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High idle?

9K views 44 replies 4 participants last post by  IronNam 
#1 ·
I just read the FAQ sticky and didn't see my exact problem.
When I start the truck cold It idles at about 700 for 30 seconds then rises quickly to about 2500. After either waiting ten minutes or driving for a few minutes it goes back to about 700 and chills.
No jumping, or anything weird when I apply the brakes.

When I bought it it had a sticky throttle, so I cleaned it out and played with the idle screw and the sticky throttle went away. I've also recently replaced the air filter and the oil is fairly new.

I'm thinking maybe vacuum leak? But I dunno how to check for those. Maybe spark plugs, but I don't know how they would affect the idle.
 
#2 ·
What engine?
What Year?
Does it have A/C?
 
#4 · (Edited)
Hm. No A/C - there goes that easy guess, lol. I'm assuming the truck doesn't have cruise. The mystery is the change to high and then back to low. I don't know of something that could cause a vacuum leak to appear, and then disappear with such regularity, other than the A/C vsv which you don't have. So that probably leaves something in the engine control system.

There is a little more diagnostic work you could do like look at the plugs and see if they are clean - light gray/tan deposits - or are black with excess carbon from running too rich. I'm guessing you'll find the latter.

It would also be very helpful to see if your computer has stored any codes. It doesn't always illuminate the check engine light when it traps a code. Instructions are in the fsm - google 1993 toyota pickup service manual if you don't have one. Check the ENGINE - MFI SYSTEM - DIAGNOSTICS section. Also, it would be interesting to watch the timing just before the increase in rpms and just before the decrease. (This would be done with the jumper not attached).

It seems like the problem comes when the ecu is in open loop (engine coolant temp sensor telling ecu the engine is not yet warm). When the ect sends the hot engine signal, the ecu starts listening to the O2 sensor and adjusts the mixture (or possibly the timing). That could point to the tps (throttle position sensor) or vafm (volume air flow meter). Specs for checking those are in the fsm in the ENGINE - MFI SYSTEM - THROTTLE BODY and the ENGINE - MFI SYSTEM - VAF METER sections. While you're at it check the ect too, it's in the ENGINE - MFI SYSTEM - ECT SENSOR section. To check the ect & vafm you just need to check ohms - any multimeter should do. For the tps you need to check ohms and you'll need a feeler gauge to check the idle settings.

How hot does the temp gauge get at the rpm-up and rpm-down events? When's the last time you changed the thermostat? The 22re gurus around here suggest using a 180 degree toyota stat. That's toyota part # 90916-03083 One of the other members on the forum here - verlaryder - says:
Tell the dealer you want that part number and don't tell him the year and engine of your truck or else he will give you a different thermostat. With the 90916-03083 (it's a 180 degree stat that the factory used in the '85 turbocharged 22R)

If the dealer gives you a bad time for not identifying your vehicle then lie to him and say you have a "1985 22R-TE" (turbocharged) model.
Also, make sure the coolant level is up to full.

If you don't find a bad sensor, let us know the plug condition, timing advance during the rpm shifts, and whatever codes you find.
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#5 · (Edited)
Lots of good stuff there; thanks!
No cruise either. It has always run cool. When I bought it I thought that the t-stat was stuck open; so I replaced it. I know I got one that would open a little earlier, but can't remember just how much earlier. I can't tell a difference in the temp gauge; it's too damn cold in Wisconsin. I did remove the fan clutch and hadn't noticed a change their either; I don't do any stop and go traffic though.
And the temp gauge barely gets an 1/8th of the way up
 
#6 ·
If your thermostat runs the motor TOO cold, it's possible the ECT never tells the ecu the motor's at operating temp. This would keep it in open loop and it would never run right. This could also happen if the ect is a little off, and it could also happen when you run the heater in the truck, as that acts like a second radiator (especially in a Wisconsin winter, good grief!) and that could cool the coolant and cause the thermostat to close and the ECT to send a cold engine signal, causing open loop again. I'd get the recommended toyota stat and give it a try. Of course don't forget the thermostat gasket.

Let us know if any codes and what the plugs look like.
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#9 ·
Depends on how worn and dirty the plugs are, whether they'll clean up ok. Carb cleaner would probably work better than gas. Getting some toluene from a paint or hardware store might work ok too. Be sure to gap them properly.

