Anti-Toyota Eco-Activists Arrested at NY Auto Show

http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/2588

I'm not on-board with the whole Global Warming paranoia.

Someone should tell these guys that first of all, the issue isn't with making cars cleaner, just more fuel-efficient. Even the worst polluters today are something like 30x cleaner than the best vehicles of 30-40 years ago.

What they should be doing is going over to China and India, where corporations are loosely governed, or not governed at all, by laws which protect the environment. If there are real culprits in "Global Warming", you would find them there.

They must be from ford.

Considering ford has hybrids also and they have the same trucks. So that means these people must be from ford to only attack toyota.

^Yeah, remembering that video where ford sent someone over to "Jump On" the new Tundra.

They must be from ford.

Considering ford has hybrids also and they have the same trucks. So that means these people must be from ford to only attack toyota.

Oh please! That is funny! :lol:

http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/2588

I'm not on-board with the whole Global Warming paranoia.

Someone should tell these guys that first of all, the issue isn't with making cars cleaner, just more fuel-efficient. Even the worst polluters today are something like 30x cleaner than the best vehicles of 30-40 years ago.

What they should be doing is going over to China and India, where corporations are loosely governed, or not governed at all, by laws which protect the environment. If there are real culprits in "Global Warming", you would find them there.
The problem also is that we've tripled in population from 30-40 years ago. So while are our cars are cleaner, we're still polluting as much, if not more than before.

There's this saying that in the 1800s with all the factories in Manchester belching out smoke and carbon from their chimneys that would be just unthinkable today, it was actually "sustainable" for them to pump out that amount of pollution into the air simply because there were many factories and that they could pollute and not cause too much problem.

Now, we have many many times more factories so we really do have to cut down significantly on the amount each factory is polluting to keep the total amount of pollution going into the atmosphere the same as before (or hopefully, even less!)

http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/2588

I'm not on-board with the whole Global Warming paranoia.

Someone should tell these guys that first of all, the issue isn't with making cars cleaner, just more fuel-efficient. Even the worst polluters today are something like 30x cleaner than the best vehicles of 30-40 years ago.

What they should be doing is going over to China and India, where corporations are loosely governed, or not governed at all, by laws which protect the environment. If there are real culprits in "Global Warming", you would find them there.

How about stop talking about other people and start worrying about our selves. Canada and the US is probably in the tops in terms of worse polluters and if every ones attitude is like yours, nothing will get done. Also, many of the factories in like China and India is all from US based companies so why not start talking about our selves first.

How about stop talking about other people and start worrying about our selves. Canada and the US is probably in the tops in terms of worse polluters and if every ones attitude is like yours, nothing will get done. Also, many of the factories in like China and India is all from US based companies so why not start talking about our selves first.

While a true statement, AP needs to be focused on as it is the centre for industrial and population growth. Fossil fuel consumption and emissions are presently low per capita in AP but growing at unparalleled rates. Output in North America could cut-in half and that will do only nominal improvements in comparison to global impacts based on growth in AP.

I wonder how much pollution and waste were created to make that giant banner.

How about stop talking about other people and start worrying about our selves. Canada and the US is probably in the tops in terms of worse polluters and if every ones attitude is like yours, nothing will get done. Also, many of the factories in like China and India is all from US based companies so why not start talking about our selves first.

I'm sorry, but I do not subscribe to the "America is the world's #1 evil" philosophy. :disappoin Guess that's why I never made a good Lib. ;)

I think we are worried about ourselves....where do you think all the outcry and politicizing about global warming is coming from anyway?

I have spoken to people who get sent to places like India and China to do engineering work. They say you would be absolutely horrified with their industrial practices. No such thing as the EPA in China. And their population dwarfs ours. Think about it.

what losers.....wonder how much they paid them to do that.....GM or Ford...

I wonder how much pollution and waste were created to make that giant banner.

I do not get your point

Then so be it :rolleyes:

what losers.....wonder how much they paid them to do that.....GM or Ford...
Well, let's not make accusations just yet. Otherwise the domestic fanboys will accuse you of not having any proof and being a Toyota fanboy in a Toyota forum :lol:

Arrested in NY?

I thought Engineer was from California?

^^^ :lol:

They must be from ford.

Considering ford has hybrids also and they have the same trucks. So that means these people must be from ford to only attack toyota.
Ford uses Toyota's HSD so...

no they don't lol.

Isn't the Tundra the most fuel efficient in its class anyways? Why don't they go protest against the Big Three also?

Isn't the Tundra the most fuel efficient in its class anyways?

No....at least not according to the EPA.

Why don't they go protest against the Big Three also?

Probably to call attention to the fact that not all Toyotas shoot trees out of their exhaust pipes. Maybe because they will soon be the world's #1 automaker (enjoy having the target on your back. ;) ) But I agree with you, they could have just as easily picked on any other pickup, which is why this is so assinine in the first place.

