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#1 Old 03-12-2008, 09:46 PM
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Brake and battery indicator lights on intermittent

My truck is an 89 22r-e, manual trans., 2wd, 217k. This started about 2 months ago, but has been happening more frequently lately. My brake (emergency) and battery indicator lights come on on my dash. If it happens, it is always both lights together, never just one or the other. Sometimes they are on from the time I start the truck, sometimes come on while driving. Sometimes they will be on for up to 15 minutes, sometimes just for a second, and anywhere in between. Sometimes they aren't on at all. I checked the voltage to my battery, engine off with key in on position, and with the engine running, and the reading is normal. It is getting annoying, so I am hoping someone can tell me what is causing it. I'd rather fix any problem than risk getting stuck somewhere. Is it the alternator? Is it just a fluke in the wiring? Or something else? Thanks for the help!!!
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#2 Old 03-12-2008, 11:44 PM
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A Brake and batterylight being thrown at the same time is a bad alternator. It might be some bad wiring, but its probibly the alt.

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Currently in street DD mode

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#3 Old 03-13-2008, 06:58 AM
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+1 on the alternator. Check the wiring but it's usually the alternator. The brushes usually wear out, but replacements are under $10 so it's a cheap fix.
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#4 Old 03-13-2008, 09:38 AM
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If the brake and charge lights come on during revving of the engine then it's a sign that the carbon alternator brushes require replacing as this is the mileage for them to wear out. In alternators the brushes wear out on average every 140-170 000 miles where on the dashboard the brake & charge light both come on at the same time. About half of the auto electric shops in your local yellow pages sell carbon alternator brushes and copper solenoid starter contacts for about $5/pair.

Another way to verify that the alternator is not charging is while the engine is running bring a metal screwdriver or any metal object near the alternator and if the alternator is working properly then it should act like a magnet and grab the screwdriver.

For carbon brushes R&R:

http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/mainte...rnator_brushes
http://www.toyotaoffroad.net/afertig...torbrushes.htm
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/adherence.4x...nateur_kzj.htm
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=166525
Rebuild your own alternator
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...r+brush+holder
http://www.bitwalla.com/cruisers/art...lternator.html
http://www.barneymc.com/toy_root/tec...c/altrnatr.htm
ftp://ftp.bauchan.org/Toyota/electri...alternator.zip
http://forums.bauchan.org/portal/vie...ds.php?rid=177

For decoding the dashboard lights:

http://www.powerbase-auto.co.uk/alternator_faults.htm
http://members.1stconnect.com/anozir...alternator.htm

Here are part #'s for Toyota alternator carbon brushes and copper solenoid starter contacts which are used in about 95% of all Toyota vehicles.

Toyota alternator Brushes with holder:

Toyota # 27370-35060=$29 CDN
Honda # 31105-PZ1-003
Metro # 39-82003 (www.metroautoinc.com ,Pomona,California)
Unknown brand name # F4019-53035

Alternator brush only (qty:1 brush unless otherwise stated):

AC Delco # E724
AC Delco # E731 (side wire and concave tip)
Ace Electric # DA-61 (brush only),S-5367 (brush holder)
Beck Arnley # 178-1669 (side wire and concave tip)
Beck Arnley # 178-1376
Borg Warner # X580 (side wire and concave tip)
Canadian Tire # 19-2050-6=$4.49/pair
Daihatsu # 27370-87302-000
Daihatsu # 27371-63020-000
Daihatsu # 27371-87501-000
Daihatsu # 27371-70300-000
Echlin # E601=$8.16 CDN/pair (UAP/NAPA)
Echlin # ECHE601
Echlin # EC480
Echlin # ECHE480
GP Sorensen # 255047 (side wire and concave tip)
GM # 94123056
GM # 96054118
Honda # 31144-PD1-004=$9.72
Honda # 31144-PD1-0040
Honda # 31144-PD1-0030
Honda # 31150-PR7-A01
Honda # 31150-PTO-003
Hino Industries # 021660-0390
Hino Industries # 021660-0510
Isuzu # 8-94123-056-0
Isuzu # 8-97032-308-0
Isuzu # 8-97032-310-0
Mazda # 021660-0390
Mazda # 021660-0510
Mazda # KL47-18-W75
Metro # 38-82001(side wire concave tip) (www.metroautoinc.com ,Pomona,California)
Mileage Plus # E601SB
Mitsubishi # MD604474
Mitsubishi # 21660-0510
Niehoff # WA571 (side wire and concave tip)
NipponDenso # 021660-0390
NipponDenso # 021660-0510
Standard # JX-116 (side wire and concave tip)
Subaru # 021660-0390
Subaru # 021660-0510
Suzuki # 31631-82610
Suzuki # 31656-82611
Suzuki # 021660-0510
Toyota # 27370-42010
Toyota # 27370-75060
Toyota # 27371-63020=$5.80 (up to 9105) (side wire and concave tip)
Toyota # 27371-70300=$5.20 (9105-9511)
Toyota # 27371-76004-71
UAP/NAPA # MPEE601SB
Victory Lap # FAX57=$4.49 CDN/pair (Canadian Tire)
Wilson's Electric # 26-29-7534 (side wire and concave tip)=$2.20 each CDN (Diesel Auto Electric)(Parts for Trucks,box of 10 for $3.40 CDN)

