22R will not idle, fuel cut solenoid?

[81toytruck]

Hope someone in this forum has some expertise on this one. I have an 81 pickup 22R gas engine with the Aisin carb. Carb was just rebuilt using the NAPA rebuild kit. Carb was soaked in carb cleaner and all passages were blown out with the air compressor. It now starts easily, has great throttle response, and has more power. That's the good part...but

The choke opens normally and the engine will fast idle at 1500 rpm after about a minute. About 5 minutes after startup it suddenly drops off and dies. It will restart immediately but the throttle has to be blipped to maintain. It will not idle on its own. Prior to the rebuild it was dirty and lacked power but it would startup and idle at 900rpm.

I dug around the forums and Internet looking for some answers. Short of a vacuum leak, the idle fuel cut solenoid seems to create this problem on Toyotas. The FSM says to test it by direct connection to the battery. I tested mine this way and it clicks on and off but there is no movement. Should the portion where the O ring is move in and out of the solenoid body? Mine does not. Don't want to replace it if this is normal behavior. Seems like it should move.

I did replace all of the vacuum hoses on the engine and confirmed their routing with the FSM..

Any helpful ideas would be appreciated!

[mdj21]

If you put power to that solenoid and nothing moves, it's not working. You say it makes a clicking sound, so maybe it's just stuck. Maybe try cleaning it really good and test it again.

Some part of that solenoid should be touching the throttle. That is the part that should be moving. When energized, that solenoid holds the throttle in the proper location for your truck to idle. When you turn off the key, the solenoid de-energizes allowing the throttle to essentially starve the engine for fuel. That combined with cutting the power to the coil is how the truck shuts off. The solenoid isn't really required for shutting off the truck; it just helps prevent your engine from dieseling (running on a bit after shutdown.)

Sounds like your solenoid is not pushing the throttle to where it needs to be and when your engine warms up and the choke comes off, the throttle drops down too low and starves the engine for fuel.

Good luck and I hope this helps,

Mike.

[fourwd1]

It could also be that the ECM isn't sending the signal to the solenoid to energize it. There is +12V to it always, and the ECM provides the Ground.

[konstan]

Originally Posted by mdj21

Some part of that solenoid should be touching the throttle. That is the part that should be moving.

Are you sure the solenoid is actually pushing the throttle? The throttle return spring is pretty stiff; I am pretty sure the solenoid does not funciton by holding the throttle.

I think it does its job by restricting the actual fuel mixture flow (by retracting the plunger). in its non-activated state the plunger is extended and the passage is blocked.

If you already have the solenoid out of the carb, find a short fat bolt with the same thread pattern as the solenoid and gently screw it in in place of the solenoid. If it runs and idles this way, you're good to go..

All those replacement carbs - webers and such - don't have any such solenoids. It's a nice to have. But pricey to replace. Try the bolt, at least it will confirm if the solenoid is the problem.

For good measure, while the solenoid is out, spray some carb cleaner and compressed air (not too strong though!) in there, to make sure the passage is not blocked by dirt.

[81toytruck]

Appreciate the responses. konstan, I agree, per your description this part does not touch the throttle arm anywhere on my carburetor. It threads into the top of the carburetor body and has two wires coming out of it. It would appear that the internal piston moves to close off the idle passageway in the carburetor when the engine is switched off.

I removed it from the carburetor and cleaned it again. Even with force, it does not appear that it will move in, out, or rotate. When power is applied, it makes a faint clicking sound and the solenoid body moves as though something internal is moving when power is applied.

I replaced the solenoid with an M8 x 1.00 x 12 bolt using the original copper washer. The engine again started and ran fine until about the 5 minute mark. Again the engine shut down at this point as though it had vacuum leak. The fast idle cam is on position one when it dies, it is not dropping off of the cam completely. If it did, the throttle arm would drop back onto the idle speed screw. Explains why adjusting the idle speed screw is not having any effect.

Even when I hold the throttle to keep it running it is misfiring after this. It will run at about 1000rpm if I hold it steady but it is missing badly. It misses at higher rpm as well. Prior to warming up and shutting off like this, it does not misfire.

The PCV valve was replaced. The EGR valve was removed and cleaned. The tube going into the intake was clogged. Cleaning it out has not improved this either.

Appears the idle cut solenoid was not the problem. If it is an internal vacuum leak, what would open around 5 minutes after starting that would cause this?

[qsd-dan]

Kind of a long shot, but a bad signal generator in the distributor will cause that exact symptom. Check the resistance of the signal generator with a cold engine and re-check after the engine is warm and has stalled.

[79Corona]

Originally Posted by 81toytruck

Hope someone in this forum has some expertise on this one. I have an 81 pickup 22R gas engine with the Aisin carb. Carb was just rebuilt using the NAPA rebuild kit. Carb was soaked in carb cleaner and all passages were blown out with the air compressor. It now starts easily, has great throttle response, and has more power. That's the good part...but

The choke opens normally and the engine will fast idle at 1500 rpm after about a minute. About 5 minutes after startup it suddenly drops off and dies. It will restart immediately but the throttle has to be blipped to maintain. It will not idle on its own. Prior to the rebuild it was dirty and lacked power but it would startup and idle at 900rpm.

