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Old 05-22-2010, 09:22 AM   #1 (permalink)
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USA 04 Highlander V6 timing belt change

I am planning to replace my timing belt in the next few weeks and have been reading the Haynes Manual procedure for the removal and installation of the belt. I have a problem with a couple of steps in the procedure.

After making sure the timing marks are properly aligned, chapter 2 part B section 7 step 22 says to rotate the crankshaft approximately 60 degrees counterclockwise with a caution that the pistons must be moved from the TDC number 1 position where they will not accidentally contact the valves when the belt tension is released.

The next step is to remove the tensioner.

The next several steps deal with removing and reinstalling the camshaft sprockets.

Step 39 says to rotate the crankshaft back to TDC number 1 cyl.

If I am reading this correctly I am moving the camshafts and the crankshaft separately with the timing belt off. I would think that the less movement without the belt installed the better.

Am I reading this wrong or am I missing something here?

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Old 05-23-2010, 03:33 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Although I just aligned all marks and held the belt in place before popping the tensioner off, moving the crank back 60 degrees puts all the pistons somewhere in mid stroke--least likely to contact valves if cams move.

Assume they recommend this not so much because of when the tensioner is released, but for when you are wrestling with the cam sprocket bolts and the cams turn and valves move.

Are they having you remove the cam sprockets to get at the water pump? If so, you only have to remove the right (and most accessible sprocket) and three or four of the back engine cover bolts to get wiggle the pump out from underneath the cover. The trick is to FIRST remove the threaded post that is common to alternator and motor mount bracket.
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Old 05-23-2010, 04:05 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Thanks AVCconsult,
About the camshafts, all they are telling in the manual is that this is the time to remove them if I was going to. I am hoping that I won't need to remove them at all. This being the case, then I probably should not turn the crank the 60 degrees CCW. Does that seem correct? Hopefully I won't need to change anything but the belt or at most the tensioner or idler pulley.
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Old 05-23-2010, 11:19 PM   #4 (permalink)
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If you are going to replace the water pump, which is is strongly recommended, then you'll have to take off the one cam sprocket off. Rotating the crank back 60 degrees to protect valves while can replace the water pump, check idlers, tensioner, etc, seems a reasonable. Just rotate it back to index mark just before putting on the new belt.
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Old 05-26-2010, 12:50 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I see you are still bothered by the 60 degree thing; your post on TundraSolutions....
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Old 05-26-2010, 02:01 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Question

You are right AVConsult, I went to the local Toyota dealer yesterday and bought a belt. While I was there I asked the service mgr. about the 60 degree thing and he went to his computer and ran me a copy of the 2004 Highlander repair manual timing belt replacement procedure and it says the same thing. Here's the notice at the timing belt removal step: "with the timing belt removed: the crankshaft pulley must be at the correct angle to avoid damage in later steps. If the crankshaft pulley is at the wrong angle and then the camshaft timing pulley and the camshaft are removed, the piston head and valve head may come in contact and be damaged." I will not be removing the pulley and cam so why rotate 60 degrees CCW?
Maybe I'm a little overboard with this, don't know. Trying to be sure that I don't damage something.
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Old 05-27-2010, 09:18 PM   #7 (permalink)
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04 Belt and Pump

Did this job last weekend. I didnt quite understand the 60 degree comment either and dont think it matters. Drained the antifreeze just below the pump with the fitting on bottom back side of motor. Required 2 gallons of Zerex 50/50 Premix for Asian vehicles to refill. NAPA $10 Toyota $27 in CT. The job was going well until I realized the water pump could not be removed without removing the shield behind the cam sprockets. Definetly a lousy design for water pump replacement. I had to remove the front cam sprocket and shield bolts in order to rotate the shield enough to allow removal of the water pump. Removing the cam pulley required two M6 socket head cap screws with 3/8in OD x 1/2in long sleeves for added support screwed into the shield to prevent cam rotation. You will need to rotate the cam slightly to install the bolts. Just align it back to the mark before installing the belt. I used my air gun to remove and install the pulley bolt. Dont forget to relocate the bolts to avoid rotation of the cam during installation. Initially I tried two M6 hex bolts without sleeves and they bent. I dont know what the official tool is but screws with sleeves worked fine. Make sure cam and crank marks are still aligned. New belt comes with lines to coincide with marks on pulleys. I did try rotating the belt clockwise all the way around to see if the marks would return to the installed position. When they didnt I panicked. Bottom line is when the crank mark is aligned and the cam marks are on the mark and you can rotate the motor with a ratchet on the crank pulley bolt without the piston and valves hitting you are good to continue. If the crank was on the wrong stroke the intake valves would interfere with the piston. You wont damage it by rotating by hand as long as you dont force things. The lines provided on the belt are only provided as a confirmation that you are on the right tooth of the pulley and belt when the pulleys are aligned with the crank and cam marks. They do not line up after rotating the belt a full revolution. Those marks caused more confusion for me than help since I thought they would always line up when the belt was rotated a full revolution. Really the only crapper was the shield design. Dealer pump and belts $200 + fluids $20. Dealer wanted $850. Its only a matter of your time and some mechanical ability.
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Old 05-28-2010, 07:59 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks mjt,
Good info for me to go ahead and change mine (probably in about a week). The marks on the timing belt are only for installation purposes. Once you rotate the belt they will probably never line up with the cam and crank marks again. This gave me a fit several timing belt changes ago.
Thanks again for the info!
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Old 05-28-2010, 08:09 AM   #9 (permalink)
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By the way. The belt was in great condition at 110K however the pump was starting to weep out of the hole.
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Old 06-10-2010, 09:16 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I replaced my timing belt on Tuesday. Here is a little info and a couple of tips on doing the job.

