Toyota Outsells GM 2007

:D according to BBC news

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6586679.stm
:clap:

We are No.1 we are No.1 We are No.1:whatwhat: :woot: :banger: :banana:

Didnt that idiot Wagoner claimed GM will remain No.1 for another 73 years ?:rofl:

Note that this article shows Toyota is #1 in the first quarter.

Note that this article shows Toyota is #1 in the first quarter.

Yes we know that. Does anybody really think GM can outsell Toyota in the remaining three quarters. :lol:

We are No.1 we are No.1 We are No.1:whatwhat: :woot: :banger: :banana:

Didnt that idiot Wagoner claimed GM will remain No.1 for another 73 years ?:rofl:

Where did he say that? I seem to remember just the opposite statement

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18286221/


"TOYOTA" LADIES AND "TOYOTA" GENTLEMEN................. THE SEQUENCE HAS BEGUN. :D

Toyota overtakes GM in global vehicle sales

Quarterly data indicate GM will have tough fight to keep top position



http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/ap/b3150473-8314-4fa9-8f09-348faf606a95.hmedium.jpg
TOKYO - Toyota Motor Corp. became the world’s top auto seller in the first three months of the year, passing rival General Motors Corp. for the first time, the Japanese automaker said Tuesday.
Toyota sold 2.348 million vehicles worldwide in the January-March quarter, company official Satoshi Yamaguchi said, surpassing the 2.26 million vehicles that GM said it sold during the same period.
The results mark the first time Toyota has beat GM in global sales on a quarterly basis, he said.

Congrats to 'Yota. I figured it would be sometime this year.

Nice to see.

The battle ground for China should be very interesting in the next 10-15 years.

I love the quote the media includes from Toyota about quality being the only thing that matters.

fan

Nice to see.

The battle ground for China should be very interesting in the next 10-15 years.

fan


Very true. Unfortunately for Toyota, though, the Chinese still have alot of distrust/dislike for the Japanese due to WWII and the atrocities they (Japan) committed. Not trying to be negative here, it is a very real factor as to why Toyota has not had any success in China, and why I think the global sales race (b/t GM and Toyota) will be close for years to come.

Toyota is gaining market-share in the US, but GM is dominating China (which is a huge market in it's infancy). Plus, Japan is pretty much a closed market to the international community. That being said, I don't think GM's current vehicle lineup would appeal to the average Japanese, so that's pretty much a moot point. . . .

Throw all this together along with the Korean car makers (and their ability to make high content cars at a very low price, thus stealing sales from both GM and Toyota), and you have a recipe for an all out battle for the #1 spot for many years, IMHO.

As it is, Toyota is reaping the benefits of it's hard work, so kudo's to them. . . .It's proof that hard work really does pay off. . . .and consumer neglect (by GM) will never be tolerated in a free market. . . .

It was good to see that LaNeve didn't authorize an ultra-crazy incentive blowout just to stay number 1 for a little longer. This is OK and has been expected for a while.



Just remember, when entities get too big (ie Roman Empire, GM, Kirstie Alley) they ALWAYS right-size with time. It will happen with Toyota, as well.

Regardless, good for Toyota, it seems that the organization deserves it.

I

Just remember, when entities get too big (ie Roman Empire, GM, Kirstie Alley) they ALWAYS right-size with time.


:lol: ... kirstie allie... :lol:

Nice one, Toyota :thumbup: :clap: !

Hm. I wonder if they'll make another special edition Camry for just such an occasion :lol:

Very true. Unfortunately for Toyota, though, the Chinese still have alot of distrust/dislike for the Japanese due to WWII and the atrocities they (Japan) committed.

Hmmmm.... I think everybody is aware of that.

What about the Pearl Harbor?

How would you rate the American public's feelings, especially the Americans that are "online" ?

