Yaris is cute, but Toyota's skimping isn't

Weekend Drive
Yaris is cute, but Toyota's skimping isn't
Dan Neil / Los Angeles Times


Toyota Motor Corp. is the colossus of roads. It is, or soon will be, the largest car company in the world. Its worldwide sales are up year after year, as are its profits, as are its stock prices. In the U.S., the world's largest car market, Toyota's sales rose 12.5 percent in 2006, grabbing even more market share from the oxygen-starved domestics. To meet the demand, the company is putting down factories and expanding facilities in this country like it was playing automotive Monopoly.

The company builds Lexus, the best-selling luxury brand in the U.S. It builds the Prius, the hybrid shuttlecraft with more green cachet than macrobiotic tofu. It created Scion, which in three years went from a Scrabble word to the last word in Gen-Y branding.
So is this the company that can do no wrong? Not really.

I give you the Toyota Yaris, a surprisingly routine and summarily undelightful B-class subcompact that feels as mailed-in as if it had a stamp on it. Cute? Sure, in an entomological way, i.e., it kind of looks like a bug you would pin to a corkboard.

Cheap? Oh yes, to a fault. The $11,530 MSRP (with delivery) can't make room for things like a radio/CD/MP3, anti-lock brakes, rear-window wiper or rear fogger, or split-folding rear seat. Our test car had another $3,210 of options: alloy wheels, power windows and doors, four-speaker audio with CD/MP3 player, ABS, front side-air bags, side curtain air bags. But up against other recent B-class urban runabouts -- the Honda Fit, the Nissan Versa -- the Yaris is less car for more money. And tinny. Compared with the sealed and muffled character of the Honda Fit, this thing's got more ring-a-ding than Frank Sinatra at Caesars Palace.

More at link:
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070331/AUTO03/703310363

The article is from detroit news, nuff said.

Well duh! The Yaris is "cheap." Its Toyota's lowest priced car, obviously Toyota is going to "skimp" because of its price/class point for the NA version, although I know the Canadian ones are more equiped, besides small cars aren't as popular in the U.S, I highly doubt an Average American will pay 20k for a Yaris when they can get a bigger car for that money even if they have similar features. It's suppose to be a affordable car sure the competition may offer more bang for your buck but that's relative to whom you talk to (referring to Yaris owners). I test drove both the Yaris hatch and sedan and both are competent vechicals for their class. If you want cheap go with the ECHO at least N/A version...oh wait I have it:lol: :lol: Its a nice car but its cheap, no offense to my fellow ECHO owners, BTW I own the sedan version 2-door. If you want Toyota reliability and "non-cheap" and bang for your buck go with Scion, they are a good value regardless if you like them or not.

But I digress...:thumbup:

The article is from detroit news, nuff said.

NO. . . . it is from the LA times, which is where detnews.com got the article from. . . . .

Weekend Drive
Yaris is cute, but Toyota's skimping isn't
Dan Neil / Los Angeles Times

Cheap? Oh yes, to a fault. The $11,530 MSRP (with delivery) can't make room for things like a radio/CD/MP3, anti-lock brakes, rear-window wiper or rear fogger, or split-folding rear seat. Our test car had another $3,210 of options: alloy wheels, power windows and doors, four-speaker audio with CD/MP3 player, ABS, front side-air bags, side curtain air bags. But up against other recent B-class urban runabouts -- the Honda Fit, the Nissan Versa -- the Yaris is less car for more money.
Standard Toyota sales practice. Perfect for consumer who wants the absolute base bargain, or for enthusiasts who wants to customize it their own ways. Great base for a track-day car as well.
Naysayers can always opt for the Fit or Versa, which are great value for money.

I'm still amazed at how much Toyota has managed to pull out of the Yaris for the US marked.
ABS is an option? Is the thing even delivered with wheels?
I wonder how much of the insulation that has been removed as well since he can call it "tinny". The Yarises I have driven have been anything but tinny.

The suspension is even detuned so that he can say the ancient Honda Jazz (Fit) drives better? Granted. The Jazz was a mini MPV that drove well, but that was 6 years ago!

And since when did the C-class (Corolla size) Versa become a B-class car?



Here are some examples of European reviews if you want to know what the real Yaris is: http://www.autobild.de/test/neuwagen/artikel.php?artikel_id=11343
http://www.autobild.de/test/neuwagen/artikel.php?artikel_id=12481
(Use babelfish or google translate if you don't know German)

It is worth noticing that the competition in Europe is extremely tough and that the German car magazine likes German car makers like Volkswagen and Opel. But even that and the fact that the Opel Corsa is brand new wasn't enough to take away the victory from Yaris.