I dug around the forums and Internet looking for some answers. Short of a vacuum leak, the idle fuel cut solenoid seems to create this problem on Toyotas. The FSM says to test it by direct connection to the battery. I tested mine this way and it clicks on and off but there is no movement. Should the portion where the O ring is move in and out of the solenoid body? Mine does not. Don't want to replace it if this is normal behavior. Seems like it should move.

I did replace all of the vacuum hoses on the engine and confirmed their routing with the FSM..

Any helpful ideas would be appreciated!

Spray brake parts cleaner around the base of the carb and see what happens. If idle varies, you have a leak there.

[81toytruck]

Ok, here's what I think is happening. When the engine warms, it opens the BVSV that allows vacuum to the Choke Pull Off. Once the choke pull off gets vacuum, that's when the engine dies. If I pull the vacuum line off the choke and plug it, the engine runs fine, albeit at 1800rpm. I let it run for about 15 minutes like this to see if the auto choke would pull off itself, but it only opened about 80% on its own. It still has the rivets so it doesn't adjust.

When the truck was warming up, it was pulling 20" Hg vacuum. With the EGR vacuum line hooked up, this drops to 18"...anyhow, if I manually pull the choke off the fast idle cam to get it onto the idle screw, it will now idle at 800rpm. Vacuum guage will show a steady 20" Hg.

I am almost positive that the diapragm in the choke pull off is bad and is creating the vacuum leak. I will test it tomorrow with a vacuum pump and report the results. Looks like a new one is about $50.

[81toytruck]

Choke pull off diaphragm was bad, would not hold vacuum. Ordered a new one today, will be in by next Wednesday. Apparently parts for 28 year old Toys aren't stocked at every corner NAPA. I'm just glad that the part is still available.

[lagarto]

Originally Posted by 81toytruck

Choke pull off diaphragm was bad, would not hold vacuum. Ordered a new one today, will be in by next Wednesday. Apparently parts for 28 year old Toys aren't stocked at every corner NAPA. I'm just glad that the part is still available.

Did the new diaphragm solve your problem?

[ironworks]

I changed my diaphram about 8or 9yrs ago, had a hole in it(same symptoms as you had).......but the diaphram was in the carb kit. Was it not in your kit when your rebuilt your carb? Toyota wanted $100 plus tax then just for the diaphram, that is why i bought the kit. Think the kit then was about $75 plus tax.

[81toytruck]

lagarto, yes this part was the cause of the leak. Replacing it has allowed the engine to idle at 800rpm.

ironworks,
there was a pull off for the choke in the kit, but it was not the one that failed. Can't seem to get the pic to post, I'll provide a link. After the carb rebuild, this one would not hold a vaccuum. When I plugged the vac line to it, it idled just fine but would not kick down on its own.

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/Pro...rtNumber=VC737

A new one of these did the trick.

[pyrojoe22]

is that the same thing as an "anti-diesel solenoid"? i had a mechanic look at my truck and he said i need one of those. he fiddled around with the vacuum a bit and wat the problem is is that when i turn my A/C on, the truck starts revving really high, im talkin an idle of 35mph in 3rd gear!!! anyone else have this problem?

[Pistol Hill]

I recently fixed my idle problem on an 83 carbureted 22r using some of the info found on these pages. I had the same problem where it started OK, ran a high idle, came down to a normal idle for 5 minutes, then died.

Carefully look down the throat of the carb. You should NOT see any gas dribbling into the engine if its idling properly.

My fuel cut solenoid was not engaging. It should click when the key is turned on. I removed the solenoid and put the two wires across the battery, it then clicked. One side of the mating connector for the solenoid has +12 v. The other side should nearly go to ground when the key is turned on. Its not a direct short to ground because it goes through some electronics.

I traced the control wires back to a gray box on the driver's side kick panel The box said "emission control" and had one large green connector. I traced here by measuring continuity from the connector under the hood to the green connector on this gray box. I removed the 2 screws holding the box together, removed the circuit board inside and started to trace the circuit on the board when I noticed "cold" solder joints on most of the green connector pins on the circuit board. If you look at them with a magnifying glass you can see the cracked solder around the pin.

I resoldered all the pins of this connector on the circuit card and now it works great. Controls the solenoid nicely now. These cold solder joints happen due to the years of temperature cycling. Hot summers & cold winters.

Most of the pins had bad joints, so I probably fixed other problems I didn't even know I had.

2nd Truck: My son also has a similar truck, 1986 carbureted 22r that wouldn't idle well. After my experience I had an idea what to look for.

His problem was a stuck solenoid. We removed it and did the same as above, only it didn't "click". Cleaned it with carb cleaner, tapped it lightly, and put the controls across the battery. It eventually broke free and now works. His idle problem has been fixed too.

Hope this helps someone.

[fourwd1]

Originally Posted by pyrojoe22

is that the same thing as an "anti-diesel solenoid"? i had a mechanic look at my truck and he said i need one of those.

It could be called that.

he fiddled around with the vacuum a bit and wat the problem is is that when i turn my A/C on, the truck starts revving really high, im talkin an idle of 35mph in 3rd gear!!! anyone else have this problem?

There also is an "idle up" circuit that kicks in when the A/C compressor kicks on, but it shouldn't increase that much.