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#1 Old 12-11-2008, 11:18 PM
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hesitation on acceleration

Hi there! I've got a '90 Toyota pickup base model, 22R carbureted, 4-speed. Lately I have noticed that the truck seems to have a sluggish spot right when I take off from a stop. It is not particularly noticable unless I have to accelerate quickly, such as turning left through a gap in traffic. Once the engine picks up a few RPM, the power comes back. Occasionally, I feel a bit of a cough from the truck. The engine has nearly 150,000 miles, with new timing chain, head gasket, and spark plugs last year.

A couple things I think could contribute to the problem- The weather has been cool, between 30 and 50 degrees. My commute is short, barely enough to make the temperature gauge register. To offset the ill effects of such short trips, I regularly run it down the highway to my parent's place, but maybe I don't do it often enough. I burn regular grade gas, but it does come from a reputable station.

Any ideas? I have become rather spoiled with this little truck, as for the most part everything works perfectly. I'd kind of like to keep it that way!

1990 Toyota Pickup, 2wd, 4-spd, reg. cab (sold!)
1998 Toyota Camry, 4cyl auto
1971 Toyota Hilux, 4cyl, 4spd, 4wd, 4 tires...
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#2 Old 12-13-2008, 10:57 PM
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Perform a full tune up. Short drives (under 5 miles) can cause added engine wear, and plugs will tend to foul faster.

Do the tune up, then see where you stand.

1991 Pickup - 3vze - 4x4 - SR5 - 5sp- 270k.
Currently in street DD mode

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#3 Old 12-15-2008, 01:51 PM
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Could short trips cause the catalytic converter to become plugged or restricted?

1990 Toyota Pickup, 2wd, 4-spd, reg. cab (sold!)
1998 Toyota Camry, 4cyl auto
1971 Toyota Hilux, 4cyl, 4spd, 4wd, 4 tires...
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#4 Old 12-15-2008, 05:00 PM
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^Ya could if your motor is real cold and you're getting a lot of unburnt carbon build-up in there. Do what jay said and give it new plugs, wires, cap, rotor, pcv valve, filters, oil, check timing, possibly check valve clearances if you want, etc. Parts for all that shouldn't run you more than 150 bucks.

Do that and see what happens, then consider the cat. What about a carb problem?

Newb alert: Sorry guys, never had a carbed car. Do carbed motors have a TPS?


'93 Pickup 4x4 22R-E
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#5 Old 12-15-2008, 07:29 PM
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Never had a carbed vehicle?! Ithought I was moving up when I got electric choke! My wife's car is fuel injected, but I've never had one of my own. I'm pretty sure this doesn't have a throttle position sensor. Old vehicles didn't, anyway.

1990 Toyota Pickup, 2wd, 4-spd, reg. cab (sold!)
1998 Toyota Camry, 4cyl auto
1971 Toyota Hilux, 4cyl, 4spd, 4wd, 4 tires...
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#6 Old 12-15-2008, 09:47 PM
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A little investigation may yield rewards. Take a look at the spark plugs and see how it's running. You may already know what to look for, but here are some good pages on the subject:

http://www.tuner-junction.com/TJForu...ark-plugs.html
http://aboutkarting.com/plugs/
http://roadstarclinic.com/content/view/70/127/
http://www.theultralightplace.com/sparkplugs.htm

With it hesitating when accelerating, one possible cause is that when you open the throttle there is not a corresponding extra spray of fuel to keep the mixture rich enough. This can happen when carbs get worn or fouled. If the plugs are light tan or white, that would support this idea, but it's hard to tell because acceleration is a special condition vs. cruising at a steady rpm. The mixture adjustment takes care of the steady cruising but not the acceleration, thus it's possible for the carb to be too rich at cruise (thus producing flat black deposits on plugs) but too lean when accelerating.

I'm not familiar with that carb but I would certainly try to learn how that carb detects acceleration and what it does to give that extra spray of fuel. Perhaps there is a vacuum actuator that isn't working.