But plugs are cheap - especially the ones that work best in your engine, the Denso W16EXR-U Less than $2 apiece at Autozone. I'd get new ones if you're serious about getting your motor running right. Your distributor cap and rotor should be clean and shiny, too. The Denso rotors are the best available; the Denso cap has aluminum contacts that corrode too quickly for my liking, at least the one for my 3VZE does. Perhaps you could get a better one from a local parts store. Don't get a cheap one. While you're there, pick up a decent air filter too, if you haven't changed that in a while.

Let us know what the plugs look like. And how 'bout those codes?
.
 
#10 · (Edited)
I'm a little confused on how to check the codes. Every project I tackle seems to be new to me. There are very few things that I have done more than once. The cars I buy seem to always have different problems.

I did just replace the air filter. Thanks for the info about the cap and rotor too. I'm gonna go pull those plugs now.

EDIT: I can check the ECT and MAF with the engine off right? Does the key even need to be in the 'on' position?

EDITX2: The ECT is within spec and the MAF has only failed one test. Won't read at all. Guess I'm in the market for one of those. I cleaned it not long ago, so I don't think it'll help if I do.

Can't find my spark plug sockets. What size is it? 3/4? Looks like I may need something extra deep?
 
#11 ·
The plugs on my 3VZE are 5/8" (strange, since almost everything else is metric). It's not extra deep - a standard 5/8 plug socket works fine. I don't know if the 22RE plugs are the same, but probably they are.

Yeah, the routine to read the codes is a bit strange and confusing. On the plus side, at least there IS a way to read the codes without an engine analyzer. The directions for doing it are in the fsm in the ENGINE - MFI SYSTEM - DIAGNOSTICS section. If you have questions about it, just ask.

Yes, you do the tests on the tps, vafm & ect sensors with ignition off. For the O2 sensor the motor needs to be running. You can test the parts even when they're off the motor (except for the O2 sensor).

Just for curiosity's sake, what test failed on the VAFM? You're right that if it's bad it will have to be replaced. They're expensive, though, so make sure of it before handing over the $$. Cheapest source will be a junkyard, but make sure to get a part with 150k miles or less, and make sure it isn't corroded. Junkyards in Southern CA, AZ, NM & TX are good bets. There is a portal to hundreds of yards on the net: http://car-part.com

I think you'll still need a new stat.
.
 
#13 ·
E2 - VS fully open. It was reading something like 236 thousand.
Lol. Yeah, it does sound like you need a new one. Engine would never run right with that value.

I have to pick up some feelers.
Feeler gauges usually look like this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Starrett-66-Thickness-0015-Inch-025-Inch/dp/B0006J4DJE/

But that's a Starrett, a machinists tool, and it's pricey. You could find a decent one at Sears or a hardware store for less. Auto parts stores sell them too, but those are probably cheap made-in-china ones. Still, they probably would work.

How do I test the o2 sensor? Do I have to splice the wires?
You test the resistance by pulling the connector at the sensor and reading across two of the terminals (shown in the manual). The catch is, the spec is for a sensor at 68 degrees F. So if you can't park your truck in a heated garage, you'll have to pull the sensor and bring it inside and let it sit long enough to warm up.

The voltmeter measurements are made with the motor running and sensor plugged in. You take the readings off two terminals in the gray diagnostic check connector on the passenger inner fender in the engine compartment as shown in the fsm. You also have to jump two terminals in the connector.

I don't think the O2 sensor would cause your idle changes, but it's still good to check. Course, if it has over 90k miles, you should probably just replace it.
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#14 ·
So the o2 sensor is just as easy to check as the ect sensor; resistance wise. Cool. But I'm sure it's rusted on there; removal will be the fun part.

I was lucky enough to find a couple mafs at a junk yard 30 or so miles away. For 40 bucks a piece. I might just snag em both.
 
#15 ·
So the o2 sensor is just as easy to check as the ect sensor; resistance wise. Cool. But I'm sure it's rusted on there; removal will be the fun part.
Well if you don't want to remove it you can always drive it to Florida and measure it there, lol.

Seriously if it's been on there a long time you might could use a new one. Don't forget the gasket for that, too.

For getting it off, spray the rusted studs with PB Blaster and clean up the threads with a wire brush. Don't use too much of the Blaster - I don't know how your cat would like it.

