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Old 10-29-2007, 11:10 PM   #1 (permalink)
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3VZE Intemittent problem, hard to start

Hi! My 1989 xtra-cab 4x4 pickup with a 3VZE engine just reached 180k miles and a problem appeared a few months ago. The engine is sometimes hard to start. It will start after a few tries but will run bad for one or two minutes and then runs great. It seems like it is running on 2 or 3 cylinder at a near stall rpm and make a lot of smoke for these few minutes. This problem seems to occur mostly if the truck has been parked for a few days. It usually runs great when it is hot except for last week when it stalled on the road. It was like if I was out of fuel. 15 minutes later, It started poorly for about 30 seconds and stalled. I called a towing and 12 hours later, it started perfectly. The check engine lamp sometimes flashes when this happen so I tested it and it says code #11. It's about the main relay, Ig switch or ECU but I'm not sure the problem is there. Maybe this code just occurs because of the erratic idling and that not enough current is produced by the generator at such a low rpm. Am I wrong? I've tried to change the spark plug's wires, rotor, distributor and the fuel filter. I'm thinking about a fuel pressure leak of clogged fuel lines or injector. Does anybody have ever experienced this problem before or have better ideas of what the problem could be? Any help would be grreattlly!! appreciated. Thanks everybody and sorry for this so long question!
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Old 10-30-2007, 11:05 AM   #2 (permalink)
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"It seems like it is running on 2 or 3 cylinder at a near stall rpm and make a lot of smoke for these few minutes."

It sounds like your spark plugs are fouling. How much oil are you consuming?

I've always just bought the cheapest replacement battery I could get but they would never last their rated amount of months. This last time around I decided to buy a AutoZone Duralast Gold. Now the starter acts like it has a turbo - starting is super quick.

Beyond a new battery there is another product that might help you called Cermax. It's a liquid ceramic oil additive. Even the cold weather now doesn't seem to effect the ability of the engine to start quickly. http://www.positivespin.us/Cermax.htm
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Old 11-01-2007, 06:37 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Look at my thread http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2027874#post2027874

You can follow along with the same troublshooting lessons that I have been learning lately.
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Old 11-01-2007, 11:39 PM   #4 (permalink)
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What does the smoke smell like? If its burning antifreeze, you'll smell it. Check your oil to see if it is 'milky', indicating water/coolant has contaminated it. A bad headgasket would cause poor running and smoky exhaust. this would explain the low idle and smoke but it wont explain why the truck started perfectly 12 hours after it stalled when you were driving. Either way i would check the smell of the exhaust and the oil color to rule out a bad headgasket. The 3vze's did have H.G. problems so make sure yours had the recall done. That yota's still got some life left in her... mine just crossed 190k miles about 500 miles ago . post back and im sure someone'll get to you

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Old 11-02-2007, 06:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I've done some testing this week, I took a look at the spark plugs and I verified the compression of each cylinder. All the plugs were a good tan color exept maybe for the third cylinder who was more white than the others. I would guess this means that this cylinder is running on a slightly lean fuel/air mixture. All cylinders were readings between 140 and 155psi. It may be a little low but I think it's not that bad considering the age and mileage of the truck. The oil consumption is low on this engine. However, the oil has a dark color but I didn't change it since last november. I only do one oil change per year since I mostly use it for snow plowing and carrying my dirt bike (about 2000miles/year). The smoke it sometimes make when it is cold is a dark smoke and I'm not sure if it's caused by oil burning or a too rich mixture. I guess the head gasket should be okay if the
compression is ok. It started well the few times I tried it this week but i'm not dare to take it for a ride since I dont want to get stuck again. Now I'll be out for three days and I will see if it is still okay when I'll be back since it tends to make the trouble mostly when it hasn't run for a few days. Temperature and humidity doesn't seems to affect it. Thanks everybody and tell me what you think about it!!!
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Old 11-05-2007, 08:01 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I started it today after five days that it's been on a rest. It started fine so I was probably wrong when I said that the problem happen when it haven't run for a while. It should just be an intermittent problem. Last time I worked on it I cleaned the battery terminal and I wonder If it could be just related to this.
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Old 11-17-2007, 11:29 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Question Codes #22 and 51

