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Old 05-01-2008, 06:42 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Need to change 22re timing chain?

I have a 1992 truck with 22re and 180k miles. I have owned the truck since new and have service done occasionally at the dealership. The service managers keep telling me not to worry about changing the timing chain and told me the engine is an non-interference engine, which I believe is wrong. They told me the engine is running perfect and to leave it alone as the chain will get noisy if it needs to be replaced and their mechanics can tell when it needs to be changed.

I am thinking about going against their advice and just changing it myself or having them do it the next time a service sale is on. I have replaced timing chains in my younger years.

The truck runs and looks great and I hate to wreck an engine because of bad advice, if it is bad advice. What do you thing about NOT replacing the tc, per Toyota dealership?

Last edited by sailor; 05-01-2008 at 06:43 AM.
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Old 05-01-2008, 07:57 AM   #2 (permalink)
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the 22r engine is an interference engine. what the dealership is counting on is that timing chain breakage is quite rare. it WILL get noisy when it is time to be replaced (usually broken chain guides). once that happens the dealership is going to want to pull the oil pan and remove the broken timing chain pieces. this will add a chunk of change to the cost of the job.

all in all i cannot argue with the dealership. they just want to make money. i would replace the timing set myself with a metal backed guide set from Ted at engnbldr.com for about 65 bucks.
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Old 05-01-2008, 08:38 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
I have a 1992 truck with 22re and 180k miles. I have owned the truck since new and have service done occasionally at the dealership. The service managers keep telling me not to worry about changing the timing chain and told me the engine is an non-interference engine, which I believe is wrong. They told me the engine is running perfect and to leave it alone as the chain will get noisy if it needs to be replaced and their mechanics can tell when it needs to be changed.

I am thinking about going against their advice and just changing it myself or having them do it the next time a service sale is on. I have replaced timing chains in my younger years.

The truck runs and looks great and I hate to wreck an engine because of bad advice, if it is bad advice. What do you thing about NOT replacing the tc, per Toyota dealership?
you are very very close to a timing chain replacement or a NEW ENGINE.

your choice, the timing chain replacement can be done by shade trees, (even me!) and it will save you the cost of a new engine.

180,000 is a pretty high milage from what i've read for not already replacing the chain.

you are on borrowed time now.

good luck !
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Old 05-01-2008, 08:43 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks for the reply. I will definitely get the metal backed guide set. I am upset with the dealership telling me not to worry about the chain. I would have gladly changed it earlier for piece of mind but they said leave it alone. I looked in Toyota's service manuals and did not find any reference to the engine being an interference engine - glad I joined this forum to get valuable information!

The engine is quite. When the guides break, is it pretty evident that something has broken? Is it pretty noisy? Does the noise occur at idle or at higher rpms.

I am going to change it in the next few weeks and found a site from this forum with complete change out details. I also have the factory service manuals.

Thanks again.
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Old 05-01-2008, 09:14 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I looked at the procedure for changing the chain and it looks pretty involved for an old mechanic like me. The last time I changed a chain was almost 40 years ago. http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/maintenance/timingchain/

What do you thing of purchasing a complete kit from, for example, DOA at $201 or just purchasing metal guides and then other components from local retailer, like checker auto or Toyota?

I don't race and just need just components for daily driving. Is prestretched chain worth it?

Thanks again.
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Old 05-01-2008, 09:56 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Just for the heck of it I called two dealerships about changing the chain. Both said to keep driving it until noise (rattling at idle or other problems occur). They said the chain is good for the life of the engine.

I then asked for an estimate to change the TC "proactively" on an engine that is NOT having any issues. One dealer quoted t $1200 minimum, if all goes well. The other dealer said $1600 to $1800. WOW!

And I thought changing a timing "belt" was expensive............time to dust off my tool box and get to work.

Heck, I might as well change the water pump and adjust the valves while I am at it.
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Old 05-01-2008, 10:22 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
Just for the heck of it I called two dealerships about changing the chain. Both said to keep driving it until noise (rattling at idle or other problems occur). They said the chain is good for the life of the engine.

I then asked for an estimate to change the TC "proactively" on an engine that is NOT having any issues. One dealer quoted t $1200 minimum, if all goes well. The other dealer said $1600 to $1800. WOW!

And I thought changing a timing "belt" was expensive............time to dust off my tool box and get to work.

Heck, I might as well change the water pump and adjust the valves while I am at it.
yes sir, the dealership fee is high. the DOA kit or engnbldr's kit are both good kit. the metal guides should make you much happier, and the tensioner is the most important part, in my opinion.

replacing the water pump, checking the oil pump carefully, and being meticulous about cleaning hte mating surfaces is important. the toyota FGIP (form a gasket in place) stuff is good. i used 1/2 a tube on my TC change, and still use the remainder for stuff like motorcycle oil changes, holding gaskets, etc. really good stuff !

good luck
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Old 05-01-2008, 10:55 AM   #8 (permalink)
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i would definitely spend the $60 on a brand new oil pump from engnbldr.com. its cheap insurance, i had oil pump noise problems on mine at 200k that required oil pump replacement. not much fun. it can just be another part of the timing chain job since you will have it all apart.
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Old 05-01-2008, 12:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
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i would definitely spend the $60 on a brand new oil pump from engnbldr.com. its cheap insurance, i had oil pump noise problems on mine at 200k that required oil pump replacement. not much fun. it can just be another part of the timing chain job since you will have it all apart.
I am going to put the old girl in storage for a bit and work on it over the next few weeks.

I plan to change the oil and water pump while doing the TC, plus adjust the valves since the cover will be off anyway.

I am heading to town to pick up some deep creap to presoak some of the bolts that have not been off since the truck was manufactured.

