So everyones happy bout the new camry.. what about the..

The corolla? ive been lurking around 9thgenerationcorolla.com or somthing like that, the redesign of the current corolla is due..07-08 maybe? anyone have some info on this?

not yet.. it should be 08 since they weren't happy with the design and went back to make changes.

Yep. They saw how much attention the new Civic drew at the autoshow and simply went back to the draving boards. The teaser I have seen from the first design looked a lot like the Yaris in the front with the 'nose' when seen from the side.

The corolla? ive been lurking around 9thgenerationcorolla.com or somthing like that, the redesign of the current corolla is due..07-08 maybe? anyone have some info on this?
The new design will be an 08 model.

Fan

The new design will be an 08 model.

Fan

New corolla will make its appearance in jan-feb of 07 as an 08 model. oh and just a rumour.....available with 2.5litre from IS for the XRS model.

Goddamn.. don't tease us like that.... but wow.. imagine.... STFU Si :nutkick:

All I want is an awd model corolla. They have them in japan . I am not picky lol

A good rule to follow is this:

The new Corollas always come out the year following the introduction of a new Camry. Look back to when the Camry was first introduced in 1983, a new Corolla followed in 1984. The pattern has been consistant since.

So in this case the new 2007MY Camry is going to be followed (in roughly one year) by a new, redesigned 2008MY Corolla.

Yeah but the released the 2003 Corolla in Feb 02.. waaay earlier than normal.

haha 2.5 litre XRS eh? would be nice but not far fetched since Nissan has a 2.5 litre in their Sentra SE-R models anyway.

yeah but the 2.5 in the IS is a V6 where the 2.5 in the Sentra is jsut a large displacement 4 cylinder right

true. Maybe it's the 2.4 litre then? But then, 2.4 litres and 158hp isn't that spectacular on a Corolla. A 2.0 litre with 150hp is probably more exciting (and more efficient too)

I've heard rumors of a G based VVTL-i or dual VVT-i AZ head. There's no proof, but seeing as the S series engine had at least one performance head, I believe Toyota will do the same with the AZs that replaced the S series engines. Whether it's the 2.0L 1AZ or the 2.4L 2AZ remains to be seen. The 1AZ is a square motor, so that seems more likely.

Just speculation. The Corolla has never been equipped with a V6, and for its market, I don't think it ever will be.

BTW, here are the JDM specs for the D-4 versions of both engines:

1AZ-FSE:
155hp @ 6000rpm
141lb-ft @ 4000rpm

2AZ-FSE:
163hp @ 5800rpm
170lb-ft @ 3800rpm

1AZ-GE (speculation, dual VVT-i):
210hp @ 7600rpm
160lb-ft @ 6400rpm

If Toyota uses both port and direct injection on the 1AZ-GE:
225hp @ 7800rpm
175lb-ft @ 6600rpm

2AZ-GE (speculation):
??

hopefully they dont give it a stupid digital speedometer like the new civics. i hate that two-tier cluster. :thumbdown

Yeah I agree...that's what turns me off with the new Civics. On additional note, Toyota will have to really be careful with the new Corolla because the new Civic is pretty popular.
Do u guys think Toyota will come out with a 200hp Corolla?

i beleive its possible, it wont interfere with any of their other products. but hopfully they wont price it like they did with the celica gts

Ditto. $34k for that Celica was pushing it.

I like that two-tiered cluster actually. Makes it easier to see your speed without looking down.

I hope they keep the 1zz-fe as the base model.. this engine is so economical a 2.0 would be a bad move.

True but the engine's output is pushing it unless they decide to upgrade it with dual VVT-i. I'm sure they can bore and stroke the 1.8 litre into a 2.0 litre and still keep the fuel mileage figures. Also with a 2.0 litre, we'll get more torque cause I'll presume the new Corolla will be heavier.

Boring and stroking the 1ZZ to a 2.0L would lead to reliability issues Toyota wouldn't want to deal with (thinning the cylinder liners, etc.). It's possible to run one reliably, but why do all of that when there's already a 2.0L in the stable? The 1AZ is a square motor, so it'll rev more reliably than the 1ZZ, and can match the 2ZZ in revs, while putting out more power.

