2.0L 3ZR-FE for the new Corolla?

Last night, I was thinking why Toyota can't put a 2.0L instead of the 2ZR-FE engine for the new Rolla since Toyota already extended its launch by one whole year. I think everyone here thinks it would probably be the 1.8L 2ZR-FE, but in North America I don't think Toyota "just" want to be competitive with the likes of Honda (Civic) with it's base 1.8L, which is about on par with the 2ZR-FE. But to exceed them like last gens 1.8 vs 1.7. So I thought? Maybe Toyota does have something up their sleeves; maybe a 3rd generation ZR-FE engine? The next logical thing to do was to do a Google search for a 3ZR-FE. Many of the searches that popped up was irrelevant, but one was particularly intriguing was from this Japanese site:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://carstadium.net/Notebook/Toyota/Noah.html&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3D3zr-fe%26start%3D20%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:unofficial%26hs%3D83g%26sa%3DN

After translating, at the bottom it says the full model change for the Noah:

carstadium.net

2007 full model change
Full model change is planned in May of 07. New model Noah so far sort [hurendorii] which is conscious of family use adopts the styling. The interior Toyota to seem material feeling is high, width of practicality and the interior in addition as a mini- van improves to class top-level, the rival follows. As for becoming the eyeball with mechanism, as for on-board engine setting new development 3ZR-FE type 2.0L direct 4 to main. This engine being new model Corolla already, in enlargement edition of the 2ZR type which debuts, adopts dual VVT-i. In addition to this, it sets also the 3ZR-FAE type engine which adopts the stepless variable valve timing mechanism which is called the P system anew. Both mission adopts CVT. But power efficiency and improvement of fuel economy of course with the new engine, you call the especially P system car that nearly former compared to 20% fuel economy raises. The grade, “YY” of 5 passengers, “X” of 8 passengers and upper-class grade “G”, becomes 3 number width with [supotei] depending upon wide fender adoption, it designates 3 grades “of S” as the basis, respectively setting FF and 2WD. In addition completeness equipment “the L package” of convenient price is set to volume sales grade “X” distantly. In addition, it sets also the rhinoceros drift-up seat equipped car to “X” and “S”. Furthermore, as for the engine “S” of “YY” of FF and FF and 4WD 3ZR-FAE type, other than that becomes 3ZR-FE type. White pearl crystal Shine, silver metallic, gray metallic and black, dark lead mica metallic and the dark blue mica, planning the body color of setting schedule light/write blue mica metallic 7 colors. Price is held down to like existence.


What's even more interesting is it also talks about the "P system" Toyota's version of Honda's A-VTEC or stepless variable valve timing system.

Conspiracy theory, I don't know, but it sure gets your heart pounding!!!:clap::lol::whatwhat:

Well the 1ZZ has been around since 1998. I have no idea why Honda went from 1.6 to 1.7 in 2001 when they could jumped to 1.8 litres if they wanted to. I guess they just wanted to match the Corolla in fuel efficiency (which is pretty much identical in Canada) but unfortunately it lacked in numbers (115hp and 110lb-ft). Now with a more powerful 1.8 litre, the Civic feels much livelier and definitely how it should've felt in the first place. Oh and don't be fooled by the 155hp version in the Acura CSX. The extra power is pretty much offset by the extra weight. I've tested both a Civic EX and CSX Premium and they both feel roughly the same in terms of acceleration. I was expecting the CSX to give a bit more of a speed sensation when punching the throttle but it didn't. Either way, they're fairly comfortable and fun-to-drive. Anyway, enough about the Civic, on to the Corolla! It would be nice if they did drop a 2.0 litre. However if they put the 2ZR 1.8 litre and dropped all the goodies (e.g. dual VVT-i and direct injection), I'd gladly give up the 2.0 litre for a high tech 1.8 litre. It'll make more power, be more efficient and be slightly lighter. Dual VVT-i is unheard of in this category if I'm not mistaken so it'll be nice to see Toyota trickle down the technology to its inexpensive cars.

In Japan you can buy a corolla with a 2.4l 2AZ-FE its called Blade

Well the 1ZZ has been around since 1998. I have no idea why Honda went from 1.6 to 1.7 in 2001 when they could jumped to 1.8 litres if they wanted to. I guess they just wanted to match the Corolla in fuel efficiency (which is pretty much identical in Canada) but unfortunately it lacked in numbers (115hp and 110lb-ft). Now with a more powerful 1.8 litre, the Civic feels much livelier and definitely how it should've felt in the first place. Oh and don't be fooled by the 155hp version in the Acura CSX. The extra power is pretty much offset by the extra weight. I've tested both a Civic EX and CSX Premium and they both feel roughly the same in terms of acceleration. I was expecting the CSX to give a bit more of a speed sensation when punching the throttle but it didn't. Either way, they're fairly comfortable and fun-to-drive. Anyway, enough about the Civic, on to the Corolla! It would be nice if they did drop a 2.0 litre. However if they put the 2ZR 1.8 litre and dropped all the goodies (e.g. dual VVT-i and direct injection), I'd gladly give up the 2.0 litre for a high tech 1.8 litre. It'll make more power, be more efficient and be slightly lighter. Dual VVT-i is unheard of in this category if I'm not mistaken so it'll be nice to see Toyota trickle down the technology to its inexpensive cars.