Standard Toyota sales practice. Perfect for consumer who wants the absolute base bargain, or for enthusiasts who wants to customize it their own ways. Great base for a track-day car as well.


track day or trail day.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v373/Deathrunner/Deatharis.jpg

^^^ :lol: nice photochop, and the MPG just went through the roof for a Yaris

There's no excuse: side airbags and ABS should be standard.

And since when did the C-class (Corolla size) Versa become a B-class car?
.


Yeah, you're right the Versa is classified and consider a C-class car, even the EPA says its a compact not a sub-compact, but Nissan is marketing it as a B-class car cause this is America land of the oversized and waste (generally). So obviously Nissan is going to have the most powerful and biggest car in the B-segment for the U.S., duh Nissan its a C-class car. Its like marketing the Camry as a Corolla sized car or segment. The Versa doesn't get that great of mileage, but I digress.

or for enthusiasts who wants to customize it their own ways. Great base for a track-day car
Yeah, buying a car with no balls, Yaris, and handles like a woman on 5 inch stilettos will make a "track" car. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

It's not like the Fit didn't cut corners like.. where the hell is the plastic dead pedal lol. But the Fit is ridiculously flexible for the size of the car and it's damn spacious.

I do agree with the cheaper plastic used on the Yaris, in particular the lids for the gloveboxes, but it is a Yaris. If I wanted better plastics, I'd get a Corolla. Plus, you tell me what you got in a Tercel for the same price.

It's not like the Fit didn't cut corners like.. where the hell is the plastic dead pedal lol. But the Fit is ridiculously flexible for the size of the car and it's damn spacious.

I do agree with the cheaper plastic used on the Yaris, in particular the lids for the gloveboxes, but it is a Yaris. If I wanted better plastics, I'd get a Corolla. Plus, you tell me what you got in a Tercel for the same price.

HAHAHA,

Tidland I thought you were talking about the Corvette with its cheap interior. But hey, its only a 40 grand car.:lol:

I'm amazed that they don't bash on the Chevy Aveo, which is a Daewoo in Korea. :ugh3: I'm pretty sure the Yaris and the Aveo have similar materials and price.

I stumbled upon a brand new Yaris S sedan in my school's parking lot, and i thot it looked quite good, and it wasn't as small as i had thought it would be. The seats look terribly plain/unsupportive, but the rest of the stuff looked pretty good for a car of that price.

I see some people here saying that ABS and side airbags should be a standard. Some people don't want ABS and/or airbags, at least they have a choice.

The statement about other cars of the same class giving more bang for the buck is too subjective to even be debated. You can compare car classes, but would i buy a FIT if i were looking for a sedan? Or perhaps they were comparing the coupe hatch yaris to the 5 door fit and versa...which is a bit skewed too.

EIther way the cheapest vehicle offered by any manufacturer will definately have flaws and things left out. A few years down the road, even these cheap cars will have many standard safety and accident prevention devices, but until then i'd definately appreciate the choice to buy a car that lacks some safety features that i have found to be problematic. By problematic i mean, system failures/malfunctions as well as activating when not needed possibly CAUSING an accident instead of preventing it (i use electronic brake assist as an example).

I see some people here saying that ABS and side airbags should be a standard. Some people don't want ABS and/or airbags, at least they have a choice.


I don't want to wear my seatbelt, but its a safety issue... ABS and Airbags FTW... err, I mean for the safety.

I stumbled upon a brand new Yaris S sedan in my school's parking lot, and i thot it looked quite good, and it wasn't as small as i had thought it would be. The seats look terribly plain/unsupportive, but the rest of the stuff looked pretty good for a car of that price.

I see some people here saying that ABS and side airbags should be a standard. Some people don't want ABS and/or airbags, at least they have a choice.

The statement about other cars of the same class giving more bang for the buck is too subjective to even be debated. You can compare car classes, but would i buy a FIT if i were looking for a sedan? Or perhaps they were comparing the coupe hatch yaris to the 5 door fit and versa...which is a bit skewed too.

EIther way the cheapest vehicle offered by any manufacturer will definately have flaws and things left out. A few years down the road, even these cheap cars will have many standard safety and accident prevention devices, but until then i'd definately appreciate the choice to buy a car that lacks some safety features that i have found to be problematic. By problematic i mean, system failures/malfunctions as well as activating when not needed possibly CAUSING an accident instead of preventing it (i use electronic brake assist as an example).
Yeah.. back then the only option you got was automatic and A/C. If you moved up to the higher trim level, you got <gasp> remote trunk release, manual remote control mirrors, a radio with a clock (and 2 speakers if it didn't have any), remote fuel filler door release, power steering and wheel covers. No power windows, door locks, mirrors, CD player, ABS, none of that.