As long as the Civic Si is out there, the 2ZZ is inadequate for the XRS. Toyota doesn't need VVTL-i to make a high performance engine, so bring in the dual VVT-i. If the 2.0L 5th Gen 3SGE can put out 210hp @ 7600rpm and 159lb-ft @ 6400rpm without lift control, then so can the 1AZGE. That's 13.5% more torque than the equivalent K20, and 600rpm less. It's also 26.1% more torque than the XRS's 2ZZGE, while also having more overall horsepower.

A good rule to follow is this:

The new Corollas always come out the year following the introduction of a new Camry. Look back to when the Camry was first introduced in 1983, a new Corolla followed in 1984. The pattern has been consistant since.

So in this case the new 2007MY Camry is going to be followed (in roughly one year) by a new, redesigned 2008MY Corolla.
That's pretty much how it goes. The Cressida/Avalon are redesigned 2 years before the Camry, then the Corolla is done a year after.

Boring and stroking the 1ZZ to a 2.0L would lead to reliability issues Toyota wouldn't want to deal with (thinning the cylinder liners, etc.). It's possible to run one reliably, but why do all of that when there's already a 2.0L in the stable? The 1AZ is a square motor, so it'll rev more reliably than the 1ZZ, and can match the 2ZZ in revs, while putting out more power.

As long as the Civic Si is out there, the 2ZZ is inadequate for the XRS. Toyota doesn't need VVTL-i to make a high performance engine, so bring in the dual VVT-i. If the 2.0L 5th Gen 3SGE can put out 210hp @ 7600rpm and 159lb-ft @ 6400rpm without lift control, then so can the 1AZGE. That's 13.5% more torque than the equivalent K20, and 600rpm less. It's also 26.1% more torque than the XRS's 2ZZGE, while also having more overall horsepower.

I see. Hmm, well I'm all for more torque. I do think the 2ZZ is a bit too much for today's type. I mean Honda dropped the Type R and there must be a reason for that. A 2.0 litre is perfectly fine for both CE/LE/S and XRS models, just tuned differently I guess. I wonder if there's a new Corolla/Altis in Asia. Our current model has been around since 2000!

Yeah you got your math going there. Now consider the weight of the 3S GE engine. The 3S GE Altezza (IS200) weighs almost the same as the 2JZ GE IS300 (3200 lbs) and has less torque. I have a race video done at JDM Tsukuba circuit and on a dragstrip between Altezza and Celica super strut (SS) 2ZZ GE. The Celica whooped the Altezza in the corners and on the straight line. Let me know if you want to see the video. So what is the point?

Sheer horsepower numbers are just for selling cars and nothing more. Yeah sure stock 2ZZ GE puts out 180 - 190 HP or so, but 2ZZ GE was not built for selling big horsepower numbers. It was built for what truly matters i.e. best power to weight ratio in it's class. It is written on the official technical development document. 2ZZ GE weighs only 2 lbs more than the 1ZZ engine was the reason why Lotus picked it over the heavy K20 motor. That is why Rolla XRSs are putting 14.8 - 14.9 sec timeslips with only exhaust and intake and dynoing between 168 - 170 whp (195 - 200 HP at the crank). There are heavily modded Celica GTSs putting down 190 whp (220 HP at the crank) that run 13s totally naturally aspirated. Again the weight of the car plays a major role. How else could a dimensionally much larger 2650 lbs Corolla XRS be 250 lbs lighter than a much smaller Civic Si??

With SRT-4s, WRXs etc. leading the performance compact market, a 200 HP Corolla will make no waves in the sport compact market. A 3000 lbs Corolla with 2.4 liter 200 HP and 160 ft lbs of torque is no better performance wise than a 2650 lbs Corolla XRS with 170 HP. If performance for XRS needs to be stepped up and compete against the leaders, they need to make a turbocharged (and AWD) XRS along the lines of the 3S GTE JDM Caldina.