No, I mean Toyota will make a 3rd generation ZR-FE engine which will be a 2.0L with all the goodies you said like dual vvti. In the article it says there will be an even more advance ZR engine called 3ZR-F"A"E, where it goes a step further with "stepless" dual vvti, which is like Honda's new A-VTEC, where the valves are optimized at all engine speeds.

Toyota recently filed for patents on something called "Valve Matic". This could actually be the marketing term for the "P" system.

The 2ZR-FE already has class-leading fuel economy, so this rumoured 3ZR-FAE sounds very interesting.

I believe Toyota has more in store in terms of engine innovations than even what they have now (Dual VVT-iE, D4-S). There is also some insider information that the IS-F's engine code is 2UR-GSE. This means the return of G heads, likely a new generation of G heads.

No, I mean Toyota will make a 3rd generation ZR-FE engine which will be a 2.0L with all the goodies you said like dual vvti. In the article it says there will be an even more advance ZR engine called 3ZR-F"A"E, where it goes a step further with "stepless" dual vvti, which is like Honda's new A-VTEC, where the valves are optimized at all engine speeds.

Ohhhh.... "excellent"

In that case, put it in the Corolla!! (and the Prius :D)

The new Matrix would be so much better if that engine is that much of an improvement over the 1zz.

I thought the current VVT-i and Dual VVT-i systems are stepless?

I thought the current VVT-i and Dual VVT-i systems are stepless?
Regular vvt-i doesn't have lift. With stepless, you can have a seamless "lift" at any rpm you want not like VVTL-i where you can only have lift at higher rpms and also you get valve variations in vvt-i for fuel economy. It's more like a mix of all the vvt technologies into one, but more efficient.

Regular vvt-i doesn't have lift. With stepless, you can have a seamless "lift" at any rpm you want not like VVTL-i where you can only have lift at higher rpms and also you get valve variations in vvt-i for fuel economy. It's more like a mix of all the vvt technologies into one, but more efficient.

That is incorrect. VVT-i in any form deals ONLY with variable cam phasing. There is no variable exhaust and intake cam lift (through multiple cam switch overs) in Dual VVT-i or VVT-i regardless of rpm.

To clear difference among each, this is the simplest definition of each:

VVT-i has variable valve timing only on intake valves (accomplished through constant cam phasing).

Dual VVT-i has variable valve timing on both intake and exhaust valves (accomplished through constant cam phasing of both intake/exhaust).

VVTL-i has variable valve timing only on intake valves + variable cam lift on both intake and exhaust cams.

That is incorrect. VVT-i in any form deals ONLY with variable cam phasing. There is no variable exhaust and intake cam lift (through multiple cam switch overs) in Dual VVT-i or VVT-i regardless of rpm.

To clear difference among each, this is the simplest definition of each:

VVT-i has variable valve timing only on intake valves (accomplished through constant cam phasing).

Dual VVT-i has variable valve timing on both intake and exhaust valves (accomplished through constant cam phasing of both intake/exhaust).

VVTL-i has variable valve timing only on intake valves + variable cam lift on both intake and exhaust cams.
That's what I said, I said vvt-i doesn't have lift. The seamless part is of a new tech that Toyota is calling maybe "Valve Matic" to go against Honda's new A-vtec where all kinds of valve durations can occur (including Lift) at any particuler rpm.

Toyota recently filed for patents on something called "Valve Matic". This could actually be the marketing term for the "P" system.

The 2ZR-FE already has class-leading fuel economy, so this rumoured 3ZR-FAE sounds very interesting.

I believe Toyota has more in store in terms of engine innovations than even what they have now (Dual VVT-iE, D4-S). There is also some insider information that the IS-F's engine code is 2UR-GSE. This means the return of G heads, likely a new generation of G heads.

Very interesting, indeed. It must be a Formula 1 derived technology. The trickle-down effect is working finally.

Very interesting, indeed. It must be a Formula 1 derived technology. The trickle-down effect is working finally.

I thought F1 doesn't allow variable valve timing systems?

I thought F1 doesn't allow variable valve timing systems?

You're right. I suppose Toyota is following BMW's stepless valve technology (Valvetronic).

That is incorrect. VVT-i in any form deals ONLY with variable cam phasing. There is no variable exhaust and intake cam lift (through multiple cam switch overs) in Dual VVT-i or VVT-i regardless of rpm.

To clear difference among each, this is the simplest definition of each:

VVT-i has variable valve timing only on intake valves (accomplished through constant cam phasing).

Dual VVT-i has variable valve timing on both intake and exhaust valves (accomplished through constant cam phasing of both intake/exhaust).

VVTL-i has variable valve timing only on intake valves + variable cam lift on both intake and exhaust cams.
what's variable cam?

what's variable cam?

Just a simplified explanation for engine having different dedicated cams with different degree of 'lift' operating at different engine speeds i.e a dedicated economy cam that operates below 6000 rpm and a race cam with high degree of lift operating from 6000 to 8400 rpm etc.

^ Wait I just got thinking how are they gonna change the lobes of the cams all the time?