Remember when a Corolla SD didn't come with a radio? It came with a "radio prep kit" which meant antenna and 2 speakers lol.

I had a Yaris loaner-car a few months back. It was the fully-loaded version, and the paperwork in the glove-box showed that Toyota-Rent-A-Car paid $17,500 for the car, even after their fleet discount. That price is entirely too high for an underpowered car (this was equipped with an automatic transmission) that has zero lumbar support in the seats making it uncomfortable for long commutes, no power seat controls, no navigation system, a poor sounding stereo, fabric seats, lots of hard plastic on the dash and doors, etc. My current rental car is a mid-level equipped Hyundai Elantra, which has a slightly lower sticker price than the Yaris, and it is way better in terms of power, features, and interior quality. The Yaris would be fine if it was priced $5K less; as it is, people expect more, and will perceive the car as unsatisfactory or overpriced.

Engineer


If I posted every positive newspaper review about a toyota car, this board would crash.

GM Apologist.

Fan

There's no excuse: side airbags and ABS should be standard.

Pointless and Pointless... This is Toyotas cheapest car, which means, it doesnt need that extra useless CRAP... When the STI Came without a Stereo or any junk bells and whistles nobody complained, but because a sub-compact car, thats SUPPOSED to be SLOW and SUPPOSED to be CHEAP... is actually that, people bitch. Oh well I guess, all in all when Trolls decide to post all these anti-toyota threads I like to remind them. Toyota will be the biggest, so HA, go drive your american car, dont take turns, avoid technology, and pay too much for crap, have a good time!

Plus, id just end up disabling Airbags carwide if it came with it. Ive heard of more people getting injured because of them than them helping, id rather not be driving 10mph and have an airbag go off in my fking face.

There's no excuse: side airbags and ABS should be standard.
No thanks. I don't even want the driver-side airbag in front of me, since au contraire to most American drivers, I wear my seatbelts and I'm properly seated so the steering wheel isn't 2 inches from my face. The ABS is about as useful as a vibrating dildo for a monk's foot. People should really learn how to be in control of their own vehicles, learn what it can and cannot do, rather than relying on these active safety technologies which are merely a bandaid solution to their bad driving and lack of common sense. If one couldn't be bothered to learn how to drive properly, one shouldn't be allowed to drive, or take the public transit.
Unfortunately, the law now dictates what's safe for us, and that doesn't include the drivers themselves.

Pointless and Pointless... This is Toyotas cheapest car, which means, it doesnt need that extra useless CRAP... When the STI Came without a Stereo or any junk bells and whistles nobody complained, but because a sub-compact car, thats SUPPOSED to be SLOW and SUPPOSED to be CHEAP... is actually that, people bitch. Oh well I guess, all in all when Trolls decide to post all these anti-toyota threads I like to remind them. Toyota will be the biggest, so HA, go drive your american car, dont take turns, avoid technology, and pay too much for crap, have a good time!

Plus, id just end up disabling Airbags carwide if it came with it. Ive heard of more people getting injured because of them than them helping, id rather not be driving 10mph and have an airbag go off in my fking face.
Good point :thumbup: Seems like any car with a Toyota badge on it is now being picked on.

yep totally agree. with echo

i dragged my parents out one morning to an empty parking lot to test the limits of their cars. they thot i was mad to do so, but they were glad i did it after they had learned what their cars had and had not been capable of.

even with new safety features such as the STAR saftey features on toyota SUV's, drivers still need to know what they can do and what happens when they do activate and how to work with them.

"dont blame the game, blame the player".

Agreed. Driver's Ed needs to include more of these. It's not to show off the capabilities of the car (although Young Drivers of Canada does have a Mustang in its fleet), it's about knowing your limits and how to handle the situation if it arises. Also SUVs/pickups will react differently than your Integra or Mustang. People have to realise that.

Going along with what some of you guys said, it seems there is soo many "nannies" that help us become lazy, or stupid. I think a lot of people and myself included can fall into this, if we drive a car with all these gadgets on board we feel oh I can drive stupid and I will be "safe" and we feel invincible, so I'm wondering if its a snow ball effect. If we hear about this and that accident then legislation puts certain things into law, its just one more gadget. I'm NOT knocking these totally, and yes they are legit, their meant to be aids to help not take place. I digress.