Why don't they go protest against the Big Three also?

Are you serious? The greenies have been on Bill Ford's case like Rosie O'Donnell on a HoHo. Maybe with Toyota off their faves list now we can get Toyota into this debate on the side of reason. How many brands are left that these guys actually like now? Honda and Subaru?

How about stop talking about other people and start worrying about our selves. Canada and the US is probably in the tops in terms of worse polluters and if every ones attitude is like yours, nothing will get done. Also, many of the factories in like China and India is all from US based companies so why not start talking about our selves first.
Wow, this is way off base. In a previous job I visited company owned facilties around the world, including factories in Mexico and China. This company also had factories in the US and other first world countries, but producing some simpler products in second and third world nations proved adavantageous from a cost perspective. Wanna guess why? By far most people think the primary reason is lower wages but in reality it is often because there are virtually no restrictions on what you can or cannot do with any resulting pollution.
The facility I was at in Mexico had a 'holding pool' surrounded by a chain link fence because actually touching the waste water in that pool would cause you serious physical harm. (it could easily kill you) There were no measures taken to prevent against ground-water contamination and only minimal measures taken to safeguard against any potential contamination scenarios. China was even worse than Mexico.

Why is this important? Because the data we have on 'who pollutes and to what degree' is obtained primarily from the governments of these countries. In all sincerity we effectively ask these governments and the companies within those countries 'how much did you pollute'? Do you really expect anything resembling an accurate answer? Don't misunderstand, there are bodies in place to make sure these things are accurate. unfortunately they have virtually no authority and are about as effective as a UN arms inspector. In other words you'd be better off just to guess...seriously. And to be blunt, America gets grilled because we actually admit to how much waste we produce.

This is a ridiculous system and to base any actions on this information is pointless.

btw, the company I was working for at that time was not an American based company.

Someone should tell these guys that first of all, the issue isn't with making cars cleaner, just more fuel-efficient. Even the worst polluters today are something like 30x cleaner than the best vehicles of 30-40 years ago.


Actually your completely wrong. My 1986 Corolla GT-S may be out done by newer Japanese models in the same class of car but not by that much and scores as good as or better then some American cars in the same class... Technology has not really changed all that much in the last 20 years as far as engines go.

Isn't the Tundra the most fuel efficient in its class anyways? Why don't they go protest against the Big Three also?

Why not the big 3 you ask? It's because Hybrids are a sham. Because of how they are made or rather more specifically how the battery is made. The metal comes from here in Canada and is shipped from nation to nation across the planet then when the car is made it has a 100,000km life span... It is actually more ecologically friendly to buy a Hummer and drive it 300,000km. Not to mention the savings in gas are actually put off by the price of the car. Your better off buying a Yaris.

Why not the big 3 you ask? It's because Hybrids are a sham. Because of how they are made or rather more specifically how the battery is made. The metal comes from here in Canada and is shipped from nation to nation across the planet then when the car is made it has a 100,000km life span... It is actually more ecologically friendly to buy a Hummer and drive it 300,000km. Not to mention the savings in gas are actually put off by the price of the car. Your better off buying a Yaris.

Really? Do you have any data here or are you just talking out your ass? Last I read, Toyota has yet to have a hybrid battery wear out, and their hybrids have been out since 1996...

C

Actually your completely wrong. My 1986 Corolla GT-S may be out done by newer Japanese models in the same class of car but not by that much and scores as good as or better then some American cars in the same class... Technology has not really changed all that much in the last 20 years as far as engines go.

And your '86 Corolla is many times cleaner than the cars of the 60's. I'm not really understanding your point. My point is, once lead got removed from gasoline cars became incredibly cleaner. Today's cars now have more effective, and sometimes multiple, catalytic converters. Engines are indeed cleaner burning than ever before. In fact, many agree the old "leave the car running in a garage" trick doesn't even work very well as a suicide method anymore.

I'm wondering what scoring system you are referring to?

Really? Do you have any data here or are you just talking out your ass? Last I read, Toyota has yet to have a hybrid battery wear out, and their hybrids have been out since 1996...

C

I know he's right about the Ni-MH batteries. The factory where they are produced isn't exactly the most environmentally friendly, to put it lightly. There's only a few sources of these batteries, one of which is in Canada, meaning that the batteries made there DO have to be shipped to any assembly plants.

I disagree about the Hummer part, however. Driving a hummer 300,000miles is not a good thing, no matter what. Unless your in the army. Then its good.

Hybrids are a sham.

100,000km life span...


no

buy a Hummer and drive it 300,000km.

good luck with that

Your better off buying a Yaris.

well, you got part of it right anyways.... thanks for coming out:thumbup:

I'm wondering what scoring system you are referring to?

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/FEG/bymake/bymanuNF.shtml

Really? Do you have any data here or are you just talking out your ass? Last I read, Toyota has yet to have a hybrid battery wear out, and their hybrids have been out since 1996...