Airport parking lots being rented to accomodate vehicles, GM is mass producing. I'm sure they will have that zero apr back to get rid of 07 inventory and everyone and their mama's will be trading in. KUDOS to Toyota, we have just won one battle, the fight is still one...we need to win many other battles to declare victory. I'm very sure we will loose in the last qtr cus of 07 clerance GM ususally does (thereby retaining their top 1 position for 07). But its just a matter of making one quarter out of the year into 2's and 3's and then you can do it consistanty..and become #1. HURRAY FOR TOYOTA!
:clap:

Note that this article shows Toyota is #1 in the first quarter.

Ok lets skip sales totals all together and go by gross profit :lol: :thankyou:

Hmmmm.... I think everybody is aware of that.

What about the Pearl Harbor?

How would you rate the American public's feelings, especially the Americans that are "online" ?

My opinion. . . .

The United States of America is (by and large) a forgiving and forgetful country, so I think the 2400+ killed in the attack on Pearl Harbor has been either forgiven, or forgotten. I also believe that with the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, there was (and still is) a feeling of "payback" or redemption (if you will) for the attack on Pearl Harbor.

The Chinese suffered far worse atrocities under the Japanese (estimates are 3.5-4 million Chinese Civilians were killed by the Japanese between 1937-1945!!!), and had no such vindication (atomic bombings, etc) after WWII. I truly believe they are still bitter, and show this bitterness with their ever emerging pocketbooks. I also believe they are more patriotic than most here in the US (funny how communism works, huh. . . .), so buying a Japanese car may be seen as more of a taboo than here in the USA.

All this and GM actually makes some really nice cars in China (Buicks no less!!!), so the Chinese buy what they like and what they trust. . . . and that’s GM. . . . .

But alas, this is about Toyota capturing the #1 spot from GM for this first quarter, so I apologize for the off topic post, but you did ask. . . .;)

Very true. Unfortunately for Toyota, though, the Chinese still have alot of distrust/dislike for the Japanese due to WWII and the atrocities they (Japan) committed. Not trying to be negative here, it is a very real factor as to why Toyota has not had any success in China, and why I think the global sales race (b/t GM and Toyota) will be close for years to come.

Toyota is gaining market-share in the US, but GM is dominating China (which is a huge market in it's infancy). Plus, Japan is pretty much a closed market to the international community. That being said, I don't think GM's current vehicle lineup would appeal to the average Japanese, so that's pretty much a moot point. . . .

Throw all this together along with the Korean car makers (and their ability to make high content cars at a very low price, thus stealing sales from both GM and Toyota), and you have a recipe for an all out battle for the #1 spot for many years, IMHO.

As it is, Toyota is reaping the benefits of it's hard work, so kudo's to them. . . .It's proof that hard work really does pay off. . . .and consumer neglect (by GM) will never be tolerated in a free market. . . .
Finally, a rather classy thing to say :thumbup:


I think out of all the jap brands, Mitsubishi had it worst since they actually made the fighter planes in WW2.

My opinion. . . .

The United States of America is (by and large) a forgiving and forgetful country, so I think the 2400+ killed in the attack on Pearl Harbor has been either forgiven, or forgotten. I also believe that with the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, there was (and still is) a feeling of "payback" or redemption (if you will) for the attack on Pearl Harbor.

The Chinese suffered far worse atrocities under the Japanese (estimates are 3.5-4 million Chinese Civilians were killed by the Japanese between 1937-1945!!!), and had no such vindication (atomic bombings, etc) after WWII. I truly believe they are still bitter, and show this bitterness with their ever emerging pocketbooks. I also believe they are more patriotic than most here in the US (funny how communism works, huh. . . .), so buying a Japanese car may be seen as more of a taboo than here in the USA.

All this and GM actually makes some really nice cars in China (Buicks no less!!!), so the Chinese buy what they like and what they trust. . . . and that’s GM. . . . .

