2008 Supra ain't no Urban Legend anymore [Archive]

xpeed

10-07-2006, 01:29 PM

Road & Track Magazines

It comes as no surprise that Toyota has something up its sleeve int he mid-price range sports-car segment. As Nissan's 350z keeps rolling year after year with solid sales numbers and a growing fan base, Toyota has had no answer; the most sporting model in the current lineup is the TRD Tacoma pickups, as the company's sporting cars namely the Celica and Supra, are no longer around. But things may change dramatically very soon. As we reported several months ago, plans are under way for a new Supra. And we've discovered thatthe new Supra has the makings of something very special. Toyota is pulling no punches with this car. Simply put, it plans to take over the mid-price sports-car segment. The new Supra which we predict will go on sale in early 2008, will be powered by a naturally aspirated 3.5 liter V-6 (2GR-FSE in the GS350) The specially tuned version of this all-aluminum powerplant is expected to produce 350bhp at 7000 rpm and about 290 lb-ft of torque at 5000. Combine this with a curb weight of about 3200 lb, and you have a car that could run to 60 mph in the mid-4.0 secs. making it quicker than the current 350z. There is still the possibility that Toyota will jam its 4.3 liter V-8 into the engine bay, but not until later in its life cycle. The V-6 may come mated to a twin-clutch 6-speed manual transmission like the DSG used in the Audi and Volkswagon. Because the Supra will be built on the current Lexus IS platform, it will no doubt come with the same basic suspension setup upper and lower A-arms up rear. However, we hear that Toyota engineers are busy tuning it to handle with the best sports cars in Europe. The new Supra is experted to come in both coupe and convertible versions or perhaps as a retractable hardtop, with the price tag under that of the 350z. Think of it; a new sports-car priced in the low-$30,000 range with the handling and power-to-weight ratio of a car-and with Toyota reputation. It's a car that'll grab the attention of any enthusiast.

RningOnFumes

10-07-2006, 01:32 PM

Yippweee....and does that mean we get an ISCoupe?

Toysrme

10-07-2006, 01:47 PM

Jegan_V

10-07-2006, 02:55 PM

This might be a shocker, but that sounds pretty lame to me. Just an attempt to get a name out there. To add onto that, Minus an IS500 based 5.0L version it sounds like it can't out-spec the old supra. So my question back to Toyota is, "Why bring back something if you don't plan on really topping what you've already done?".
"More of the same" may garner Toyota #1 auto sales by using the Camry & 'Rolla platforms to conquor the world, but that doesn't work with sports cars for long...
I'm in agreement, this seems more of a disappointment. Using an FE engine instead of a GE engine...not going to be very super at all compared to what it could be or used to be in the case of the Mk IV. I was hoping they would continue with the straight 6 and not let the JZ family die but it seems to be the case. To a sports car driver, fuel economy is probably the lowest of all priorities. This used to be a flagship Toyota, now from what it seems is just a cut down priced IS. I hope for the car's sake they stop thinking about the DSG and just give it a proper manual.

SILVERadoTACOMA

10-07-2006, 02:58 PM

On sale in early '08??? that basically means they have almost all of the design finished and tooling up for production.... so where's the spy pics? I wanna see some pics! :)

trxr

10-07-2006, 03:40 PM

thread is worthless without real pics!

situman

10-07-2006, 03:51 PM

I'm in agreement, this seems more of a disappointment. Using an FE engine instead of a GE engine...not going to be very super at all compared to what it could be or used to be in the case of the Mk IV. I was hoping they would continue with the straight 6 and not let the JZ family die but it seems to be the case. To a sports car driver, fuel economy is probably the lowest of all priorities. This used to be a flagship Toyota, now from what it seems is just a cut down priced IS. I hope for the car's sake they stop thinking about the DSG and just give it a proper manual.

Have you looked at the specs??? The preliminary specs look pretty impressive already. What's wrong with a 350hp engine? What's wrong with expected performance to be in the Mid 4 sec range to 60mph? I'm sure you've seen the performance of this engine in the IS350, what's there to complain about? The 350Z underperformed compared to its last gen and it sold better than ever. Now the new Supra will outperform the previous gen and costs about 15K LESSSS. More performance for less money sounds like a winning formula to me.

xpeed

10-07-2006, 04:49 PM

I thought you guys already seen it. It's the most recent red concept shown months ago, but if not, here it is again.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y78/xpeed/Supra.jpg

darksparkz

10-07-2006, 05:02 PM

No turbo? I also think they should bring back the JZ family with the straight 6s, but then I guess the V configuration is more popular now.

Yota4Ever

10-07-2006, 05:32 PM

Yummy.......I'm sure the Celica will be back too :) Companies have a way of doing away with models then bringing them back.

Bahraini_Zupra

10-07-2006, 05:38 PM

Shit cant wait

thanks for posting

EchoHoLiK

10-07-2006, 06:13 PM

Have you looked at the specs??? The preliminary specs look pretty impressive already. What's wrong with a 350hp engine? What's wrong with expected performance to be in the Mid 4 sec range to 60mph? I'm sure you've seen the performance of this engine in the IS350, what's there to complain about? The 350Z underperformed compared to its last gen and it sold better than ever. Now the new Supra will outperform the previous gen and costs about 15K LESSSS. More performance for less money sounds like a winning formula to me.
Generally people usually find stuff to bitch about, and typically these are the people that won't buy a car like the Supra :cool:

Toysrme

10-07-2006, 06:38 PM

I'm in agreement, this seems more of a disappointment. Using an FE engine instead of a GE engine...not going to be very super at all compared to what it could be or used to be in the case of the Mk IV. I don't agree with that at all. The reason Toyota doesn't really make anymore GE heads is because the FE heads & havetrains have surpassed them.
There was never much differances in what the better FE heads could do VS what the GE heads could do. The differance in performance came from your typical FE cam using .30-.32" lift with only 228-232* of duration on weak cam profiles.
Besides. Minus the 2.5L 4gr-fse. Every GR block v6 wipes the floor with any "GE" head minus the 2jzgte that's even been produced. All the "performance" engines being narrow angle at this point should say something. Even the last GE heads were not nearly as wide in valve angles as earlier heads.
Narrow angle heads overall have more benifits for less tradeoffs than wide angle heads.

AFA the 2gr-fse VS 2jz-gte. The 2gr-fse is very close in power/torque production. With all due respect to both, the 2gr-fse is likely the more responcive engine. it would be very interesting to see an old supra at a racetrack race with a stock 2jz-gte, then swap in a 2gr-fse.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v414/Toysrme/Data/2jzgteVS7mgte.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v414/Toysrme/Data/2grfse-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v414/Toysrme/Data/2grfse-2.jpg

My point was simply that why sell the supra now? They're selling so few IS350's right now already... (Hovering around 1,000 units a month.) A supra isn't going to go flying off the showroom floors to be profitable. Nor is Toyota a "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" company. If it comes bakc, it's just to bring back a name. Not exactly something I can respect.
The 3uz-fe is an interesting engine choice for future versions. Tho one would greatly hope to see the 4.6L, or 5.0L v8 installed in its place as the 3uz-fe will be out of mass production by then.

situman citing the 350z as an example is not the best vision. The 350z is not some runaway success like the press would like people to believe. Nissan has YET to sell 60,000 350z's in a single year WORLDWIDE. Toyota sells nearly as many camry's in a single month in North America as Nissan sells 350z/fairlady's worldwide. Likewise, Toyota Motor Corp usa sells as many vehicles in one month as Nissan averages worldwide sales in a fiscal year.

darksparkz - I guess it would be fun to see an updated version just to see what Toyota would decide to do. In all seriousness, I do not think the i6's will last too much longer as a commonly found production car engine. They're more costly, slower in power delivery (more recipricating mass, more mass period) & do not offer any noteable advantage against other designs of today. There are too many people making superior v6 & v8 engines that are much smaller in packaging.
Sad, but true.

Bahraini_Zupra

10-07-2006, 07:29 PM

But Dont forget the allmighty JZ potintial ! recorded 1075 WHP on STOCK INTERNALS !
Please i dont wanna see any NA supras in the future :(

I don't agree with that at all. The reason Toyota doesn't really make anymore GE heads is because the FE heads & havetrains have surpassed them.
There was never much differances in what the better FE heads could do VS what the GE heads could do. The differance in performance came from your typical FE cam using .30-.32" lift with only 228-232* of duration on weak cam profiles.
Besides. Minus the 2.5L 4gr-fse. Every GR block v6 wipes the floor with any "GE" head minus the 2jzgte that's even been produced. All the "performance" engines being narrow angle at this point should say something. Even the last GE heads were not nearly as wide in valve angles as earlier heads.
Narrow angle heads overall have more benifits for less tradeoffs than wide angle heads.

