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Old 10-30-2011, 10:42 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Chinese Knockoff 22re Block Line Bored Wrong

Hi folks,

I am new here and just went through a hell of time fixing a toyota pickup--it took a year to figure it out (ok, well 9 months of weekends but who's counting). For those that don't want to read the whole thread, let me summarize.

After doing some research and finding no substantive issues (documented that is) I bought a new chinese knockoff 22re engine and put it into a 86 4x4 Pickup (EFI, auto trans, etc.). The truck ran great! But it started breaking flex plates. After 4 flex plates and $2000 total cost, I figured out that the crankshaft was 2mm too high in the block. Not enough to affect the engine operation but really flexed and broke the flexplates. I documented this what happened so if folks are interested let me know.

What is interesting here is that as the vendor said, this can't be because they manufacture these in runs of 500 and he has sold 1000s. My thought is, either there are thousands of mis-manufactured 22re blocks out there or, I just happened to be the unlucky "1"--and I doubt that.

Doubt it or not, I posit that if one of these engines are placed in a car with a manual transmission that the effect will not be seen for "perhaps" years. It is only in an automatic you'd see the effect in short order. Think about it, we had 4 flexplates fail in less than 2500 miles.

Finally, if you have one of these engines and you have a small (or large) mainseal oil leak, this is one of the symptoms. In my document I show that mail oil seal is overly compress at the top and not touching at the bottom.

I am really curious to find out if I am the only one.

Thanks for reading, Ted
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Old 10-30-2011, 12:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I know this may be like closing the barn door well after the horse has bolted, but Toyota still has OEM Japanese-built 22RE short blocks in stock. When I bought mine in early September they showed 9 left in their system.
Cheers,
Paul
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Old 10-30-2011, 01:11 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKile View Post
I know this may be like closing the barn door well after the horse has bolted, but Toyota still has OEM Japanese-built 22RE short blocks in stock. When I bought mine in early September they showed 9 left in their system.
Cheers,
Paul
How much are those OEM blocks?
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Old 10-30-2011, 03:10 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dissturbbed View Post
How much are those OEM blocks?
I just checked my invoice dated 9/2/2011 from Folsom Lake Toyota, List was $2297.56, I got it for 2171.20.
Lauren Harbaugh was the parts counterperson I dealt with, she is awesome. She used to have a 4Runner with a 22RE and she did a great job sourcing obscure fasteners and bits for my project.
Cheers,
Paul
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Old 10-30-2011, 08:26 PM   #5 (permalink)
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You know, I just got a serious bashing and removed from YotaTech Forums. I guess my responses to the less than kind folk there were not well received. Thanks you for you more kindly thoughts.


My mistake, if you believe my premise, was trying to buy the cheapest. My bad... But the temptation of a new long block costing $1500 was too great.

I wonder if others have seen this problem...

Best, Ted





Quote:
Originally Posted by PKile View Post
I know this may be like closing the barn door well after the horse has bolted, but Toyota still has OEM Japanese-built 22RE short blocks in stock. When I bought mine in early September they showed 9 left in their system.
Cheers,
Paul
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Old 10-30-2011, 08:52 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Why not just machine an OEM block .... ?
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Old 10-31-2011, 01:18 AM   #7 (permalink)
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One of these days word might finally get out that, left to their own devices, China makes crap. Sometimes even when not...and it's seldom cheaper than anything else when you have to replace it prematurely. It's not fun finding that out the hard way; I have, but the hardest lessons are usually the best remembered.
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Old 10-31-2011, 06:45 AM   #8 (permalink)
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This is why I am totally against puting any cheap chinese crap on my truck.
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Old 10-31-2011, 10:36 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Doesnt matter if its toys or engine parts , if it says made in china ...its CRAP!
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Old 10-31-2011, 11:19 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Though this may be true, I just wanted to get the word out about this specific problem for those that may be struggling with it. Though it took me too long to find--and there is a reason for that--other may not be so lucky.

Here are some photos for you folk. http://s1136.photobucket.com/albums/n493/tgsopher/

Best, Ted
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:00 PM   #11 (permalink)
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where did you get the engine from?
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:06 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I am still dealing with the company so I don't yet want to make this public--yet, they are replacing the motor now and I have yet to check it. Make sense? I will share this in a week or so--as soon as I get the replacement motor.

Best
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:25 PM   #13 (permalink)
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If this were a common problem, I would expect symptoms to show up on manual transmission vehicles as well. Consider a crankshaft and flywheel that is offset 2 mm upward from the stock location. If you centered the clutch disc, then tried to bolt up the bell housing to the engine, the bolt holes should be off by 2mm. If you managed to force the transmission into place, that would put a hellacious side load on the tranny input shaft and input bearing, and the pilot bearing. I would also expect a severe vibration when you let the clutch out, since the disc would be offset 2mm and would be "precessing" around the crank centerline.

I would also wonder about starter problems. Since the starter is located by the bellhousing/engine rear plate, if the flywheel is 2mm too high I would expect the starter gear to bind in the ring gear. I can't remember if the starter mounts above the lateral centerline of the flywheel, if it doesn't, then you might not get binding, you might get slippage or wear on the gear teeth.

Did you have any problems with the flex plate bolt holes not lining up with your torque converter bolt holes when assembling the engine? I would expect that would be where the problem would have first manifested itself.

Cheers,
Paul
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Old 10-31-2011, 01:05 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Paul,

Everything you say makes perfect sense. My idea about manual transmissions was just that, a musing to rationalize how there could possibly be more than 1 bad block out there. However, mine may be a single occurrence.

*Rationalization for so many flexplates.
As for what I did, I was deluded by a couple of thoughts.
1. When the first one failed I thought I should have replaced it because it was old. Dumb me.
2. I bought the cheapest one I could get, that must have been why it broke-- Dumb me again
3. This is where I drew the line--it was an orginal Toyota plate from the dealer and it failed
Now I knew I was missing some...
4. That is why I took it too some pros--they made the same mistake I did!

This is when "I" figured it out.

By the way...

No starter problems
The plate bolts went in ok as the center alignment pin on the torque converter sees to that.
However, they had to be at a slight angle that I didn't notice -- my bad.

I should have done better no doubt. But, my curiousity remains--could there be others out there?

Best, Ted
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Old 11-02-2011, 08:34 AM   #15 (permalink)
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at least you have a company to deal with. most stuff from china just says "china" on it and what are you gonna do, sue china itself? good luck. engines, hardware, chain, shackles, etc EVERYTHING. I don't have a lot of respect for some aspects of American manufacturing but there's a lot more accountability and thus a lot more good products that you can trace back to their origin.
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