But alas, this is about Toyota capturing the #1 spot from GM for this first quarter, so I apologize for the off topic post, but you did ask. . . .;)
And the Cadillac brand is booming in China, seems like they got something right afterall :thumbup:

Toyota is doing very well in CHINA. I dont where people get the impression they are doing poorly. Yes they are behind GM, VOLKSWAGON, HONDA and even HYUANDAI. But the fact of the matter is TOYOTA is a latecomer in CHINA. But a company as big and resourceful as TOYOTA is going to be lagging for very long. If GM thinks CHINA is their salvation to greatness, then they are greatly mistaken.

Airport parking lots being rented to accomodate vehicles, GM is mass producing. I'm sure they will have that zero apr back to get rid of 07 inventory and everyone and their mama's will be trading in. KUDOS to Toyota, we have just won one battle, the fight is still one...we need to win many other battles to declare victory. I'm very sure we will loose in the last qtr cus of 07 clerance GM ususally does (thereby retaining their top 1 position for 07). But its just a matter of making one quarter out of the year into 2's and 3's and then you can do it consistanty..and become #1. HURRAY FOR TOYOTA!
:clap:

I believe you are thinking of Chrysler. . . .

GM has weaned itself off of incentives and "clearance sales" for over a year now, has cut production to get it more in line with demand, and slashed fleet sales since the beginning of the year (now at 24%, iirc). If anything, GM has hastened timeline for Toyota being #1 and not "pulling out all the stops" to stay #1 as you indicate.

If anything, this should show just how large GM is. . . . . Basically, up until 3-5 years ago, the last 30 years of cars have been lackluster at best. Couple this with rising pension and healthcare costs, the lack of product development, not listening to it’s customers, poor interiors, terrible contract negotiations (with the Unions), zero cost sharing between global resources (redundant engineering!!), and the overall lack of leadership. . . . . well it was basically the exact opposite of Toyota. All this, and it still took Toyota 30+ years to catch GM. . . . (I’m not taking anything away from Toyota, their rise to the top is quite impressive).

Believe it or not, GM is leaner, and meaner thanks in most part to Rick Wagoner and Bob “Maximum” Lutz. They are finally leveraging their global power, shutting down plants, making fewer cars, and saving more money. Their products have vastly improved (some are class leading!!), and with Lutz at the helm, design has never been better. . . .

Basically what I am trying to say is: Good for Toyota for a job well done, but for the next 10 years I see these two automotive powerhouses battling it out for the top spot. Toyota is at the top of it’s game, and GM is on the slow road to recovery. . . . Just imagine when GM is healthy. . . . In the end, the consumer wins with this great competition. . . .:)

Toyota is doing very well in CHINA. I dont where people get the impression they are doing poorly. Yes they are behind GM, VOLKSWAGON, HONDA and even HYUANDAI. But the fact of the matter is TOYOTA is a latecomer in CHINA. But a company as big and resourceful as TOYOTA is going to be lagging for very long. If GM thinks CHINA is their salvation to greatness, then they are greatly mistaken.

This tells all. . . . .

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/08/AR2007010801039.html


"GM says China is its biggest single national market outside the United States."

8 million cars sold in China for 2006, and the market is still emerging. . . .you bet GM thinks this is their "ace in the hole". They have a great reputation there, and are leading in sales with some very nice cars. . . . .

I think that we all knew it was only a matter of time before Toyota would surpass GM. I expect GM to come out with some awsome summer sales promotions. They will do anything it takes (even if that means losing big money like they have in the past) to hold onto the bragging rights that go along with being the world's largest automaker.
As far as China goes. GM may be doing well now, but Toyota is definetely not struggling in that market and they are slowly but surly increasing their sales and marketshare in that country.
Yes, Japan and China have unresolved issues about WW2 but its only a matter of time untill Toyota finds the same success in China that they have found in America.

