knowledge the internet and specifically TN has available. Did you know you could fix a Gen 6 strut knock with 46 cents worth of felt? I sure didn't and 10K miles later it is working just fine. I would wager heavily that every technician who heard the noisy would have recommended strut mounts (like I was close to buying).

 

[ccl088]

Hardtopte72- Please do tell about the felt! This thread DOES need a different direction anyways..

 

[FrankieB]

Hello all,

Just to add to this thread. I have this rattle and went to Toyota and they performed the TSB repairs. Intake and Exhaust CAM GEARS replaced also the chain.

The rattle is still there, so I think the pin that everyone mentions is the issue and they have not taken care of the problem.

So there is a VVti Controller that should be replaced when this TSB is done to ensure the 1 second rattle is gone?

I have a 2011 Camry SE with 43K miles on it. On some days its a second that the rattle lasts and some days its a 2 second rattle, then its quiet.

Thanks