Going along with what some of you guys said, it seems there is soo many "nannies" that help us become lazy, or stupid. I think a lot of people and myself included can fall into this, if we drive a car with all these gadgets on board we feel oh I can drive stupid and I will be "safe" and we feel invincible, so I'm wondering if its a snow ball effect. If we hear about this and that accident then legislation puts certain things into law, its just one more gadget. I'm NOT knocking these totally, and yes they are legit, their meant to be aids to help not take place. I digress.
Yeah I see your point. It's the "if I do sth stupid, the car will correct me"

Obviously Physics 101 (or high school physics for that matter) wasn't part of their course in life.

A lot of people often overlook the fact that they are "assists"

Take for example the Lexus parking ASSIST. Everyone goes "oh it's too slow", "I can park faster", "It takes too long to setup". What part of ASSIST don't they understand. It's not meant to take over your parking duties. It's meant to assist you in situations where you think you might not be able to fit.

In those situations, I'm sure the time spent to set it up is faster than you backing and out and retrying to park the LS.

Same with traction control and stability control . THey're ASSISTS to help you if you need to. They're not meant to take over your driving.

^ the owners manual states something to that accord of the safety systems being an assist. but then again...who read's owner's manuals?! lol

Yeah I see your point. It's the "if I do sth stupid, the car will correct me"

Obviously Physics 101 (or high school physics for that matter) wasn't part of their course in life.

A lot of people often overlook the fact that they are "assists"

Take for example the Lexus parking ASSIST. Everyone goes "oh it's too slow", "I can park faster", "It takes too long to setup". What part of ASSIST don't they understand. It's not meant to take over your parking duties. It's meant to assist you in situations where you think you might not be able to fit.

In those situations, I'm sure the time spent to set it up is faster than you backing and out and retrying to park the LS.

Same with traction control and stability control . THey're ASSISTS to help you if you need to. They're not meant to take over your driving.

If you need "assist" to fricking park a car, you shouldn't have a license in the first place. Many people are just too darn stupid and lazy.

If you need "assist" to fricking park a car, you shouldn't have a license in the first place. Many people are just too darn stupid and lazy.


Now that's one thing I agree with you. Although I think Lexus just wanted bragging rights to the first one, obviously this is only the begining and the technology is new so at first its probably not that amazing, I mean it is, but...you know what I mean? It does come in handy for tight spots, cause the new LS is huge especially the LS460L (the long version).:thumbup:

I can't really comment on a yaris. Haven't driven one or sat in one either. But even if i was going to defend the car, i surely wouldn't add " go drive your american junk" after that. It seems rather childish and narrow minded to say that. Even if your entire thread was composed of great points, that last part completely ruins it. maybe it's just me, but i stopped looking at brands as belonging to certain nations and i look at them more as corporate enteties that will screw pretty much anyone over if it comes to that.

I can't really comment on a yaris. Haven't driven one or sat in one either. But even if i was going to defend the car, i surely wouldn't add " go drive your american junk" after that. Can you specify who said that? Otherwise you're bordering on generalizing all the posters of this thread, and that'd be worse than saying "american junk" or whatever. Not trying to be rude but, there has been lots of pointless "accusations" being thrown around in TN lately by a few individuals, and I agree what you're saying but just be a little more specific. :)

If you need "assist" to fricking park a car, you shouldn't have a license in the first place. Many people are just too darn stupid and lazy.
Yup. People like that should take the freaking bus.

If you need "assist" to fricking park a car, you shouldn't have a license in the first place. Many people are just too darn stupid and lazy.
to add to your comment.

Anyone who has parking sensors on a MINI should not be driving. If you can't park a MINI, I'm a little doubtful about your other driving skills.

Here is just one from this thread alone.

Toyota will be the biggest, so HA, go drive your american car, dont take turns, avoid technology, and pay too much for crap, have a good time!

While it doesn't use the word junk, the implication is there. I am sure if i search for other threads i will find them as well. Once again, we have fanboys on every forum and they all piss me off. There are fanboys on GMI, motor trend as well. BTW, the biggest fanboy pain in the butt i have ever seen resides on the motortrend forums. Because of him alone i can't every see myself posting at that place.

I don't post a lot on TN, but i do read pretty much all the threads so i read all kinds of stuff. I can also tell when someone posts to instigate stuff.

Here is just one from this thread alone.



While it doesn't use the word junk, the implication is there. I am sure if i search for other threads i will find them as well. Once again, we have fanboys on every forum and they all piss me off. There are fanboys on GMI, motor trend as well. BTW, the biggest fanboy pain in the butt i have ever seen resides on the motortrend forums. Because of him alone i can't every see myself posting at that place.