As long as the Civic Si is out there, the 2ZZ is inadequate for the XRS. Toyota doesn't need VVTL-i to make a high performance engine, so bring in the dual VVT-i. If the 2.0L 5th Gen 3SGE can put out 210hp @ 7600rpm and 159lb-ft @ 6400rpm without lift control, then so can the 1AZGE. That's 13.5% more torque than the equivalent K20, and 600rpm less. It's also 26.1% more torque than the XRS's 2ZZGE, while also having more overall horsepower.

Ditto. $34k for that Celica was pushing it.

I like that two-tiered cluster actually. Makes it easier to see your speed without looking down.
I like the two-tiered gauge cluster too. Like you said, easier to read.

I just hope that on the new corolla doesn't have the center gauge thing going on. I don't like having to look over to the right to see how fast I'm going. Plus, it doesn't look right to have nothing behind the steering wheel except dashboard... Gauges are supposed to be there.

What about the supercharged Corolla T Sport from the UK?

Just wondering, if given a choice would you guys go for RWD or AWD? Taking fuel mileage, maintenance cost and I suppose power saps into consideration?

Hobo, yeah. I did have a Yaris as a courtesy car and yes I got used to the centre gauge pretty easily but I prefer it up closer to the windshield; makes it look like a HUD hehe.

Yeah the 2ZZ GE supercharged Corolla T Sport in Europe developed by Team Toyota Europe (TTE) is hot. Great combination between sportbike like high revving fun, lift and forced induction in one. It can run 0-60 in under 6 seconds. It puts out 225 HP@8000 rpm and 170 ft lbs of torque with 7 psi of boost and still weighs only 2750 lbs or so.

Unfortunately, like always they would never make a supercharged 2ZZ XRS version for North America.


What about the supercharged Corolla T Sport from the UK?

Just wondering, if given a choice would you guys go for RWD or AWD? Taking fuel mileage, maintenance cost and I suppose power saps into consideration?

Hobo, yeah. I did have a Yaris as a courtesy car and yes I got used to the centre gauge pretty easily but I prefer it up closer to the windshield; makes it look like a HUD hehe.

I like the two-tiered gauge cluster too. Like you said, easier to read.

I just hope that on the new corolla doesn't have the center gauge thing going on. I don't like having to look over to the right to see how fast I'm going. Plus, it doesn't look right to have nothing behind the steering wheel except dashboard... Gauges are supposed to be there.
Don't worry, the gauges will be where they've always been. It's only the Echo/xA/xB/Yaris that have the center gauge cluster.

don't be surprised by a late-coming 09 Rolla. Current sales are UP, instead of traditionally sloping down. Takaoka, Nummi and TMMC all have been struggling for output. TMMC especially has struggled to cope w/ the launch of their woodstock plant too. a hot Maz3, Civic & an unimpressed JPress have sent engineers back to their CATIA stations numerous times.

expect an 18"wheel AWD XRS Matrix.

expect XRS to carry 2AZ w/ a possible from-factory supercharger to give it 200hp.

expect a 1" ride height drop.

Cheers,

don't be surprised by a late-coming 09 Rolla. Current sales are UP, instead of traditionally sloping down. Takaoka, Nummi and TMMC all have been struggling for output. TMMC especially has struggled to cope w/ the launch of their woodstock plant too. a hot Maz3, Civic & an unimpressed JPress have sent engineers back to their CATIA stations numerous times.

expect an 18"wheel AWD XRS Matrix.

expect XRS to carry 2AZ w/ a possible from-factory supercharger to give it 200hp.

expect a 1" ride height drop.

Cheers,

yay :clap:

Where are you getting all of this from?? Could you please put a link to your source?? I would love to read Toyota's press release on this Or perhaps just making it all up?? If God forbid Toyota puts the 2AZ (I think same engine as the Scion TC engine) in a Corolla XRS, it will be another midsized engine with a 3000 lbs weight pretending to be a compact sport sedan that Scion TC already has been trying to become for a while now as all the lighter and more powerful Cobalt SS, WRX and SRT-4s will continue to trounce it all day long with the supercharger installed.




expect an 18"wheel AWD XRS Matrix.

expect XRS to carry 2AZ w/ a possible from-factory supercharger to give it 200hp.

expect a 1" ride height drop.