AFA the 2gr-fse VS 2jz-gte. The 2gr-fse is very close in power/torque production. With all due respect to both, the 2gr-fse is likely the more responcive engine. it would be very interesting to see an old supra at a racetrack race with a stock 2jz-gte, then swap in a 2gr-fse.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v414/Toysrme/Data/2jzgteVS7mgte.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v414/Toysrme/Data/2grfse-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v414/Toysrme/Data/2grfse-2.jpg

My point was simply that why sell the supra now? They're selling so few IS350's right now already... (Hovering around 1,000 units a month.) A supra isn't going to go flying off the showroom floors to be profitable. Nor is Toyota a "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" company. If it comes bakc, it's just to bring back a name. Not exactly something I can respect.
The 3uz-fe is an interesting engine choice for future versions. Tho one would greatly hope to see the 4.6L, or 5.0L v8 installed in its place as the 3uz-fe will be out of mass production by then.

situman citing the 350z as an example is not the best vision. The 350z is not some runaway success like the press would like people to believe. Nissan has YET to sell 60,000 350z's in a single year WORLDWIDE. Toyota sells nearly as many camry's in a single month in North America as Nissan sells 350z/fairlady's worldwide. Likewise, Toyota Motor Corp usa sells as many vehicles in one month as Nissan averages worldwide sales in a fiscal year.

darksparkz - I guess it would be fun to see an updated version just to see what Toyota would decide to do. In all seriousness, I do not think the i6's will last too much longer as a commonly found production car engine. They're more costly, slower in power delivery (more recipricating mass, more mass period) & do not offer any noteable advantage against other designs of today. There are too many people making superior v6 & v8 engines that are much smaller in packaging.
Sad, but true.

Hemi3TC

10-07-2006, 07:50 PM

Supra is a well known name since the 70s that will sell. Lots of people can not afford to buy a Porche, BMW coupe or even a 350Z. But if the Supra comes in with a low enough price with decent performance then a lot of new buyers will show up. As with all manufacturers, a faster Supra with a more powerful engine will be made to compete at the top end.

But for now, a low priced Supra with decent performance is what alot of people want. The IS350 is a luxury car. The Supra hopefully will be about sport as in sports car without alot of dead weight. Since most
of the platform and parts are already from IS, the new Supra does not have to be sold at a high price to be profitable.

My point was simply that why sell the supra now? They're selling so few IS350's right now already... (Hovering around 1,000 units a month.) A supra isn't going to go flying off the showroom floors to be profitable. Nor is Toyota a "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" company. If it comes bakc, it's just to bring back a name. Not exactly something I can respect.

Hemi3tc

Yota4Ever

10-07-2006, 08:14 PM

Supra is a well known name since the 70s that will sell. Lots of people can not afford to buy a Porche, BMW coupe or even a 350Z. But if the Supra comes in with a low enough price with decent performance then a lot of new buyers will show up. As with all manufacturers, a faster Supra with a more powerful engine will be made to compete at the top end.

But for now, a low priced Supra with decent performance is what alot of people want. The IS350 is a luxury car. The Supra hopefully will be about sport as in sports car without alot of dead weight. Since most
of the platform and parts are already from IS, the new Supra does not have to be sold at a high price to be profitable.

Hemi3tc

The Celica is from the 70's........Supra was born in the 80's And that's why I believe the Celica will be back a la Charger.

ECHOKnight2000

10-07-2006, 08:27 PM

EchoHoLiK

10-07-2006, 09:18 PM

I don't get it...people bitch about Toyota not having a "real" sports car in the stable and now they will. But of course people have to bitch about that too, why all the hate? Just MY observation, people seem positive when GM comes out with a sports car (newer GTO exception) but when Toyota finally does, oh no, this is not good. Meaning the big3 are pumping out performance cars left and right and when Toyota finally does or at least gets back in the game people hate, I'm NOT saying you can't have your opinions and have to like the new one but sheesh! Oh well maybe I'm wrong. But I'm happy they're coming out with it...obviously you might not like the new one cause you're comparing it to the old, MOVE ON! It's a DIFFERENT car!! Same name (or so they say) but DIFFERENT CAR!
Sorry I had to rant.
I hear ya.

People that bitch a lot actually don't know what they're talking about. It's funny how people are now bitching about what type of cylinder head the engine will have, and why it won't work or why they won't like it. The last time I checked these people ain't car designers and engineers, and even if they are they're not working in the automotive field. They can bitch all they want, doesn't mean they have a clue what they're banging on about.

"Why is it still a FE-head and not a GE-head?" :rolleyes: Almost sounds like a whining cry from a helpless baby "Why can't I suck on my mama's titties and instead I have to suck on the bottle??"......

Jegan_V

10-07-2006, 09:36 PM

I don't agree with that at all. The reason Toyota doesn't really make anymore GE heads is because the FE heads & havetrains have surpassed them.
There was never much differances in what the better FE heads could do VS what the GE heads could do. The differance in performance came from your typical FE cam using .30-.32" lift with only 228-232* of duration on weak cam profiles.
Besides. Minus the 2.5L 4gr-fse. Every GR block v6 wipes the floor with any "GE" head minus the 2jzgte that's even been produced. All the "performance" engines being narrow angle at this point should say something. Even the last GE heads were not nearly as wide in valve angles as earlier heads.
Narrow angle heads overall have more benifits for less tradeoffs than wide angle heads.

AFA the 2gr-fse VS 2jz-gte. The 2gr-fse is very close in power/torque production. With all due respect to both, the 2gr-fse is likely the more responcive engine. it would be very interesting to see an old supra at a racetrack race with a stock 2jz-gte, then swap in a 2gr-fse.

Thanks I ended up being mis-informed on this end. Although I guess this perhaps means Toyota isn't planning to use the straight-6 anymore.

"Why is it still a FE-head and not a GE-head?" :rolleyes: Almost sounds like a whining cry from a helpless baby "Why can't I suck on my mama's titties and instead I have to suck on the bottle??"......
Look, I was merely asking why and therefore I got an answer. Did I whine you like you said did? Isn't this supposed to be a place to learn and share information about Toyotas? When has this place become a place to go "Oh no I don't like what he said he's a whiner!! Lets tar and feather him!" Is it a sin in this place to be wrong? Jeez.

Thundercat

10-07-2006, 09:44 PM

That article from Road & Track sounds pretty dumb. A 10 year old coulda wrote that "rumor" The 4.3 V8...hahha that woudnt happen that engine is near the end, and going out. I still think that we have to look at the Market and see how a Supra would fit. It would have to be different from the IS too some extent. I dont think they would offer a V8 or anything too radical besides the V6, cuz after that you would be getting into Lexus territory way too much....

See the times have changed, when the MKIV was for sale it was Toyota group's flagship sports car, but see now if it were to come to the market it can NO longer be the flagship model. The reason is that Lexus is going to have their own super sports car...although not called that Supra, the Lexus sports car is the True Heir to the Supra Family dating back to the 2000GT...people need to understand this and perhaps it would be better not to bring back the name Supra into Toyota since that would deminish what it used to be....The true "Next Supra" WILL be a LEXUS!

Yota4Ever

10-07-2006, 09:59 PM

grumbles

10-07-2006, 10:35 PM

ryanmartini

10-07-2006, 10:47 PM

I don't get it...people bitch about Toyota not having a "real" sports car in the stable and now they will. But of course people have to bitch about that too, why all the hate? Just MY observation, people seem positive when GM comes out with a sports car (newer GTO exception) but when Toyota finally does, oh no, this is not good. Meaning the big3 are pumping out performance cars left and right and when Toyota finally does or at least gets back in the game people hate, I'm NOT saying you can't have your opinions and have to like the new one but sheesh! Oh well maybe I'm wrong. But I'm happy they're coming out with it...obviously you might not like the new one cause you're comparing it to the old, MOVE ON! It's a DIFFERENT car!! Same name (or so they say) but DIFFERENT CAR!
Sorry I had to rant.

People bitch because they dont want to drive a Toyota Mustang... Woohoo lets give a 2 door coupe and if you play nice, we might throw in a v8... Most supra enthusiasts would kill for that car if it came with a boosted 6. If toyota wants to enter a real sports car, they should step up instead of trying to respond to the 350Z for times sake, and not what customers want..

Hey toyota, if your reading this, you want sports car success? Put a new version of the 2jz in that bad boy, a 6 spd behind it, and keep the price in the id to low thirtys for a N/A and turbo version, and you will dominate.

But of course as usual of late, Toyota doesnt care about what its customers want if they dont drive 4 door sedans.

