02 Highlander AC problems - Page 2 - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums
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#16 Old 06-12-2011, 11:36 PM
Take off, eh!
 
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^
what he said.

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#17 Old 08-28-2011, 12:45 AM
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Unhappy CLUTCH FAILURE... Low side ~ high pressure

Unfortunately... I'm back... but fortunately... u guys are very smart and were very helpful with your input & ideas. To be honest, I'd like to put the damn thing on a trailor and haul it to the scrap yard. However, it is in great shape for it's age and high mileage... never leaves me stranded but it will leave me HOT!! Anyway... air has been great... Not too long after putting the new compressor in, my site glass was not viewable... Evacuated the system, flushed, etc...glass viewable again... So things were fine... I had forgotten about my ac problems actually and then BAM... driving mid day, air is suddenly hot, ac button is blinking & I PANIC! Once I get home, pop the hood, turn the air on, clutch engages and then stops. It does NOT engage again on it's own. I press the ac button (turning it off), press it once to more to turn it back on and the clutch engages and then stops. So I turn it off... hook up the ac guages and turn the vehicle on (ac is off) low pressure is almost off the guage~ circled all the way around and the high side reads the same (but doesn't circle around on the guage). I was not able to get an accurate reading w my guages bc the compressor is on long enough. I checked my relays, even changed some around just to make sure, checked fuses, tried a little troubleshooting... tried to jump the clutch to engage and it would engage ONLY as stated above. I am assuming the lock out is activated bc of the pressure being so high on the low side? Well being that EVERY darn part on the ac w the exception of the ac lines~ are 3 months - less than a year old~IM DEVASTATED! I am in the midst of evacuating the system, flush lines, expansion valve checked, replacing drier AGAIN, replacing shredder valve on low port side (small leak), replacing AC filter.... I will charge it tomorrow to see if the clutch will engage as it should. I must say, the site glass was once again, not viewable! I have it clean now, however, it was dirty again... I don't understand why this continues to happen other than I still have NOT replaced the AC amplifier for the RECIRC mode. Any input about the clutch failure, pressure readings, the continous build up that I can't seem to flush out... will be greatly appreciated... Thank you in advance...
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#18 Old 08-28-2011, 03:33 PM
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Lesha, sorry to hear your woes continue....

You don't say what the gauge pressures are, but in a static AC system, *both* LOW and HIGH side will be the vapor pressure of R134 for whatever the under-hood temps are. Easily 140 PSI or more.

As for the AC light blinking, that is usually because the AC amplifier doesn't think the compressor is spinning. The compressor coil ring has a sensor that counts revolutions. If it has called for the compressor and it doesn't see the pulses, and in proportion to the engine RPM, it flashes the light and locks out the compressor.

The most common causes are

Serpentine belt slipping, water on belt, low tension

Clutch not engaging; coil failure, electrical, fuse or wiring problem. Clutch fuse is under the hood as I recall. Check clutch voltage right at coil.

Clutch engaging but not griping shaft plate resulting in low RPM; clutch gap clearance, low coil voltage, defective coil, clutch material worn. In severe cases you can see that compressor shaft isn't spinning at same speed as pulley.

Clutch engaging but compressor is bound up or locked up. Causes clutch to slip. This condition usually has lots of squealing and burnt smells from hot serpentine and clutch material.

The flashing *could* be that low side pressure drops quickly below 28 PSI, but I've never experienced that so don't know whether AC light blinks for that.

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Last edited by AVConsult; 08-28-2011 at 03:36 PM.
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#19 Old 08-28-2011, 11:30 PM
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Thank you for your reply. After evacuating and flushing the system... it still did not work. The compressor comes on, the shuts down... I check the light on the AC button and it is blinking. I can reset it by pressing it twice and it continues to do the same thing. I can not get a reading on my guages because the compressor will not stay on. the belt is not slipping, it is engaging but for some reason, the lock is activated as soon as the compressor clutch engages. Wiring was checked before putting the compressor on. it is less than 90 days old and was NOT a remanufactured one. A very strange thing did happen though... as freon was being put in the system, the compressor started making a funny clicking noise and then starts spewing out freon from it? I have since learned that it has a valve to release freon when the pressure gets too high? If so, why would or is the pressure getting so high? And one last question... when i changed out the dryer in the condensor... i did not take note of how the filter went in. I assume the screen faces the sock (dryer) in the condensor leaving the flat end to butt up to the end cap...

I guess it is possible that the compressor has just failed? I don't know... I am really really frustrated at this never ending problem.
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#20 Old 08-29-2011, 02:38 PM
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oooh, spitting freon is bad. Of course we weren't there, but that sounds like the compressor got a slug of liquid freon and tried to compress it. Compressors lose 6 of their 7 lives lives that way.

I hate to ask, but you're always holding the freon can right side up? How many can's of Freon are you putting in?

I'm still hedging that although the clutch is engaging the compressor shaft isn't spinning at target speed, and that

Does the LOW side drop and HIGH side increase at *all* when the compressor engages? Sounds like you need a friend to press the AC button while you read gauges/observe behavior.

How about a video with the compressor trying to engage? Your generic point and shoot cameras can take decent video for this purpose.

BTW, paragraphs are our friends.

