Bought a used 2005 xB with turbo!

Hello all,

I am a happy owner of a silver 2005 Scion xB! I know alot of people don't like the way it looks but I like its funky design and I'm not the only one...coming from LA, there are lots of tough guys out there driving the xB too so you don't ever want to tell them their car looks like crap or they'll probably beat the crap out of you, hehe.

Now the car did come with a custom turbo setup which I wanted and knew that something like this would most likely void the warranty but I bought the car anyway. You can really feel when the boost kicks in and it sure feels good. I had the car dyno tested because I think the air to fuel ratio is too rich so I'm losing mpg though I haven't had the car long enough to see what my mpg is like. My maximum hp and torque is 143 and 144, respectively. The dyno test did show that the air to fuel ratio was indeed rich so I need to get it retuned. The car also has the Apexi Super AFC II which is probably what I need to retune. Aside from the turbo, the previous owners also installed larger injectors and I think fuel pump. The maximum boost is between 7-8 psi.

If you want to see a picture of the dyno results check here:
http://www.holywebdesign.com/miscpics/dyno.jpg

The next thing I want to do is upgrade the intake system. Anybody done that?

Also is there anybody in the Dallas/Fort Worth area? I really need to know where I can take this car to do some upgrades. BTW, I paid $13,000 for the car. Click here to see a pic of my car:
http://www.holywebdesign.com/miscpics/scion1.jpg

Very interesting, do you have any pics of the engine bay? Was this turbo a custom set up? I'd love to see some pics. As far as some upgrades, you can look for an intake, exhaust, or a pulley kit, all of which would get you a little bit quicker spooling for your turbo. Intakes and exhausts are plentiful for the scion line up, and as far as pulleys go I would recommend NST, www.NonStopTuning.com (http://www.NonStopTuning.com)

:thumbup:

http://www.holywebdesign.com/miscpics/enginebay.jpg
Check the above URL for a pic of the engine bay with the turbo. It was a custom setup. Generally everything runs fine, but I think the stock clutch is not built for this turbo because sometimes when I really floor it, it slips, this is more noticeable when the car has just warmed up (ie. the blue temperature icon goes away) or when I try to do a hard acceleration using 5th gear and at a low RPM like 2000-3000. So I've pretty much had to learn to know when and how to use the turbo.

Also my average MPG is 24-25mpg. This is most likely because I am running too rich like I mentioned before. I have not found anyone in the Fort Worth - Dallas area that knows how to use my apexi super air flow convertor...maybe I'll have to read up on instructions and try it myself..very carefully.

Congrats on the purchase. I have heard that the clutch will slip when boosted. Maybe look into an aftermarket clutch/pressure plate. I have seen that photo before and the reviews were not good...In other words, the owner was talking a lot of smack, if that makes sense. It is deffinitely 'custom' lol. For a lot more info on the xB, turbos on them, and anything Scion related, go to www.scionlife.com. There is a lot of info there. Good luck with it and maybe we'll run into you at a show or something!

PS...You are getting BETTER MPG than I am with N/A. I am running around 21-23 MPG for some reason.

21-23mpg? Hmmm, that's weird, and you don't have a turbo on there? When I use the turbo alot I do get around that too, ie. I was coming home from this retreat center late at night and would test the boost by passing cars when the passing lane came up and my speeds would be around 85+mph, and with that my mpg went down in the 21-22 mpg. I have played with my Apexi SFC-2 and lowered all the settings to -40% to trick the ECU into not using as much fuel, hopefully this will save me some mpgs and reduce the carbon particles coming out of my tailpipe...and the fuel smell too!

p.s. you've seen the picture of the engine bay before? When was this? And I guess I don't know what you meant by the owner talking alot of smack...was he putting everyone down or something? One thing for sure, the custom turbo setup doesn't really look that professional, but like I mentioned before, it works and it does surprise alot of people who think the car is slow plus it is fun to drive!

Yeah, I wasn't knocking your car by any means. I have seen that pic before and the person that posted it was flamed because it 'didn't look professional'...An exact quote was "it looks Ghetto"...and the smack talking was about the power being produced...but to each his own. I think it looks good as long as it works and it is more than a lot of people have done. It was on Scionlife, which is a GREAT website, but it also has its problems...Just like any forum. I will try to find the link to the thread for the pic I saw.

Here is the link. They are in lewisville? Tx. They, I think, are the ones that built that turbo, but the pics are gone. You might be able to look them up. I hope this link works...

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=69643&highlight=turbo++pics

DO you have a blue fuel line underneath that looks HUGE, like a battery cable running from the tank to the front? If so, then it's the same car...unless they changed it out.