Giving the carb a good cleaning with a good carb cleaner (I like gumout) is always a good idea, but check the plugs before you do it as the carb cleaner will change their appearance. Also it's worthwhile to make sure all of the carb bolts/nuts/screws are tight (but not over tight). Rebuilt carbs cost an arm and a leg. I've tried to rebuild many carbs, but only rarely have I improved anything - it appears to be an art for which I lack talent.

A vacuum leak or leaks could cause the problem. When I changed the head gaskets on my 89 3VZE a few years ago I noticed many of the vacuum hoses were hard and some of them were cracked. After checking the hoses you could try tightening the carb mount nuts and intake manifold bolts (but not TOO much!). I don't know what the vacuum specs are for the engine or if you have a vacuum gauge but it might be worth measuring.

Another clue would be to check the timing for advance. Does your engine have the dual-diaphragm vacuum advance distributor? If so, I understand one of the diaphragms tends to fail, causing the spark not to advance, or advance enough. To check the spark advance, attach a timing light and watch the mark as you rev the engine - the mark should move back showing the advancing spark.

If it doesn't advance, see if you can suck air through each of the two vacuum hoses attached to the vacuum advance (the little double canister on the side of the distributor.) Pull off the end of the hose attached to the intake. You should not be able to suck any air through the hose. If you can, the vacuum advance diaphragm has ruptured and you need a new one. Unfortunately, those things for some reason are priced crazy. You can get a whole distributor for almost the same price:
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,ca...2,partGroup,25
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,ca...8,partGroup,25
(By the way if you wind up getting a distributor, by all means get the beck/arnley, not the cardone)

You said the plugs are new but how are the wires, dist. cap/rotor and coil? On older engines problems often come from a combination of causes and weak spark is often one of them.

Anyway, those are some ideas. Good luck and keep us posted.

Last edited by sb5walker; 09-18-2009 at 02:22 AM.
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#7 Old 12-16-2008, 03:17 PM
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Thanks for all the suggestions! This gives me some more ideas. The cap and rotor are about two years old, and I got the good brass contacts. All appears well inside. The plug wires still say 1990 on them, but they are clean and appear to be in good shape. I do have the double-diaphragm distributor- timing light shows proper advance. Plug check is next, but I was mostly concerned about the carburetor. It is more complicated than the ones I am used to.

What do you mean "older" engine? It's only 18 years old! Does this mean I have my foot in the grave before 30?

1990 Toyota Pickup, 2wd, 4-spd, reg. cab (sold!)
1998 Toyota Camry, 4cyl auto
1971 Toyota Hilux, 4cyl, 4spd, 4wd, 4 tires...
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#8 Old 12-16-2008, 05:22 PM
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I think he meant older engines relative to new cars, not your other cars.


'93 Pickup 4x4 22R-E
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#9 Old 12-16-2008, 10:33 PM
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Checked the plugs, they are clean and white. Strangely enough, the problem seems to have cured itself, at least for the time being. The temperature around here has dropped to about 14 degrees during the day, and I am starting to think that has something to do with it. The problem started when the weather started to cool, and went away when it got really cold.

Looking at sb5walker's advice, I am kind of wondering about the accelerator pump giving its extra squirt. On my truly old truck (1949 Dodge, now you see why I can't think of the toyota as old!), the carburetor has an adjustable lever to work the accelerator pump. Long push for cold weather, short push for warm. I'm betting that the toyota carb doesn't have that adjustment, but probably has some other means of delivering the correct squirt relative to the temperature. I think when the weather comes back up to around freezing, I'll give the carburetor a thorough cleaning and see what that does. I'll also inspect the vacuum hoses, and maybe spring for new plug wires after Christmas.

