New Chain won't Idle - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums


» Auto Insurance
» Featured Product
Advertisement
Wheel & Tire Center

Go Back   Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums > Toyota Truck, SUV and Van Forums > Hilux (Pickup) Forum > 89-95 Toyota Pickup/Hilux

89-95 Toyota Pickup/Hilux Discussion forum for the 89-95 Toyota Pickup/Hilux owners. NEW!

ToyotaNation.com is the premier Toyota Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-12-2013, 06:05 PM   #1 (permalink)
elb
New TN User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: kansas
Posts: 6
Thanks: 11
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
View elb's Photo Gallery
New Chain won't Idle

I run a 94 single cab truck 22re. The timing chain broke.I replaced it and the guides.It fired up when reassembled but died after the engine reached operational temp.If I hold the throttle it will run a lot of tapping, vales I think, Any suggestions would be most appreciated. thank you.
elb is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-12-2013, 06:15 PM   #2 (permalink)
Official TN Member
 
BlackOmega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 86
Thanks: 12
Thanked 20 Times in 19 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
View BlackOmega's Photo Gallery
Well, it sounds like the valves may need adjusting (if they're adjustable). If they're hydraulic, then it sounds like after the engine heats up, they lose pressure.

I don't know if your truck has valve adjustments or not, but that can easily be one culprit.
If they're hydraulic, try running a thicker oil that won't drain when it gets hot.
__________________
2000 E55 AMG 426HP/ 474ft. lbs. torque
BlackOmega is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to BlackOmega For This Useful Post:
elb (01-12-2013)
Old 01-12-2013, 07:53 PM   #3 (permalink)
DCM
One with the farce
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: BC
Posts: 2,826
Gameroom cash: $478500
Thanks: 50
Thanked 166 Times in 146 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
View DCM's Photo Gallery
Sounds more like your timing chain is off by one tooth.
__________________
'92 ST185 All trac turbo
'91 Cressida
'72 TE27

DCM is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DCM For This Useful Post:
elb (01-12-2013)
Old 01-12-2013, 08:02 PM   #4 (permalink)
elb
New TN User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: kansas
Posts: 6
Thanks: 11
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
View elb's Photo Gallery
chain broke won't Idle

Thank you Black Omega, I don't know if the valves are adjustable but I'll pull the valve cover and check, is there anything else I can do while I have the valve cover off? I currently run 10 w 40 Gastro, what Oil would you recogmend?
I tried to adjust the Idle at the throttle body and the engine wouldn't respond to the change turning the screw made no difference am I missing a step some where?
thanks again
elb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2013, 08:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
DCM
One with the farce
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: BC
Posts: 2,826
Gameroom cash: $478500
Thanks: 50
Thanked 166 Times in 146 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
View DCM's Photo Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by elb View Post
Thank you Black Omega, I don't know if the valves are adjustable but I'll pull the valve cover and check, is there anything else I can do while I have the valve cover off?

You could check the cam timing. Start with the basics first before you twiddle with everything else randomly hoping to fix the issue.

When the engine is at Top Dead Center, the dot on the cam sprocket should be positioned slightly off toward the driver's side of the vehicle.
__________________
'92 ST185 All trac turbo
'91 Cressida
'72 TE27

DCM is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DCM For This Useful Post:
elb (01-12-2013)
Old 01-12-2013, 08:24 PM   #6 (permalink)
elb
New TN User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: kansas
Posts: 6
Thanks: 11
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
View elb's Photo Gallery
New chain won't Idle

thanks DMC , if that's the case do I have to pull the timing cover again or is there a less involved fix? It's been a good little truck so I want to get it right. Is there some way to test to see if I get the chair right before closing it up?
thanks again
elb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2013, 09:00 PM   #7 (permalink)
Official TN Member
 
BlackOmega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 86
Thanks: 12
Thanked 20 Times in 19 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
View BlackOmega's Photo Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by elb View Post
Thank you Black Omega, I don't know if the valves are adjustable but I'll pull the valve cover and check, is there anything else I can do while I have the valve cover off? I currently run 10 w 40 Gastro, what Oil would you recogmend?
I tried to adjust the Idle at the throttle body and the engine wouldn't respond to the change turning the screw made no difference am I missing a step some where?
thanks again
I suppose the pertinent quesion is how did it run before you replaced the timing chain?
How many miles on the engine?
If the valves are adjustable, when was the last time it was adjusted?

Regarding oil, what does the manual call for? You can't run thicker oil in cerain engines because the lifter holes are metered to certain weights of oils. For instance if you change the oil on a Taurus that calls for 5w20 and use 5w30 in its place, the valvetrain will clatter.
So it really depends. However, most engines have a variety of oils they can run depending on ambient temperature.
The last one that also matters is how do you drive? Realistically. Don't say you drive like grandma when you're between 3500 and 5k most of the time. That reason alone is the most important. If you drive spirited, it's better to run a thicker oil.
In most of my cars, especially ones with higher miles, I've always ran Catrol Syntec (Edge, whatever they call it now)5 w 50.
On most days I will hit the redline on a car. Not all the time, but often enough to where I need a slightly thicker oil. I've never had a problem with it, and even on some older small block Fords (302, 351, 289, etc.)it brought down operating temps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCM View Post
You could check the cam timing. Start with the basics first before you twiddle with everything else randomly hoping to fix the issue.

