are you better than four mechanics?

[toyo89]

Here is a problem that is quite challenging in that four mechanics at the same garage could not figure it out. I hope one of you can put this mystery to rest... I had a reman engine put in my truck recently and since I had a hard time shifting I told the garage owner to go ahead and replace the clutch while you're at it. The mechanics put the clutch in - the clutch would not go into gear. They bled the clutch real good. Nothing. The owner thought that he was sent the wrong clutch so he ordered another one. Same thing happened again. The mechanics replaced the slave cylinder and master cylinder (actually they went through three slave cylinders). The truck wouldn't go into gear at all. The garage owner decided that he must have gotten a bad clutch or the wrong one for my truck again. By this time I was pissed so I got the VIN from the truck and ordered the clutch parts from the Toyota dealership myself. The owner had the nerve to ask me to pick them up (50 miles away). I had to go to work. The mechanics picked up the parts and installed the clutch, throwout bearing, release bearing, pressure plate, everything new except flywheel and clutch fork. The same thing happened again. The truck would not shift into any gear. Turned out the slave cylinder piston was't reaching the clutch fork. No one seemed to know why. I asked the owner how the flywheel looked. He said it looked new and he didn't have it resurfaced - he didn't see any reason to. I told him I thought it was standard practice to mic the flywheels, inspect them and have them resurfaced. Again, he said it looked new. I asked if the clutch fork was bent. He said they never bend. Of course I knew better and I had already kicked myself a hundred times for taking the truck to these demolition men. But the damage was done. They ended up rigging the truck by welding a 1/4 inch rod onto the slave cylinder piston. This worked for two months until the piece broke off. The owner told me that he talked to his son (another mechanic) who told him that my flywheel must have been worn too much. I reminded him that he said the flywheel looked new. He said it did look all shiny and new but it must have been worn beyond resurfacing.
So what do you think? What could cause the clutch not to engage with all new parts except for the flywheel and clutch fork? Also, the adjustment at the pedal is adjusted all the way out. This is a 1989 3.0 3vze 4x4. 5 speed manual.

[Vicoor]

But really it sounds to me like you may have found 4 wannabe mechs.

The last line of your post may be the key.

Also, the adjustment at the pedal is adjusted all the way out.

The adjustment at the pedal is only to adjust the pedal height and "toeplay"

If it is adjusted too far it will prevent the master cylinder from returning to the rest position, and this will prevent proper bleeding.

If it is adjusted all the way out and it does still have play in the pushrod at the master cylinder, look for flex and or cracking around where the master cylinder bolts up to the firewall and it's support bracket.

one other thing to look for under the dash is wear around the clevis pin in the pedal arm.

It's hard for me to imagine what could be wrong in the bellhousing. a bent arm or extremely worn pivot, but either of those would be very unusual.

If you can't see anything wrong like I've descibed under the dash, I'd suggest finding a real technician that is familiar with your truck. Anyone can speculate about a problem like this based on your desciption, but without a first hand inspection it is just speculation.

Good luck

[new echo owner]

It is possible that you have a crack or broken clutch pedal mounting bracket. When you press on the clutch pedal, the bracket is flexing rather than pushing the clutch master cylinder push rod to disengage the clutch. Get a light and look underneath the dash when the pedal is mounted, see if the bracket is flexing when you put down on the clutch pedal.

N.E.O.

[denniswoo]

you can measure the rod length at the slave cylinder when you depress the clutch.there are specs on that.and if it is within specs you either got a bad fork or combination of bad fork and flywheel machined previous if you are a second owner,machining in itself wouldn't cause this problem.

[Flashmn]

flywheel is most likely ok... machining is only resurfacing and it certainly wont put a flywheel so out of spec that the clutch wont work.

Possible theres something wrong with the cylinders of the clutch and the guys at the garage dont know what they're doing.

[ohgood]

(this is the wrong shop to be using)

is your plastic doo-hickey at the bottem of the shifter worn out ?

never weld on load bearing things, especially if you're not certain the cause of the problem. they have a tendancy to come apart at the worst possible time.

[hevster1]

Originally Posted by new echo owner

It is possible that you have a crack or broken clutch pedal mounting bracket. When you press on the clutch pedal, the bracket is flexing rather than pushing the clutch master cylinder push rod to disengage the clutch. Get a light and look underneath the dash when the pedal is mounted, see if the bracket is flexing when you put down on the clutch pedal.

N.E.O.

The above is the most likely cause. While a clutch fork being bent is possible I have never seen it. These are a real PIA to bleed at times. I have also seen the rubber hoses collapse and not allow the proper travel.
If a flywheel is machined too far it could cause this but again this is unlikely as you would have to machine a whole lot of material. However certain aftermarket clutches require the use of a matching flywheel. If you had one of those clutches and the same one was not installed there could be a problem.

My advice to you as some others have said here is to bring it to a professional. I would also demand at least the labor back as they obviously didn't fix your truck and jury rigged it to get it out of their shop. Try www.asashop.org or www.iatn.net for a shop. Good luck.

[toyo89]

Thanks you guys! I found the problem. The adjustment at the pedal was messed up. I adjusted it out and now the clutch catches at the top. All I have to do now is adjust it down close to halfway and the clutch should catch at halfway. I don't know why the mechanics didn't check this. It sure cost them alot of money.

[new echo owner]

Why would the adjustment be out to start with? It is a hydraulic clutch, so it shouldn't need any adjustment unless the master cylinder was replaced previously and it wasn't adjusted properly.

N.E.O.

[Turboman412]

becouse when u install a new clutch were a used one was. the adjustment of the grap point is going to be diffrant

[Vicoor]

The proper adjustment is so that there is 10mm freeplay(toeplay) at the pedal.

Once this is set there is no reason to have to touch it again unless you replace the clutch master cylinder.

[moldycheese]

Originally Posted by Vicoor

The proper adjustment is so that there is 10mm freeplay(toeplay) at the pedal.

Once this is set there is no reason to have to touch it again unless you replace the clutch master cylinder.

but these "mechanics" probably bent or tweeked something when they removed the transmission resulting in the adjustment issue

[new echo owner]

Originally Posted by Turboman412

becouse when u install a new clutch were a used one was. the adjustment of the grap point is going to be diffrant

Its hydraulic, the adjustment doesn't change, it is self-compensated; the push-rod in the slave cylinder will retract to compensate for the wear of the clutch disc. The clutch pedal adjustment should stay the same, except for the engagement point; new clutch closer to the floor, as the clutch wear, the engagement point would move higher.

N.E.O.

[new echo owner]

Originally Posted by moldycheese

but these "mechanics" probably bent or tweeked something when they removed the transmission resulting in the adjustment issue

Clutch mechanism don't bent very easily, and there is only the clutch fork that they have to contend with.

N.E.O.