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Old 05-26-2010, 12:43 PM   #1 (permalink)
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94 Toyota 22RE stalls/won't start

94 22re 150,000+ miles standard 4x4

last fall, the exhuast was replaced including the converter. after that, the problems started. basically what was happening is truck would not start all the time. if left unattended, then it would start and run fine. sometimes, it would start, run good, then sputter at times, stall, then all of a sudden run really good for a few days.

work done on it since the problems started:

new coil
new rotor button/dist cap
o2 sensor was new prior to the new exhaust
fuel filter changed twice


i spent a fair amount of time searching this forum and found many useful ideas and relayed them on my mechanic. but most of the problems i finding don't seem to be exactly like what i am having.

after all of this, if you go in the yard right now, its a 50/50 chance if the truck will start. if it does, it will run like a top. if it doesn't start, it seems to almost start, then just turn over and over. let it be for a while, and she might fire right up..

any ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks
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Old 05-26-2010, 07:06 PM   #2 (permalink)
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What did you replace the exhaust with?

you sure there are NO air leaks in the intake and exhaust?
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Old 05-26-2010, 07:30 PM   #3 (permalink)
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While I cant tell you exactly where the problem is, it sounds like you have an issue with the fuel getting inside to fire.
1. Have you checked the fuel pump and filter to make sure your getting plenty of fuel to the fuel rails?
2. If 1. is good, then check for spark (procedure).
3. If both those are good I would start looking at the injectors

Sounds like your cold start injector is giving it some fuel on certain occassions and it fires briefly and then dies. This might be caused by a bad ground to the injectors, theres a metal tab that is bolted to the intake manifold, its under the area of the throttlebody that provides a ground to all your injectors, I have heard of this getting loose or corroded and causing issues with the injectors.

This may not be the problem but we need to start diagnosing instead of just replacing parts so we can start elminating sections of the start circuit.

Good Luck
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Old 05-27-2010, 06:53 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayota View Post
What did you replace the exhaust with?

you sure there are NO air leaks in the intake and exhaust?
mechanic put on exhaust. not sure what. there shouldn't be any leaks, but will check.
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Old 05-27-2010, 06:57 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkp_80 View Post
While I cant tell you exactly where the problem is, it sounds like you have an issue with the fuel getting inside to fire.
1. Have you checked the fuel pump and filter to make sure your getting plenty of fuel to the fuel rails?
2. If 1. is good, then check for spark (procedure).
3. If both those are good I would start looking at the injectors

Sounds like your cold start injector is giving it some fuel on certain occassions and it fires briefly and then dies. This might be caused by a bad ground to the injectors, theres a metal tab that is bolted to the intake manifold, its under the area of the throttlebody that provides a ground to all your injectors, I have heard of this getting loose or corroded and causing issues with the injectors.

This may not be the problem but we need to start diagnosing instead of just replacing parts so we can start elminating sections of the start circuit.

Good Luck
Fuel pump is working and was checked. Fire should be good but will check again. Once it starts, it runs perfect. if it dies while running, it will not start back up until it cool down. if there was problems with the cold start injector, would it unable it to start when the engine is hot and had just been running?

thanks for the help!! hopefully we can figure this one out. this has been going on for 8 months.
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Old 05-27-2010, 01:06 PM   #6 (permalink)
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What do you mean by it runs like a top, do you mean it will run fine until you kill it, or is it just starting for a moment then dieing?

Try this when you can,

Try to start it normally, if it refuses, pull the tube off the throtle body and spray some starting fluid in there and then tighten it all back up (very important you seal it back up, if there are any leaks it wont start) and see if it fires or trys to start.

If it trys to start your not getting fuel inside the intake.

The cold start injector does check the coolant temperture, will have to look at the schematic to see whats going on, been awhile since I read it, but If I'm thinking right, it doesnt fire the cold start injector if the coolant is warmed to a certain range, so you dont flood your engine when its warm.
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Old 05-27-2010, 03:06 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkp_80 View Post
What do you mean by it runs like a top, do you mean it will run fine until you kill it, or is it just starting for a moment then dieing?

Try this when you can,

Try to start it normally, if it refuses, pull the tube off the throtle body and spray some starting fluid in there and then tighten it all back up (very important you seal it back up, if there are any leaks it wont start) and see if it fires or trys to start.

If it trys to start your not getting fuel inside the intake.

The cold start injector does check the coolant temperture, will have to look at the schematic to see whats going on, been awhile since I read it, but If I'm thinking right, it doesnt fire the cold start injector if the coolant is warmed to a certain range, so you dont flood your engine when its warm.
When it starts, it will run like it should.. sometimes it will sputter, and has stalled a couple times. i can shut it off when it is running fine and go to start again and it will not start. try again and again, then all of a sudden it will start run perfect.