Thanks, I was able to see the forum, well not the pics but the forum and I'm pretty sure it is the same because the lady I bought it from has the same name and the company is the same too. I'm surprised how some people just didn't believe the hp figures at all. The dyno that I posted was from a totally different company and the dyno proves the HP figures, but I think they did tone things down a bit because if I recall the dyno recorded a max output at 143hp. Also I don't know about the other stuff they added. I definitely could see the turbo, the huge tailpipe, but could not verify intercooler, larger fuel injectors, ram air (looks stock), but I haven't really looked at the engine bay with a fine tooth comb. Also, one thing I did not like and found out later, was that they took out the catalytic convertor which is illegal, and so I put one in which may have reduced the HP from the 156...but adding the convertor helped in making the car quieter...but I'm still thinking of buying one of those quiet performance mufflers to quiet it down more or a resonator thing.

Cool, I'm glad it worked for you. The main reason they were bashing it was the way it looked and that they wouldn't show a correct dyno with the correct parameters...date, time, power, torque, and the way it looked. I don't think it looks as clean as it could, but it is working and producing some good power.
That site is a good one, but they can be harsh on there and nobody is EVER wrong...or so they think. You can tell by the responses to that thread...LOL.
Maybe you can get with that company, RPMotorsports?, and see if they can dial it in for you? I am thinking they are near you? Anyway, good luck on the xB and maybe we'll see you at a show sometime!

On another note...There aren't too many successful turbos on the xB. And the one you bought was a 'ghinea pig' so to say. I say this because you may have issues down the road with reliability. They may have really overworked that thing and ran it hard to see how far they could go. Just keep your ears out and your oil changed!

Correct me if I'm wrong reading the A/F graph.

13:1 a/f !!! That's pretty lean for a turboed motor.
You want to be between 10.8-11.2:1 on pump gas to be safe.

Great buy by the way.

Although I can't tell by the pic, the way they have that airbox 'rigged' in there, I doubt it has an intercooler. Deffinitely look into that before going up on the boost.

Nad, I was thinking that was too rich, isn't it supposed to be near the stoichiometric level at like 14.7? Because I just programmed my SAFC2 to reduce the fuel output by having it reduce the output of the air sensor. I wanted to reduce the soot particles that come out and stick to the back of my rear door and try to reduce the backfires. Was I wrong then? The turbo seems to still run fine, though it's hard to tell without dynoing it again, which I don't want to do cuz it is expensive.

Slipknot, I did look carefully under the front bumper and did see an intercooler. At least I'm pretty sure it is the intercooler, it's definitely not the radiator. Also, I found out what they meant by ram air in the scionlife post...if you look at the air filter box, there is a big tube coming out of the front left side of it, if you follow that it stops just before the metal frame which the hood latch is on, it's just opened to the air like that. I'll see if I can post more pictures.

I'm 100% sure.

Lower the A/F are the richer it is.

I know it's expensive to dyno tune but it's more expensive blowing the motor.

If it does have an intercooler, it will have Radiator hose sized piping or tubing running from a radiator type part in the front to either the intake side of the turbo or the intake itself. I hope i got that right and am not confusing you, but it's hard to explain what to look for.

Nad, yes, the lower the A/F is the richer and the higher the leaner. So I guess for non-turbo you should shoot for 14.7, right? But what about for low throttle conditions where there is hardly any boost at all? Do you think I could be safe burning lean to save fuel? And when I'm at high throttle I could readjust the settings on the Apexi to increase the fuel. What do you think of that?

Slipknot, OK I'll look for those and I'll try to take pictures tomorrow, maybe you can look at it and tell me.

You should be fine off boost.

What are your high/low settings at ? I would go 20% low and 60% high.
I don't know what size injectors you have so I can't really gauge what your settings should be.
What rpm's do you get full boost at ? This is where you should start adding fuel since you graph was 13:1 to redline.

Again..you either need a wideband O2 hooked up or pay for a dyno tune.

Nad, thanks for your reply. From the scionlife forum the previous owner of the car said that the injectors were 28.8 pound. The way I have it setup is for low throttle, the "air correction factor" is -40%, the theory is the less air the ECU thinks it's getting the less fuel. For each RPM level it lets you specify how much air correction you want...for low throttle I just made it -40 all the way because at low throttle I'm going to be using hardly any boost and I figure the larger fuel injectors will spit out more gas than the factory fuel injectors.

For the High throttle setting, I saved the old figures, and it was as follows
800 rpm = +16
1600 rpm = -8
2200 rpm = -30
and it stays that way all the way to redline which is 6500 or 7000, I can't remember exactly. The thing I couldn't figure out was at close to idle, why would you want a + air correction factor which would mean more fuel? Woudn't you want that at the higher RPM ranges because wouldn't the turbo need more fuel at higher RPM and stay cool? For now I set the air correction factor as a straight line, I think I did between -20 and -30%, I can't remember off hand.