Just a simplified explanation for engine having different dedicated cams with different degree of 'lift' operating at different engine speeds i.e a dedicated economy cam that operates below 6000 rpm and a race cam with high degree of lift operating from 6000 to 8400 rpm etc.
ohh, thanks

Very interesting, indeed. It must be a Formula 1 derived technology. The trickle-down effect is working finally.

This rumoured stepless VVT likely isn't Formula 1 related. But make no mistake, a lot of knowledge and technology from F1 is trickling down into production Toyota models. In fact, the UR V8 was developed in parallel with Toyota's V10 engine program. The UR has some F1-inspired technology and engineering. The IS-F's 2UR-GSE likely will be even more race-inspired.

This rumoured stepless VVT likely isn't Formula 1 related. But make no mistake, a lot of knowledge and technology from F1 is trickling down into production Toyota models. In fact, the UR V8 was developed in parallel with Toyota's V10 engine program. The UR has some F1-inspired technology and engineering. The IS-F's 2UR-GSE likely will be even more race-inspired.
Vasia, how about D-4S, when do you think Toyota will put Direct-Injection into their engines not just in Lexus?

http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/tech/environment/powertrain/engine/index.html

http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/tech/environment/powertrain/engine/image/p01.jpg

http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/tech/environment/powertrain/engine/image/p02.gif

D-4S probably isn't cost effective enough for run of the mill Toyota models right now. I'm sure it'll be cheaper in the future. From the engineering reports I've seen, it improves low to mid range torque and responsiveness of an engine. It's only been used on high performance engines as of now though, so the 2UR-GSE, 2GR-FSE, and others reap the benefits of the system. Compression ratios are currently stable at 11.8:1, though it may be higher on the 2UR-GSE.

What's VVT-iE? I've heard of the others but never heard of this one.

VVT-iE is currently being used on the new LS's 4.6 v8. the E is for electric, the valve timing is controlled electronically

In Japan you can buy a corolla with a 2.4l 2AZ-FE its called Blade


Blade is coming to NA it's just a matter of what form it takes.

Indeed, D4-S (and D4 to an extent) remain somewhat pricey. It appears Toyota is using D4-S exclusively in Lexus engines, and it may stay that way. Toyota after all wants greater differentiation between Lexus and Toyota models, and this is one way to do it: exclusive engines.

Now, some of Toyota's 4 cyl engines in Japan do have the D4 system, so there's a chance we might see D4 engines being sold worldwide in Toyota models. Or instead, Toyota may focus on other improvements, like that new stepless system, or that mysterious "Valve Matic", which is likely a marketing name for the stepless VVT.

D4-S combined with Dual VVT-I improves overall power, fuel economy, not to mention low-mid-high torque. Dual VVT-I helps with a flat torque curve throughout the rev range. The stepless VVT should be an even bigger help. It will be interesting to see which Toyota engine gets it first, whether Valve Matic is actually this system, and what the new G heads on the IS-F engine will bring.

Ya, I read an article about how Toyota couldn't bring earlier D4 engines here because they couldn't meet U.S cold start emissions requirements. But that all changed with D4-Superior Version (D-4S).

Article from SAE:

http://www.sae.org/automag/globalview_09-00/04.htm

Toyota has no plan to install the second-generation D4 engine in models destined for the U.S. or Europe. A senior engineer concedes that the engine system has not yet met America's stringent cold-start emissions requirements. Neither the NOx storing-and-cleansing catalyst could stand up to the relatively high sulfur content of European fuel.


Like I said before, this all changed with D-4S:
SAE

http://www.sae.org/technical/papers/2006-01-1259

Fuel economy is improved compared to a conventional DISI engine with both injectors optimized to improve combustion. As for improvement of the exhaust emissions, simultaneous injection by the two injectors is effective in reduction of HC emissions during cold start.

VVT-iE is currently being used on the new LS's 4.6 v8. the E is for electric, the valve timing is controlled electronically

Thanks! I kind of figured "E" was for Electronic. So instead (from my understanding) oil or seloniods, the cam timing is controlled electrically? I don't have a totall grasp of this stuff but I'm learning. Is there any major or somewhat advantage compared to the other VVT-i set ups? Or is that sales gimmick of its "electronically controlled." But isn't the "intellegent" part the computer (ECU) so isn't that considered electronic? Or is this something else? Sorry I'm a noob but I'm just curious.:D :thumbup:

Thanks! I kind of figured "E" was for Electronic. So instead (from my understanding) oil or seloniods, the cam timing is controlled electrically? I don't have a totall grasp of this stuff but I'm learning. Is there any major or somewhat advantage compared to the other VVT-i set ups? Or is that sales gimmick of its "electronically controlled." But isn't the "intellegent" part the computer (ECU) so isn't that considered electronic? Or is this something else? Sorry I'm a noob but I'm just curious.:D :thumbup:

It helps with cold start performance since cold oil (and generally thicker) isn't running through a hydraulic actuator for the intake VVT-i mechanism. Instead, the electronic system uses an electronically controlled actuator to vary intake cam timing.

The whole point of the system, however, is precision.

It helps with cold start performance since cold oil (and generally thicker) isn't running through a hydraulic actuator for the intake VVT-i mechanism. Instead, the electronic system uses an electronically controlled actuator to vary intake cam timing.