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#21 Old 08-30-2011, 01:02 AM
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sorry for the delay in responding... Yes, I have had someone press the AC button while reading the guages and yes my low side does begin to drop & high side begins to rise but then the darn compressor kicks off again before the guage stops to give me a final reading. Yes, I hold the can upright... I will try my best to make a video tomorrow... Again... thanks for ur input. BTW ~ I did call the place I purchased the compressor from today & they will ship out a new one... However~ I still need to determine the cause... if the compressor has failed bc I can't continue to do this every other month...
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#22 Old 08-30-2011, 01:40 AM
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AV~ Looks like ur right about the RPM thing... Do you mind reading this article and letting me know if this is what u r talking about and giving me some guidance on troubleshooting and fixing it? I'll do the video tomorrow for u to c as well. ''Once again, the amplifier blinks the LED only when it senses that difference in rpm we discussed earlier.
If the lock sensor itself fails, the air conditioning amplifier shuts off the compressor clutch and blinks the LED. One quick way to simplify diagnosis is to carefully hot-wire the clutch with a fused jumper lead and run the compressor just long enough to see if its lock sensor generates a decent AC signal on the scope. If it doesn't, replace the sensor and retest.'' The entire article can be found here:
[URL="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3828/is_200206/ai_n9092114/"]
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#23 Old 08-30-2011, 03:25 PM
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Lesha--Dan is a great tech writer, and he's spot in in his approach. The only thing he doesn't emphasize is that the blinking AC light can be caused by mechanical problems with the compressor. Need to rule out first.

You can sometimes do that visually by painting a heavy line--white nail polish-- on the belt pulley and another at the center of the assy. Use a shop lamp with a compact fluro bulb--provides a 60 Hz strobe effect-- and shine at pulley. Fire up the compressor. The white lines (blurs) should not appear to rotate around each other, but remain stationary in relationship to each other. That indicates the clutch isn't slipping.

To see if the sensor is producing pulses, measure as Dan's article suggests. He doesn't say what the correct pulse amplitude or timing is--maybe the service manual says.

Before I did any of that, I'd pull the compressor harness coil/sensor connection and see if it's contaminated, corroded or otherwise compromised. Sometimes a little contact cleaner and exercising the plug makes it happy again.

If you hotwire the compressor clutch coil, I'd disconnect the harness connector so as not to blow up the ECU, and then make darn sure you identify the coil pins on the compressor side of the connector.

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#24 Old 08-30-2011, 04:24 PM
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I have the video ready but not quite sure how to upload it here...
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#25 Old 08-30-2011, 06:21 PM
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put it on youtube and copy link here

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#26 Old 08-30-2011, 09:28 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=7UsU1ID4Fc0

for some reason.. there is no sound.... but there is sound on my phone?
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#27 Old 08-30-2011, 10:10 PM
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Lesha, the video had sound, which told a lot. The compressor seems to be making typical pumping noises with no sounds of stress from either the compressor or belt. I could not see the sight glass, which is fine, as it probably wouldn't have had time to settle.

Have you removed the compressor electrical connector and inspected it?

Checked the compressor wiring all the way back as far as you can?

I looked into the electrical side a bit more; some Camry owners were complaining of a bad AC relay (in the underhood fuse box) that wasn't making all the way.

Several mentioned cleaning/replacing the cabin air filter for blinking AC light, although I'd be flummoxed as to how it would detect that *ever*, much less after the compressor has run for only a few seconds.

I'll keep looking.

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#28 Old 08-30-2011, 10:22 PM
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Huh, there a TB on this issue, related to the AC relay. Doesn't include '02 but see no reason this couldn't bee the issue


Technical Service - BULLETIN ELO11-05 June 3, 2005

’01 – ’04 Camry, ECHO, & Celica ‘02 – ’04 4Runner, Corolla, & MR2 Spyder
’03 – ’04 Highlander, Matrix, Sienna, & Solara

Introduction This bulletin is to provide information regarding countermeasures to the A/C magnetic clutch relay for A/C light flashing (inoperative A/C) issues on some vehicles equipped with a magnetic clutch compressor.

Applicable 2001 – 2004 model year Camry, ECHO, and Celica vehicles. Vehicles 2002 – 2004 model year 4Runner, Corolla, and MR2 Spyder vehicles. 2003 – 2004 model year Highlander, Matrix, Sienna, and Solara vehicles. Parts

PREVIOUS PART NUMBER CURRENT PART NUMBER PART NAME
90987–02022 90987–02028 Relay,


Locate the A/C magnetic clutch relay. Procedure 2. Verify the part number printed on the side of the relay.
A. If the part number is 90987–02022, please replace the relay with the countermeasured relay P/N 90987–02028.

B. If the part number does not match 90987–02022, then please diagnose problems by referring to the Technical Information System (TIS): applicable model year and vehicle Repair Manual: Air Conditioning: Troubleshooting.

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'01 Honda Civic
'93 Camry LE V6 (departed)

Last edited by AVConsult; 08-30-2011 at 10:53 PM.
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#29 Old 08-30-2011, 10:33 PM
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To manually override the AC relay in the underhood fuse box..

AC Relay spade footprint:

---- 3

---- 5

| ..... |
1 ..... 2


ref; Relay body is rectangular; the long dimension is from pin 3 to towards pin 1/2

Take a paper clip and jumper between relay socket slots 3 and 5.

If compressor stays engaged with no bad noises and the pressures start to normalize then it is a bad relay -OR-

The rotation sensor on the compressor may be bad. The only way to check that is to measure for pulses.

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'02 Highlander V6
'01 Honda Civic
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Last edited by AVConsult; 08-30-2011 at 10:50 PM.
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#30 Old 08-30-2011, 10:46 PM
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Compressor connector--looking into the harness connector

2 1
.3

Periods keep spacing--the forum editor whacks extra spaces...grrr

Pin 3 get +12v applied to the mag clutch when the AC relay closes. Ground is made through compressor body.

Rotation sensor out is apparently pins 2 and 3. No polarity indicated

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