When the engine is at Top Dead Center, the dot on the cam sprocket should be positioned slightly off toward the driver's side of the vehicle.
Definitely recheck the timing, however, we don't have enough info. As mentioned above, if it is supposed to have a valve adjustment done, and hasn't had it done, it can easily cause running problems.
My friends Civic dropped a cylinder completely.
Perhaps he was trying to fix a noise in the valvetrain the whole time and thought that maybe the chain was stretched and out of time.
__________________
2000 E55 AMG 426HP/ 474ft. lbs. torque

Last edited by BlackOmega; 01-12-2013 at 09:02 PM.
BlackOmega is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to BlackOmega For This Useful Post:
elb (01-13-2013)
Old 01-12-2013, 11:17 PM   #8 (permalink)
DCM
One with the farce
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: BC
Posts: 2,826
Gameroom cash: $478500
Thanks: 50
Thanked 166 Times in 146 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
View DCM's Photo Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by elb View Post
thanks DMC , if that's the case do I have to pull the timing cover again or is there a less involved fix? It's been a good little truck so I want to get it right. Is there some way to test to see if I get the chair right before closing it up?
thanks again

To answer the first question, no. Remove the valve cover, then set the crank 0 (so that your #1 valves are both closed). Then check to make sure the sprocket is timed. If it isn't, you can adjust without removing the cover, just takes a bit of common sense and elbow grease, and some patience.


Black Omega, although checking the valve lash etc is a good idea, you have to look at the work that was done by the person. If it wasn't done 100% right, there really is no sense in setting the valves until he's certain that the cam is timed properly, I'm sure you'd agree and can see the logic in checking it first.
__________________
'92 ST185 All trac turbo
'91 Cressida
'72 TE27


Last edited by DCM; 01-12-2013 at 11:20 PM.
DCM is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DCM For This Useful Post:
elb (01-13-2013)
Old 01-13-2013, 07:05 AM   #9 (permalink)
Cressida nut
 
kamesama980's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Columbus, IN
Posts: 4,099
Gameroom cash: $638795
Thanks: 2
Thanked 271 Times in 258 Posts
Lifetime Supreme Member
Garage
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
View kamesama980's Photo Gallery
Presumably, since this is the pickup section and the V6 has timing belts, the OP has the 22RE. It has a purely mechanical rocker valvetrain, no hydraulics to get funny with different weight oils. No offense black omega: thanks for the help but it's not helping too much.

Forget oil weight, 10w30 is right. forget lifters, there aren't any. If it wasn't making this noise before, it's not the valve adjustment. 1. Check the cam as mentioned. If the cam is where it should be, then check the ignition timing with a timing light. (short TE1 to E1, should be about 5 deg BTDC. If it isn't, someone may have previously adjusted the distributor to compensate for chain problems.

That the idle screw adjustment isn't making much difference could also be a problem, but check the other stuff first.
__________________
-Russell
"You don't get to judge me for how I fix what you break"
'94 Pontiac Firebird LT1, T56
'90 Cressida, 7M-GE, M5
'91 Toyota Pickup, 22R-E, M5, 2wd
kamesama980 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to kamesama980 For This Useful Post:
elb (01-13-2013)
Old 01-13-2013, 11:00 AM   #10 (permalink)
Official TN Member
 
BlackOmega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 86
Thanks: 12
Thanked 20 Times in 19 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
View BlackOmega's Photo Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCM View Post
To answer the first question, no. Remove the valve cover, then set the crank 0 (so that your #1 valves are both closed). Then check to make sure the sprocket is timed. If it isn't, you can adjust without removing the cover, just takes a bit of common sense and elbow grease, and some patience.


Black Omega, although checking the valve lash etc is a good idea, you have to look at the work that was done by the person. If it wasn't done 100% right, there really is no sense in setting the valves until he's certain that the cam is timed properly, I'm sure you'd agree and can see the logic in checking it first.
Of course I can. However, you can check the timing and adjust the valves at the same time. That way you can ensure that the poor running is not related to improper lash.
Although if the chain actually broke on him, how do we know there isn't more damage internally? Is that an interference engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kamesama980 View Post
Presumably, since this is the pickup section and the V6 has timing belts, the OP has the 22RE. It has a purely mechanical rocker valvetrain, no hydraulics to get funny with different weight oils. No offense black omega: thanks for the help but it's not helping too much.