The whole point of the system, however, is precision.


Hey, thanks for the explaination. I'm always interested in your posts cause you have so much to say and you seem pretty on top of things when it comes to this stuff. So precision as in cam timing, which would in turn increase effeciency as far as power and fuel mileage? So in other words its more accurate to get the most out of the engine as far as power and mileage right?:thumbup:

Guys, I just saw the article on autoblog about the unveiling of the Aussie "Corolla Super 2000 rally car". What got me going was the engine they say were using:

which is powered by a 2.0 liter, 255 horsepower normally-aspirated four-cylinder that runs up to the class-mandated 8,500 rpm maximum.
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/03/02/toyota-unveils-corolla-super-2000-rally-car/

Could this be the new 3ZR-F"A"E we were talking about? A.K.A "ValveMatic", A.K.A "P-System", A.K.A "Stepless VVT", A.K.A "VVTL-I replacement".:naughty::whatwhat::smokin:

I think the engine is probably designed by Yamaha like 2ZZ-GE

To the Aussies in this forum. Do you guys have info on this engine?

Hey, thanks for the explaination. I'm always interested in your posts cause you have so much to say and you seem pretty on top of things when it comes to this stuff. So precision as in cam timing, which would in turn increase effeciency as far as power and fuel mileage? So in other words its more accurate to get the most out of the engine as far as power and mileage right?:thumbup:

Yeah exactly. Once the dual VVT-i system becomes fully electronic, we'll see some very efficient and powerful engines. Thanks for the kind words as well.

Dual VVT-iE?

sweeet. Any idea how much more efficient/powerful?

ops.. ment to make a new topic

Guys, I just saw the article on autoblog about the unveiling of the Aussie "Corolla Super 2000 rally car". What got me going was the engine they say were using:


http://www.autoblog.com/2007/03/02/toyota-unveils-corolla-super-2000-rally-car/

Could this be the new 3ZR-F"A"E we were talking about? A.K.A "ValveMatic", A.K.A "P-System", A.K.A "Stepless VVT", A.K.A "VVTL-I replacement".:naughty::whatwhat::smokin:

I think the engine is probably designed by Yamaha like 2ZZ-GE

To the Aussies in this forum. Do you guys have info on this engine?

Interesting, I wonder if it is a ZR engine.

Ya, I read an article about how Toyota couldn't bring earlier D4 engines here because they couldn't meet U.S cold start emissions requirements. But that all changed with D4-Superior Version (D-4S).

Article from SAE:

http://www.sae.org/automag/globalview_09-00/04.htm




Like I said before, this all changed with D-4S:
SAE

http://www.sae.org/technical/papers/2006-01-1259

Interesting article, however, I think that the engine of 2006 GS300 in US is D4 Version ;)

Interesting article, however, I think that the engine of 2006 GS300 in US is D4 Version ;)

Weird, this is the only engine in North America that has D4. Maybe they did make some improvements to it since the article is 6 years old and the engineer did say, "the engine system has not yet met America's stringent cold-start emissions requirements.":confused:

Though, Lexus is more about performance than fuel emissions than Toyota.

Weird, this is the only engine in North America that has D4. Maybe they did make some improvements to it since the article is 6 years old and the engineer did say, "the engine system has not yet met America's stringent cold-start emissions requirements.":confused:

Though, Lexus is more about performance than fuel emissions than Toyota.


To clear up some things, North American fuel is clean enough to support D4 and D4-S. In fact, both the IS250, and the 2006 GS300 have D4. With the GS300 replaced by the GS350, the IS250 remains the only vehicle with D4. I believe it is the fuel in other countries, like in certain areas of the Middle East, which restricts the use of D4 and D4-S systems. Although I haven't looked it up myself, apparently Lexus models sold in the Middle East don't have Direct Injection systems on them.

There are plenty of D-4 engines from other manufacturers in North America.

whats the difference between D4, D4-S, direct injection? I thought all Lexus engines (excepth ES and RX and trucks) have direction inject or D4 or D4-s?

There are plenty of D-4 engines from other manufacturers in North America.

Well D4 is simply Toyota's Direct Gasoline Injection system, and yes, there are other gasoline direct injection engines in North America.

whats the difference between D4, D4-S, direct injection? I thought all Lexus engines (excepth ES and RX and trucks) have direction inject or D4 or D4-s?

D4 is just direct injection, D4-S is both port and direct injection. The D4 and D4-S names are specific to Toyota engines. Other manufacturers have gasoline direct injection under different names.

Found out some interesting details about the Valvematic system, and the rumoured 3ZR. Looks like the 3ZR-FAE is the name, and that it's going into production. The redesigned JDM Toyota Premio/Allion is going to get the engine at the end of the year.

http://allion-premio.img.jugem.jp/20070417_311112.jpg
http://allion-premio.jugem.jp/

Specs-wise, it's a 2.0L with 158HP @ 6200 RPM, and 145 lb-ft @ 4400 RPM. It's also more fuel efficient than Toyota's ZZ engines. Valvematic is supposed to improve both power and fuel economy. It's a stepless valve lift system allowing continuous variable valve lift. That is of course on top of the Dual VVT-i the engine also has.