The resistance is one test but the more important test is looking for pulses in voltage at the gray diagnostic check connector. You're looking for 6 or more tweaks of the voltage every 10 seconds. Even this is NOT a guarantee the sensor is working properly - that's why they should be replaced at least every 90k miles.

I was lucky enough to find a couple mafs at a junk yard 30 or so miles away. For 40 bucks a piece. I might just snag em both.
Nice! Yeah, if you don't use the other one you can always sell it. Test them both and pick the one with the resistance values closest to spec. Make sure the resistance between E2 & VS changes smoothly "in a wave pattern" without any jumps or spikes as you slowly open the vane. Check the resistance of the temp sensor (E2 & VHA) both outdoors and indoors to make sure it's working right.
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#17 ·
Get your codes first! Pulling the EFI relay will probably clear 'em.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Got the new to me maf today. Checked the cap and rotor and they look fine. There is a little dirt in the distributor though. Would maf cleaner be safe to spray in there?
The o2 sensor is rusted on, well sorta. one of the nuts is rusted away and the other doesn't resemble a nut anymore. I'm thinking chisel it away, but I had to call it a day for fear of losing my fingers.

EDIT: I forgot to add that I must have the 180* t-stat because that's all they sell at my local autozone.

Is there a cheaper alternative to the 120 dollar o2 sensor?
 
#20 ·
Got the new to me maf today. Checked the cap and rotor and they look fine. There is a little dirt in the distributor though. Would maf cleaner be safe to spray in there?
The o2 sensor is rusted on, well sorta. one of the nuts is rusted away and the other doesn't resemble a nut anymore. I'm thinking chisel it away, but I had to call it a day for fear of losing my fingers.
Sounds like that O2 sensor definitely needs replacing.

No, I wouldn't spray anything into the distributor - it will probably drain down into the head, or just as bad, wash crap into the distributor bearing. A little dirt in there probably won't make much difference, so long as the clearance between the signal rotor and the signal coil projections are in spec and the resistance of the signal coil is also in spec. Check the IGNITION - ON VEHICLE INSPECTION section of the fsm. If it has a lot of loose dirt in there, remove the distributor and try to brush it out while holding it upside down. An alternative is to vacuum it out, but be sure to ground the vacuum hose to the metal of the engine before you get it near the distributor and keep it grounded as you vacuum to avoid destroying something (like the ecu) with a static discharge.
 
#22 · (Edited)
I would get the sensor that's specifically for the truck. The toyota sensor is a Denso, and you can get those from Rock Auto for $82 plus shipping:
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1277939,pgname,Emission,partGroup,19
But before spending the money, you might want to check yours, unless you know it has been on there more than 90k miles, in which case, best just to replace.

Don't forget the gasket:
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1277939,parttype,10770,partGroup,19

While you're ordering parts, Beck/Arnley makes a 180 degree "fail safe" thermostat that would probably work well with your motor. Beck/Arnley sells good parts - most of them are made in Japan. It's $6.26:
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1277939,pgname,Cooling+System,partGroup,16
Get the BECK/ARNLEY Part # 1435689 (If you have the $$, getting a 180 degree stat from the dealer would be the safest choice, but the Beck/Arnley will probably work fine.)

And again, the gasket(s):
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1277939,parttype,2182,partGroup,16
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1277939,parttype,2136,partGroup,16

And, 4 of the DENSO Part # 3031 {Standard #W16EXRU} plugs ($1.47 ea):
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1277939,pgname,Ignition,partGroup,25

If you want a cap & rotor both the Beck/Arnley and Japanese brands look of good quality:
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1277939,pgname,Ignition,partGroup,25

A Q-tip would probably work. I'd use rubbing alcohol, since that will not hurt any of the electronics.

Hopefully, between the vafm and these parts you'll get your idle problem fixed. But they're all good tune-up parts, and if it has been a while, it will be good to get them on there anyway.
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#24 ·
A fail-safe has something like a fusible link that melts if the engine overheads (perhaps due to a failure of the normal thermostat element) and another spring forces the thermostat into the open position. Or at least that's the theory.

All these many times of mentioning the 180 degree stat and you already have one? Okay, it should be fine.
 
#25 ·
My bad. I believe I edited my post yesterday while you were responding. When I was at autozone I double checked and they only have the 180 in stock; so I must have bought the 180.