1990 Toyota Pickup, 2wd, 4-spd, reg. cab (sold!)
1998 Toyota Camry, 4cyl auto
1971 Toyota Hilux, 4cyl, 4spd, 4wd, 4 tires...
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#10 Old 12-17-2008, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadioFlyer90 View Post

What do you mean "older" engine? It's only 18 years old! Does this mean I have my foot in the grave before 30?
Uhhh... hate to break it to you! Actually, I've got you beat by a couple decades, sounds like.

49 Dodge - I'll bet that's a tough old workhorse!

Clean and white plugs actually would be consistent with an engine that's stumbling because of too lean mixture under acceleration.

Turns out there are not one but two accelerator pumps on your carb - the primary, on the side of the carb with a lever that pushes on a diaphragm (4 mounting bolts) and the "auxiliary acceleration pump" opposite the primary that has 3 mount bolts. The primary provides extra fuel when accelerating, the auxiliary is vacuum actuated and provides extra fuel when the motor is cold.

There's also a "power piston" inside that you can test to be sure it moves freely by pushing on it with your finger (once you have the carb part way disassembled.) That and the auxiliary acceleration pump's diaphragm sounds like the two most likely suspects for your symptoms. You can check the AAP's diaphragm with the carb in place, according to the author of the first site linked below.

It sounds like many 22R owners have successfully rebuilt their carbs, so it may be worth attempting. The only kits worth bothering with, apparently, are NAPA's. Even the dealer apparently recommends them. They have carb-specific kits (you'll need to give them the number off the tag (probably aluminum tag) that's attached to your carb. Other rebuild kits are generic and will lack some of the parts you need. Several of the carb's diaphragms apparently are included with the kit. Of course, any time you remove a carb, you'll need a fresh mounting gasket.

Also, very important to use proper torque in all areas of a carburetor - it's easy to overtorque the carb screws since the threads are fine and the aluminum soft. I'm not sure of the torque specs on your carb but most carbs specs are measured in inch/pounds instead of ft/lbs. Typical carb screw specs are (all in inch/lbs) 30-40, 40-50, 45-55 (divide by 12 to get ft/lbs). The carb mount nuts take more torque than the assembly screws, of course. Having said all that, the first thing I do to an old carburetor is run around and tighten all the screws I can reach as they tend to get leaky with age. So how's that for a bunch of contradictory hogwash!

I recommend cleaning the outside of the carb with carb cleaner before removing it - the less grime there is to contaminate the carb the better.

After disassembly, I like to use the gallon cans of parts cleaner - there's a wire basket in there so you can lift the parts out after their bath. Watch where you spill it - stuff will soften any sealant & won't do your paint any favors, either.

Here are some links:

An excellent owner Aisan carb faq site, but for an '86:
http://www.bluebassdesign.com/boonin/carb_faq/

Thread on accel feature of Aisan carbs:
http://www.4x4wire.com/forums/showfl...Number=1019522

Some encouragement:
http://forums.off-road.com/toyota-su...b-rebuild.html

Useful info:
http://www.4x4wire.com/forums/showfl...&Number=926288

To adjust the float height, there are tabs that you bend. Autozone has a good write-up on it in one of their Vehicle Repair Guides, but now they require registration to get to it. Here's an old copy from the internet archive, unfortunately without the pics:

http://web.archive.org/web/200806211...rInfoPages.htm

Quote:
Float and Fuel Level

See Figures 8, 9 and 10

Float level adjustments are unnecessary if the fuel level falls within the lines on the sight glass when the engine is running. The sight glass is located on the side of the carburetor and is literally a window to the float bowl. Removing the air cleaner is usually required for access, although it can be done with an extension or dental mirror.

With the carburetor off the engine, there are two float level adjustments which may be made. One is done with the air horn inverted, so that the float is in a fully raised position; the other is with the air horn in an upright position, so that the float falls to the bottom of its travel.

The float level is measured either with a special carburetor float level gauge, which comes with a rebuilding kit, or with a standard wire gauge.