I don't post a lot on TN, but i do read pretty much all the threads so i read all kinds of stuff. I can also tell when someone posts to instigate stuff.
Thanks for being specific :thumbup:

I understand and agree with how you feel. You can't avoid such things though, so just try not to be bothered by it. I just find it funny that it is treated as a "crime" of some sort if someone is a Toyota fanboy in a Toyota forum. I mean, it's deemed rude if it's a Toyota fanboy in another forum of a different brand preaching or being a troll or what not. How else can a Toyota fanboy express his/her appreciation for the brand that he/she loves? I don't suppose you'd suggest they go to GMI for example to express their love for Toyota, would you?

As long as there're different brands, there will be competition between the respective fanboys, healthy or pure instigation. I think that if you read something you don't like (which is very easy to find here :D ), just either ignore it or voice your own opinion without bias. The key is to not follow the hurd, or lead by example :)

Yaris is a great vehicle.....if that's what you're looking for. No it's not fully loaded and it's not a rocketship but for 13,800 (in Canada to start) for a hatchback that'll do 300,000ks without a hitch it's pretty good. (and contrary to some opinions the seats are great for me for long hauls for this 6'2 guy.)

As for the airbags issue: Side curtains shoud be required in every vehicle. It's the front one's that should be optional. If you get hit from the side you'll be glad you had them. If you wear your seatbelt the front ones don't change injury statistics that much.

For the price of a decently equiped Yaris, you can get a Corolla with the bare essentials, auto tranny, power windows & locks.

Corolla > Yaris

Pointless and Pointless... This is Toyotas cheapest car, which means, it doesnt need that extra useless CRAP... When the STI Came without a Stereo or any junk bells and whistles nobody complained, but because a sub-compact car, thats SUPPOSED to be SLOW and SUPPOSED to be CHEAP... is actually that, people bitch. Oh well I guess, all in all when Trolls decide to post all these anti-toyota threads I like to remind them. Toyota will be the biggest, so HA, go drive your american car, dont take turns, avoid technology, and pay too much for crap, have a good time!

Plus, id just end up disabling Airbags carwide if it came with it. Ive heard of more people getting injured because of them than them helping, id rather not be driving 10mph and have an airbag go off in my fking face.

Your post was even more pointless.

First, airbags are programmed to inflate over an above speed limit and that is generally 30MPH, not 10MPH. Side airbags do not inflate in your face.

Second, these Toyotabots who post on TN need to understand that news is news. There is good news and bad news. Both types are going to be posted and all of it should be read, dissected and understood. That's how a company understands its position in the world and betters itself. Imagine if a company only paid attention to good news, good reviews, positive critiques...it wouldn't be around long.

Third, Toyota may be the biggest but is it really worth it? Toyota recalled more cars in the U.S. last year than it sold. It's reputation has taken a hit.

Fourth, the Yaris is supposed to be a cheap car but have you ever priced one? It can get expensive for an "cheap" economy car pretty fast and without as many features as competing models.

Let's take a look at those competing models, shall we? From the manufacturer's websites:

Aveo: ABS optional, side airbags standard
Accent: ABS optional, side airbags standard
Fit: ABS and side airbags standard
Rio: ABS optional, side airbags standard
xA: ABS standard, side airbags optional
(the wasteful) Versa: ABS optional, side airbags standard
Aerio: ABS and side airbags standard

To everyone else: I can understand not wanting ABS but you're going to want side airbags, especially in these cars.

Your post was even more pointless.

First, airbags are programmed to inflate over an above speed limit and that is generally 30MPH, not 10MPH. Side airbags do not inflate in your face.

Second, these Toyotabots who post on TN need to understand that news is news. There is good news and bad news. Both types are going to be posted and all of it should be read, dissected and understood. That's how a company understands its position in the world and betters itself. Imagine if a company only paid attention to good news, good reviews, positive critiques...it wouldn't be around long.

Third, Toyota may be the biggest but is it really worth it? Toyota recalled more cars in the U.S. last year than it sold. It's reputation has taken a hit.

Fourth, the Yaris is supposed to be a cheap car but have you ever priced one? It can get expensive for an "cheap" economy car pretty fast and without as many features as competing models.

Let's take a look at those competing models, shall we? From the manufacturer's websites:

Aveo: ABS optional, side airbags standard
Accent: ABS optional, side airbags standard
Fit: ABS and side airbags standard
Rio: ABS optional, side airbags standard
xA: ABS standard, side airbags optional
(the wasteful) Versa: ABS optional, side airbags standard
Aerio: ABS and side airbags standard

To everyone else: I can understand not wanting ABS but you're going to want side airbags, especially in these cars.

Only an idiot, or someone thinks they're a "high performance" driver would not want ABS.