EchoHoLiK

10-07-2006, 11:07 PM

Look, I was merely asking why and therefore I got an answer. Did I whine you like you said did? Isn't this supposed to be a place to learn and share information about Toyotas? When has this place become a place to go "Oh no I don't like what he said he's a whiner!! Lets tar and feather him!" Is it a sin in this place to be wrong? Jeez.
Look, I wasn't trying to be personal. Unfortunately, you've set a prime example of what I'm talking about.

Bottomline is, who cares? You should be glad if Toyota actually pull through with producing the next Supra (or whatever they're gonna call it). Personally I can really care less about things as petty as what type of engine Toyota will be putting in, or what sorts of transmission it'll be. Having said that, it's fine if they want to stick a semi-auto in it as long as they give you the choice of a proper manual as well. The bottomline is that if Toyota puts out this car properly, and it drives and handles properly like it should, then I'll be happy about such a car. It's better to have a car with a proper engine that works well with the chassis, rather than the engine alone being the star but lacking coherence with the chassis and driving dynamics.

Toysrme

10-07-2006, 11:34 PM

But Dont forget the allmighty JZ potintial ! recorded 1075 WHP on STOCK INTERNALS !
Please i dont wanna see any NA supras in the future :(
And nothing of that drove supra's to sell enough to stay a production car... *Potential* doesn't garner car sales. What the stock car does drives sales. If *potential* sold cars, we'd all drive 2000whp awd Miatas.
Supra is a well known name since the 70s that will sell. Lots of people can not afford to buy a Porche, BMW coupe or even a 350Z. But if the Supra comes in with a low enough price with decent performance then a lot of new buyers will show up. As with all manufacturers, a faster Supra with a more powerful engine will be made to compete at the top end.
But for now, a low priced Supra with decent performance is what alot of people want. The IS350 is a luxury car. The Supra hopefully will be about sport as in sports car without alot of dead weight. Since most
of the platform and parts are already from IS, the new Supra does not have to be sold at a high price to be profitable.
Hemi3tc
My problem with that is how can someone define "low cost". The pair of IS's are already less expencive than the last supras were. How much cheaper can the market bare the car to be made?

Ill let it go from here, but mark my words. Toyota will struggle to sell 7,500 of them a month. In my mind, to be sucessful in sales they'll have to price the thing in line with a v6 Camry XLE. To be successful in profits. It'll have to be closer to loaded IS250 / Base IS350 pricing. I simply don't see them selling many of the cars @ that pricing.

repinS

10-08-2006, 12:50 AM

Not believing much until I see it straight from Toyota's mouth.

NA only? I don't mind - throwback to the proper (very IMO, don't shoot me :rolleyes: ) Supra days:

http://2759.thequietrevolution.ca/images/ma61_autox.jpg

Corona67

10-08-2006, 02:09 AM

I thought you guys already seen it. It's the most recent red concept shown months ago, but if not, here it is again.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y78/xpeed/Supra.jpg

Looks to me that if this is the concept, they've already planned a retract-hardtop...note the thin seam at the top of the windshield & over the B-pillar. (I didn't notice those last time I saw the pic.)

If they build this car, I think it'll sell. Toyota knows it won't beat out the Camry, LOL!

Of course, I'd prefer the steering wheel to be on the right side! :D

C

HL2k

10-08-2006, 02:18 AM

hehehe steering... right side.... rawk :D

its either this or continue shooting themselves in the foot

especially in Canada, where they say there is no market for a sports car from Toyota/TRD, like come on.. we don't even have the option to import a tC, so my only hope is Toyota gets their act together and pulls out a winner.

Right now they are in fierce competition with the 'big 3' which are more like the big 1 and 3 and 4 now from what I've read recently.. if they want to be the king of the hill, or even the lil king, they have to outperform in all markets, not just 4dr compacts/midsize/sedans and not just in fuel economy.

I'm not saying don't base your model on fuel economy at all, do not get me wrong, its a major selling point. I'm just saying that if you stick to your gun the entire time, you may not gain the market share you wish to have because you are not supporting the different niches.

SILVERadoTACOMA

10-08-2006, 10:31 AM

Of course, I'd prefer the steering wheel to be on the right side! :D

It IS on the "right" side :lol:

*couldn't resist :D

Hemi3TC

10-08-2006, 11:34 AM

Lets just say it all start in 1979 with the Toyota Celica Supra MK I . :thumbup:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Supra

The Toyota Celica Supra is a sports car/grand tourer produced by Toyota Motor Company starting in 1979. The styling of the Toyota Celica Supra was derived from the Toyota Celica. Starting in mid-1986, the Supra (in its third generation, MKIII) became its own model and was no longer based on the Celica. In turn, Toyota also stopped using the prefix Celica and began just calling the car Supra.[1] Due to the similarity and past of the Toyota Celica's name, it is frequently mistaken for the Toyota Supra, and vice versa.

h3tc

Thundercat

10-08-2006, 11:53 AM

My Point is that The Road & Track article was prolly written just to get some interest or what not...these days car magazines want to write whatever to get more interest. The fact still is the Toyota has not made an official annoucement and it doesnt look that they would go in the direction of offering a super hi-performer within the Toyota nameplate..
Lexus might, but Toyota would most likely get something of a Sports Tourer Coupe or some form of that, with the 2GR...I cant see them doing more than that right now...
Of course it would be great to get a new form of the 2JZ in a sports car similar to what the Supra was, but I really doubt that would happen.
I think the most feasible thing for a Toyota sports car would be either a Sports Coupe with a TurboCharged 4cyl. (new tC or similar) or offering a better coupe (Sportier) than the Solara with the 2GR-FSE...but thats about it.

repinS

10-08-2006, 11:54 AM

^^^ Definate big respect to the MKI... but the MKII was such a quantum leap over it. :p:

Looks to me that if this is the concept, they've already planned a retract-hardtop...note the thin seam at the top of the windshield & over the B-pillar. (I didn't notice those last time I saw the pic.)

Might just be a targa top, like Supras previous.

Tideland Prius

10-08-2006, 01:48 PM

Uh so, the new Supra will have a tuned 2GR-FSE putting out over 300hp, and the IS500 will have the 2UR-FSE putting down about 450hp. Is that not different enough for you? Seems like they'd both fit in their own niche.
The IS-F will output 415hp from a 5.0 litre V8. Got the info from Club Lexus.

TRD-MX83

10-08-2006, 04:55 PM

Yota4Ever

10-08-2006, 06:55 PM

SolaraTRD

10-08-2006, 07:59 PM

Honestly, I don't plan on modding engines hardcore. (messing with internals and what not, but maybe an I/E/one day turbo/sc?) I'm not aiming to be the fastest supra (or any other car model) out there.

If the next Supra (if there will officially be one) has a V6, obviously not the 2jz, but some other number and letter combinations, produce 350hp and weighs in at 3,200lbs, I'd be sold.

The tuner scene is pretty big, but not as big as a regular Joe consumer buying a sporty car cause he wants one... If it looks good, sounds good, and in his price range, he might buy it. I don't think even half the supra buyers out there are looking into cam shaft types, lobe clearance, etc. (but thats only my assumption)

Corona67

10-09-2006, 12:29 AM

It IS on the "right" side :lol:

*couldn't resist :D

Heh, heh. Smart-ass! :D :D :D

C

Corona67

10-09-2006, 12:32 AM

Might just be a targa top, like Supras previous.

Really? I don't know much about Supra history...did they have targa options? I know they had T-tops for a while + moonroof of course.

C

xpeed

10-09-2006, 01:08 AM

Basically, a Japanese Car Magazine, which is Road and Tracks direct informant in Japanese car market, says that Toyota will be planning to release a convertible version as well.....that is if Toyota does come up with it.

repinS

10-09-2006, 01:45 AM

Really? I don't know much about Supra history...did they have targa options? I know they had T-tops for a while + moonroof of course.

C

huzzah!

http://www.uwm.edu/~jjcorbat/supra/mkiii.jpg
Optional for MKIII. Unfortunately this turned the chassis pretty soupy - the hardtop version is the one to go after if you want maximum rigidity/handling.

The MKIV was targa as well. Not sure if standard equipment.

Tideland Prius

10-09-2006, 02:07 AM

Iluvlexus

10-09-2006, 02:18 AM

That would be bitching, and it would seriously make me reconsider getting a lexus! In fact, I'd dump the idea of getting an IS!

You guys can forget about Turbos, they cust too much in insurance, and people tend to not take proper care of them.