Fig. 8: The sight glass is located on the side of the carburetor


Turn the air horn upside down and let the float hang down by its own weight.

Using a special float gauge SST 09240-00014 or equivalent, check the clearance between the tip of the float and the flat surface of the air horn. The clearance should be 0.386 in. (9.8mm).

This measurement should be made without the gasket on the air horn.

If the float clearance is not within specifications, adjust it by bending the upper (A) float tab.


Fig. 9: Bend portion (A) of the float to achieve a 0.386 in. (9.8mm) gap


Lift up the float and check the clearance between the air horn and the float bottom. A Vernier caliper works well for this measurement. The clearance should be 48mm (1.89 inches)

If the clearance is not within specifications, adjust it by bending the lower float tab (B).


Fig. 10: Bend portion (B) of the float to set 1.89 in. (48mm) of clearance between the air horn and the float bottom

There is an interesting alternative to rebuilding your Aisan: a Weber conversion. Of those who have taken this route, some are satisfied and some dissatisfied. Apparently they are tough to tune. Cost is about $300, but once you get it properly tuned, you have a brand-new carburetor that will likely help your truck to run right.

There are two Weber carbs that can work well with a stock 22R. Both are progressive 2-barrel carbs. Progressive meaning the primary barrel opens first, and the secondary opens when you stand on the throttle a bit, giving extra cfm. The first carb is the 32/36DGEV (32 mm primary bore/36mm secondary) and the other is the 34DGEC which has 34mm primary and 34mm secondary.

The 32/36 gives better mileage, but if you have a heavy foot, not so much. Power is probably similar or a bit better than the Aisan, but the two carbs have nearly identical cfm. The 34/34 is a bit newer design, and gives more pedal response than the 32/36. Supposedly because the primary is larger, the secondary doesn't tend to open as frequently as with the 32/36. It's supposed to have better driveability. The cfm of both Webers and the Aisan appear nearly identical.

There is a 38/38 Weber available but it would be pointless to put that on a stock motor.

Pros of the Webers include:
- New carb, runs better than a raggedy stock
- Better gas mileage (most likely with the 32/36 - so long as you don't have a lead foot but there are reports of slightly better mileage with the 34/34 too.)
- More power (how much is hotly debated)
- Relatively easy and cheap to re-jet to adapt to higher elevations vs. nearly impossible rejet of the Aisan. I think almost everyone at 5000' elevation or more would do better with a properly-jetted Weber.
- You replace the gangly air cleaner with a much more compact one

Cons:
- Most of the 32/36 Webers conversion kits include a 2 piece adapter plate that is notorious for leaking (but Summit Racing sells a one-piece adapter)
- In some cases you have to go through a painful period of finding the right size jets and tuning it properly
- Some people have trouble with flooding - solution seems to be adjusting the fuel bowl float height.
- Some people claim the stock fuel pump has too much pressure and that makes the weber run rich, and therefore the solution is to buy an electric fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator, obviously adding to the $$ and hassle. Other people say the stock pump works fine.
- Some people report it doesn't do well on inclines, especially on side hills. Other owners report it works fine on hills.

Some Weber links (by the way if you decide to try a Weber conversion I've read not such good things about jtoutfitters.com (on ebay as joetlc):
89 Pick Up - Life Of Carb??
http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum....php?p=1439678
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=343862
http://www.yotatech.com/f114/weber-carb-137171/
http://www.yotatech.com/f123/weber-one-133331/
22r Aftermarket Carbs
http://www.webercarbsdirect.com/Webe...ions_s/219.htm
http://www.webercarbsdirect.com/category_s/404.htm
http://redlineweber.com/html/Tech/Table_of_contents.htm
http://www.lceperformance.com/Carbur...ts-s/13411.htm
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=250327547414
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TOYOT...mZ150310634628
http://www.webercarbsdirect.com/category_s/404.htm
http://www.yotatech.com/f116/best-we...pickup-159117/
A one-piece adapter for the 32/36:
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsea...115+4294791613

Seems like it might be worth giving the Aisan rebuild a try. At lower elevations the Webers don't seem to offer that much over a properly functioning Aisan.