Specifications:
Length=15 mm
Width=7 mm
Thickness=5 mm
Lead length=49 mm

These Honda alternators are the same except the pulley must be swapped:

1986-89 Honda Accord (Carb),the EFI can be used but the voltage reg must be swapped
1990-93 Acura Integra

For alternator upgrade:

http://www.off-road.com/toyota/tech/100alt/index.html
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/alternator
http://home.earthlink.net/~twopapa/bigalt.htm
http://www.toyotaoffroad.com/Article.../Chevy_Alt.htm
http://www.alternatorparts.com/Toyot...lternators.htm

24 Toyota (NipponDenso now called Denso) starter repair sites:

http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota/tech/starter/ -
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Starter.shtml
http://char.tuiasi.ro/vw/reality/rog...s/Starter.html
http://yotarepair.com/startercontacts.html
http://www.toyotaoffroad.net/afertig...rterrepair.htm
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/maintenance/starter
http://www.yotatech.com/~corey/tech/...r/haveblue.htm
http://www.sleeoffroad.com/technical...er_rebuild.htm
http://www.startercontacts.com/install.htm
http://www.startercontacts.com/image...loded_view.jpg
http://www.colorado4x4.net/tech/star..._contacts.html
http://www.barneymc.com/toy_root/techneek/starter.htm
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/adherence.4x4/start_bj.htm
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=166530
Repair your own STARTER
http://www.toyotanation.com/showthre...312&forumid=10
http://www.toyotaoffroad.com/Article...er/starter.htm
http://www.tacomaterritory.com/boophoenix/starter.html
http://www.tacomaterritory.com/booph...er/image01.jpg
http://www.yotatech.com/f128/starter...4runner-76347/
http://www.team-integra.net/sections...ArticleID=1079
http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...g/1starter.pdf
ftp://ftp.bauchan.org/Toyota/general...id_contact.zip
ftp://ftp.bauchan.org/Toyota/electri...rter_motor.zip
http://forums.bauchan.org/portal/vie...ds.php?rid=176

Starter contact kits (8mm ID hole):

Ace Electric # S-5263 (only two contacts)
Ace Electric # S-5264 (only two contacts)
Metro # 66-82104 (only two contacts) (www.metroautoinc.com ,Pomona,California)
Toyota # 28226-72010/80 (battery side)(also1KZTE-2LT-1KZT)
Toyota # 28226-72080 (8808-9108)
Toyota # 28226-16130 (9108-9308)
Toyota # 28226-55050 (9308-9511)
Toyota # 28226-70040 (9308-9511)
Toyota # 28226-72040 (motor side if needed)
Toyota # 28226-72010 (8808-9511)
Toyota # 28226-74070 (9108-9511) (2000 Tundra & others)
Toyota # 28226-22050 (2000 Tundra & others)
Toyota # 28226-66060 (1993-1997 Land Cruiser 2.0 KW starters)

For others besides 22R series:

Toyota # 28226-54220 (motor side) (2LTE, 3L..LN13# IKZTE, 2L#, KZN130,LN108,112,85..4FC)
Toyota # 28226-54250 (Diesel Surf 2.4TD, contains a new end cover and gasket)
Toyota # 28226-54320 (battery side) (2LTE, 3L..LN13# IKZTE, 2L#, KZN130, LN108,112,85..4FC,3B-1HZ-BJ73-HZJ7#-1KZT-KZJ70)
Toyota # 28226-17030 (battery side) (1H#-HDJ80-HZJ80)
Toyota # 28226-56250 (battery side) (3B-1HZ-1PZ-PZJ7#)

Starter contacts only (8mm ID hole):

Ace Electric # S-5231
Ace Electric # S-5293 (crescent moon shape)
Ace Electric # S-5295 (crescent moon shape)
Metro # 66-82106 (www.metroautoinc.com ,Pomona,California)
Tons more at:
http://www.metroautoinc.com/PDF%20Fi...%20Contact.pdf
Toyota # 28226-70040
Wilson’s Electric # 45-29-652 (maybe it’s 45-29-6521)

Starter brushes:

AC Delco # D762
GP Sorensen # 255048
Standard # JX-117

Whether your starter uses two rectangular types or one rectangular and one crescent you can substitute with two squares or one square and one crescent so any of the above part #'s for those kits will be the right ones,or about half of the auto electric shops in your local yellow pages would sell aftermarket contacts for only $5 each or the pair.

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E-mail:sidneybek(at)yahoo.com
Dartmouth,Nova Scotia
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#5 Old 03-13-2008, 08:47 PM
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Another way to verify that the alternator is not charging is while the engine is running bring a metal screwdriver or any metal object near the alternator and if the alternator is working properly then it should act like a magnet and grab the screwdriver.