I'd definitly get a hard top, t-top or targa, but not a convertible.

shoes1382006

10-09-2006, 02:44 AM

does those new lexus motors have VVT-I? i honestly dont think that they would bring back the supra cuz you should see toyotas slogan it says "Moving Foward" so wit that it seems like they would move bak to bring bak the supra! dont get me wrong i want them to bring bak the supra, but it only seems like the domestic cars are the only ones bringin old cars bak! if they did bring bak the supra, i wish they would bring back the old toyota pickup the year 89 threw 94 with like a UR engine! but i highly doubt it thou!!!

trxr

10-09-2006, 05:59 AM

I thought you guys already seen it. It's the most recent red concept shown months ago, but if not, here it is again.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y78/xpeed/Supra.jpg
That looks like a Mercedes SLR chop
Look at the rooflines, and the back ends.
Not to mention they did a bad job painting the skirts uniformly.

http://www.autopress.be/Temporaires/SALON/Mercedes%20SLR.jpg

jhbhatia

10-09-2006, 12:23 PM

Too little too late for me!

kdhspyder

10-09-2006, 03:02 PM

One of the key features of the Volta when it was intro'd was the additon of the electric motors. It was thought at that time to be the 'new Supra' . What if.... the electric motors are added to a boosted 3.5L V6?

Toysrme

10-09-2006, 03:19 PM

Then it would be mating a 396lb v6 (Which is a lightweight. Featherweight compaired to a 2jz-ge, and 2/3 the weight of a 2jz-gte) with another 400lbs worth of batteries, motors & electronics. Works out on an LS, or GS, but forget doing that & calling it a sparts car.

RichieRichJP

10-09-2006, 07:02 PM

Yeah but you know there's going to be a huge aftermarket support for this car just because of its name

Kr0n1k

10-09-2006, 07:42 PM

The new Supra sounds great if they decide to put it into production. If the new motor makes as much power as a 2JZGTE, what's so bad about that? Hardcore Supra guys, and some that aren't even that hardcore, add VERY expensive single turbo kits to their cars to get the big numbers, so if you're starting off with about the same power on an NA motor, I don't see what the big deal is. It'll be torquey, and would leave the option open to go turbo or SC, just like the Z. With that much power, alot of people might be satisfied with just I/H/E and cams. I see alot of potential in this car, but maybe its just me.

92_Gen3_5SFE_LE

10-09-2006, 08:26 PM

I know this is what eveyone who is complaining wants to see.
http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/28120253898.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3634666)

nick09

10-09-2006, 10:36 PM

ECHOKnight2000

10-09-2006, 11:20 PM

just a thought to all those that say they wont bring back the supra, yea your right they probably wont, ive never seen toyota bring back a vechicle they stoped making, correct me if im wrong though, so they would probably create it under a different name. personally id sell it as a supra, but you never know. but the way toyota is leading in cars sales, i would think they would want to produce a car that competes with the people that like the fast high end sports carrs such as the 350z and others like that, thats the only reason that article compaired the new "supra" to the 350z is because that would be what it would compete against from a sales standpoint, not a performance standpoint.

They did bring back the MR2...granted it was the MR2 Spyder but essecially the same name:D Of course now its gone again (so sad).
Also the FJ Crusier, well almost the same. But I agree with what you said, like the article mentioned, Nissan is selling the 350Z with SOLID numbers, why can't Toyota do the same? I don't get all the doubters, I thought most would be excited to see a Toyota "sports" car come back (especially on a Toyota Board!) Supra or whatever, but enough to compete. Although the article did mention Toyota's car will be on par if not better with performance with the Z but I guess we'll see, obviously we haven't heard anything official from Toyota yet...but I can't contain myself!

fj40supraman

10-09-2006, 11:22 PM

Okay if the Supra comes back... then they "must" bring back my 4 dr supra.. :D

Basically I like the idea of them bringing it back... V6 or I6, it's okay.. as long as the power is there.

0-60 in mid 4's and about $30k... I don't see why people are complaining...
To me the spy pic drawing looks good... with 0-60 in mid 4's and about $30k.. I'm sold. (Now I just need the 4 door version.. hehe.. so they can bring back another name-plate CRESSIDA!)

0-60 in mid 4's for $30K, and a Toyota:lol: :lol: :lol:
You've got to be kidding me.
I know they're will be a lot of New Vettes on the Used Car lots
Why would they sell it so cheap.
I expect $50K+ and 400 hp or they're not improving on the old car
It would make sense to make this model awd as a option.

I think the styling is a little too conservative also, I'd like to see some sculpted air intakes and not hard lines. Just my .02

xpeed

10-10-2006, 03:51 AM

^ Toyota is planning to lead in mid-sport cars range, (350z, G35, BMW 335i coupe....) So they will need to sell it around $30,000 to compete against their #1 rival, Nissan 350z, in which will come out with a new generation in the same year when the Supra will be released, that is if Toyota does do it.

91MR2quickNA

10-11-2006, 07:02 AM

EchoHoLiK

10-11-2006, 07:26 AM

Sounds to me like people DON'T WANT the return of a Supra, yet continually bitching at Toyota not having a sports car.

Wow, people just love contradicting themselves nowadays :rolleyes:

SILVERadoTACOMA

10-11-2006, 08:25 AM

Sounds to me like people DON'T WANT the return of a Supra, yet continually bitching at Toyota not having a sports car.

Wow, people just love contradicting themselves nowadays :rolleyes:

It's not just limited to Toyota. GM got the same flack for nixing the camaro (still had the 'vette, but who can afford one of those?) So what do they do? The release a pretty sweet ass looking car rumored to have a "base model" V-8 with 400 HP. What do the "GM fans" say? It's not retro enough, it's too retro, I don't like the grill, I don't like the taillights... blah blah blah. Then people start saying, hey you know what, that's a pretty damn good lookin car... THEN sketches of a "retro firebird" based on the Camaro body are release (with NO intention of building the car) and people are like, "WTF why can't they build the firebird too?" "The firebird looks better than the camaro." SHEESH! You can't please everybody! I'd like to see a reasonably priced Toyota sports car. Sports cars are way more fun than camrys and corollas :D

pjsammy

10-11-2006, 09:06 AM

if they stick to their word and it comes in just under 30K, I'll be on that like white on rice (in the 2nd or 3rd model year, but on it nonetheless)

CheeseHead91182

10-11-2006, 10:41 AM

I hate to be a downer but I really don't think they are brining back the Supra. For one I read an article in my local paper about a month ago on what toyota has planned for the next few years and they said the Supra is nothing but a rumor. They said a new Corolla, Tundra and Highlander were coming in the next few years and that they are making that FX-TS or whatever it was crossover. Also the design of the supposed new supra to me doesn't fit the design direction toyota is going in right now, the head lights especially remind me more of the gen 5 camry, where as if you look at the yaris, and supposed pics of the new corolla they all take design cues from the 07 cam, even the concept FX-TS and Freedom Van (or whatever it was called) had likings to the new cam, so wouldn't the supra have a design more in line with the rest of the cars? Also there have been other magazines that had pics of a supposed Supra, here is a link to one from a few years ago and says that a new supra is comming in 05 http://www.toyotacelicaonline.com/rumors.htm. Finally, toyota for the most part seems to be steering away from sport cars and coupes, they got rid of the MR2 Spyder, Celica and the Solara is on its way out too. Honestly I don't think sports cars are a money maker for Toyota and that is why they have discontinued most of them. I know they are making a corolla coupe , whcih they are probably doing because Honda has had success with the civic coupe, but if people don't take to the Corolla coupe it will be on its way out like the rest of the coupes/sport cars.

EchoHoLiK

10-11-2006, 10:43 AM

SHEESH! You can't please everybody!
Tell me about it.

I'd like to see a reasonably priced Toyota sports car. Sports cars are way more fun than camrys and corollas :D
Well duh :cool:

Talking about this subject is fine, personally though I'm just sick of hearing people bitch about this and that, even when there's no official words from Toyota about this. Like, who cares if it's not 2JZ or inline-6? Fuck's sakes, Toyota is MOVING FORWARD, not going backward and use our ancient engine blocks. Sorry guys, the 2JZ is OBSOLETE!! Get over it!! There're now BETTER ENGINES than the 2JZ and the 3S and 4AG and all those oldies. MOVE ON PEOPLE!!

EchoHoLiK

10-11-2006, 10:47 AM

SILVERadoTACOMA

10-11-2006, 11:06 AM

Well duh :cool:

:lol: :D

repinS

10-11-2006, 11:33 AM

And your closing statement is what I've said long time ago. If Toyota does come out with a new affordable sports car but sales sucks, then when it gets killed off production, the only ones to blame are the "fans" that bitched about Toyota not having sports car but when Toyota builds one they don't buy one. We shall see if history repeats itself :cool:
The MKIV Supra was not "affordable" at all, dude ;)

50k+ was steeeeeeeeeep.