Cheers,

Yeah isn't the 2AZ a bit big for a Corolla? Yeah I know the Mazda3 and Lancer have big engines but big deal, Toyota knows how to extract useable power from a smaller, more efficient engine.

Yeah you got your math going there. Now consider the weight of the 3S GE engine. The 3S GE Altezza (IS200) weighs almost the same as the 2JZ GE IS300 (3200 lbs) and has less torque. I have a race video done at JDM Tsukuba circuit and on a dragstrip between Altezza and Celica super strut (SS) 2ZZ GE. The Celica whooped the Altezza in the corners and on the straight line. Let me know if you want to see the video. So what is the point?

I didn't wanna quote everything, but I know what you're saying. I'm not bashing the 2ZZ in any way, but if Toyota doesn't update it or tweak it, then there's no point for it to stay in the next Corolla XRS (if there is one). The weight difference of the 3SGE in comparison to the 2ZZ is considerable, since the former is an old iron block and the latter is all aluminum. That's why I think it's important for Toyota to produce a high performance AZ series engine, because of the weight savings the all aluminum block employs.

But also consider this:
If the IS200 had the 2ZZ, and the Celica SS had the 3SGE ... the Celica would whoop the Altezza even harder. The weight gain on the Celica would be around 50-100lbs, which would bring it to around 2600lbs, while the Altezza would shed a few pounds and bring itself under 3000lbs. The MR2 was also available with the redtop 200hp/155lb-ft 3SGE (~2700lbs), and I'm sure, that too would whoop on the Altezza with the blacktop 3SGE and give the Celica with the 2ZZ some trouble. That MR2 pulls high 14's just like the turbo, stock.

Anyway, all I'm saying is that if Toyota wants to play in the Civic's market, they're going to have to move to a 2.0L for the XRS. The 1ZZ should be updated to push 145hp too, and that's easy since the Celica's 1ZZ variant pushed 140hp under the non-revised SAE ratings.

Torque is relative to the weight of the car, which is why the Elise is so much faster off the line than the Corolla or Celica. If the 1AZGE makes production, it should have specs similar to the outgoing blacktop 3SGE with the weight savings of an all aluminum block. If Toyota keeps the Corolla under 2600lbs, produces the 1AZGE with 210hp/160lb-ft, then it'll absolutely kill the Civic Si. Because the Si, with its 139lb-ft and 2900lbs of heft to pull, will get whooped on by the Corolla throughout the rev range, all because torque is relative to weight. And what is horsepower? Torque over time.

With your weight assumptions, you are correct. I beg to differ on the weight assumptions however. The Altezza (IS) dimensionally is smaller than the Corolla and a bit bigger than the Celica, but weighs 600 lbs more than the Corolla and 700 lbs more than the Celica due to the weight of the engine and rear wheel drive configuration primarily, 2 doors impractical sports coupe and a practical 4 door sport sedan. I personally find it hard to believe that Celica will weigh only 2600 lbs with the 3S GE. I believe 3S GE will increase the weight up to 2800 - 2850 lbs while the Altezza will be down to around 3000 lbs with 2ZZ GE.

However, if Toyota can make a 2.0 liter engine with lift and dual vvt-i, which will allow valve timing at the low on both exhaust and intake cams for optimal torque from 3S GE and 2ZZ GE high cam lift on both exhaust and intake for a killer horsepower and torque up top with around 3S GE's 207 - 210 HP while keeping weight of the car less than 2750 lbs then it is a killer combination.

To reiterate I said before, sadly with all the Neon SRT-4s, Imprezza WRXs, Lancer EVOs etc. leading the pack, they need to use 3S GTE motor with AWD from the Caldina to the tune of around 280 HP or so is the only way Toyota is going to give these cars a run for their money.