I've been wanting to say this for awhile. Please be VERY VERY VERY careful holding a metal object near an alternator while the motor is running. Fast moving belts and pulleys mixed with screwdrivers and wrenches sometimes don't play nice!

It is also easy to check the alt function with a Electrical meter.

Like this:
1. with motor off measuer DC voltage of battery. Should be approx. 12volts.
2. with motor running again measure DC voltage at battery. Should now be approx 14volts because the alt is now charging.

If the voltage measures the same with whether the motor is running or not the alt could be bad.

Many of the chain parts stores have test equipment they will take out to your vehicle to check it for you at no charge. They probably can sell you the replacement brushes as well if your alt is bad. Although admittedly they'd rather sell you a complete alt.

06 xB 16,003mi.
00 Ody 94,800 mi.
99 Saturn 118,000mi.
95 Celica 124,000mi.
89 HILUX 22R 219,452mi.
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#6 Old 03-13-2008, 10:43 PM
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Thanks for all the great advice and help!! I tested my voltage at the battery and it was 14 volts, but the indicator lights weren't on at the time. I'm planning on changing my alternator this weekend; it has a lifetime warranty so I may as well change the whole thing. I was guessing the lights were indicating a dying alternator, but their intermittent appearance has me perplexed. Why are they on only intermittently? Is the alternator sometimes charging and not at other times? Any ideas why? When I'm driving and it first comes on, it is almost always while I'm idling at a stoplight or a similar situation, and sometimes putting it in gear and hitting the throttle will take the lights away. Any thoughts why? I just like to try to figure out why it does what it does. I have had alternators die in other vehicles before, and none died slowly, they all nosedived in less than an hour. Thanks a bunch for all the help!!
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#7 Old 03-14-2008, 04:58 AM
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The brushes may only be making contact sometimes. Vibration and the load will affect whether it will generate enough current to run properly. I would check your cables and connections. You may have a loose wire or corrosion on the battery terminal that causing an intermittent connection from the alternator.
Has the alternator been changed before? They seem to go for almost 200k before the brushes die at least for OEM units.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowCindy View Post
Thanks for all the great advice and help!! I tested my voltage at the battery and it was 14 volts, but the indicator lights weren't on at the time. I'm planning on changing my alternator this weekend; it has a lifetime warranty so I may as well change the whole thing. I was guessing the lights were indicating a dying alternator, but their intermittent appearance has me perplexed. Why are they on only intermittently? Is the alternator sometimes charging and not at other times? Any ideas why? When I'm driving and it first comes on, it is almost always while I'm idling at a stoplight or a similar situation, and sometimes putting it in gear and hitting the throttle will take the lights away. Any thoughts why? I just like to try to figure out why it does what it does. I have had alternators die in other vehicles before, and none died slowly, they all nosedived in less than an hour. Thanks a bunch for all the help!!
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#8 Old 03-14-2008, 05:36 AM
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The light is on sometimes and off sometimes because sometimes it's charging and sometimes it's not. As the brushes and commutator wear the brushes get shorter and shorter and the commutator gets worn and dirty from the stuff wearing off the brushes. At some point the brushes are too short to reach the commutator and the connection is broken and the light comes on.

This may or may not be the problem depending on how old the alt is and the condition of the other wiring in the charging circuit. Like sometoyotaguy said "Has the alternator been changed before?".

If this info is unknown it is best to get it checked at a shop. Here in FL the Advanced auto parts stores take a tester out to the vehicle and test it for you. I've read mulitple accounts on the forums of people changing out the alt only to find another root cause of their problem. In the long run it may be most expedient to get at least a second opinion from a shop. Good Luck! and please let us know how it goes.

06 xB 16,003mi.
00 Ody 94,800 mi.
99 Saturn 118,000mi.
95 Celica 124,000mi.
89 HILUX 22R 219,452mi.
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#9 Old 09-16-2008, 10:36 PM
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Had the same exact problem. Since the truck had 160k and an unknown service history, I replaced the alternator for peace of mind... Problem did not go away. Turned out to be a flaky connection at the 3-prong plug on the back of the alternator. When warm (!?!) or at a steady idle, it was fine, and would charge properly - when cold, it would not.

Last edited by badjuju; 09-16-2008 at 10:42 PM.
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#10 Old 09-17-2008, 11:18 AM
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Stop making a big deal out of this until you have the alternator checked...
Then, if it turns out good, then investigate other things. But do the obvious stuff first.

1991 4x4 Ext. Cab Pickup 3VZE 5-speed
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#11 Old 06-17-2010, 08:02 PM
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I have the same problem. Didnt stop to think about the plug on the back of the Alt. the first alt I repalced had a blown off side post on the ALT. It also killed the battery. after that I have nothing but problems with it charging. I took it to the auto zone and they checked it. they say the battery is no getting a charge from the regulator. Dont know why. I guess I'll check the plug next. then try to trace the wires. Anyone here with a fast way on how to find a bad wire.
thanks
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