EchoHoLiK

10-11-2006, 11:40 AM

The MKIV Supra was not "affordable" at all, dude ;)

50k+ was steeeeeeeeeep.
Of course, but same goes for the contemporary 300ZX, NSX, and RX-7. So it's relative to that era, plus they're all trying to be supercars, but only ending up being "super" cars.

We shall move on from comparing the past, because time has changed.

Ne0z31

10-12-2006, 03:19 AM

ummm... a few things id like to mention...

i dont see how any current say supra enthusiast can be happy about this car... it completely kills the supras herritage of the inline 6...

also, that photo is a chop... its a new eclipse with a longer front end... that is all... compare body lines, they are almost identicle...

also... Toyota has stated that they do NOT have plans to resurect the supra...

hence this image taken directly off Toyota.com (under planet kaizen)
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/Ne0z31/nosupra.jpg

Ne0z31

10-12-2006, 03:21 AM

id also like to mention that road and track has written BS rumors about cars that are supposedly coming out for years, especially the supra and it has never proven true

91MR2quickNA

10-12-2006, 04:34 AM

They'd have to build it domestically to keep the price down. A hard thing to do since no IS/GS platforms are built in the U.S. They'd have to adapt a current factory to produce a limited production car, which isn't cost effective either.

EchoHoLiK

10-12-2006, 07:25 AM

i dont see how any current say supra enthusiast can be happy about this car... it completely kills the supras herritage of the inline 6... Can someone explain to me the irrational fascination with the idea of keeping the inline-6 engine configuration please? So if the next Supra isn't inline-6 (which it WON'T if Toyota does produce it), does it not make it a Supra or Supra-successor?

Don't get me wrong, I love the inline-6 engine as much as anyone on this planet we called Earth, but the V6 configuration is proven to be smaller and lighter in size and weight, and have so much more potential than the inline configuration when it calls for more than 5 cylinders. You can no longer do a longitudunal inline-6 front engine rear drive layout when you want the mid-front weight distribution, which handling is even more of an objective than all out power. Drag-racers can and still use the inline-6 because yes it's a proven engine, but also the fact that they have so much more room and wheelbase to play with. On a road car, the sheer dimensions of the inline-6 will become a compromise in the 21st Century.

Is it a Toyota thing? I mean, the next Nissan Skyline GT-R has already moved on towards V6 engine configuration, and I don't think anyone has complained or considered that "because it's not inline-6 anymore so it's NOT a Skyline GT-R!!"

Go ahead, disprove my rationality :confused:

MrJones

10-12-2006, 09:25 AM

can they bring the chaser here? ... itd be nice to have a 2jz with rwd .. under a toyota name .. without swapping an engine in like some have done with the gs ... i wouldnt mind that. the supra is a legend and they should keep it that way imo. unless they plan to top the last generation, i dont think they should develop something to just be sold in the sports car segment. toyota needs a real performer that can surpass our expectations. bring a new supra that everyone will gasp in awe

repinS

10-12-2006, 10:56 AM

I've said this before here and will say it again: The Toyota Chaser has been discontinued since after 2000, with no plans to bring it back. It won't be coming back to the Japanese anytime soon, let alone North Americans. Toyota already tried a Chaser here, only to drop it with the onset of

I won't really agree with the bitching about the inline-six heritage - heck as long as the thing makes good power I'll love it still. A lot of you fail to remember that there were four generations of Supra. The first two were never offered with a turbo. As I've said earlier in this thread, the MKII, I think, would be a super awesome throwback if a new Supra were to be introduced. The MKIII and MKIV were overweight (but still quick) beasts, which hampered handling to a degree.

Maybe I'm just a MKII fanboy :o:

SolaraTRD

10-12-2006, 11:29 AM

I'm an MK fan.

I've been playing Mortal kombat every since MK one. :lol: ;I

And isn't new engines introduced because "they're just overall better?" in certain areas?
The inline-6 is leaving for a reason. They sure don't use it in their IS's anymore.

Ne0z31

10-12-2006, 03:12 PM

my whole point though with that is give it a new name... it shouldnt be called a supra just like the new skyline thats coming to america is just going to be called a 'GTR'...

also, i do recall bitching about the new skyline because previous versions of it where faster and handled better, the new skyline (aka G35) is as fast as the 300ZX (actually on top gear they raced the 300ZX vs the 350Z and the 300zx desimated it)...

RAV4EVR

10-12-2006, 04:13 PM

joemaniaci

10-12-2006, 07:01 PM

The one thing I dont get is why they just dont reuse the 2jzz-gte engine when there was no problem with it and it could easily run 600 hp with stock internals.

2k4CamThrilla

10-12-2006, 07:05 PM

I'm saving now for one!

EchoHoLiK

10-12-2006, 07:42 PM

The one thing I dont get is why they just dont reuse the 2jzz-gte engine when there was no problem with it and it could easily run 600 hp with stock internals.
:disappoin:disappoin:disappoin:disappoin:disappoin :disappoin

^^^ There, inline-6 disappointment

I shall shout out loud: 2ZZ-G ENGINE TYPE IS OBSO-FUCKING-LETE!!!!!!!!

Is it just blind-fascination or ignorance? I can never tell.

EchoHoLiK

10-12-2006, 07:52 PM

my whole point though with that is give it a new name... it shouldnt be called a supra just like the new skyline thats coming to america is just going to be called a 'GTR'... Well you could've just said that, but that doesn't mean Toyota won't call the new one a Supra. It's a guessing game for us. But for now, for this discussion, and for the sake of simplicity, it's easier to call this new one the "new Supra" if it gets produced.

also, i do recall bitching about the new skyline because previous versions of it where faster and handled better, the new skyline (aka G35) is as fast as the 300ZX (actually on top gear they raced the 300ZX vs the 350Z and the 300zx desimated it)... Ummm.......if you haven't notice, the 300ZX is TURBOED which has more torque (important for 1/5 mile drag race in that episode of Top Gear). The 350Z which is NA don't stand a chance, and I think the new Z is slightly heavier too. Put some FI in the 350Z and that drag race would be a different story.

As for the older Skylines performing better than the new Skyline: Faster? Maybe. But handles better? Doubt it. Just so we're clear, we're not talking about the R34 GTR being faster than the G35 "regular" Skyline. We're talking about just NA against NA, both stock. One thing's for sure, the new GTR that's coming next year WILL WHUP the R34 GTR's ass in every single way.

vasia

10-12-2006, 09:14 PM

It almost seems as if Toyota's participation in Formula 1 is going to waste. Sure there's the Lexus GT, but where's the affordable sports car with some derivative of F1 technologies?

I'm sticking with my MR2. It still attracts attention, looks good, and handles like a beast. I won't hold my breath for a new Toyota sports car.

You need to think out of the box ;)

Actually, things learned from the F1 program, indirectly, are being put to use in most of Toyota's mainstream cars. The new *R series Toyota engines ... some of what Toyota has learned in F1 has been put to use in these engines, especially the UR V8 series. Toyota's new platforms and chassis development are all enhanced thanks to Toyota's ever-increasing knowledge and experience in F1.

A little bird told me the wonderful suspension system on the new Lexus LS was helped by F1 knowledge :P.

The Lexus GT will be the ultimate statement from Toyota, and will put all of it's cumulative knowledge and experience of F1 together.

And an affordable sports car from Toyota is coming ... it simply seems they are taking a long time in honing/tuning it. Over the past few years, we've seen various peculiar camo'ed Toyotas running around tracks.

Ne0z31

10-13-2006, 12:37 AM

Well you could've just said that, but that doesn't mean Toyota won't call the new one a Supra. It's a guessing game for us. But for now, for this discussion, and for the sake of simplicity, it's easier to call this new one the "new Supra" if it gets produced.

im still going to doubt that it will be called the supra till toyota says so since they allready said they werent going to be bringing it back

Ummm.......if you haven't notice, the 300ZX is TURBOED which has more torque (important for 1/5 mile drag race in that episode of Top Gear). The 350Z which is NA don't stand a chance, and I think the new Z is slightly heavier too. Put some FI in the 350Z and that drag race would be a different story.
yeah, cuz thats cool to have to spend 8k minimum to get 400-450whp on ur car... where the old 300zx would only cost in the 4-5k range to get those numbers and higher... my buddy has the greddy TT kid on his Z and gets walked on all day long by my friends 300zx that he only put 4000 into...