Finally, a rather classy thing to say :thumbup:


??? :confused:



But alas, this is about Toyota capturing the #1 spot from GM for this first quarter,

Toyota is doing very well in CHINA. I dont where people get the impression they are doing poorly. Yes they are behind GM, VOLKSWAGON, HONDA and even HYUANDAI. But the fact of the matter is TOYOTA is a latecomer in CHINA. But a company as big and resourceful as TOYOTA is going to be lagging for very long. If GM thinks CHINA is their salvation to greatness, then they are greatly mistaken.

Correct....... :thumbup:
Toyota is doing well in China although still behind most manufacturers.
I know they are setting up plants in Bangladesh, India, China, Pakistan, Afghanistan.. I know for a fact that the Toyota Corolla demand exceeds production in all those countries.. How? I have visited those areas for business.... :D

There is a 4 month wait on a brand new Toyota Corolla in Pakistan which is assembled in Pakistan. I haven't been to India in a while but Toyota is building plants there.

China we know the 1 million car target Toyota has in the next few years.. Does Toyota usually meet its target. Hell yes.


Camry was introduced only NOW....................... :( ........... but nothing to worry about... Before TODAY... a few years ago... there was the same situation in the United States... so whatever.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070423/AUTO04/704230346/1148/AUTO01
Toyota's sales of its locally made Camry, launched in May, hit between 110,000 and 120,000 last year.



http://www.ft.com/cms/s/28ccae34-f118-11db-838b-000b5df10621,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=htt p%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F28ccae34-f118-11db-838b-000b5df10621.html&_i_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.google.com%2Fnews%3Fh l%3Den


Toyota ready to accelerate in Chinese market

By Geoff Dyer and David Pilling
Published: April 22 2007 22:41 | Last updated: April 22 2007 22:41

As Toyota (http://mwprices.ft.com/custom/ft2-com/html-quotechartnews.asp?FTSite=FTCOM&q=7203&searchtype&expanded=&countrycode=jp&s2=jp&symb=7203&company=NEW)has steadily advanced towards global top spot among carmakers, one of few consolations for rivals has been that the Japanese group appeared to be misfiring in China, the world’s fastest-growing market.
The carmaker, which is expected to overtake General Motors (http://mwprices.ft.com/custom/ft2-com/html-quotechartnews.asp?FTSite=FTCOM&q=GM&searchtype&expanded=&countrycode=us&s2=us&symb=GM&company=NEW) as top-seller globally this year, was late to come to China and its early moves were lacking the sure touch it has shown elsewhere in the past decade.



It is funny that now the antis started referring to China now... after today.... :lol::lol::lol:

I expect GM to come out with some awsome summer sales promotions. They will do anything it takes (even if that means losing big money like they have in the past) to hold onto the bragging rights that go along with being the world's largest automaker.

Honestly, I wouldn't expect that. And even if they did, it shouldn't matter. Blockbuster sales promotions are designed to sell of excess inventory (production). Since "largest automaker" is generally measured by worldwide production, it won't matter how many cars GM can unload at discount prices...they're doing it to unload already built vehicles.

Bottom line, there's no way they crank up production and then sell at prices rediculously below invoice just to hold onto #1.

Correct....... :thumbup:
Toyota is doing well in China although still behind most manufacturers. . . . .

That's like me saying "GM is doing great in North America although it is still losing marketshare. . . ."

Yea, it's that absurd. . . .


And your naive if you think China is the same as the US, or will follow the same path. First, the Chinese (in general) still hold a grudge towards the Japanese for WWII (think Pakistan/India relations, if that helps). Also, GM has great products in China, unlike what GM had in the 70's, 80's, and 90's here in the US when Toyohondissan (or would it be Toyohondatsun?) made their big push. And lastly, GM's cooperate culture has changed (albeit slowly). They finally understand that selling cars is about PRODUCT, and the products being developed now are very good (thank you Bob Lutz!!).