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions.
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Old 05-01-2008, 02:08 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by sailor View Post
I looked at the procedure for changing the chain and it looks pretty involved for an old mechanic like me. The last time I changed a chain was almost 40 years ago. http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/maintenance/timingchain/

What do you thing of purchasing a complete kit from, for example, DOA at $201 or just purchasing metal guides and then other components from local retailer, like checker auto or Toyota?

I don't race and just need just components for daily driving. Is prestretched chain worth it?

Thanks again.
The 4X4 Wire article is very thorough and makes the job easy.

Go w/the engnbldr parts.
Replace the H20 pump also,

Your dealers are full of s*&^, the TC will NOT last the life of the engine, that's why it's called out in the PM table to be replaced at the 90K (or something like that) service.

They want you to let it stretch until it either wears a hole thru the TC cover, or breaks. Either way it's much more damage and a much bigger bill.
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Old 05-01-2008, 04:06 PM   #11 (permalink)
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The 4X4 Wire article is very thorough and makes the job easy.

Go w/the engnbldr parts.
Replace the H20 pump also,

Your dealers are full of s*&^, the TC will NOT last the life of the engine, that's why it's called out in the PM table to be replaced at the 90K (or something like that) service.

They want you to let it stretch until it either wears a hole thru the TC cover, or breaks. Either way it's much more damage and a much bigger bill.
I looked at the factory service manuals, my original owners manual, and a copy of the dealership PM sheet. There no reference to changing the timing chain on a 22r-e engine. The 3vz-e yes, but not the 22r-e. This is way I have been asking the dealer about changing the chain everytime the truck was serviced there.

I would be interested in seeing a copy of your PM schedule for this engine. If it in fact states the chain should be changed at 90k, then my dealer will get holy hell from me. I have bought six Toyota's from them and the last one will be the last.

I would mention the dealership's name but assume it is a no no on this forum.

Thanks again for your reply.
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Old 05-01-2008, 05:49 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I, like you, am no longer a kid. I am right in the middle of a timing chain job on a 22re right now. It is a big job and takes a lot of time. In my younger years I did lots of wrenching but as I got older (and could afford newer cars) I haven't done much but change oil and some easy timing belts..My advise to you is.....If you engine sounds quiet at all rpm's, your oil pressure is average or above and the engine feels strong, I would just take off the valve cover and take a look at your guides and chain. If all is intact I would really consider not getting into this timing chain repair. If you want to make a project out of it and consider it a form of entertainment then go for the change out. But if you need your truck and don't really feel like attacking this job....Give it a thought...

ps..when the guide breaks..(almost always the drivers side) you will hear a distinct sound like a chain rattling or an exhaust heat shield..If you catch it at this time, you can do the repairs and not really risk engine damage. Just my thoughts...good luck...
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Old 05-01-2008, 07:34 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by sailor View Post
I have a 1992 truck with 22re and 180k miles. They told me the engine is running perfect and to leave it alone as the chain will get noisy if it needs to be replaced and their mechanics can tell when it needs to be changed. What do you thing about NOT replacing the tc, per Toyota dealership?
I agree with the dealership. I also have a '92 22RE which ran fine up to 417,671 miles. Then one morning I heard an rather loud and worrisome marbles-in-a-tin-can sound from the engine that lasted 5-10 seconds. That sound was the timing chain running slack and slapping against the drivers side chain guide. The chain was running slack because the chain tensioner was getting lazy and failing to instantly tension the chain upon engine start up. So I stopped driving the truck until I had time to replace the timing chain mechanism. Because I stopped driving the truck right away, my plastic chain guides did not break into pieces and fall into the oil pan.

So the dealership is right - you'll hear a new a loud marbles-in-a-tin-can sound from the engine if your timing chain ever needs to be replaced. Original owners who change their oil alot and do alot highway driving get 300,000 -500,000 miles of life from the timing chain.

I replaced my chain mechanism with all Toyota parts (including new nylon plastic chain guides) because the factory parts already had a 417,671 mile track record of durability. And I'm now at 473,600 miles and no further problems.

Alot of owners have the mistaken impression that broken plastic chain guides causes the timing chain to rattle and that metal guides will prevent / cure the rattle. Wrong! A weak timing chain tensioner is what causes the chain rattle. So even with metal guides installed a chain can rattle. So it is critically important to replace your chain tensioner with the highest quality tensioner available - a Japan made Toyota brand tensioner. Most owners do the opposite - they buy a cheaply priced "made in the USA" timing kit with metal guides from partusa.com, enginebuilder.com etc., and end up with a cheap quality tensioner. So down the road they will need to change their timing chain mechanism again because their cheap quality tensioner will get lazy causing the chain to rub against their metal guides and grinding bits of rubber and metal off them which will circulate through the engine (not good). Maybe at that point they will begin to understand the metal guides are partly a marketing gimmick because they distract the owner from realizing how important it is to use a top quality factory tensioner.

Since I'm at 473,600 miles I also disagree with the owners here who said you need a new oil pump, rebuilt cylinder head, and so forth. Many of these owners are not original owners like you and I are - they bought well used and abused Toyotas for a low price and so alot of stuff on their engines is already worn out at only 100,000 - 200,000 miles.
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Old 05-01-2008, 08:03 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I like your idea of taking the cover off and doing an inspection. If all looks Ok, I will wait until winter or some other time to tackle this project. Thanks.
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Old 05-01-2008, 08:23 PM   #15 (permalink)
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This truck has been driven daily since new mainly on the highway with only fours stops to work. The oil has been changed every 3K miles so I hope to get lots of more miles - I would be tickled pink just to get 300k miles!

I am going to take the valve cover off next Tuesday and look at the TC components.

Thanks for your reply and others on this forum about what to listen for when parts are getting bad and suggestions about where to buy parts.

Regards.
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