Hi! I checked at the obd codes for a second time this week and now the truck's computer said #22 and #51. Does anybody ever had these code before and what should I look at?
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Old 11-18-2007, 07:19 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxben View Post
Hi! I checked at the obd codes for a second time this week and now the truck's computer said #22 and #51. Does anybody ever had these code before and what should I look at?
ECU code 22 is water temperature sensor (or areas around it) for ECU and code 51 is TPS (throttle position sensor) sensor or areas around it. I suspect your water temp sensor is faulty and your throttle body is fouled up with excessive carbon build up,read below for full details and follow my repair help.If you are in Dartmouth,Nova Scotia I can help you.

About half of the ECU codes stored on the first & second generation EFI Toyotas don't show a constant blinking check engine light therefore you must pull the ECU codes to see if a fault is registered.

To pull the ECU codes:

All 1980-1995 and including 1995 EFI equipped vehicle allow you to find engine and related faults by pulling the ECU (computer) codes without the need for a handheld OBDII diagnosis scanner, the sites listed below have the fault codes needed to pull the codes and the instructions on how to do it:

http://autorepair.about.com/library/...bl-dtcs-36.htm
http://autorepair.about.com/library/...bl-dtcs-53.htm
http://autorepair.about.com/library/...bl-dtcs-71.htm
http://autorepair.about.com/library/...bl-dtcs-90.htm
http://www.off-road.com/toyota/tech/codes/index.html
http://lcengineering.com/TechNotes/TechNote12.htm
http://lcengineering.com/TechNotes/TechNote13.htm
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/P...ct/Engine.html
http://www.mad-mechanic.com/toyota/t...tml#obtaincode
http://www.freewebs.com/th3duke/22RE-ECU.mht
http://www.troublecodes.net/Toyota
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h27.pdf
http://www.showmesome.info/hilux/inf...E/Page0096.htm
http://www.efisakh.narod.ru/at_toyota.htm (auto tranny codes)
http://www.usatransdoctor.com/foreigntoyota.htm
http://www.obd-codes.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=3

Pulling the ECU (EFI computer) codes is the first thing I do to diagnosis a problem thereafter I reset the ECU to see if the same problems show up and if so I then take voltage measurements at each ECU wire both with the engine running and not and compare with the factory service manual, I also close the ignition switch after a cold engine and also after a warm engine and compare the resistance values with the factory service manual. This technique will completely isolate your problem without having to do trial and error and it is the technique I use when repairing tv's, vcr's, home/car audio.

Lots of city miles combined with low octane fuel & no Techtron fuel additive (cleaner) creates excessive throttle body carbon build up (gunk) so throttle body must be cleaned.

To clean the throttle body remove the air intake hose and examine the intake and throttle body for excessive carbon build up if found then buy a can of throttle body cleaner labeled "safe on oxygen sensors, TPS's and catalytic converters" do not use carb cleaner make sure your engine is fully warmed up prior to using as when the throttle body is hot it dissolves the carbon easily and quickly.

The labels usually specify to park the vehicle at ground level (0 degrees, no inclination) and have the engine running but I disagree I instead park the vehicle on a hill facing down and shut the engine off and hold a rag below the lip of the throttle body and poor the stuff and use a tooth brush. You can also use "Sea Foam" the best engine cleaner:

http://www.seafoamsales.com

available in Canada through UAP/NAPA Auto Parts Stores.

Any Public Library in your area would have the Factory service manual, Haynes,Chiltons,Mitchells,Clymers, Bentley and Toyota repair books.