But also consider this:
If the IS200 had the 2ZZ, and the Celica SS had the 3SGE ... the Celica would whoop the Altezza even harder. The weight gain on the Celica would be around 50-100lbs, which would bring it to around 2600lbs, while the Altezza would shed a few pounds and bring itself under 3000lbs. The MR2 was also available with the redtop 200hp/155lb-ft 3SGE (~2700lbs), and I'm sure, that too would whoop on the Altezza with the blacktop 3SGE and give the Celica with the 2ZZ some trouble. That MR2 pulls high 14's just like the turbo, stock.
.

SRT-4, WRX maybe.. but STi/Evo is pushing it lol.

I agree that a 2.0 litre with dual VVT-i and direct injection will be more than plenty. A normal two litre can get what... 140-150hp? dual VVT-i and direct injection will probably bump it close to 200hp and with the added benefit of more torque than the Civic Si. I just hope the new Corolla isn't that heavy. It's been putting on quite a bit of weight.

Toyota is making Dual VVT-i standard right across the board on every next generation model i.e. 2006 Avalon, Camry, IS350, Rav4, GS430 and 300, ES350 etc. all have dual VVT-i. It is almost guaranteed the next Corolla will have a dual VVT-i.

SRT-4, WRX maybe.. but STi/Evo is pushing it lol.

I agree that a 2.0 litre with dual VVT-i and direct injection will be more than plenty. A normal two litre can get what... 140-150hp? dual VVT-i and direct injection will probably bump it close to 200hp and with the added benefit of more torque than the Civic Si. I just hope the new Corolla isn't that heavy. It's been putting on quite a bit of weight.

but all those cars have V6 engines. The 2AZ didn't get dual VVT-i

So??? 3S GE is 4 cylinder and has dual vvt-i. dual vvt-i is regular vvt-i with the only difference of variable valve timing on both exhaust and intake cams instead of only the intake cam that regular vvt-i uses.

2AZ is an old motor. 2AZ and 5 speed transmission were developed for the Camry I4 exclusively back in 2000 - 2001. It has been around in the Camry I4 since then and then transplanted to the Scion TC unchanged.

Corolla is one of Toyota's bread and butter car. Toyota Corolla will get a exclusively developed brand new motor that will definitely have dual vvt-i.

but all those cars have V6 engines. The 2AZ didn't get dual VVT-i

ohhh it's getting a new motor lol. Sorry, I was under the impression that they were gonna use a current motor.

The 4th Generation 3SGE only had single VVT-i, and this was used primarily in transversely mounted applications like the Celica ST20x and MR2 SW20. It was rated at 200hp @ 7000rpm / 155lb-ft @ 6x00rpm, but is VERY hard to find.

The addition of dual VVT-i bumped horsepower up 10 to 210, and torque by 4 to 159. This 3SGE was only used in RWD applications.

I think Toyota should drop electronic lift control altogether, because it makes the engine too peaky. With dual VVT-i, the result is a smooth increase in power that's consistent with little to no power drop off. This gives drivers more flexibility, since valve timing can be adjusted to provide optimum low-mid range torque during normal driving.

With such stringent emissions, the 3SGTE will never see the light of day here in the States. Toyota has made it clear that it will not offer new turbocharged engines in the future. The 1JZ/2JZGTE and 3SGTE are the last remaining turbo engines in Japan, excluding diesels.

The Civic Si is already proving popular. There's a 4-6 month wait depending on your area. So, I wonder what Toyota will do.

3S GE
210 ps = 206 HP@7600rpm

Dual VVT-i is most effective at the low and midrange rpm since it controls valve timing, which in turn improves torque and high rpm horsepower to a certain extent. That makes it ideal for a low revving car rather than a high revving car. It will never replace the strength that a seperate dedicated high rpm cam lift has to offer for strong and consistent top end rpm horsepower and torque especially for an 8400 rpm revving car. It was initially derived from sport motorbikes and implemented into cars by Honda and Porsche. Honda has built an entire reputation around it's aggresive variant of i-VTEC and VTEC in performance cars like S2000, RSX Type S, Integra Type R etc. All of which rev over 8000 rpm. Toyota was the first to combine valve timing with cam lift (VVTL-i).