True that the Yaris adds up. I priced one from Toyota.com:
4dr sedan with option c: pwr windows locks mirrors, am/fm/cd radio, cruise control, rear defroster, auto tranny and it added up to: $15,804

Corolla CE, auto tranny, option b: power windows locks, am/fm/cd radio, rear defroster and it added up to: $16,313.

The Corolla is only $509 more. Toyota also rates the Yaris 40mpg hwy and the Corolla 41mpg hwy.

Hmm.... larger car, more power, better fuel efficiency... it's a no brainer.

A loaded 5-dr Yaris RS cost more than a CE Special Edition (with moonroof, A/C and alloys). Granted, it lacks the reclining rear seats, CD Changer, foglights, leather wrapped steering wheel and shifter, and rear spoiler. Depends on your priorities I suppose. The Yaris sedan is larger than the Corolla (at least that's how I feel).

This overlap might be dealt with when the new Corolla comes out. However, I fear that might mean a price hike.

Some posts in this thread are just pure comedy. Guess everything's factual when the hound barks loud and long enough.

track day or trail day.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v373/Deathrunner/Deatharis.jpg

Your post was even more pointless.

First, airbags are programmed to inflate over an above speed limit and that is generally 30MPH, not 10MPH. Side airbags do not inflate in your face.

Second, these Toyotabots who post on TN need to understand that news is news. There is good news and bad news. Both types are going to be posted and all of it should be read, dissected and understood. That's how a company understands its position in the world and betters itself. Imagine if a company only paid attention to good news, good reviews, positive critiques...it wouldn't be around long.

Third, Toyota may be the biggest but is it really worth it? Toyota recalled more cars in the U.S. last year than it sold. It's reputation has taken a hit.

Fourth, the Yaris is supposed to be a cheap car but have you ever priced one? It can get expensive for an "cheap" economy car pretty fast and without as many features as competing models.

Let's take a look at those competing models, shall we? From the manufacturer's websites:

Aveo: ABS optional, side airbags standard
Accent: ABS optional, side airbags standard
Fit: ABS and side airbags standard
Rio: ABS optional, side airbags standard
xA: ABS standard, side airbags optional
(the wasteful) Versa: ABS optional, side airbags standard
Aerio: ABS and side airbags standard

To everyone else: I can understand not wanting ABS but you're going to want side airbags, especially in these cars.

Yeah, okay, cept that that is 30mph head on into a completely flat surface, you cant hit other things and there are other ways it can be triggered


Also, to the fanboy comments... I am DEFINATELY not a fan boy, in fact Toyota right now doesnt have a single car i would enjoy in the slightest to drive on a daily basis, its not my style. in fact they havent since the 80's - mid 90's... I am just defending a company that is doing all the right things to become the biggest.

And about me bashing american cars... Americans are still building cars that dont match the quality of Japanese or european vehicles. Nor are they nearly as efficient as them. For gods sake, how long has the ford mustang not had independant rear suspension??? Even thier BEST model, the GT500, doesnt have it!!! They skimped out on building an amazing car, and possibly the most competitive Mustang of all time... but then they got lazy. GM is the only company getting it right and of course what do they do?? They whore out thier emblem on so many vehicles, call them different cars, in fact, they make ugly random new bodys for thier cars for the soul purpose of whoring thier brand name... thats thier marketing strategy... pretty sad if you ask me. At least the Vette is still running strong. And then theres Chrysler, which doesnt even need explaination.

Also, to the fanboy comments... I am DEFINATELY not a fan boy, in fact Toyota right now doesnt have a single car i would enjoy in the slightest to drive on a daily basis, its not my style. in fact they havent since the 80's - mid 90's... I am just defending a company that is doing all the right things to become the biggest.
I concur :thumbup: It's safe to say though something wicked is/are in the works. Guess the fans should be patient.


And about me bashing american cars... Americans are still building cars that dont match the quality of Japanese or european vehicles. Nor are they nearly as efficient as them. For gods sake, how long has the ford mustang not had independant rear suspension??? Even thier BEST model, the GT500, doesnt have it!!! They skimped out on building an amazing car, and possibly the most competitive Mustang of all time... but then they got lazy. GM is the only company getting it right and of course what do they do?? They whore out thier emblem on so many vehicles, call them different cars, in fact, they make ugly random new bodys for thier cars for the soul purpose of whoring thier brand name... thats thier marketing strategy... pretty sad if you ask me. At least the Vette is still running strong. And then theres Chrysler, which doesnt even need explaination.
Very good comment overall. Some will counter that the Mustang doesn't need any fancy suspension, but the experts will disagree especially when you want to fully utilize 500hp onto the road. The Roush Mustang has a bit less power than the GT500 but sports proper suspension, and the handling and drivability of the car is transformed. The whoring of emblems on multiple GM lineups is sad but true, surely even the domestic fans won't disagree completely.