Now what's interesting is whether the Valvematic will work only on the intake, or exhaust valves as well. BMW's Valvetronic for comparison offers continuously variable valve lift only on the intake tract. If Toyota's system offers it for both intake and exhaust valves, then they will be a step ahead of BMW.

Also to consider is that BMW's Valvetronic adds a lot of valvetrain mass, and engine speeds are limited to about 7K RPM. That, and so far Valvetronic has not been put on any of BMW's direct injection engines. That includes the new 3.0L twin turbo engine. This is due to lack of room in the cylinder head.

If Toyota's ValveMatic can operate beyond 7K RPM, and if it can be added to Toyota's direct injection engines, then ValveMatic will have a clear advantage over Valvetronic. It will also be interesting to see how Valvetronic and Valvematic compare to A-VTEC.

With that said, if the redesigned USDM Corolla gets the 3ZR-FAE engine, then the competition is going to have a real tough time, and that would include the Honda Civic. This engine is a big leap over the mass-market ZZ engines, and really any Toyota model that gets this engine replacing a ZZ engine will have a marked competitive advantage.

Guys, I just saw the article on autoblog about the unveiling of the Aussie "Corolla Super 2000 rally car". What got me going was the engine they say were using:


http://www.autoblog.com/2007/03/02/toyota-unveils-corolla-super-2000-rally-car/

Could this be the new 3ZR-F"A"E we were talking about? A.K.A "ValveMatic", A.K.A "P-System", A.K.A "Stepless VVT", A.K.A "VVTL-I replacement".:naughty::whatwhat::smokin:

I think the engine is probably designed by Yamaha like 2ZZ-GE

To the Aussies in this forum. Do you guys have info on this engine?

Hey. I've been learning about the Aussie TRD models that are being offered as well as the S-2000 Corolla. The engine is still the bad ass 3SGE. If the ZR series engines are aluminum or alloy then i dont think that it would power that corolla. There's a video of that car in youtube where they show the inside of the exhaust canister glowing. To my knowledge, only an iron block is capable of taking that abuse w/o much danger of heat warping the metal. I'll post the link as soon as i find it.

Toyota has revealed its new Corolla rally car at the Melbourne International Motor Show.
The striking new race car will be the world's first new model Corolla homologated to the FIA's Super 2000 (S2000) specifications.
The S2000 category was developed by the FIA to allow manufacturers to build relatively inexpensive rally cars using a common, controlled formula.
S2000's introduction will see the end of Toyota's Group N Prototype Corolla rally car - the vehicle that delivered the manufacturer first and second in the 2006 NEC Australian Rally Championship, as well as the manufacturers' championship.
The common elements to S2000 include engines, gearboxes and weight restrictions.
The TRD team is developing the 2.0-litre four-cylinder naturally aspirated 3SGE engine for the new car.
Providing approximately 190kW of power and 240Nm of torque, the engine revs to a high limit of 8500rpm.
The car's pace is enhanced by its low specified weight - a mere 1150 kilograms.
The SADEV six-speed sequential gearbox is another controlled element of the S2000 specification.
TRD-specific components on the new car include MCA shock absorbers built by Murray Coote, and an AP Racing brake package with four spot callipers front and rear, with 300mm rotors.
"I'm a big fan of the Super 2000 category," said TRD team boss Neal Bates.
"The dynamics are a lot better than our old car because it is so much lighter and it will provide us with the opportunity to compete on the world stage in the Asia-Pacific rounds of the World Rally Championship.
"The S2000 category will also allow for the development of controlled parts for all manufacturers which will ultimately provide lower costs.
"Apart from this, the sound of the engine revving up to 8500rpm is amazing.
"We have been very encouraged by our first tests in the development car - the Group N (P) car had reached a plateau in terms of development, but it is exciting for us to try and make this new one as fast as possible."
2006 Australian Rally Champion Simon Evans cannot wait to get hold of the new car in competition.
"It is a great-looking car," he said. "The shape of the new Corolla and the new livery are really striking.
"There is still a lot of development to go to have it right for the Rally of Canberra, but our test times have been competitive.
"I think S2000 has all the ingredients to appeal to both manufacturers and motorsport fans - particularly when they hear the cars howling through the forest."
Simon and Sue Evans will drive the current shape Group N (P) Corolla at the first two rounds of the Australian Rally Championship in Queensland and Western Australia.
Neal Bates and Coral Taylor will run these events in a current shape S2000 development car - converted from a Group N (P) Corolla.
It is expected that two brand-new Corolla S2000 rally cars will be debuted during Round 3 of the championship in Canberra.
Feedback, corrections or suggestions? Let us know.

http://www.trd.com.au/TRD/#main/motorsport/rally/rallyArticles:article=020307newRallyCar

That engine needs to make a comeback. An engine like that in a corolla would put a lot of cars in their places. It's sad that toyota didnt put that engine in a MR-S or Celica b4 they killed the models.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=p-srW2AkzXg heres the link to the S-2000 Corolla video.

So when is the 2zz replacement comming up? I'm intrested in hearing about that.

So when is the 2zz replacement comming up? I'm intrested in hearing about that.

It's likely coming soon, and probably is going to be a high performance ZR engine.

So Yahama headwork lift and everything? If it can beat Honda's K series, then thats something.