I went for a drive yesterday and when I started the truck it acted like it wanted to idle up but didn't! It was a little weird. Getting closer.

That probably is the factory o2 sensor being as it's so rusty.

I bought a 5/8s socket yesterday, but that's not it either. Must be 7/8s
 
#26 ·
Plug size is 13/16ths. And those plugs were white; barely an electrode left as well. I broke the last plug wire, so I gotta wait for my buddy to take me to auto zone. Should have just got wires when I ordered all that other stuff from rock auto.

got the o2 sensor off and it's white as well. Didn't need to order the gasket though; the new sensor came with one. Gotta get some new nuts and I should be golden!
 
#27 ·
Hm. Sounds like it was running really lean, and I wonder about the timing. It's good you're addressing the problem - your motor may have been running hot enough to put the exhaust valves at risk of burning.

Congrats on getting that sensor off - that sounded like one of those jobs that always spices up my vocabulary. Glad to hear you're making progress. It should run a lot better with the new sensor and plugs. You sure the distributor cap contacts are not eroded on the inside? My truck hates eroded caps, is why I ask.

Two things about the new o2 sensor nuts - get stainless, and use an anti-seize compound on the studs. Be VERY careful not to get any of it on the sensor part of the o2 sensor, though, as it will probably kill it. The anti-seize compound is messy stuff and a little goes a long way, but it works great, and should provide some protection against corrosion. If you really want to stop the rust, hit them with a good rust converter preferably a day before mounting the sensor, and then use the anti-seize also. You'll have to wire brush and degrease the studs before treating.

The best rust converters have tannic acid between 5 and 20 percent. Another very good compound to have in addition is butoxyethanol. I don't like the plastic resin ones - seems there are many of those on the market these days. So I avoid any product with vinyl, acrylate, anything like that. Those coat the "treated" rust with a plastic coating, and I find the rust continues underneath. Also I think those would do poorly on hot metal. Likewise I avoid ones containing petroleum products. Some converters use other acids for the rust converting - of those, phosphoric works ok, but tannic is better. I'd avoid the rest. If your auto parts stores are filled with plastic based converters, try a paint or hardware store. Most Ace Hardware stores can look up the MSDS on any chemical they sell and tell you the ingredients and percents. Benjamin Moore Rust Converter Coating M82 is excellent, but might be too "thick" for use on threads.

I don't know about the wires on the 22re, but on the 3vze the toyota wires are light-years better than the aftermarkets. They fit like a glove, include all the keepers, and are excellent quality. One of the members here says the NAPA Belden cables are good too. Get some dielectric grease and lightly apply a thin film to just the white insulator of the plugs if you don't want the new plug wires to stick to them.

Once you get the sensor, plugs and wires on there, pull the EFI fuse for 15 seconds or so (with the ignition OFF), then replace. That resets the computer. Start it and let it warm up and then set the idle as close to 750 as you can, by adjusting the air bypass screw on the throttle body.

Then set the timing. For that, make sure you have the TE1 and E1 terminals in the gray plastic check connector jumped with a piece of stiff wire or even a paperclip, and then set timing to 5 degrees BTDC.

It may take a day or two of driving before the computer gets itself recalibrated. You may have to adjust the idle speed again - I set mine to where it seems comfortable; I don't worry too much about what speed it is.

Anyway, good luck, and let us know how you make out.
.
 
#28 · (Edited)
A little update: After putting on about 500 miles I'm still running lean and I got 19mpg hwy... horrible. I pulled the plugs and they're starting to look like they old ones. I'm also consuming oil. I don't see any clouds of blue though.
My idle issue is still there, but It hasn't been as cold lately so it's not bad. It's surging (i think that's the correct term) too. When I let off throttle it rapidly drops revs.

I still don't understand how to check codes.

I'm gonna check the TPS now.

TPS is good
 
#29 · (Edited)
Damn, still running lean - drag. Hang in there, there's plenty left to check(!)

A few questions-

* When you tested the Engine Cooling temp sensor, did you test it when the motor was hot? What was the value? (Reason for asking: you said the engine temp gauge "barely gets an 1/8th of the way up" I'm concerned the ecu may not consider the motor to have reached operating temp, in which case it would be running in open loop and not using the O2 sensor to calibrate mixture. There is a test to see if the ecu is running in open loop - it requires a voltmeter to check, let's hold off on that for the time being, but please check the resistance of the ECT when engine is hot if you haven't already.

