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Old 07-28-2011, 11:50 AM   #1 (permalink)
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90 toyota pickup missing, loss of power

hey i have a 90 single cab pickup with 22re. In the past month or so Ive noticed it seems to have random day where it decides to not run good. When it doesnt run good I can take off and after about 2k rpms it will loose power like its missing but i can push the gas pedal down some more, sometimes to the floor and it will quit and accelerate like normal. Ive already replaced the spark plugs, plug wires, distributer cap, rotor button. Im kind of a loss because I cant seem to figure it out. I checked the engine codes and it is throwing quite a few. the codes are 21, 25, 26, 52. From what Ive read its throwing oxygen sensor, air fuel lean, air fuel rich, and knock sensor signal (i think). I know the rich and lean code is from it not having a o2 sensor. I looked and a previous owner cut the wires somewhere in the harness so I will have to track those down so I can install another o2 sensor. I dont think its the codes thats causing it to act up because its always had those codes since I bought it and didnt start running bad till a month ago. any help or advice will be much appreciated. thanks
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Old 07-29-2011, 07:02 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I would most definetly replace the knock sensor, that can cause an engine to act different some engine run funny with a bad o2 sensor and some dont I would replace both and go from there, the knock sensor is on the passenger side about six inches from the oil filter towards the firewall.
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Old 07-29-2011, 08:46 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbaker View Post
hey i have a 90 single cab pickup with 22re. In the past month or so Ive noticed it seems to have random day where it decides to not run good. When it doesnt run good I can take off and after about 2k rpms it will loose power like its missing but i can push the gas pedal down some more, sometimes to the floor and it will quit and accelerate like normal. Ive already replaced the spark plugs, plug wires, distributer cap, rotor button. Im kind of a loss because I cant seem to figure it out. I checked the engine codes and it is throwing quite a few. the codes are 21, 25, 26, 52. From what Ive read its throwing oxygen sensor, air fuel lean, air fuel rich, and knock sensor signal (i think). I know the rich and lean code is from it not having a o2 sensor. I looked and a previous owner cut the wires somewhere in the harness so I will have to track those down so I can install another o2 sensor. I dont think its the codes thats causing it to act up because its always had those codes since I bought it and didnt start running bad till a month ago. any help or advice will be much appreciated. thanks
Sounds like a dead spot on your TPS to me... throttle position controls elements of fuel injection and ignition timing. If it thinks the throttle is wide when its closed or closed when its open, that will definitely cause mixture problems and can cause it to knock.
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Old 07-29-2011, 03:53 PM   #4 (permalink)
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ill replace the knock sensor first, i was thinking tps too but it only does it sometimes. I can go a couple days without it acting up then it can randomly start acting up. it seems to act up more whenever the roads are wet or its raining, maybe its a cause or im just going crazy hahah.
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Old 07-30-2011, 05:08 PM   #5 (permalink)
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If you are certain about the integrity of the ignition system, then it would follow that you likely have an issue with the fuel. A TPS issue could cause that kind of symptom but I would expect it more likely to be related to the Airflow meter (AFM). First, make sure there are no leaks in the intake tract. Under load the engine moves quite a bit and that could open up a leak and allow unmeasured air in, leaning out the mixture kill the power. Also, a bad spot in the AFM could result in the same thing.

Remove the AFM so that you can manipulate the flap door. connect it to the harness and measure the voltage between VS (Yellow/blue) wire and ground. You will have to backprobe the connector to get a "live" measurement. while measuring you can slowly open and close the flap door. The voltage should sweep smoothly as you move the door. I think on your '90 you will see the voltage start low (around a volt or so) and go high as you open the door. But It may be backwards on a model that early. the point is it should move smoothly with no spikes or dips.

the TPS can be tested the same way, backprobe at the VTA wire (pin 3 Yellow wire) open and close the throttle and look for the same smooth voltage progression.

When you test like this, you need to move the device very, very slowly so your meter doesn't miss any glitches.

Just to clarify,,,
I think on '89 and older, the AFMs worked backwards to the later '90 and newer models, But I might be wrong on the exact year.

Hope this helps.

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Old 07-30-2011, 05:57 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Vicoor's advice will probably lead you to the source of the new problem. But you might want to attend to the issues highlighted in the codes, maybe even before looking at VAFM and TPS.

The 22RE is a computer controlled, fuel injected motor. As in, the computer controls spark and fuel. And there are certain sensors which the computer absolutely needs in order to know when to spark, and when and how much to inject fuel. If the computer does not have reliable signals from all of the essential sensors, the motor has no hope whatsoever of running right. Those sensors are: 1. the pickup coil in the distrib, which lets the computer know the cam/crank position, 2. the TPS, to tell the computer how open the throttle is and when closed (idle), 3. the VAFM, which lets the computer know how much air is moving through the motor, and the air temp, and 4. the O2 sensor, without which the computer cannot calibrate fuel mixture. It's true that if there is no O2 sensor signal that the ecu will run in open loop mode in which the computer uses preset default values for fuel and spark timing, but that mode is designed for warmup and full throttle, and runs mixture too rich for normal operation. It will carbon-up the cyls and plugs and give very poor gas mileage. The final required sensor is the knock sensor, but only because the computer will throw a hissy fit if it's missing and refuse to run in closed loop.