I think Toyota should drop electronic lift control altogether, because it makes the engine too peaky. With dual VVT-i, the result is a smooth increase in power that's consistent with little to no .

i found this pic that is supposedly what the new corolla will look like

http://forums.autoweek.com/servlet/JiveServlet/download/31-18608-404309-14544/2007%20TOYOTA%20COROLLA.jpg

I hope not! 2 words: butt & ugly

Maybe that's why they wernt back to the drawing board

That's an old concept pic. I think Toyota will match Honda in displacement at 2.0 liters though. Not sure what they'll pick, but management won't cede any ground to Honda. That's just the way they are with Honda, and the same is true with Honda regarding Toyota. They'll go at each other till the end of time.

What I'd like to see in the US market is the Corolla 3-door hatch from Europe, with or without a SC, and it'd be nice if they threw in the SMG too. :) But that'd be a niche vehicle, something Toyota doesn't do in the US. If Toyota really wanted to cause a stir they'd put the Corolla on a diet and make it RWD again, but they'll never do that as long as FWD sells like hotcakes. Now that would be a niche vehicle, but it's an 86 owner's wet dream. :D

Maybe that's why they wernt back to the drawing board

thank god if thats the case

New corolla will make its appearance in jan-feb of 07 as an 08 model. oh and just a rumour.....available with 2.5litre from IS for the XRS model.

Which is probably just a rumour since the 2.5L motor in the IS is RWD... but I guess they could use it in a FWD setup.

so much talk about the 3sgte and 3sge engines, that it wouldnt be surprising if some all aluminum engine was created following the 3sge engine designs and technology.

3S GE
210 ps = 206 HP@7600rpm

Dual VVT-i is most effective at the low and midrange rpm since it controls valve timing, which in turn improves torque and high rpm horsepower to a certain extent. That makes it ideal for a low revving car rather than a high revving car.

Toyota's dual VVT-i is pretty advanced, since it can advance and retard valve timing for emissions purposes, low-mid range response, and high end power on both camshafts. It is comparable to VVTL-i in power output per liter, as arbitrary as that is.

And, you don't have to wait for it to "kick in."

Toyota's latest crowning achievement and first performance oriented F head. 2GR-FSE, dual VVT-i, D-4 and port injection.
http://toyota.jp/crownathlete/dynamism/engin/image/p01.jpg

Here's the Red Top 200ps/196hp 3SGE with single VVT-i. ~165whp.
http://lander.tuning.cz/images/graph.jpg

Modified 2ZZ - ported header, leaner a/f, custom intake. Stock 2ZZ's usually dyno around 150-155whp.
http://members.aol.com/matrixlikewhoa/newmatrixdyno.jpg

From the 3SGE and 2ZZ dynos, you can see that the 3SGE isn't as lazy off the line as the 2ZZ. This can be partly attributed to displacement gain, but is most likely caused by engine design, aggressive VVTL-i mapping, and camshafts. I would expect more torque from the smaller camshaft, but that's not the case. This makes the 2ZZ better suited for lightweight cars. This is also why Toyota revised the Corolla XRS's 2ZZ camshafts and ECU to provide better low-end torque at the expense of high end power.

My reasoning for using the 2GR-FSE as an example is to show dual VVT-i is capable of high RPM power. Toyota is currently finalizing the racing version of the 2GR-FSE, based off of the production version, which produces over 400hp @ 8000rpm. Torque should be in the low-mid 300s. On the dyno graph, the engine is still capable of producing healthy amounts of torque beyond its rev limit.

Forgot to add that Toyota's dual VVT-i implementation is comparable to BMW's Double VANOS, most notably used in the 333hp 3.2L M3, and now the 500hp 5.0L M5. Better valvetrain flexibility enables this. We'll be seeing more dual VVT-i engines coming from Toyota, beginning with the new 4.6L V8, and possibly a Tundra powertrain.

I hope not! 2 words: butt & ugly

Thats 3 words: butt=1 &=and=2 ugly=3