Free AutoZone service manuals at:

http://www1.autozone.com/servlet/UiB...pair_guide.jsp

Tons of free factory service manuals for 4-Runners,etc:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=128021

Free 1985 Toyota 4-Runner & pickup Factory Service Manual:

http://www.functionalfab.com/resourc...;204runner.pdf
http://www.truckporn.com/tech/FSM/Toyota/1985fsm.zip
http://s3.uploadline.com/d/4831811/1...85/1985fsm.zip

http://www.subliminaltrips.com/1985toyotatruckfsm.pdf

you may also need to install this:

http://www.subliminaltrips.com/AmazingDown.exe

heres the instructions

1985 FSM - READ FIRST

This FSM works for the stock solid front axle trucks

NOTES:
If you have a pre-84 vehicle with an external voltage regulator, the ignition/charging section will not work for you. If you have an ’85 vehicle, make note as to whether you are carbed or EFI, as the ignition systems are not the same.
Accurate links for pre-84 charging/ignition systems would be appreciated.

Regarding the FSM, WARNING: Do not try and open this file over the internet no matter HOW fast your connection is; Adobe WILL lock up. This document is 1025 pages long!

Tech note from lscotte: Firefox users may not need this download tool. Right click>save link as...

Download AmazingDown 1.62 first.
Then in that program press the "New" button on the tool bar and copy and paste the URL below into the corresponding dialogue box and click download. This will greatly speed up the process of downloading such a big file from a server that isn't quite the fastest out there. Once the file is downloaded you can open it from your hard drive. (folder entitled ‘downloaded’)

Free 1993 Toyota Pickup Service Manual:

http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-buchanan/93fsm
Free 1989 - 1995 Pickup Mitchell Service Manual:
You can download the winrar archiver from: http://www.rarlab.com/download.htm
And The ISO file can be downloaded from:
http://www.filecrunch.com/file/~ga05yg <--- Part 1
http://www.filecrunch.com/file/~tlgobs <--- Part deux
The two rar files are 90 Megabytes in size, but once unrared it is a 300 Megabyte ISO image.BTW: File will be removed automatically if there is no download for 30 days.

FSM (factory service manual) & owners manuals can be acquired in several ways:

Toyota Material Distribution Center
750 West Victoria St
Rancho Dominguez/Compton, CA 90220-5538
USA
Ph:1-800-622-2033 (outside CA)(M-F: 7-5 PST)
Ph:1-800-443-7656 (inside CA)
Ph:1-310-818-4630 (in or outside CA)
Speak to Beverly or Deloris
http://techinfo.toyota.com/public/main/mdc.html
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/FSM.shtml

1)buy a used one off e-bay
2)some Toyota dealerships may give you one or sell it for $10-20 (used) as most Toyota dealerships don't repair many old Toyotas and no longer need the service manual
3)some public libraries sell their old books as they are not in demand any longer
4)some free buy & sell classified papers, websites and bulletin boards may have some used ones for sale
5)some junk yards may have one laying around
6)some Toyota specialty garages may have one laying around and no longer use it as the vehicle may be too old and those mechanics probably have so much experience that they could publish their own factory service manual with corrections and "real world repair tips"
7)if someone has the FSM maybe they could scan all of the pages and post it on a site for all of us to download or view.

The Toyota 3 liter V6 engine model: 3VZE engine is used in about 60% of the 1988-95 Toyota 4-Runners and pickups sold in Canada & USA.



Sidney® ™
Repairs TV's,VCR's,home/car audio out of my apartment
E-mail:sidneybek(at)yahoo.com
Dartmouth,Nova Scotia
Canada

for I am

Last edited by Sidney; 12-09-2007 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 11-18-2007, 10:53 AM   #9 (permalink)
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exhaust smoke colors:
black = burning gas
blue = oil
white = antifreeze

if it is black smoke, and with it happening after sitting for a few hours, then it could be a leaky injector.

if your other tests check out okay, another possible explanation for hard cold starts (though it wouldn't explain the black smoke) is a faulty fuel pump check valve. under normal operation it maintains the fuel system pressure when the vehicle is turned off by preventing fuel from entering back into the tank. if it is faulty, then the fuel pressure drops once the engine is turned off. this could also lead to vapor lock when the engine is hot, making a hot engine harder to restart.

hope you find the problem without too much more difficulty. good luck.
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