* Did you set the timing after installing the new sensor & plugs? Did you jump the terminals in the check connector while doing that, and what was the timing when you first looked at it?

* Did the IDL & E2 terminals of the TPS have continuity when the throttle was closed (idle position?) What were the throttle closed and throttle open values of VTA & E2?

* Does your motor have sounds in the front of the motor when just started that sound like shaking marbles in a tin can?

* Does your motor ever ping?


Okay, a few things to check:

TROUBLE CODES:
I know this is a bugaboo, but we're working in the dark and at this point it could save a lot of blind guessing if we knew what the computer thinks. Even if it has no codes, that in itself is useful to know.

The procedure is very simple, but sometimes the flashes are a little hard to count, is all. First, make sure your check engine light works: it should come on when you turn on the ignition but before you start the motor. If that light doesn't work, you would have to check the bulb if you wanted to retrieve the codes, unless there's a scanner/code reader that a shop could use, but I don't know if there's a place to hook one up.

Assuming the check engine light works, all you have to do to get the codes flashing is:
- Turn the ignition on but don't start the engine. Turn off fan or any other accessories.
- Jump terminals TE1 and E1 in the check connector with a paperclip.
- Back in the cab, leave foot off the gas pedal as it will only work with TPS signaling the idle position, but put the transmission in neutral.
- Count the little flashes of the check engine light.

If there are no codes, the check engine light will just continuously flash twice a second. If there are codes, they are all two digits. It will flash however many times for the first digit, then there will be a 1.5 second pause, then it will flash for the second digit. So code 12 would be: a flash, followed by a 1.5 sec. pause, followed by two flashes. It's that simple.

There could be 2 or more codes, however. There's a 2.5 second pause between each code. After all the codes have been "flashed", there is a 4.5 second pause. Then it gives all the codes over again. It will continue looping through all the codes as long as the ignition is on and TE1 and E1 are jumped. For this reason, wait for the 4.5 second pause before starting your counting so you're sure you're starting on the first code.

If you have trouble counting all the flashes, and some people do, ask a friend or family member. They don't have to know anything about cars, it just seems to come naturally for some people.

EGR:
One possible cause of a motor running hot is a failed EGR. That's the exhaust gas recirculation valve that is a metal disk at the back of the valve cover on the intake side. It has one vacuum tube attached to the top, and out of the side of it comes a (rusty) steel pipe that is bolted to the back side of the plenum. If you look below it, there's another rusty pipe that leads back to the exhaust manifold.

The engine adds exhaust gas into the intake for several reasons. One is to cool the cylinders. Seems strange, but it does it by diluting the mixture some, which lowers the combustion temperature. That's for keeping NOx emissions down, but it also helps the motor avoid pinging. So if the EGR never opens, the cyls could get hot. The EGR actually improves the efficiency/gas mileage of the motor a little bit.

On the other hand, if the EGR is always open, that could cause surging, and possibly a lean condition, but it would also cause the motor to stumble and hesitate, probably pretty badly.

To check it, an easy way is to let the motor reach operating temp, then hold the rpms up into the middle rpm range, around 2000-3000, and (carefully!) see if the EGR pipe bolted to the back of the plenum is hot. Next test, pull the vacuum tube from the top of the EGR valve (see the fsm for diagrams to identify it - ENGINE/Emission Control System--Layout--Fed and Can) and test with your finger to see if the tube has vacuum. That tube SHOULD have vacuum on a hot motor when revs are 2-3k, and it should NOT have vacuum at idle.

VACUUM LEAKS:
Various ways of checking:
- Propane torch: open it without lighting it, and wave it around all the vacuum hoses, as well as all the joints around the intake, and listen for an increase in idle speed.
- Starting fluid: same as the propane torch
- Brake cleaner - I've heard this will actually cause a decrease in idle speed, but I've never tried it.


There's another test that would be great, namely a fuel pressure test, since low fuel pressure could cause a lean condition. But you need a fuel pressure gauge with the right fitting to check it, so unless you have one, you'll need to get a shop or a techie friend to do that for you. You could put that one off until we work the above issues.