On a side note, as hard as it may be for us to believe, in China, Buicks are status symbols. If you drive a Buick, you are seen to have wealth, status, and taste. Bash all you want, that is how Buicks are marketed in China, and that is how they are sold. . . . As a status symbol.

Chinese Park Avenue (Built off of GM Holden's Zeta chassis):

http://autoreview.belproject.com/media/1/20070413-buick-park-avenue.jpg (http://autoreview.belproject.com/item/371)



http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/gallery/data/500/medium/U2050P33T148D168185F2100DT20070410192308.jpg


__________________________________________________ _________________________________


Toyota has it's work cut out for it in the Chinese market. What Toyota has on it's side is money (and lots of it), and patience (like no other auto company in the world). They prove time and time again, that persistence and a whole lot of money can overcome many obstacles. . . .

And your naive if you think China is the same as the US, or will follow the same path. First, the Chinese (in general) still hold a grudge towards the Japanese for WWII (think Pakistan/India relations, if that helps). Also, GM has great products in China, unlike what GM had in the 70's, 80's, and 90's here in the US when Toyohondissan (or would it be Toyohondatsun?) made their big push. And lastly, GM's cooperate culture has changed (albeit slowly). They finally understand that selling cars is about PRODUCT, and the products being developed now are very good (thank you Bob Lutz!!).



You are in complete denial. Your misguided logic that some 70 year old grudge is going to hold Toyota back and in turn help GM is completely absurd. The Chinese don't like the Americans anymore than they like the Japanese. To them both are adversaries. It will only be a matter of time when GM's Chinese partner will reverse engineer a Buick and release it under its own name. Once they master all the technical know how of how to build a decent car, they will dump their GM partnership like yesterday's garbage. And btw, TOYOTA IS GROWING AT A FASTER RATE THAN GM IN CHINA. 24% growth for GM vs 66% growth for Toyota compare to first quarter of 2006

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/business/20070405-0345-toyota-china-.html

SHANGHAI – Toyota Motor Corp. sold 66 percent more vehicles in mainland China and Hong Kong in the first quarter than a year earlier, helped largely by brisk demand for locally made Camry sedans.

Toyota, which competes with Honda Motor Co. and other global carmakers in China, sold 103,000 vehicles in the market during the three-month period, including 2,700 units in Hong Kong, a company official told Reuters on Thursday.

var tcdacmd="sa=a;sz=3;ad";ThaSHANGHAI – Toyota Motor Corp. sold 66 percent more vehicles in mainland China and Hong Kong in the first quarter than a year earlier, helped largely by brisk demand for locally made Camry sedans.

Toyota, which competes with Honda Motor Co. and other global carmakers in China, sold 103,000 vehicles in the market during the three-month period, including 2,700 units in Hong Kong, a company official told Reuters on Thursday.

var tcdacmd="sa=a;sz=3;ad";That outpaced 25 percent growth for General Motors Corp., which entered the China market much earlier and recorded much bigger sales of 291,588 vehicles in the mainland from Janurary to March. t outpaced 25 percent growth for General Motors Corp., which entered the China market much earlier and recorded much bigger sales of 291,588 vehicles in the mainland from Janurary to March.


Toyota is growing at nearly two and half times the rate of GM. If Toyota continues its current growth rate in China, it will be very soon they will topple GM in China as well. Face it GM fans, your beloved company's glory days are behind them.

Good for Toyota.

I"m not going to lie, that's a nice looking Buick...and you wonder why they are loosing market share in the U.S., not only GM but the other "domestics" that seem to put out better cars overseas...how patriotic or just plain ironic. Yes I know different market but some of cars are pretty good looking, generally better than their American counterpart IMO.:thumbup:

Good for Toyota.

I"m not going to lie, that's a nice looking Buick...and you wonder why they are loosing market share in the U.S., not only GM but the other "domestics" that seem to put out better cars overseas...how patriotic or just plain ironic. Yes I know different market but some of cars are pretty good looking, generally better than their American counterpart IMO.:thumbup:

I agree the interior looks nice. But the base engine is only like 2.8L. Too underpowered for such a large car.