Yep.. Can't remember if it was Top Gear or Fifth Gear who tested the Roush Mustang. They preferred that over the GT500 IIRC.

All I know is I drove a very similar car to the Yaris for 5 years (Echo) and 225,000 Km without any major problems and none that were not fixed for free IE .. no labor charge, no parts charge (engine light came on and Toyota changed the injector for nothing).

Note I boughtt the 2000 Echo in the fall of 1999 which was before the new Corolla design and at the time the echo actually had more interior space.

The Echo was quicker that the low end model Honda of the day, handled better had more storage and got better gas mileage with more reliability..

It was quicker than the low end model ford of the time had more storage and handled better and got better gas mileage with more reliability.

It was quicker than the low end model chev at the time had more storage and handled better and got better gas mileage with more reliability.

It was quicker than the low end model dodge at the time had more storage and handled better and got better gas mileage with more reliability.

it was quicker form 0-100 km/h than the base model BMW at the time and was 1/2 the cost and got better gas mileage with more reliability.
etc etc.

The Yaris is an <b> old </b> design based off the Echo and if after six years Honda finally catches up with the Fit who cares. I'm sure Toyota will have more offerings very soon.

^^^ Agree. But you should just save your breath since they'll simply say it's just your opinion so it doesn't count, or you're a Toyota fanboy so it's biased, or you should try out the competitors (especially the ones of the domestic brands) before making biased assumptions, or........well, you get the point ;)

^^^ Agree. But you should just save your breath since they'll simply say it's just your opinion so it doesn't count, or you're a Toyota fanboy so it's biased, or you should try out the competitors (especially the ones of the domestic brands) before making biased assumptions, or........well, you get the point ;)


hehe I did try them all when I bought the Echo... and I tried the *whole* Toyota lineup, Half the GM lineup, all the Honda lineup, three Mazdas, four fords, two Volkswagens, three Dodge/Chryslers, one Suzuki, one Beamer, and one Hyundai in 2005 when I bought the Legacy.

I'm a very thorough guy ;)

hehe I did try them all when I bought the Echo... and I tried the *whole* Toyota lineup, Half the GM lineup, all the Honda lineup, three Mazdas, four fords, two Volkswagens, three Dodge/Chryslers, one Suzuki, one Beamer, and one Hyundai in 2005 when I bought the Legacy.

I'm a very thorough guy ;)
Yes, and overall a smart consumer :thumbup:

Thanks ...
In some cases (Toyota, GM, Ford) my wife and I had to visit different dealerships, the sales guys were getting tired of showing us around lol

Oh I should mention, when we took a hyundai for a test drive one of the frost plugs half blew out of the block after about 500 feet of exiting the parking lot. Turned around and drove back and the thing was steaming like crazy cuz the antifreeze was spraying onto the exhaust header.
good build quality there .. not.

And about me bashing american cars... Americans are still building cars that dont match the quality of Japanese or european vehicles. Nor are they nearly as efficient as them. For gods sake, how long has the ford mustang not had independant rear suspension??? Even thier BEST model, the GT500, doesnt have it!!! They skimped out on building an amazing car, and possibly the most competitive Mustang of all time... but then they got lazy.
IRS adds weight and cost. Ford asked its Mustang owners whether they wanted IRS on the new ones and it was a resounding NO...because most Mustangs are taken to the drag strip 1/4 mile. The reason the Fox Body is still so popular for the drag strip is because it was so lightweight. Ford was doing their best to keep the cost down and adding IRS that the owners didn't want while also making the Mustang more expensive would have been a dumb move. Ford wouldn't have been able to get a new GT out the door for $25k if it had IRS equipped.

So yes, Ford is stupid for listening to the owners. :rolleyes:

^^^ Yes, cost issue was definitely the main concern. It made sense to keep the live-axle for the regular Mustang, but it was simply ridiculous to keep the suspension on a special edition with 500hp like the Shelby GT500.

Is the GT500KR also live-axle? For Christ-sake it has 50 more horsepower!!

So yes, Ford is stupid for listening to the owners

Especially the stupid ones.

Glad to see you are coming around. :lol:

I really don't understand why people think the comparison is valid.

The only Toyota vehicles that compete with the Honda Fit are the Scion xA (xD) and the xB; Soon the xB will have 50% more horsepower and bigger, for the same price. It will also have VSC, side impact and curtain airbags standard. And the xD will have 33% more horsepower with the same safety features standard.