^^^ Didn't read everything, but from seeing the animated-gifs of how the valve-lift works, this system looks quite interesting, and promising too.

I think the only question (as always) is reliability/durability, talking about like 10 years of normal to hard usage.


EDIT: I suggest that you post a brand new thread about this variable-valve system in General Discussion or Off Topic, to avoid "hijacking" this thread. Thank you.

^^Yeah I agree.

i drover 1.6 ZR engine in Auris and it is pretty nice - good step up from ZZ series. Lower consumption, less NVH, and much better response in lower rpm's... pulls cleanly from bottom...

i drover 1.6 ZR engine in Auris and it is pretty nice - good step up from ZZ series. Lower consumption, less NVH, and much better response in lower rpm's... pulls cleanly from bottom...

Low end response and torque is said to be a big improvement over the ZZ series. The ZR is very likely superior in torque and low end response than any comparable Honda engine, and the 1.8L ZR is supposed to be best-in-class for fuel efficiency. And that is just the regular Dual VVT-i ZR. I can only imagine how much better the Valvematic ZR engines will be.

As mentioned in the begin of this topic. It was suggested that Toyota would fit the new Corolla with a 2.0 liter 3ZR-FEA engine with a new variable valve system.

Not this appears on the Toyota site: http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/news/07/0612.html

Looks like the 3ZR-FEA engine is not a rumour but a thruth. Don't start shouting from the roofs that Toyota has a world premiere for using the valve lift as throttle. BMW is using this for some years already.

As mentioned in the begin of this topic. It was suggested that Toyota would fit the new Corolla with a 2.0 liter 3ZR-FEA engine with a new variable valve system.

Not this appears on the Toyota site: http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/news/07/0612.html

Looks like the 3ZR-FEA engine is not a rumour but a thruth. Don't start shouting from the roofs that Toyota has a world premiere for using the valve lift as throttle. BMW is using this for some years already.


YAY, good job Gekko, jus wanted to know when Toyota will confirmation of this tech. Ya, BMW invented it but u'll know Toyota/Honda will make it alot more compact/lightweight and fuel efficient.=better

Jus have to guess when yota will put this in the new rolla since the workers at the assembling plants already r claiming the new rolla to have jus the 1.8 2zr-fe and 2az.

HAHA, 0-60 around 7.4seconds should be bout right!!!:clap:

Low end response and torque is said to be a big improvement over the ZZ series. The ZR is very likely superior in torque and low end response than any comparable Honda engine, and the 1.8L ZR is supposed to be best-in-class for fuel efficiency. And that is just the regular Dual VVT-i ZR. I can only imagine how much better the Valvematic ZR engines will be.

haha.. ok.. so delay the NA launch of the Corolla so that we can get the 3ZR ;). Now *that* would be worth waiting.

As mentioned in the begin of this topic. It was suggested that Toyota would fit the new Corolla with a 2.0 liter 3ZR-FEA engine with a new variable valve system.

Not this appears on the Toyota site: http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/news/07/0612.html

Looks like the 3ZR-FEA engine is not a rumour but a thruth. Don't start shouting from the roofs that Toyota has a world premiere for using the valve lift as throttle. BMW is using this for some years already.

You are correct, but keep in mind BMW's Valvetronic engines still come with a throttle body/throttle plate. The throttle body is not removed, but stays fully open must of the time allowing the Valvetronic system to do it's work. If the Valvetronic fails, then the engine must use the traditional throttle body once again.

It looks like the Toyota system does not even have a throttle body at all. If that is 100% confirmed to be the case, then it would different from BMW's system.

I would assume Toyota's system would be different in that I'm sure BMW patent the technology or intellectual rights or whatever. Obviously i"m sure there will be some similarities but Toyota's will build off of existing technology but with their own take on it?:thumbup:

YAY, good job Gekko, jus wanted to know when Toyota will confirmation of this tech. Ya, BMW invented it but u'll know Toyota/Honda will make it alot more compact/lightweight and fuel efficient.=better

Jus have to guess when yota will put this in the new rolla since the workers at the assembling plants already r claiming the new rolla to have jus the 1.8 2zr-fe and 2az.

HAHA, 0-60 around 7.4seconds should be bout right!!!:clap:
That's faster than my 1ZZ Matrix.

haha.. ok.. so delay the NA launch of the Corolla so that we can get the 3ZR ;). Now *that* would be worth waiting.If they put the 2ZR in a cheapo Scion, I wonder what will be in the Corolla?

I've studied the details of the 'ValveMatic' system. But the 3ZR-FAE will not be the successor of the VVTL-i 2ZZ-GE engine. The ValveMatic system can only variate lift of the inlet valves from almost no lift (idle throttle) to normal lift (same as the 3ZR-FE engine). The VVTL-i system was able to increase lift beyond normal for high RPM (+6400rpm i thought). The 'ValveMatic' in the 3ZR-FAE engine is not used to give extra valve lift in the high RPM range. Redline of the engine will be (electronically) set somewhere between the 6400 and 6800rpm.