As for the older Skylines performing better than the new Skyline: Faster? Maybe. But handles better? Doubt it. Just so we're clear, we're not talking about the R34 GTR being faster than the G35 "regular" Skyline. We're talking about just NA against NA, both stock. One thing's for sure, the new GTR that's coming next year WILL WHUP the R34 GTR's ass in every single way.

none-the-less the G35 body style is a skyline... and the R34 outhandles it.... technically the new GTR would be an R36 in the skyline lifeline if it where to keep the skyline name

EchoHoLiK

10-13-2006, 04:51 AM

im still going to doubt that it will be called the supra till toyota says so since they allready said they werent going to be bringing it back
Okay, you misunderstood my point. Look, personally I could really care less about snotty things such as what Toyota will be naming this "thing," I'll let you or the like-minded to worry about that silly stuff. What I meant was that for the sake of this thread, let's just call it "new Supra" so we all know what we're talking about. Otherwise I could be talking about the "new Celica" and you'd know I'm not talking about the "upcoming Supra," if you catch my drift. But then again I'm sure you'll say "Toyota won't call the new one a Celica." :lol:

yeah, cuz thats cool to have to spend 8k minimum to get 400-450whp on ur car... where the old 300zx would only cost in the 4-5k range to get those numbers and higher... my buddy has the greddy TT kid on his Z and gets walked on all day long by my friends 300zx that he only put 4000 into...
Yeah, like, can your perspective be a little more relative, rather than absolute? What I mean by that is, doing mods on newer cars typically cost more because the cars are so new, requiring new R&D and investment based on modern currency to make performance parts for them. The older generations of cars can be modded at much cheaper prices, due to extensive development time and maturity as opposed to newer cars. Yes it's cheaper to mod older cars that can out-perform newer cars that are modded, that's an obvious given. Besides, we were supposedly comparing stock vs. stock, apples to apples, meaning NA vs NA, not Turbo vs NA, unless the 350Z sports a 4 or 5L engine, which should be a fairer comparison if you wanna compare Turbo vs NA. I basically said the "what if 350Z is turboed" to make a general point, because a NA engine with just an extra 0.5L capacity (on stock reliable tuning as opposed to race tuned) will not suffice to go against a 3L turbo. It quickly becomes ridiculous and off-topic if we're talking about modified cars, so let's just stay out of that.

none-the-less the G35 body style is a skyline... and the R34 outhandles it.... technically the new GTR would be an R36 in the skyline lifeline if it where to keep the skyline name
Sure, whatever petty naming convention you think is right for whatever car :rolleyes: I think you'll be perfect working in the marketing department, being anal about the do's and don'ts of naming automobiles :lol:

Ne0z31

10-13-2006, 05:43 AM

all im saying is from a tuning aspect which almost every company now adays considers when they built a new car, hence nismo, trd, mopar, ect... that the 350z was built weak in comparison to its previous model line, as where cars such as the mr2, celica, rx8 (although driving one is lots of fun in turns), eclipse, and probably going to be the case with toyotas new sports car... they just arent measuring up to what the vehicles of yesterday where and its honestly really really sad to see such awsome cars go downhill like this... im not saying i wouldnt own any of these cars, they are great vehicles in thier respects, i just feel like japanese companys are working in reverse

EchoHoLiK

10-13-2006, 06:00 AM

^^^ I see what you're saying. The problem with newer sports cars is the fact that they're getting more powerful yet they're getting heavier too, since having more weight is worse than having less weight and less power. I guess that safety/environmental legislations and general consumer trends are the ones to blame for this, because chassis nowadays has to have thicker gauges of metal for added stiffness and safety, unless you go aluminum which costs more; consumers also like to have any conceivable options one can afford, so all the power-this-and-that and sat-nav and whatever add lots of weight. I mean, you can hardly get a car without power windows nowadays. Personally I dislike power windows and locks, but they'd only be practical as a must-have if it's a 4-door sedan or so.

I'd rather the car manufacturers concentrate on building lighter cars that handle well, as opposed to making them more powerful but not minding the weight, which will affect the handling performance. I really don't mind if the cars are relatively underpowered compared to cars of yesteryears, since in these days one could hardly have the (safe) opportunity to use all that power on the public roads, plus the rising gas prices don't help justify the mindless wasting of petrol. Bottomline, if Toyota does making a new "something," then I just hope it's done properly, where there's a balance in every aspect.

Driver

10-13-2006, 06:12 AM

The Standard of living is higher in this world as a whole as compared to decades ago. The United States is doing even better. I don't understand how sports cars were ok 20-30 years ago and now people can't afford them anymore.

Isn't it more about spending on necessaties (minivans) rather than luxuries (sports cars)?

Yet the sports cars are disappearing and the "pratical" cars are popular..

Is it frustration with life?
Busy life?
Obsession with money?

May be sports cars were cheap 30 years ago and went up exponentially as compared to the "normal" cars.

May be it was just a sports cars flick that lasted two/three decades 1960s-70s-80s and then it died.

Personally, I would buy a Supra to put it in the showcase or occassionally drive it.. 30,000 plus is too much to spend on something that is only for me look at everyday, unless ofcourse I have the spare change but then again,,... people have more money today then they did 30 years ago............... :confused:

The way i see it, Insurance wasn't burning a hole in people's pocket in that time either. And a speed limit was a novel idea. According to my dad, people would drive down to block to get milk at highways speeds. Not only that, but now a days every member of the family has a car as well. For example, we have six cars for our household at this moment. We didn't buy six cars because we wanted to say hey look we have six cars, but because we need them.

TbombsGen3

10-13-2006, 11:42 AM

I am glad to see a magazine saying what I have been for so long. It makes the most sense(from every angle) to take the IS and make the Supra. And for everyone fussing about the I6 being gone, we have to face the reality of the times. I love I6 engines, but even BMW is looking to move away from them. The 3.5L is an unbelievable engine. And, yes, gas mileage does have a say in this. Toyota has to protect its "green" image, so would it make any sense to come out with a turbo I6 getting the 20mpg (highway) that the JZ gets (along with all the issues that come along with FI). Instead, lets get huge power levels out of an NA motor and get high 20's in the mileage dept.

I also dont understand the people saying to not bring it back if it doesnt outdo blah blah.... It will have more power, be lighter, and cost a great deal less (due to using the IS platform) than the MKIV. How is that NOT outdoing?! The 350Z and the RX8 dont exactly outdo their predecessors(I know the rx8 isnt a great comparison)

Also, people say that Toyota denies it coming back. They also deny any excistence of the LF-A even though there are photos of the prototype being tested all over the place.

Blacksupra93

10-13-2006, 06:11 PM

Also, people say that Toyota denies it coming back. They also deny any excistence of the LF-A even though there are photos of the prototype being tested all over the place.

the last report out on the LF-A is that it was given the greenlight for production

xpeed

10-13-2006, 08:35 PM

And isn't new engines introduced because "they're just overall better?" in certain areas?
The inline-6 is leaving for a reason. They sure don't use it in their IS's anymore.

The Inline-6 are no more in Japan. Most of the Japanese car companys decided to lose the I-6s and go with the Vs, cause it's more fuel efficient (Don't ask why), and more power to work with. The last cars from Japan with I-6s were the RB26DETT in the Skyline GT-R R34,( BNR34), and the 2003 Supra RZ.

I believe Option Video did a document on this and they are disappointed in saying good-bye to the Inline-6 cars.

Ne0z31

10-14-2006, 05:41 AM

repinS

10-14-2006, 11:04 AM

SolaraTRD

10-14-2006, 05:13 PM

the one car that was made right for the longest time i believe is the mazda miata though, mazda has the idea down and has had it down for years... lightweight cars that handle insanely well with good weight ratios...

the only current toyota however following that... isnt even a toyota at all... the Lotus Elise using the Toyota Engine was a car that was made PERFECT

I 100% agree with that. That Mazda does have a good formula. Pure fun car to drive. PERIOD> nothing fancy, nothing over done, decent price.

But you gotta admit, its a bit too small (just in looks, not leg room, exclude that, but just in general looks)

I plan on purchasing a new G35 when the new models come, and they are not faster than any other performance car in its class... But its even to a S2000 head-to-head stock and looks good.

IF the Supra were to be super light weigh but that small, I'm sorry, I'm not into it. Just my two cents.
--------------------------
and for the other comment, of how manufacturers DO think about the aftermarket business. I think is cross-brand selling, rather than thinking TRUELY of the aftermarket where we mix and match parts. Example: buy nissan, buy NISMO. Buy Toyota = Buy TRD If they were truely thinking of the aftermarket people, they WOULD claim = Our engines are so great, it can handle other aftermarket parts besides (insert own performance division here) and won't void warranty when slapping on Greddy,Eibachs,etc etc and other performance stuff.

ECHOKnight2000

10-14-2006, 08:00 PM

Tideland Prius

10-14-2006, 08:58 PM

<sigh> The MR2 was a good car. Just like the Miata was an affordable, fun-to-drive rwd roadster, the MR2 covered the MR layout. They didn't even bother selling the 3rd gen in Canada.