I'll agree with you on the reverse engineering part. . . .Japan did it in with TV's, VCR's, IC's, and pretty much all other electronics the US used to dominate (although the US has quite a resurgence with IC's, thankfully), and China will do it and is doing it.

Ever heard of Chery? Yea, they sell a car in China that is literally the exact same as a Chevrolet sold in China. They reverse engineered it, and now everything from the door panels to the headlights are interchange between these two cars. They copied a GM car, with no penalty from the government, and are now selling it for less than the Chevrolet it was copied from. . . . . And don't just think the Chinese will only pluck GM's designs, Toyota and others are in the same boat. . . . . these emerging markets (with their lack of copyright laws and all) are a double edged sword. . . . .Toyota is no island, they will be copied and kicked out as well . . . . . .

Are you a marketing major? Toyota growing 2.5x the rate of GM in China. . . . . That sounds good, but their marketshare is only 3.5% of 7 million vehicles, so that's 245,000 cars. GM's marketshare is 11.8%, or 877,000 cars. Now if they both sold 100,000 more cars this year, you could claim that Toyota had a 41% jump in sales, while GM would have a measly 11.4% jump, yet they both sold equally as many "new cars". See how statistics screw things up, especially when people don’t understand them (or worse, throw them around in hopes that others will blindly believe them!!)? Marketshare is king, and right now, GM is eating Toyota's lunch in China, with no real end in sight. . . .

BTW, Ford Motor Groups sales were up 87%(!!) in China last year, too bad they only sold 167,000 vehicles (or 2.3% marketshare). . . . .

Ever heard of Chery? Yea, they sell a car in China that is literally the exact same as a Chevrolet sold in China. They reverse engineered it, and now everything from the door panels to the headlights are interchange between these two cars. They copied a GM car, with no penalty from the government, and are now selling it for less than the Chevrolet it was copied from. . . . . And don't just think the Chinese will only pluck GM's designs, Toyota and others are in the same boat. . .

The Chinese knock-off market most certainly doesn't stop at Rolex....anybody for a Chinese RX 330?

http://news.windingroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/huanghai-torrent-rx330-600-001.jpg

The front end of that is a photocopy of a Pontiac Torrent. Hey, how about a Chinese Colorado?

http://img.alibaba.com/photo/51165550/SG_Plutus_Pickup.jpg

:rolleyes:

A lot of people here in the states are still holding just as much of a grudge towards Japan in regards to WW2.
We could sit here and argue what might happen or could happen, lets just agree to disagree and see what happens.

GM has weaned itself off of incentives and "clearance sales" for over a year now

I'm sorry buy that for face value. I'm very confident that this program will be back for 07 clerance when it needs to make way for 08 inventory. Its been the case for the past 2-3 years (yes 06 was offered in zero apr to make way for 07's - hence you've not seen it since then).

Good for Toyota.

I"m not going to lie, that's a nice looking Buick...and you wonder why they are loosing market share in the U.S., not only GM but the other "domestics" that seem to put out better cars overseas...how patriotic or just plain ironic. Yes I know different market but some of cars are pretty good looking, generally better than their American counterpart IMO.:thumbup:
I agree, that's a nice looking Buick. And I agree on "foreign" domestic products that're better in quality and value than the "domestic" domestic products. Just look at the euro Ford cars, or the Holden/Vauxhaul GM cars, enough said.

congrats toyota! its been 50 years in the making!
i was gushing with pride when i heard this today!

I agree, that's a nice looking Buick. And I agree on "foreign" domestic products that're better in quality and value than the "domestic" domestic products. Just look at the euro Ford cars, or the Holden/Vauxhaul GM cars, enough said.
Dude.
Just look at the Land Cruisers, Crestas, Crowns, Corollas overseas and tell me how better they look than the ones in the United States..