I'll still wonder if Toyota will come with a new performance engine. If you look at the current engine lineup of Toyota there is no engine present that can be put in the line of the allmighty GE,GZE and GTE engines. Allthrough, the 3S-G(T)E engine is still produced for the ST246W Toyota Caldina GT-FOUR and the new Toyota Corolla Super 2000 Rally car. Which is odd because, don't get me wrong, the 3S-G(T)E engine is a great engine, but a bit heavy compared with todays competiters. But on the positive side.. ..if you break one of them.. ..don't blame the engine but go ask yourself how in h*ll you accomplished it. I've never heard of a 3S-G(T)E failure beside those that did overdone themself with turbopressure.

VVT-i also started out on only one cam but now we have it on both, this engine is an economy engine plain and simple. They could however use a variation of this system geared towards power, all they would have to do is allow for greater than normal valve lift and duration. Honda does the same thing with their i-VTEC system, there are acctually two variations, the economy one does not increase valve lift but instead uses 12 valves to decrease fuel consumption and then when you need more power the cam switches over and all 16 valves are activated, the other system is the one that most people assotiate with VTEC where the cam switches over and and the larger lobe is used to increase lift and durration. They both use the same basic concept of a cam switch over mechanism but in different ways to achieve different results.

I've studied the details of the 'ValveMatic' system. But the 3ZR-FAE will not be the successor of the VVTL-i 2ZZ-GE engine. The ValveMatic system can only variate lift of the inlet valves from almost no lift (idle throttle) to normal lift (same as the 3ZR-FE engine). The VVTL-i system was able to increase lift beyond normal for high RPM (+6400rpm i thought). The 'ValveMatic' in the 3ZR-FAE engine is not used to give extra valve lift in the high RPM range. Redline of the engine will be (electronically) set somewhere between the 6400 and 6800rpm.


You are correct. VVTL-i has variable valve timing on intake valves only, but it has variable lift on both the exhaust and intake cams.

haha.. ok.. so delay the NA launch of the Corolla so that we can get the 3ZR ;). Now *that* would be worth waiting.


toyota announced that they will move all of their engines to Valvematic technology by 2010, so you bet they think it will make difference... together with up to 10% fuel saving, there is also 10% performance gain.

toyota announced that they will move all of their engines to Valvematic technology by 2010, so you bet they think it will make difference... together with up to 10% fuel saving, there is also 10% performance gain.


As long as it comes with a Valvemactic badge for any future Toyota I get so I can put it on to get the added power:lol: :lol: :lol:

V-Mac for short?

"Hey honey, this one has V-Mac in it":lol: :lol:
See Toyota can be as rice as Honda, if they wanted too:lol: :thumbup:

It was a Corolla Axio in light green, with manufacturer plates. It was exiting the 405-South. It had steel wheels w/o wheel covers. It wasn't camouflaged so either we're not going to see that exact body build or it's so close to production that Toyota doesn't care if its spotted. Nevertheless, it's cool to see a car that no one else knows what it is.

VVT-i = manage ONLY intake valves at all engine RPM
Dual VVT-i manage BOTH intake and exhaust valve at all engine RPM nothing more...no lift

Now 2.0L 3ZR-FAE featuring the Valvematic is official, 156hp@6,200rpm, 145lb-ft@4.400rpm, paired with Super CVT-i. Hopefully this will become one option of the upcoming Corolla's powertrains.

http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/news/07/0627.html

^^^Thanks for the link. I like that Voxy ZS or something like that. Cool little car.

Now 2.0L 3ZR-FAE featuring the Valvematic is official, 156hp@6,200rpm, 145lb-ft@4.400rpm, paired with Super CVT-i. Hopefully this will become one option of the upcoming Corolla's powertrains.

http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/news/07/0627.html

The 3ZR-FAE was not expected to hit until winter, so Toyota has surprised us. Now with both Nissan and Toyota having their variable valve systems on the market, Honda has yet to put their A-VTEC system onto the market.

Also, the 3ZR-FE, identical to the 3ZR-FAE expect for Valvematic, puts out 141HP and 143 lb-ft. That means Valvematic in this case allowed for a solid 10% increase in HP, a slight increase in torque, and according to Japanese fuel economy standards, a 6-7% fuel economy improvement.

It was a Corolla Axio in light green, with manufacturer plates. It was exiting the 405-South. It had steel wheels w/o wheel covers. It wasn't camouflaged so either we're not going to see that exact body build or it's so close to production that Toyota doesn't care if its spotted. Nevertheless, it's cool to see a car that no one else knows what it is.

This is probably what I saw.

http://www.zshare.net/image/3006608cdb7e6e/

i thought thats for the japan market?

It's the JDM Corolla (Axio, I think). Auto News predicts Toyota offering a very similar vehicle with a 1.8 and 2.4 4-cyl.

so what's the axio doing in the states? everyones assuming we will get something like the euro corolla in design....

so what's the axio doing in the states? everyones assuming we will get something like the euro corolla in design....

My best guess is that the US '09 Corolla is using the same floorpanel design and the same floorpanel dimensions as the EU/JDM Corolla/Auris. So, to test the '09 US Corolla they can use the '09 car and use a lot of cardbord and stickytape to prevent people (and rivals) from seeing the actual car, or use a JDM Corolla Axio, put in the US engine(-setup) and set the suspension to the US settings and you have a perfect testcar.