I am leaning to a fuel issue myself. and i will also try the starting fluid and see what that does.
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Old 05-27-2010, 04:36 PM   #8 (permalink)
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pickup is at the garage now and will idle all day long. mechanic said he found the throttle body to be dirty and the tubes on top of the motor are leaking a little. these are definately issues, but haven't been taken care of yet.

he also said it appears the truck computer doesn't always respond back to his computer.
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Old 05-30-2010, 09:26 AM   #9 (permalink)
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well, we cleaned the throttle body, which was really dirty. pickup actually ran better and started everytime. it was idling at 500, but now its at 800/900 rpm. we had some rain last night and now its acting up again. wouldn't start, then would fire and run really rough. then wouldn't start. now if left be for 2-3 hrs chances are it will start right up and run good.

any other ideas wtf might be going on with this thing?
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Old 05-30-2010, 11:19 AM   #10 (permalink)
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ahh the rain problem. is your coil good? i dont remember if youd tried that or not. i had the same issue and it was my coil and i think the rough running was bit to do with 02 sensor or its harness. it seems every thred like this starts after something with the o2 sensor happens. even just replacing with a new one. idk though worth looking into maybe
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Old 05-30-2010, 11:26 AM   #11 (permalink)
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well, the coil was replaced a short time ago. but its a Napa one, so who knows. the O2 sens was replaced before this all started, so i'm wondering if that could be posing a problem.

other than the dist cap, can moisture affect it otherwise?
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Old 05-30-2010, 05:42 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Were your sparkplug wires replaced, if not I would recommend Factory wires, hard to beat, also a factory O2 sensor, those bosche sensors from the local parts stores are terrible.

The only instance I can ever recall of mine acting similar to yours was when the ECU got shorted out due to the O2 wireing harness getting ripped loose and melted to exhaust. Similar to yours it would idle fine, only way i could get it to drive was floor it, and it barely ran then, and was real rough.

Hopefully this isnt your problem, cause ECU prices arent cheap.
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Old 06-01-2010, 10:40 AM   #13 (permalink)
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well, last two days it won't start. tried squirting gas into intake and it would run on that for a few seconds then die. this is leading me to believe that its definately a problem with getting the fuel to the intake. before it died, it would start and run like it was new, then bang, won't start, and that where we are.

it also tripped the check engine light while spraying gas into intake. its at the mechanics again, maybe it will show a code.
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Old 06-01-2010, 06:45 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
tried squirting gas into intake and it would run on that for a few seconds then die.
This confirms for me its definitly fuel related, now if your 100% sure the fuel pump is pumping and and maintaing pressure at the fuel rails, and you said you replaced the fuel filter, then I would have to think its the injectors not firing or the injectors are clogged, I have seen a V6 once with every injector clogged. But since you say it does start and run ocasionally I will rule that out.
Next chance you get try to check that grounding tab I mentioned before, if it looses contact none of the injectors will fire. If you have a automotive stethoscope you can try to listen to see if the injector is clicking ( getting a signal to open).

Sometimes there are codes stored even though the check engine light isnt on, so always check there first and see if it has any codes stored, let me know what the mechanic says the code was.
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Old 06-01-2010, 07:32 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bkp_80 View Post
This confirms for me its definitly fuel related, now if your 100% sure the fuel pump is pumping and and maintaing pressure at the fuel rails, and you said you replaced the fuel filter, then I would have to think its the injectors not firing or the injectors are clogged, I have seen a V6 once with every injector clogged. But since you say it does start and run ocasionally I will rule that out.
Next chance you get try to check that grounding tab I mentioned before, if it looses contact none of the injectors will fire. If you have a automotive stethoscope you can try to listen to see if the injector is clicking ( getting a signal to open).

Sometimes there are codes stored even though the check engine light isnt on, so always check there first and see if it has any codes stored, let me know what the mechanic says the code was.

well, the mechanic checked the fuel pump by disconecting a line and turning it on and it pumped. i also want to say the pump is fine since the truck will run for 10-20 miles with good power like it should. i would also rule out clogged injectors since it ildes and pulls the proper rpms when needed.

we haven't checked the ground tab(as far as i know). it seems it could be something like that, since its so night and day on how it runs. perfect, then bang, dead. then if left alone, might be a day or two, it will start and run fine. its dead right now and has been for 3 days. mechanic might be able to take a look tomorrow. shouldn't his computer pickup any codes if a code was tripped?? or will his computer miss some?? i don't know what his computer is, but i do know its new.

thanks again for the help and suggestions. this one has a lot of people boggled.. haha
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