Forget oil weight, 10w30 is right. forget lifters, there aren't any. If it wasn't making this noise before, it's not the valve adjustment. 1. Check the cam as mentioned. If the cam is where it should be, then check the ignition timing with a timing light. (short TE1 to E1, should be about 5 deg BTDC. If it isn't, someone may have previously adjusted the distributor to compensate for chain problems.

That the idle screw adjustment isn't making much difference could also be a problem, but check the other stuff first.
None taken.
Is that 4 Banger an interference engine?
At this point instead of assuming and fiddling with shit, adjusting the valves and checking compression is what I'd do. For several reasons.
1. You can immediately tell if there is an issue if there's low compression.
2. You'll have an opportunity to inspect the plugs.

Once you've verified that everything is in spec, THEN move on to checking timing and idle adjustment. Although the idle should never have to be adjusted.
__________________
2000 E55 AMG 426HP/ 474ft. lbs. torque

Last edited by BlackOmega; 01-14-2013 at 08:00 AM.
BlackOmega is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to BlackOmega For This Useful Post:
elb (01-13-2013)
Old 01-13-2013, 11:04 AM   #11 (permalink)
Official TN Member
 
BlackOmega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 86
Thanks: 12
Thanked 20 Times in 19 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
View BlackOmega's Photo Gallery
Sorry for the double post (on my phone ).

One more thing, while doing a compression test, you could also do a cylinder leak test. If they have a compressor at their disposal.
__________________
2000 E55 AMG 426HP/ 474ft. lbs. torque
BlackOmega is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to BlackOmega For This Useful Post:
elb (01-13-2013)
Old 01-13-2013, 05:52 PM   #12 (permalink)
elb
New TN User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: kansas
Posts: 6
Thanks: 11
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
View elb's Photo Gallery
New chain won't Idle

Thanks for the direction I'll pull the value cover and check it out
, I'll be back to thank you later or beg for more advice.
If the chain is off one tooth how would you move it with out pulling the timing cover?
Thanks for sharing the knowledge.
elb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 08:00 AM   #13 (permalink)
Official TN Member
 
BlackOmega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 86
Thanks: 12
Thanked 20 Times in 19 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
View BlackOmega's Photo Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by elb View Post
Thanks for the direction I'll pull the value cover and check it out
, I'll be back to thank you later or beg for more advice.
If the chain is off one tooth how would you move it with out pulling the timing cover?
Thanks for sharing the knowledge.
You can't. If it's off a tooth, you'll have to pull all back apart and reset it.

If you verify that it is off, reset it and remember to check it by turning the engine over 2 full revolutions and making sure the timing marks line back up.
__________________
2000 E55 AMG 426HP/ 474ft. lbs. torque

Last edited by BlackOmega; 01-14-2013 at 08:02 AM.
BlackOmega is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to BlackOmega For This Useful Post:
elb (01-14-2013)
Old 01-14-2013, 11:08 AM   #14 (permalink)
DCM
One with the farce
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: BC
Posts: 2,826
Gameroom cash: $478500
Thanks: 50
Thanked 166 Times in 146 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
View DCM's Photo Gallery
I've done it a couple of times without removing the timing cover but it's a pain in the butt to do. You'll need to use a slender bar or large screwdriver to hold the sprocket up while undoing the cam bolt. Remove the distributor drive gear and thread the cam bolt back in enough that there's abou a 1/4" gap between the flange of the bolt and the sprocket. Slide the sprocket forward til it drops onto the bolt, then adjust the chain 1 tooth in whichever direction it needs to go, then take a piece of wire and tie the chain in place through one of the openings in the sprocket, so you don't forget which tooth it's supposed to be on. Now the difficult part...with your big screwdriver/prybar or whatever you use, lift the sprocket back onto the snout of the cam, and at the same time, turn the crank pulley until the sprocket lines up with the alignment pin. Remember you'll be working against the tensioner when doing this. If you're not comfortable doing it this way then you'll need to remove the timing cover and do it that way.
__________________
'92 ST185 All trac turbo
'91 Cressida
'72 TE27

DCM is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DCM For This Useful Post:
elb (01-14-2013)
Old 01-14-2013, 08:30 PM   #15 (permalink)
elb
New TN User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: kansas
Posts: 6
Thanks: 11
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
View elb's Photo Gallery
New chain won't Idle

Wow you know this engine well.
My chain has two shiney links one goes to the crank dot and the other to the cam dot.
The cam dot should rest in the middle of the link is that correct?

Should the crank be at 0 TDC or at 5 degree timing mark?

Are there other indicators that will indicate the chair is timed incorrectly.

DMC , Black Omega thanks for taken time to help out
elb is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums > Toyota Truck, SUV and Van Forums > Hilux (Pickup) Forum > 89-95 Toyota Pickup/Hilux

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:17 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.
ToyotaNation.com is an independent Toyota/Lexus enthusiast website. ToyotaNation.com is not sponsored by or in any way affiliated with Toyota Motor Sales, USA, Inc. The Toyota, Lexus and Scion names and logos are trademarks owned by Toyota Motor Sales, USA, Inc.