The Yaris competes with Kia Rio, Hyundai Accent and Chevy Aveo. It's BASIC transportation. That's all.

I really don't understand why people think the comparison is valid.

The only Toyota vehicles that compete with the Honda Fit are the Scion xA (xD) and the xB; Soon the xB will have 50% more horsepower and bigger, for the same price. It will also have VSC, side impact and curtain airbags standard. And the xD will have 33% more horsepower with the same safety features standard.

The Yaris competes with Kia Rio, Hyundai Accent and Chevy Aveo. It's BASIC transportation. That's all.
i think it's a valid comparison. They're the same size and price (at least in Canada). Sure the Yaris starts lower but it doesn't have side/side curtains even as options. Besides, we don't get Scion so it's a fair comparison up here.

IRS adds weight and cost. Ford asked its Mustang owners whether they wanted IRS on the new ones and it was a resounding NO...because most Mustangs are taken to the drag strip 1/4 mile. The reason the Fox Body is still so popular for the drag strip is because it was so lightweight. Ford was doing their best to keep the cost down and adding IRS that the owners didn't want while also making the Mustang more expensive would have been a dumb move. Ford wouldn't have been able to get a new GT out the door for $25k if it had IRS equipped.

So yes, Ford is stupid for listening to the owners. :rolleyes:

Watching a mustang on a road course or auto-x course is possibly the most retarded sight ive ever seen, The mustang is titled a GT Car... Grand Touring...

The FIA defines a GT car as "an open or closed automobile which has no more than one door on each side and a minimum of two seats situated one on each side of the longitudinal centre line of the car; these two seats must be crossed by the same transversal plane. This car must be able to be used perfectly legally on the open road, and adapted for racing on circuits or closed courses."

Well lets hope a mustang doesnt try and get on any kind of circuit, cause its a horrible excuse for a circuit vehicle...

There's no excuse: side airbags and ABS should be standard.

I agree with the brakes but there is very little evidence that airbags actually make you safer. Well they do but the increase in safety from them statistically is like less then 1% according to a study I read a year ago. I'd rather save my money and not have them at all.

look how well the beetle did when it first came out decades ago - because it was a VERY cheap and cute car. why doesnt toyota do something like that now? have a very bare bones model manual windows and door locks, no ABS or airbags, no tach or anything else aside from the bare essentials. imagine if there was a brand new toyota that was simple enough for most people to work on themselves, got great fuel mileago and sold brand new for $6500. heck, i would buy that as my commuter car.

look how well the beetle did when it first came out decades ago - because it was a VERY cheap and cute car. why doesnt toyota do something like that now? have a very bare bones model manual windows and door locks, no ABS or airbags, no tach or anything else aside from the bare essentials. imagine if there was a brand new toyota that was simple enough for most people to work on themselves, got great fuel mileago and sold brand new for $6500. heck, i would buy that as my commuter car.
and look good? Sounds like you want the Endo concept car to be a production hehe.


At least driver's airbag. Passenger optional haha. Seriously though, I've noticed manufacturer's are skimping on the side impact protection before they assume the side airbags will cushion (no pun intended) their ratings.

Ever looked at cars that have opt. side airbags? The trim level without it always does horribly while the one with side airbags does really well.

Yet, we've survived (no pun intended again) for a while without side airbags (or side impact bars in the doors for that matter). I'm not saying I'm against side airbags or safety. I'm saying manufacturers need to beef up their side impact protection WITHOUT relying on side airbags to boost their safety ratings up.

It's not that hard to put stronger beams in the door (helps if it's a 2dr since there's less cost b/c of.. well 2 drs instead of 4). It'll make the door a bit heavier but that'll add to the perception that it's not a cheap car when you close the door.

I'm amazed that they don't bash on the Chevy Aveo, which is a Daewoo in Korea. :ugh3: I'm pretty sure the Yaris and the Aveo have similar materials and price.
I was just thinking the same thing. No doubt Detroit News praised the Aveo.
I offer exhibit A: http://info.detnews.com/autosconsumer/autoreviews/index.cfm?id=24619
The 2007 Chevrolet Aveo LS is comfortable, solidly constructed, and surprisingly eager to please.
the Aveo's most notable visual feature is the big-and-proud Chevy bowtie and dual-port grille, direct from America's heartland by way of the Korean peninsula.
:rolleyes:
Another article from the L.A. times, but Det News sure loves to praise the domestics (which shouldnt be a surprise considering it is DETROIT news, afterall)

I don't find it that cute... I agree that for those on a budget, this is a good choice.


______________
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