I love the Corollas in Thailand and Burma and most of Asia... Just from a simple bumper molding to the NAVIGATION system in a TOYOTA COROLLA to the tinted light brown glass to the door moldings to the LIGHT DESIGNS.... it is amazing.

FABRIC... oh God.. FABRIC.. so much better overseas.... :disappoin

Well.. we want airbags and other safety featurers here don't we... :sosad::)

Dude.
Just look at the Land Cruisers, Crestas, Crowns, Corollas overseas and tell me how better they look than the ones in the United States..

I love the Corollas in Thailand and Burma and most of Asia... Just from a simple bumper molding to the NAVIGATION system in a TOYOTA COROLLA to the tinted light brown glass to the door moldings to the LIGHT DESIGNS.... it is amazing.

FABRIC... oh God.. FABRIC.. so much better overseas.... :disappoin

Well.. we want airbags and other safety featurers here don't we... :sosad::) Yeah, I agree RAV. Plus, in the JDM market you could pretty much get most of the Toyota cars with 4wd, and many engine-choices plus other optional extras to boot (that we don't get here no matter if we're willing to shell out the money to get).

At this point, I might as well make my point to everyone here, domestic or import fans/fanboys or what not. You see, unlike what most domestic fans/fanboys think of me, I do very much like domestic brands and its cars. The Pontiac G8 will be the next best thing for GM, NOT the Impala (if those concept renderings are true :ugh3: ). To me, the real Impala was dead after the 60's. And the GTO, well it was such a shame for GM/Pontiac to just slap a GTO badge onto a Holden Monaro and called it a GTO, which is otherwise a damn good car.
I really hate (american) Ford for "jibbing" us North Americans with the oh-so-freakin-old Ford Focus here, while the European one is all new, with high quality build plus great driving characteristics. It makes me laugh when I see the current Focus TV commercial, where it showed the euro-Focus WRC Rally car, and then at the end it showed the american Focus, trying to sell it off as if they're the same thing :rolleyes: The ones in the know will acknowledge that the american Focus you can buy now has nothing to do with the successful Focus you get in Europe. Same goes for the Fusion we have to deal with here, rather than the gorgeous Mondeo you can get if you're in Europe. Nothing against the Fusion, it's just if I'm getting a Ford, I much rather have the Mondeo, as simple as that.

Anyway, same can be said about the Jap-brand cars, where you can get much better choices over there (and Europe), as opposed to the (for the lack of better words) "shit" we could only get here. Here we don't even get the diesel versions, which I think it's a better choice regarding all-out fuel economy. Speaking of Honda, I very much like the Civic hatchback as opposed to the sedan here, but no luck are we gonna be seeing that coming over here.

Either way, this type of debate or argument will be neverending. At least that's my 2 cents and I agree with where you (and perhaps others alike) are coming from. Bottomline is I have nothing against domestic (just speaking for myself in this case), but it bothers me when the big-3 offers cars that I actually want, only in other continents. Last but not least, I hate the fact that Toyota isn't bringing the Scion brand over here in Canada. I hope that'll change very soon, cuz they're neglecting a huge potential market of Scion owners here big time.


PS: I dunno about you RAV, but I prefer the Australian Camry (aka Aurion) as opposed to the one we get here. Even the version you can get in China is IMO better looking (and probably better equiped) than the ones here.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :eek: :eek: :naughty: :naughty: :naughty: :whatwhat: :whatwhat: :heart: :heart: :heart: :) :) :) :D :D . YES!!!!

^^^ You forgot to put at the end "#1 for life!!" :lol:

:lol:

Alright, we can't go without Queen's "We are the champions of the world" now:lol: Start singing!!:whatwhat: :lol:

Yeah, I agree RAV. Plus, in the JDM market you could pretty much get most of the Toyota cars with 4wd, and many engine-choices plus other optional extras to boot (that we don't get here no matter if we're willing to shell out the money to get).