Hope you'll keep us posted on your progress.
.

Last edited by sb5walker; 01-05-2010 at 01:43 PM.
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#11 Old 12-17-2008, 06:38 PM
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would all the same that was mentioned apply to Fuel Injectred 22RE Im having the same hesitation problem when getting on the highway or making turns after first start up
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#12 Old 12-17-2008, 06:40 PM
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Wow! You have done a lot of research- thanks! You've actually provided me with information and resources for other upcoming projects, most notably to get the '71 Hilux back on the road. The stock carburetor is shot, and I am strongly leaning toward replacing it with a Weber. I drove a Dodge D50 a while back that had an aftermarket Weber, and I was impressed with its performance.

Altitude here is between 700 and 2000 feet, I might occasionally hit 5000 feet but don't anticipate it. I think I'll look into the rebuild if the cleaning doesn't work- I've been happy with the performance so far.

1990 Toyota Pickup, 2wd, 4-spd, reg. cab (sold!)
1998 Toyota Camry, 4cyl auto
1971 Toyota Hilux, 4cyl, 4spd, 4wd, 4 tires...
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#13 Old 12-18-2008, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by YOTA 1 View Post
would all the same that was mentioned apply to Fuel Injectred 22RE Im having the same hesitation problem when getting on the highway or making turns after first start up
The 22RE, being fuel injected, has a different set of issues and possible causes of hesitation. If you do a search on 22RE hesitation you'll find several excellent threads on the topic. If none of them help you, don't 'hesitate' to post a new thread!
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#14 Old 12-18-2008, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadioFlyer90 View Post
Wow! You have done a lot of research- thanks! You've actually provided me with information and resources for other upcoming projects, most notably to get the '71 Hilux back on the road. The stock carburetor is shot, and I am strongly leaning toward replacing it with a Weber. I drove a Dodge D50 a while back that had an aftermarket Weber, and I was impressed with its performance.

Altitude here is between 700 and 2000 feet, I might occasionally hit 5000 feet but don't anticipate it. I think I'll look into the rebuild if the cleaning doesn't work- I've been happy with the performance so far.
You're welcome. Yeah, I'm a big fan of Aisin stuff. They're some clever folks over there across the pond, and they build stuff to last. And, trying a rebuild will only set you back $60 or so. I notice from the pics the NAPA kits appear to come with both the primary & secondary acceleration diaphragms, as well as, seemingly, the mounting gaskets.

71 Hilux, hmm? I'll bet there's a BIG difference in CFM between the stock carb and almost any Weber - lot's of potential power to gain there. That sounds like a fun project.
Quote:
I drove a Dodge D50 a while back
Eeeek - Mitsasushi (holds fingers up in sign of the cross) Bad memories of a Galant Sigma.
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#15 Old 12-22-2008, 07:07 PM
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Hi again! Still no recurrence of the hesitation. Either the problem is tied into the weather (still very cold and now buried in snow!) or there was some foreign matter (well, probably domestic matter since it is a foreign truck) in the carburetor that needed to be sucked through. I put some old tire chains on and have been chugging around in snow deep enough to leave occasional bumper marks with no problem and the engine behaving perfectly. I wish I had the Hilux going though, it is a lot of fun in the snow. The old 8R-C has the right balance of power- enough to keep moving but not so much that the tires were always breaking loose. Most of the time it was not even necessary to engage the 4 wheel drive.

Before rebuild
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...r90/Toyota.jpg

After rebuild (sorry about the quality- cheap camera)
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...0/toyota-1.jpg

1990 Toyota Pickup, 2wd, 4-spd, reg. cab (sold!)
1998 Toyota Camry, 4cyl auto
1971 Toyota Hilux, 4cyl, 4spd, 4wd, 4 tires...
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