First, I broke the torque on the crankshaft bolt before removing any belts. I held the crank by removing the little cover at the flywheel and binding a box end wrench against the housing.



After placing a bottle jack and short 2x4 below the oil pan and removing the engine dogbone and brackets and spacer I found that jacking the engine up about 3/8 inch more allows removal of the engine mount bracket without taking out those long studs. (I was having trouble getting them out.)

My manual said to remove the power steering pump and position it off to the side without disconnecting the hoses to remove the tensioner. All you need to do is remove the adjusting bracket to gain access to the tensioner.

After getting the new belt in place I used a couple of squeeze clamps to help keep the marks on the belt and the pulley timing marks in place.




I think it would be easier to install the new belt (for me anyway) not following the recommended inst. order. I would put it on the rear cam pulley with all timing marks aligned first and clamp it. Then under the top idler pulley and around the front cam pulley, align timing marks and clamp. Then around the water pump pulley and to the crankshaft pulley and align the timing marks. Might have to move the crank slightly for alignment. Then over the tensioner pulley. Double ckeck all timing marks and put tension on the belt.

I did not rotate the crank 60 degrees CCW as the manuals said and had no problems.
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Old 06-10-2010, 11:32 AM   #11 (permalink)
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timing belt

You didnt change the water pump?
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Old 06-10-2010, 11:55 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjt View Post
You didnt change the water pump?
Didn't change the water pump. It looked good and I couldn't see any sign of weeping. I changed the timing belt early due to a long trip planned this fall to the Rocky mountains. Mileage is 86500.
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Old 06-10-2010, 12:06 PM   #13 (permalink)
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timing belt

Well that makes the job a whole lot easier. You do realize when the pump goes its likely going to ruin the belt. My car was at 110K and pump was weeping. Hope you make it thru the Rockies. Anyway nice of you to share your experience with the belt change. Alot of these forums are weak on actual experience.
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Old 06-10-2010, 12:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Congrats cmryhldr! Another successful timing belt.

Those motor mount/alternator mounting studs are a real pain, eh? Interesting technique for breaking the crank bolt. And, as you discovered, althought he 60 degree thing might be a straps-n-suspenders precaution, if you are careful, it is unnecessary.

BTW, the reason they have you thread the crank first, is that it wont turn easily while you thread the cams, whereas threading the cams then the crank, it's easy to turn the cams in the process.

Statistics are on your side regarding a water pump failure before 180k miles or so with these Toys. Mine had 150k on it at the belt change so I would have been profoundly stupid for not changing the WP then.

Before anyone smarts off , stats were on my side regarding a timing belt break. Modern nitrile rubber based timing belts operating in sealed chambers just don't outright fail on their own very often. If they make it 60k to demonstrate no manufacturing defects, they'll make 200k, although not without ever increasing tooth wear. Timing can get pretty sloppy, but it won't damage valves.
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Old 06-10-2010, 01:06 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Yep, the wrench and the squeeze clamps were like having a helper.
You are right about threading the belt but it sure was hard getting the rear cam pulley marks all lined up. Hard to see. (A mirror helped) I would still try the other way first just to see.

I will definitely change the water pump at the next timing belt change. Matter of fact I would probably replace this belt at around 150,000 miles because of the water pump.
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