So, first I would attend to the codes the computer is giving you. Get your O2 sensor wiring straightened out and make sure there's a good direct fit Denso or NTK (NGK) O2 sensor. The wiring connections have to be excellent, as the signal from the O2 sensor is a very low voltage and any resistance from a poor connection will cause the computer to believe the motor is running lean and it will inject too much fuel.

I recommend soldering any wire splices you have to make, coating the splice with dielectric grease, then sealing the area with heat shrink tubing (be sure to put the tubing over one of the wires b4 soldering, of course!). Here's a decent soldering tutorial:
http://www.mmxpress.com/technical/connections.htm

Also make sure the knock sensor wiring is in good shape. The knock sensors themselves are very reliable and so it's unlikely to be the problem. This thread may help with that:
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh...58#post2932258

After the code issues are all taken care of, then following Vicoors advice, as mentioned, will probably lead you to the cause of the new problems. Good luck!
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Old 07-31-2011, 08:40 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sb5walker View Post
Vicoor's advice will probably lead you to the source of the new problem. But you might want to attend to the issues highlighted in the codes, maybe even before looking at VAFM and TPS.

The 22RE is a computer controlled, fuel injected motor. As in, the computer controls spark and fuel. And there are certain sensors which the computer absolutely needs in order to know when to spark, and when and how much to inject fuel. If the computer does not have reliable signals from all of the essential sensors, the motor has no hope whatsoever of running right. Those sensors are: 1. the pickup coil in the distrib, which lets the computer know the cam/crank position, 2. the TPS, to tell the computer how open the throttle is and when closed (idle), 3. the VAFM, which lets the computer know how much air is moving through the motor, and the air temp, and 4. the O2 sensor, without which the computer cannot calibrate fuel mixture. It's true that if there is no O2 sensor signal that the ecu will run in open loop mode in which the computer uses preset default values for fuel and spark timing, but that mode is designed for warmup and full throttle, and runs mixture too rich for normal operation. It will carbon-up the cyls and plugs and give very poor gas mileage. The final required sensor is the knock sensor, but only because the computer will throw a hissy fit if it's missing and refuse to run in closed loop.

So, first I would attend to the codes the computer is giving you. Get your O2 sensor wiring straightened out and make sure there's a good direct fit Denso or NTK (NGK) O2 sensor. The wiring connections have to be excellent, as the signal from the O2 sensor is a very low voltage and any resistance from a poor connection will cause the computer to believe the motor is running lean and it will inject too much fuel.

I recommend soldering any wire splices you have to make, coating the splice with dielectric grease, then sealing the area with heat shrink tubing (be sure to put the tubing over one of the wires b4 soldering, of course!). Here's a decent soldering tutorial:
http://www.mmxpress.com/technical/connections.htm

Also make sure the knock sensor wiring is in good shape. The knock sensors themselves are very reliable and so it's unlikely to be the problem. This thread may help with that:
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh...58#post2932258

After the code issues are all taken care of, then following Vicoors advice, as mentioned, will probably lead you to the cause of the new problems. Good luck!
sb5walker is correct about fixing the known problems first.

It is concievable that an intermttent issue with the knock sensor circuit could lead to your problem. It may not have been as prevalent before. Keep in mind that the knock sensor and O2 sensor wires are shielded. It is possible that a wire that is lookikg good is actually shorted internally(can be intermittent). When testing these shielded cables you want to use the ohmmeter between the shielding and the signal wire and make sure there is no continuity. Then go around and give all the harnesses a good wiggle to make sure there is still no continuity. Also the shielding needs to be properly grounded at the ecm.

But I have to correct him on the order of importance of the inputs to the ecm.
1. engine speed/position (distributor pickup/s on your vehicle)
2. engine load (VAFM)
3. coolant temp
4. O2 sensor
5. air temp (sensor located in VAFM)
6. TPS
7. battery voltage correction. while this is seldom a problem worth consideration, the voltage availble to the injectors has a significant impact on how fast the injectors open and therefore how long they are actually open compared to the "commanded pulsewidth" if for some reason the injectors are not getting the same voltage that the ECM "sees" then this will throw off this final correction and the fuel mixture.

without the first three, the engine either will not run, or will run very poorly. the others are just trims to make it work better. and the O2 sensor should just provide feedback to fine tune the mixture for emissions (if everything else is working right).

The knock sensor provides feedback for ignition timing. If knock (preignition/detonation) is detected the ignition timing is retarded til it is relieved. This can pull the timing back quite a ways and really hamper output (power).

Whenever I advise somone on this forum about likely causes for a particular symptom, it is totally based on their description matching mine for that symptom. However I work on cars for a living and I have to say that when customers bring me their cars for diagnosis their description is usually lacking. Usually I need to experience the problem first hand to get a good handle on how to proceed with diagnosis.

Yea, I know, I probably just made this worse
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Last edited by Vicoor; 07-31-2011 at 08:43 AM.
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Old 07-31-2011, 11:08 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Although I did number the sensors, I wasn't intending it as a ranking of their importance. And mea culpa on the ect - forgot that one, which I've mentioned in previous posts.
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