Edit: And also, Toyota sorta shot themselves in the foot (whether it's intentional or not) cause they raised the price of the Celica even though the RSX udnercut it in price and well, naturally it would fail cause the RSX was a pretty good contender. The thing was, was it intentional so that Toyota can have a reason to kill it off?

Christian87N

10-15-2006, 03:56 AM

To correct someone's earlier post, the MR never died off. It was discontinued in the US but not in japan. It came back to the US as the new gen, along with the new gen celica and echo. I'm not sure if they are still made in japan, but if they are and arent killed off, then they might come back. As for the supra, the supra should remain inline 6 for a lot of reasons, main reason being heritage. Giving a supra a v-configuration would be like calling a car with pistons an rx7 or rx8. Its not the same. Also, to anyone who knows their Lexus history, the supra should NOT be a toyota. It should be a lexus. Lexus was officially a company around 1989. Toyota saw great success in the luxury dept. because of 2 cars, the legendary Cressida and the Supra. It wasn't the only reason, but it was a BIG reason. If the supra is going to be based off any car, it should be the SC series, since the older SC shared the most components with the supra. My opinion is that if Toyota should make any sports car, then it should be based off the Corolla. My reason is because now that Toyota and Subaru are working together, they should make a car based on some sort of hybrid between Corolla and Impreza. Corolla is in the same class as the Lancer and regular impreza. Corolla has major history in rally as well. A "trd" corolla would compete directly with Evo's, STi's and even 350z's. Just my .02.

xpeed

10-15-2006, 04:07 AM

^ Your point is sensible in a way, but to let you know, the SC wasn't built from scratch. It was actually based off the Supra. Even though it was a heavier and a longer dimension car, it shared similar components with the Supra, so the SC was based off the Supra for Lexus in the beginning. The third gen SCs are now a whole new platform solely for Lexus. Plus, Supras were around WAY before Lexus was even planned. Back then, it was the Celica Supra. But it broke away from that and became its own model. Last time I checked, the Cressida was a Toyota planned car. And yes, I do know my Lexus History, I have a book about it. Lexus started with the LS400 and the ES250 as their first two model debut in the US.

As for the Corolla, the ones we have here are US based designs. The one in Japan are different as well from the WRC component. The WRC model Corolla is a hatch that was sold as a European-Australian model. The ones we have here are totally different, even though the chassis may be similar. But I do agree with you, if Toyota started selling those hot hatches with AWD in the future, they will get more young-gens to buy Toyotas instead of WRX and Evolutions. 350z? Don't even add that car in that list, the 350z belongs in a different segment of cars. The next Supra is Toyota's answer to compete against the 350z....if it is true.

91MR2quickNA

10-15-2006, 04:30 AM

You need to think out of the box ;)

Actually, things learned from the F1 program, indirectly, are being put to use in most of Toyota's mainstream cars. The new *R series Toyota engines ... some of what Toyota has learned in F1 has been put to use in these engines, especially the UR V8 series. Toyota's new platforms and chassis development are all enhanced thanks to Toyota's ever-increasing knowledge and experience in F1.

A little bird told me the wonderful suspension system on the new Lexus LS was helped by F1 knowledge :P.

The Lexus GT will be the ultimate statement from Toyota, and will put all of it's cumulative knowledge and experience of F1 together.

And an affordable sports car from Toyota is coming ... it simply seems they are taking a long time in honing/tuning it. Over the past few years, we've seen various peculiar camo'ed Toyotas running around tracks.

Well there's also the underbody fins on the Camry SE, which was derived from F1 as well, but still there's nothing for enthusiasts at Toyota right now. The xR engines might have been influenced by F1, but I feel they're just the typical engineering improvements you see in an auto manufacturer with the exception of the intake VVT-iE as seen on the UR engines. The 12,000RPM GT V10 will be something though.

The chassis development and suspension definitely has improved through F1 participation, I do agree with that. There's still a lot of work to be done at Toyota, however. And perhaps Toyota doesn't feel confident they can make a sports car well enough. The future of Toyota sports cars rides on the success of the GT, IMO. The Supra should be a kids car compared to the GT, and I believe Toyota wants to dethrone its own legendary sports car with something more exotic.

Ne0z31

10-15-2006, 06:04 AM

^^^Toyota did make an atempt to go head to head with the Miata with the MR2 Spyder, but couldn't knock down the king of the small affordable roasters down. Granted the Spyder didn't have 300 plus horsepower that the supposid Supra will have but that's not the point in this case. It was a small light weight roaster that had good get up and go and decent mileage. :thumbup:

sorry to go off-topic here but the miata will very possibly be dethroned soon thanks to GM and thier Solstice/Sky GXP/Redline... ive driven the normal solstice and its a very fun car to drive but I still enjoyed the MazdaSpeed Miata much more... will be interesting to see what the Redline/GXP can do... id honestly love to see a small roadster of some sort from toyota, cause i know they can get the handling and technology down..

SolaraTRD

10-15-2006, 11:06 AM

If the supra is going to be based off any car, it should be the SC series, since the older SC shared the most components with the supra. My opinion is that if Toyota should make any sports car, then it should be based off the Corolla. My reason is because now that Toyota and Subaru are working together, they should make a car based on some sort of hybrid between Corolla and Impreza. Corolla is in the same class as the Lancer and regular impreza. Corolla has major history in rally as well. A "trd" corolla would compete directly with Evo's, STi's and even 350z's. Just my .02.

I rather have a Supra "semi-racing" built chassis/frame than be based off a "Low-Teens" priced frame of a corola. Like you said, base it off the SC, it'll be much better. (why? I have no clue, just sounds better :D ) Or even the IS.

The Lancer (like $14k base) economy car into an EVO. Great car/performance, but I dunno, just doesn't seem to float my boat too much.

Just my 2 cents. enlighten me :thumbup:

DougDangger

10-15-2006, 03:11 PM

Someone already said it:

Those who complain are usually those who can't even afford it.

The MKIV was +$50,000 when it died close to 10 years ago. To produce a Supra that is far better than the IV... you'd be looking at probably $70 - $90,000 range. No one will buy a Toyota for that much money, just like nobody bought the $94,000 honda nsx. Sheeze, if I have close to $100,000 to spend, I'd spend it on a Porsche.

But yeah, the Supra has always been an I-6 so this is going to be a shocking change. Perhaps they should call it something else.

The 5.7 V8 in the new Tundra would be bitchin on a 2dr coupe. Can we say Mustang killer? :cool:

SolaraTRD

10-15-2006, 05:24 PM

Someone already said it:

Those who complain are usually those who can't even afford it.

Theres so many of us on here that can afford a Camry, but we bash GM's equivalent like theres no tomorrow. :lol: (humor guys)

EchoHoLiK

10-16-2006, 06:52 AM

Theres so many of us on here that can afford a Camry, but we bash GM's equivalent like theres no tomorrow. :lol: (humor guys)
I'm more of an American Ford basher now :lol:

RAV4EVR

10-16-2006, 10:08 AM

This thread is going nowhere and so are the other sports cars threads on this forum... :disappoin

SolaraTRD

10-16-2006, 12:50 PM

This thread is going nowhere and so are the other sports cars threads on this forum... :disappoin

I think to sum it up, this thread has been about:

Some are bit upset Inline-6's may be gone. (or is gone)
Supra should have this and that
Pricing
Whether it will come out or not and where Supra/Toyota stand on the answer to the 350z

It might feel like its not going anywhere because we still don't have any hardcore specs/stats on and if there will be a supra (or something similar) There's really not much to talk about than our own opinions and what we already know. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

milnersXcoupe

06-14-2007, 01:09 AM

The 2GR FsE weighs 384lbs. sporting an 83mm stroke -

"The engine produces 306 HP at 6400 RPM, and 277 lb-ft at 4800 RPM; a remarkable accomplishment for a luxury-car V6."

Eventually, slip a 1GR FE 4.0 shortblock under this for a stroke of 95MM and
toss a Turbo on top - should make 450HP easily.:thumbup:

toyotafanfan

06-14-2007, 01:13 AM

xpeed

06-14-2007, 01:13 AM

OH yes. Forgot to mention this.

Toyota is bringing the Supra back. It's in development at the moment. All the spy shots and CG images were few design ideas. There's no initial final prototype design at the moment. Toyota wants to compete against the new GT-Rs that Nissan is bringing to the states.

I know a person that works in the R&T/Development section of Toyota in Torrance HQ and says Toyota is indeed developing a new Supra. So look out for it in 2009.

Christian87N

06-14-2007, 01:28 AM

Dude I thought you had some real breaking news.

Reviving a thread 7 months old.

Don't get me excited like that again.

Fan

:lol:

OH yes. Forgot to mention this.

Toyota is bringing the Supra back. It's in development at the moment. All the spy shots and CG images were few design ideas. There's no initial final prototype design at the moment. Toyota wants to compete against the new GT-Rs that Nissan is bringing to the states.