I know it must be frustrating to still be having trouble after so much work, but hang in there! We will eventually find the trouble(s), and by the end of all this checking, you're going to know a hell of a lot more about your motor than you did, and that may come in useful in the future.

Note to other forum members, especially 22RE owners: please feel free to chime in here with ideas, or if I've gotten something wrong, or if I'm missing something, lol !
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#30 ·
Let me start by saying thank you.

I tested the ECT when hot and cold and it checked out. Still funny that my truck runs so cool, even without the fan clutch. But I was sure to check when It was cool and after a long drive for the hot part.

I don't know how to set timing. I need a timing light right?

I don't remember the specs for the TPS, but I know they checked out, I can check them again if needed.

You made it clear how to check for codes. I just gotta find a paper clip, lol. Thanks!

So not much left then. Cool. Have I possibly ruined my new O2 sensor or plugs because of the leaness they have been through?
I don't mind replacing plugs again, but that o2 is kinda pricey.
 
#31 · (Edited)
You're welcome. It's fun for me to help folks get their motors running well, and a satisfying feeling when that actually happens. I just hope we do eventually find the cause of the idle surge and lean running, lol. But, you have already identified a bad vafm, O2 sensor, and plugs, and there's no way the engine would run right without them, so that's something. On older engines there are often multiple problems and you just have to track them all down. It took me 11 years to find the cause of the last annoying problem on my 3VZE - pinging - and that was totally by accident when I replaced the distributor for another reason. (Hopefully it won't take us that long.) :eek:

On the ECT, I actually wanted to know what temp it was reporting, since I think the ECU is looking for around 130 degrees F before it goes into closed loop. It would be good to know that value, if possible. Also that might tell us whether your temp gauge is inaccurate, and whether the thermostat is running the motor too cool.

On the TPS, I recently found what appears to be a major typo in the 93 fsm for the throttle closed value of VTA and E2: The 93 fsm says it should be from 0.47k – 8.1k ohms. But my 89 manual says the upper value should be 0.8k - a big difference. I think it's the .8 that is the right value.

And I wanted to make sure that IDL-E2 have continuity when the throttle is closed since that is your idle signal, and it needs to be working in order to read your codes. (Also on any engine that is having idle problems, you want to make sure that the TPS is telling the computer the throttle is at idle, otherwise the computer pours in too much fuel.)

Timing. Yup. Gotta have a timing light to set the timing. Sears carries decent ones, so will most auto parts stores, there are always a bunch on ebay, and amazon carries a bunch, and you might be able to borrow one - possibly even from an Autozone. You don't need a fancy one, so long as it has an "inductive" pick-up, you should be fine. You jump TE1 and E1 in the check connector, verify that the engine is idling as close as possible to 750 rpm, attach the alligator clips of the timing light to your battery posts, and clip the inductive pick-up around the #1 spark plug wire, and: Voila - strobe light flashes that you point at the timing marks. You'll see the timing mark on the crank pully (which you already checked to be sure it's clearly visible), and you rotate the distributor (which you've already loosened) until the crank pulley timing mark is pointing to the "5" timing mark, then tighten the distributor and recheck the timing. The main thing to watch for is that you don't let any of those wires, loose clothing or body parts get tangled around the fan(!)

If the timing is way too advanced, that alone could be your problem.

You say 'not much left then' but you haven't tried finding a vacuum leak yet - and that is usually a challenge, to say the least. Nor have we verified closed loop operation with a voltmeter, nor worked out what mixture correction value the computer is using. And we haven't gotten to the compression test or changing the fuel filter yet, lol ! I don't want to discourage, but I don't want to mislead, either. Of course some of that work may not be needed if we get lucky.

Your O2 sensor won't be bothered by lean at all, but it would eventually get gunked up if the motor runs too rich for an extended period of time. And if you allow practically anything silicone get sucked into the intake, that could ruin it pretty quickly. Also some carb- or throttle body cleaners can ruin it or gum it up. Look for "sensor safe" on any product that will be going into the cylinders.

I can't imagine the plugs have been hurt in 500 miles - they normally last 30 thousand. If they do look a little burnt, you might check the gap with that feeler gauge - the gap specs will be in the Ignition Service Specifications section. If it's too big, you have an opportunity of learning the art of bending the ground electrode (the little L-shaped metal bar at the bottom.)
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#32 · (Edited)
I have a 22re as well, which does the exact same thing BUT I have an A/C and cruise so I was curious what the primary route is for a 22re w/A/C?
AND
I was wondering if the timing, you mentioned here, would do anything with me hearing the antifreeze bubbling when I shut the motor off?