My best guess is that the US '09 Corolla is using the same floorpanel design and the same floorpanel dimensions as the EU/JDM Corolla/Auris. So, to test the '09 US Corolla they can use the '09 car and use a lot of cardbord and stickytape to prevent people (and rivals) from seeing the actual car, or use a JDM Corolla Axio, put in the US engine(-setup) and set the suspension to the US settings and you have a perfect testcar.

I agree. They would never let the USDM Corolla be seen out in public, so whatever Toyota allows us to see is just to fool us.

Maybe they're using the JDM model as a benchmark or a test vehicle to compare it with the US/Canadian made versions to make sure there are no quality/reliability problems at launch. Who knows, maybe the new generation could bring it back to the 95-97 Corolla glory days of indestructible reliability.:)

Apart from not letting it interfere with the Tundra launch, the Corolla's launch was delayed in North America so they could double-check quality and make sure the transition went smoothly at the Cambridge factory. They are most definitely checking the quality of the prototype US Corollas against that of production JDM Corollas to make sure fit-and-finish is up there and any other quality issues are resolved.The USDM Corolla's launch has also been altered by the quality initiatives put in place company-wide to improve quality overall. One aspect of that is making more prototypes and doing more testing.

I expect this new Corolla's quality to be quite good, but more importantly I expect the next-gen's quality (2012-2013 Corolla) to be top notch. One of the initiatives Toyota put in place also includes more exact blueprints, and we will start to the real impact of all these initiatives with 2010-2011 Toyota models.

The generation of Corolla that is coming out next spring....would it run to approx. 2013???

Near the end of the new generation, I should be ready to replace my 2000.

The generation of Corolla that is coming out next spring....would it run to approx. 2013???



I guess if you follow the industry standard or adverage for cars of 5 years with a mid-life update and if you look at Corolla's life-cycle pattern then yes I guess 2013 would be the next redesign but since this car was delayed to be all new for 09 then the cycle will be pushed up one year so 2014 will be the new Corolla but that's so far away! Lets focus on now!:thumbup:

Apart from not letting it interfere with the Tundra launch, the Corolla's launch was delayed in North America so they could double-check quality and make sure the transition went smoothly at the Cambridge factory. They are most definitely checking the quality of the prototype US Corollas against that of production JDM Corollas to make sure fit-and-finish is up there and any other quality issues are resolved.The USDM Corolla's launch has also been altered by the quality initiatives put in place company-wide to improve quality overall. One aspect of that is making more prototypes and doing more testing.

I expect this new Corolla's quality to be quite good, but more importantly I expect the next-gen's quality (2012-2013 Corolla) to be top notch. One of the initiatives Toyota put in place also includes more exact blueprints, and we will start to the real impact of all these initiatives with 2010-2011 Toyota models.

You mentioned the Cambridge, Ontario facility...hopefully included in that is the NUMMI facility in Fremont, California where a good number of USDM Corolla's are manufactured.

You mentioned the Cambridge, Ontario facility...hopefully included in that is the NUMMI facility in Fremont, California where a good number of USDM Corolla's are manufactured.

Yes, you're right. I mentioned Cambridge because I recently heard about them running Corolla prototypes out there, but NUMMI as well is likely running prototypes. Some people who have insider access have said they've seen the new Matrix and new Corolla at NUMMI and they say both look good. Cambridge insiders also say the new Corolla and Matrix look good.

The common theme is that the Corolla has a strong Yaris resemblance with a few Camry cues, as for the Matrix all I keep hearing is that it's a "radical" design and can't be compared to any current Toyota.

Yes, you're right. I mentioned Cambridge because I recently heard about them running Corolla prototypes out there, but NUMMI as well is likely running prototypes. Some people who have insider access have said they've seen the new Matrix and new Corolla at NUMMI and they say both look good. Cambridge insiders also say the new Corolla and Matrix look good.

The common theme is that the Corolla has a strong Yaris resemblance with a few Camry cues, as for the Matrix all I keep hearing is that it's a "radical" design and can't be compared to any current Toyota.

I live in Fremont and I'm scheduled to tour the NUMMI plant on Sept 26th. Interestingly enough when I was booking my reservation online there was a disclaimer saying "Due to our new model launch, we will not be offering tours in October 2007." I know at that time I won't see any of the new Corolla's unfortunately. I've always wanted to tour a Toyota plant. NUMMI has won many awards for Toyota over the years. They build both the Corolla and Tacoma truck and I believe the Pontiac Vibe (GM version of the Matrix).

i'm hoping toyota offers both the 1.8 and the 2.0 in the corolla.this will allow them to offer a version that's competitive power wise and a version that still offers an epa highway close to 35.

Yes, you're right. I mentioned Cambridge because I recently heard about them running Corolla prototypes out there, but NUMMI as well is likely running prototypes. Some people who have insider access have said they've seen the new Matrix and new Corolla at NUMMI and they say both look good. Cambridge insiders also say the new Corolla and Matrix look good.

The common theme is that the Corolla has a strong Yaris resemblance with a few Camry cues, as for the Matrix all I keep hearing is that it's a "radical" design and can't be compared to any current Toyota.



there are pretty good matrix spy shots elsewhere on this forum.looks good.