I couldn't get a good picture of the intercooler, I think I would have to take the front bumper off to do so...but I was able to take the picture below through the grill. Isn't that the intercooler and behind it you can see the radiator?
http://www.holywebdesign.com/miscpics/intercooler.jpg

OK don't laugh, this is my cold-air intake! I wonder how hard it will be to replace this with a normal cold-air intake, I'm sure it might be trickier compared to a stock xB without the turbo...right now, it looks like the turbo is connected to the stock air filter box and there is another tube connected to the air filter box too...which I am not what its function is, it's a smaller tube to the left of the "cold-air intake."
http://www.holywebdesign.com/miscpics/coldairintake.jpg

YEs, you have an intercooler, but I can't see how it is hooked up. The outlets look (in the pic anyway) like they are facing down towards the ground. And as far as that company's "ram air"...ummm, I don't think it can get any air there (at least not ANY cold air) because the upper grill is sealed off. I am in Louisiana (or will be before too long) I would love to see the set-up sometime!

BTW....BE CAREFUL!!!! I noticed in the pic of the engine bay that the upper plastic molding IS melted from I beleive to be the turbo. I would seriously invest in a fire extiguisher, and not the crhome Pep Boys ones..one that will save your car if need be!

Slipknot, if you are ever in my neighborhood, I'll be glad to show you my setup. Just email me: chorobe@yahoo.com and we can get eachother's contact info. I've been wondering about that insulation on the inside of the hood, I wonder if it will be fine removing it? Any thoughts on that, anybody? I know you can actually buy mirrors that go in the place of the insulation to enhance showing your car.

I just got a new cold air intake to replace my stock airbox one...but they had to still cut it up to make it fit with the turbo. I'll post pictures later...but the tuning shop confirmed that I was running too lean...the funny thing was according to their dyno, the amount was way off compared to the first dyno I posted. The first time my a/f averaged 13 but the 2nd time with another company it went as high as 15.5. This was inspite of my Apexi being turned up to the maximum correction of 50%...and still they told me basically that for some reason my fuel volume was dropping off most likely because the ECU was trying to take control. So they recommended i get a standalone haltech ECU which is really expensive, about $2800 including the installation...but that is way too much money for me to spend on this...so I have to think of alternatives...one of which may be to put a fuel return line and use a greddy emanage system as opposed to Apexi's (this is from a response I found in scionlife.com to someone who had similar problems as me). Any thoughts?

BTW, I compiled all the information from the previous owner's post to make a list of what was installed on this car, plus I did some research myself but here is what I have:

-Mitsubishi TD04 turbo S 49177-01900 at 7-8psi
-intercooler
-titanium muffler
-28.8lb (303cc) injectors
-Custom Shimmed Walbro 255 in-tank fuel pump
-cold air intake
-250psi fuel line
-NOS inline pump
-Apexi SAFC2
-turbo gauge

OK here is a picture of the intake now, also here is a picture of the grill. It looks like the previous owners cut out the grill so that air could flow through it. The tuning shop that installed the cold air intake yesterday recommended I cut out the grill even more so that more air could flow through.

http://www.holywebdesign.com/miscpics/grill.jpg

http://www.holywebdesign.com/miscpics/intake.jpg

Hey preacherboy...Check out this site...www.clubxb.com There are a few people on there that can help with the turbo on the xB. I know a little about turbos in general, but not enough about them to help you on the xB. Good luck with it and when we drive through Dallas, we'll try to hook up!

Also is there anybody in the Dallas/Fort Worth area? I really need to know where I can take this car to do some upgrades. BTW, I paid $13,000 for the car. Click here to see a pic of my car:
http://www.holywebdesign.com/miscpics/scion1.jpg

Try speedtek they are off 121 in Ft Worth.
http://www.speedtek.net/

to bad it f/ed up the eng bay .all go no show :rolleyes:

Man that thing is LEAN as hell, you need to add fuel or you risk serious engine damage. You gotta remember that AFR (air/fuel ratio) doesnt read fuel, it reads AIR. So a 16:1 would be 16 parts air to 1 part gas, but typically in boost i tune for around 12:1 - 12.5:1. 16:1 is dangerous even on a naturally aspirated engine under a load.

Oh yea, have fun doing spark plugs :)

Does it use any oil? Seems to me like that oil drain would be problematic, they are very finicky since the drain is completely gravity fed. Also watch the coil packs, they are very sensitive to excessive heat and i doubt that small shield is giving them much protection.

Sorry to bring this thread back, but I actually did a lot of work to this vehicle since my last post here...much of which is on the clubxb forum. I removed the custom turbo and put on a greddy turbo kit with haltech plus a whole lot more upgrades, ...basically fixed everything that was wrong with it...and it looked a whole lot better too! After I did all that, I had no more problems with it. Well, I did have one big problem, I moved to CA and of course there is no way I would get it smogged here, legally. So I ended up selling it for a really low price. Afterwards, I sure missed it. Well, at least the guy who bought it was totally satisfied!

Sorry to hear that you went through all that and it couldn't make it in CA.

What did you end up with?