I know he's right about the Ni-MH batteries. The factory where they are produced isn't exactly the most environmentally friendly, to put it lightly. There's only a few sources of these batteries, one of which is in Canada, meaning that the batteries made there DO have to be shipped to any assembly plants.

I disagree about the Hummer part, however. Driving a hummer 300,000miles is not a good thing, no matter what. Unless your in the army. Then its good.

no

good luck with that

http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/editorial_item.asp?NewsID=188

Pirus sucks! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Ya, the 100,000km bit looking back is probably off but the numbers would be still accurate up to that point.
Yeah for bean counters!

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/FEG/bymake/bymanuNF.shtml

Well according to that your Corolla produces slightly more greenhouse gasses than a comparable GM Ecotec and quite a bit more (up to .7 tons) than Ford's Focus.

I have also heard about the Prius battery-making factory being quite a mess, but I've also heard that they've cleaned it up somewhat in recent years.

There was more scientific accuracy in all the press releases about Global Warming, and less political posturing, hype, and make-believe fairy dust opinions being spread on Global Warming?

I think it would be.
Then we could look at Greehouse Gasses and know that we don't have diddly to worry about CO2 emissions, and that if the engines were more efficient they would take in O2 and Gas, and produce only CO2 and water vapor... and that would be terrible for the climate if there were anything to worry about.

But, hey, I'm just a research scientist with 30 years experience in environmental causes, so what do I know?

Well, let me tell you what I know. Global temperatures are more subject to change based upon the cyclic radiation patterns of the Sun than any change that mankind has made.

Further, CO2 is the LEAST powerful greenhouse gas. In fact, it is the gas that others are measured against in terms of strength. Water vapor is roughly 17000 times better at absorbing heat and trapping atmospheric energy than CO2 (therefore more water vapor = a bad thing if you believe man is altering the climate). Also, methane gas is 62 times more powerful than CO2, NOx's are 296 times mroe powerful than CO2, and CFC's are about 6000 times more powerful than CO2.

So... all the conversation about Global Warming which focuses on CO2 emissions and the role of industrialization, etc. etc. is a bunch of hog wash. If there were real concerns for the environment, we would have completely banned CFC manufacturing, we'd be harnessing the vast ocean's NOx emissions, and we'd put catalytic convertors on Cows to remove that DEADLY methane menace to future generations.

Sorry you asked, right?

Ford uses Toyota's HSD so...

Ford purchased the rights to the first hybrid system Toyota developed for the first gen Prius in the late 90's. So that Escape Hybrid is equipped with Toyota's old hybrid technology.

Ford purchased the rights to the first hybrid system Toyota developed for the first gen Prius in the late 90's. So that Escape Hybrid is equipped with Toyota's old hybrid technology.

Half right. The system developed for Ford's hybrids was developed as a stand alone unit and isn't truly a copy of anybody's system. However, it is very similar to Toyota's system and could pose a patent infringement if Ford hadn't struck a deal with Toyota. But the notion that Ford copied it is no different than accusing every auto maker who ever employed a dual plane V8 of copying Cadillac, or every auto maker which employs the type of mono-block engine casting so common today of copying Ford. Engineering often leads to similar solutions because the principals these items are based on, and what works and what doesn't, are universal.

And if you are wondering how I know that this wasn't a copy...well, that would be because I know the guy that is primarily responsible for developing Ford's system.

wow there's so much misinformation on this thread it isn't funny.

How many times must I mention FORD DOES NOT USE TOYOTA'S SYSTEM!!! (ya.. I've said it 3 times on 3 separate pages on this damn thread).

And no, we don't magically die at 100,000kms. (or miles for that matter). We have Prius cabs here and they can EASILY do 100,000kms a year. They freaking go for servicing one a month.

And in that case you might as well not use any rechargeable batteries you have at home. They all use NiMH or NiCd. Hell, stop using your 5¢ coins... oh wait, they're not made of real nickel any more hahahaha.

http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/2588

I'm not on-board with the whole Global Warming paranoia.

Someone should tell these guys that first of all, the issue isn't with making cars cleaner, just more fuel-efficient. Even the worst polluters today are something like 30x cleaner than the best vehicles of 30-40 years ago.

What they should be doing is going over to China and India, where corporations are loosely governed, or not governed at all, by laws which protect the environment. If there are real culprits in "Global Warming", you would find them there.


You know that global warming is not a pranoia, Its a fact. A fact most simply proven by the fact that it is snowing 7 inches in april.

and American Industries are the number one greenhouse gas emitters.

and I think the new tundra is pretty stupid, I really want to see more of the little pickup trucks again. But If we are going to keep the big trucks, we need to find another way to power them instead of burning fossil fuel. Or even making them all deisel would save on emissions. Instead, everyone wants gas engines.

We have the technology for zero emissions vehicles, It is readily available. The only reason its not out is because people are still buying SUV's, huge trucks and Hummers like nothing else.