Thanks, the info. you have posted on here is excellent, I'm glad I saw this post!
 
#33 · (Edited)
When you ask for the "primary route" for the 22re w/AC I'm a bit confused as to what you're asking, but the reason I mentioned it to 'pickup' is that there is an A/C VSV (vacuum solenoid valve) that feeds a little more air into the intake to bump up the idle speed when the A/C compressor is on. Cruise control, I mentioned just to eliminate it as a possible cause for the idle surge.

I wouldn't think timing would be linked to bubbling coolant (anything's possible, I 'spose). That could be a cause for concern, though. Best to get that in it's own thread so we won't confuse the issues in this already long thread. In your first post, describe what it's doing as best you can, including:

* Where is the bubbling coming from: the heater core, engine, radiator, overflow reservoir, or somewhere else? Is the sound more a bubbling sound or gurgling? (If it's the reservoir it could be as simple as a new radiator pressure cap.)

* Is your engine losing coolant?

* What's your temp gauge reading when the engine is at operating temp, and have you had any overheating problems?

* When's the last time the thermostat was replaced, and do you know whether it's a 180 or 192 degree stat?

* What kind of coolant is in there (if you don't know, what color is it) and how long has it been since the coolant was changed? Also what was the mix ratio and was tap or distilled water used.

* How's the motor running otherwise? Symptoms?

* What you have tried so far to fix it if anything.

* And be sure to give your truck year, type, engine and miles.

We'll be watching for that.
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#34 ·
Update:
ECU states 'all clear'
PCV valve is good.
Timing is spot on.
Seafoamed it twice and that didn't change a thing.

Gonna try to find some time tomorrow and check the EGR.
If it's bad can I just clean it with some brake clean?

My mechanic also checked my plugs and stated: "signs of detonation"
 
#37 ·
Good idea to check the EGR. Since the thermostat is not too hot, and timing is good, detonation may be due to bad EGR valve. Also, if not working, it could cause hot combustion temps and poor gas mileage.

On a hot motor at 2500 rpm, EGR valve should be open, and the rusty EGR pipe that goes into the aluminum plenum (intake) should be very warm or even hot. Also at 2500 rpm, when you pull the vacuum hose off the EGR valve and test the end of the hose with your finger, there should be vacuum.

If pipe is not very warm, and there is NO vacuum, then either the EGR Vacuum Modulator is bad, or the TVV is bad. The first is a little plastic and aluminum disk with a few vacuum hoses attached. It's near the EGR valve. The TVV is a "Thermo Vacuum Valve" (or something like that). It is screwed into a coolant pipe just below and to the right of the throttle body as you're looking toward the back of the truck. It is just a valve for vacuum that opens when the coolant gets hot. It prevents the EGR from opening when the motor is cold.

If pipe is not very warm, and there IS vacuum, the EGR valve is probably stuck closed. At that point, probably okay to try to clean it, but there is a diaphragm in the top that will not like solvent, and I don't know whether you would be able to get at the gunked up part without removing it from the engine. That, too, will be tough to remove because of all the rust. Another job for PB Blaster - a soak of at least a half to a full day may be required. Expect smoke when you next start the engine as the Blaster burns off.

Three things just to double check:

Does your idle do it's surging thing only when you have your foot on the brake?

Can you lower your idle to about 500 by screwing in the air bypass screw on the very top of your throttle body? Try it, and if you can get the idle to go that low, back the screw out until it's idling at 750.

And, is the back of your throttle valve dirty? (that's the butterfly inside the throttle body)

Because the Seafoam will have caused massive richness that the O2 sensor would have reported to the computer, go ahead and pull the EFI fuse with ignition switch OFF to reset the computer. But then, don't reset the computer again, since it will gradually calibrate the mixture based on signals from the O2 sensor over time, and it will develop an internal mixture correction value that will tell us whether the computer knows that the motor is running lean. That would be good to know.

If it seems the EGR is fine, then I think you'll have to look at your fuel pressure. I'm not sure whether a bad pressure regulator could cause surging, but it certainly could cause a lean condition.
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