I know a person that works in the R&T/Development section of Toyota in Torrance HQ and says Toyota is indeed developing a new Supra. So look out for it in 2009.

You're not being sarcastic are you? :/
any other details?

Tideland Prius

06-14-2007, 02:08 AM

Gekko

06-14-2007, 08:26 AM

I know a person that works in the R&T/Development section of Toyota in Torrance HQ and says Toyota is indeed developing a new Supra. So look out for it in 2009.

2009 sounds like a real enough figure. Just take the suspension and engine of the IF-S, replace the bodyshell with a 2 door coupe (they souldn't forget the aeroroof) and you got a 500hp RWD creature.

Still, to be true successor of the Supra they should strap on two turbo's.. ..giving it, lets take it low, 650hp? Should be enough to please people. But Toyota appearently lost interrest in turbo's if you look at the current engine range Toyota has on the shelf.

xpeed

06-14-2007, 12:26 PM

I'm not being sarcastic. It's true. Just a little leaked info I got from him.

aznstylez

06-14-2007, 07:33 PM

Supra is a well known name since the 70s that will sell. Lots of people can not afford to buy a Porche, BMW coupe or even a 350Z. But if the Supra comes in with a low enough price with decent performance then a lot of new buyers will show up. As with all manufacturers, a faster Supra with a more powerful engine will be made to compete at the top end.

But for now, a low priced Supra with decent performance is what alot of people want. The IS350 is a luxury car. The Supra hopefully will be about sport as in sports car without alot of dead weight. Since most
of the platform and parts are already from IS, the new Supra does not have to be sold at a high price to be profitable.

Hemi3tc

Some people don't buy sport cars due to just 2 seats. I'll only buy a sport car if it seats 5 so lets hope a Supra that seats 5 with T-tops comes out or else an IS350 would do.

EchoHoLiK

06-14-2007, 07:37 PM

Some people don't buy sport cars due to just 2 seats. I'll only buy a sport car if it seats 5 so lets hope a Supra that seats 5 with T-tops comes out or else an IS350 would do.
A sports car with more than 2 seats is NOT a sports car, it's more of a sports GT. You better go with the IS then because I guarantee you if you want to fit 2 adults in the back of a 2+2, you won't be able to. Regarding to seating FIVE people in a "sports car", don't even think about it.

ECHOKnight2000

06-14-2007, 09:48 PM

Still, to be true successor of the Supra they should strap on two turbo's.. ..giving it, lets take it low, 650hp? Should be enough to please people. But Toyota appearently lost interrest in turbo's if you look at the current engine range Toyota has on the shelf.

I think its because Toyota found out that turbos aren't effecient and not as reliable so they opted to ditch that as well as costly but I could be wrong, I just remember reading something like that.:thumbup: I think that's why Nissan didn't bring back a turbo Z car, just naturally aspirated engine, but a nice one for sure.:thumbup:

91MR2quickNA

06-14-2007, 09:57 PM

The 2GR can produce more than 306hp in NA form as is (i.e. the 3.5 litre DOHC dual VVT-i dual injection)

In racing form, the 2GR-FSE produces 450hp at 8000rpm and roughly 330lb-ft of torque, while still being NA. It has some VERY aggressive cams though. But, the 2GR flows the largest amount of intake air of any V6 engine on the market. At least according to Toyota.

CharmCityES

06-14-2007, 10:34 PM

inline six or not, im anxiously awating the ressurection of the supra, along with the rebirth of the japanese supercar wars! the glory days of the 90's where supras and TT 300zx's vied for the japanese power crown are upon us again!

Tideland Prius

06-15-2007, 12:05 AM

In racing form, the 2GR-FSE produces 450hp at 8000rpm and roughly 330lb-ft of torque, while still being NA. It has some VERY aggressive cams though. But, the 2GR flows the largest amount of intake air of any V6 engine on the market. At least according to Toyota.

Thanks for the info!

Tideland Prius

06-15-2007, 12:05 AM

A sports car with more than 2 seats is NOT a sports car, it's more of a sports GT. You better go with the IS then because I guarantee you if you want to fit 2 adults in the back of a 2+2, you won't be able to. Regarding to seating FIVE people in a "sports car", don't even think about it.

You want an M5 ;)

EchoHoLiK

06-15-2007, 01:37 AM

You want an M5 ;)
I know, that's the example I original wanted to use. But then again I'll refrain from advertising other vehicle brands if it's not necessary, unlike some questionable members here ;) :lol:

Wolfman

06-15-2007, 01:42 AM

I just had a man trade in his M5 for a tundra crewmax such a freakin sweet ride!

EchoHoLiK

06-15-2007, 01:49 AM

I just had a man trade in his M5 for a tundra crewmax such a freakin sweet ride!
haha they're both sweet rides, for totally different purposes though :)

Wolfman

06-15-2007, 10:02 AM

haha they're both sweet rides, for totally different purposes though :) yeah they are he just had four kids so the m5 wasn't gonna work anymore :eek:

trxr

06-15-2007, 10:51 AM

2k4CamThrilla

06-15-2007, 04:58 PM

I"m Gettin One!

Hemi3TC

06-17-2007, 11:57 AM

There is a long list of cars that the Supra will compete with, not just the Nissan GT-R.
There is Hondas new NSX, Corvette Z08/9/10, vipers, G37, Porsche Cayman, Ford SVT Mustangs, and probably the one that some may wish the Supra would be similiar to is the BMW M Coupe with an inline six. On the lower end could be competing with the Camaro, Charger, , Mustangs, 350Z. I would prefer something in the middle. If Toyota wants to be the Top Dog then they will end up with a car like the last overpriced overpowered Supra that never sold well.

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/coupes/0608_2007_bmw_z4_m_coupe/

Toyota is bringing the Supra back. It's in development at the moment. All the spy shots and CG images were few design ideas. There's no initial final prototype design at the moment. Toyota wants to compete against the new GT-Rs that Nissan is bringing to the states.

EchoHoLiK

06-17-2007, 05:16 PM

^^^ Well if this upcoming Toyota/Lexus sports car ends up not being your cup of tea, there're always those other choices that you can go with, right? ;)

vasia

06-18-2007, 03:06 AM

Even better than the VQ? The VQ can produce similar stats.

A 3.5L VQ can run at or above 450HP and 330 lb-ft while still being naturally aspirated? That's some news to me.

Oh and Snap, the race-spec 2GR-FSE produces a bit over 470HP at about 8000 RPM.

andy82481

06-19-2007, 12:02 PM

Toyota has been teasing us for last four years about the Supra. I will believe it when I see it. I know Lexus is getting the ultra expensive LF-S. I hope Toyota gets a detuned version of that car. My personal preferance would be a Supra with the upcoming 5.0L V8 engine from the IS-F.

xpeed

06-20-2007, 11:37 AM

A 3.5L VQ can run at or above 450HP and 330 lb-ft while still being naturally aspirated? That's some news to me.

Oh and Snap, the race-spec 2GR-FSE produces a bit over 470HP at about 8000 RPM.

What you're saying is true. It's very difficult to tune a VQ engine, more like the VQ35DE engine, to be tuned up to 450hp and still be a NA engine. The most any Japanese Tuner have done is 370hp by HKS I believe. Other tuners use turbos obviously like Power Enterprise which pumped up to 550hp. Phoenix Power is also one that turbos it.

91MR2quickNA

06-20-2007, 03:41 PM

Oh and Snap, the race-spec 2GR-FSE produces a bit over 470HP at about 8000 RPM.

Good to hear they're still finding more power in the engine. The racing spec IS needs to debut in ALMS already.

vasia

06-21-2007, 09:35 PM

What you're saying is true. It's very difficult to tune a VQ engine, more like the VQ35DE engine, to be tuned up to 450hp and still be a NA engine. The most any Japanese Tuner have done is 370hp by HKS I believe. Other tuners use turbos obviously like Power Enterprise which pumped up to 550hp. Phoenix Power is also one that turbos it.

Yup. I believe HKS has done the highest tune of a VQ naturally aspirated at around 370HP. Many tuners have used turbos on the VQ. I think Top Secret did a custom turbo set-up for the VQ and managed to push HP to a bit over 600.

I'm not sure if it's actually been done, but I have not seen any naturally aspirated VQ be pushed to over 8000 RPM.

Because the 2GR-FSE has two fuel injectors per cylinder, I believe it has tremendous potential for forced induction. It can reach almost 500HP naturally aspirated, and I believe it can hit much higher with forced induction. Some IS fans actually have inquired to Eaton whether their supercharger that's used in the TRD Aurion is compatible with the D4-S injection system in the 2GR-FSE.