At this point, I might as well make my point to everyone here, domestic or import fans/fanboys or what not. You see, unlike what most domestic fans/fanboys think of me, I do very much like domestic brands and its cars. The Pontiac G8 will be the next best thing for GM, NOT the Impala (if those concept renderings are true :ugh3: ). To me, the real Impala was dead after the 60's. And the GTO, well it was such a shame for GM/Pontiac to just slap a GTO badge onto a Holden Monaro and called it a GTO, which is otherwise a damn good car.
I really hate (american) Ford for "jibbing" us North Americans with the oh-so-freakin-old Ford Focus here, while the European one is all new, with high quality build plus great driving characteristics. It makes me laugh when I see the current Focus TV commercial, where it showed the euro-Focus WRC Rally car, and then at the end it showed the american Focus, trying to sell it off as if they're the same thing :rolleyes: The ones in the know will acknowledge that the american Focus you can buy now has nothing to do with the successful Focus you get in Europe. Same goes for the Fusion we have to deal with here, rather than the gorgeous Mondeo you can get if you're in Europe. Nothing against the Fusion, it's just if I'm getting a Ford, I much rather have the Mondeo, as simple as that.

Anyway, same can be said about the Jap-brand cars, where you can get much better choices over there (and Europe), as opposed to the (for the lack of better words) "shit" we could only get here. Here we don't even get the diesel versions, which I think it's a better choice regarding all-out fuel economy. Speaking of Honda, I very much like the Civic hatchback as opposed to the sedan here, but no luck are we gonna be seeing that coming over here.

Either way, this type of debate or argument will be neverending. At least that's my 2 cents and I agree with where you (and perhaps others alike) are coming from. Bottomline is I have nothing against domestic (just speaking for myself in this case), but it bothers me when the big-3 offers cars that I actually want, only in other continents. Last but not least, I hate the fact that Toyota isn't bringing the Scion brand over here in Canada. I hope that'll change very soon, cuz they're neglecting a huge potential market of Scion owners here big time.


PS: I dunno about you RAV, but I prefer the Australian Camry (aka Aurion) as opposed to the one we get here. Even the version you can get in China is IMO better looking (and probably better equiped) than the ones here.

I agree with you about better car's being offered on other continents. In my opinion, Australia has the best cars any auto company offers. I'm partial to Holden’s, but the Ford's and Toyota's they get are fantastic as well (by their looks and content listing, anyways).

Now, the next logical question is, Why? Crash testing standards, Emissions Standards, American taste (or lack there of), Cost Cutting, or Complacency? I say it's a combination of all of these things, but I believe in a free market, the "average" customer gets exactly what they want (within reason). Car company caters to the "average" customer, and throw in just enough extra's (whether that's Nav, diesels, power, manual transmissions, or sporty ride) to satisfy the car nuts, like you and I. These are low volume, niche vehicles that bring in relatively little money compared to the Camry’s, Accord’s, Impala’s, and 500’s. . . .

On a side note, the new GTO's are everything the old one's used to be: A bland looking car with a big motor. The new one's failed because GM put a retro name (with a loyal following) on a bland car, while competing with Ford's retro bodystyled Mustang. That and the new GTO was (is) a $33,000 car. . . . albeit a very well equiped car. Independent Rear Suspension, full leather seats (front and back), 10 speaker Blaplunkt (sp) sound system, 400hp/400ft-lb, 6-speed manual, Dual piston PBR (Australia's equivalent of Brembo) front brakes, and a fantastic Holden chassis and interior. It runs low 13's in the 1/4, knocks down 26-28mpg highway, and 17-20 mixed driving. I guess I have a soft spot for it though. . . . I bought one about 3 weeks ago. . . .and have been smiling ever since. . . . :D

PS: I dunno about you RAV, but I prefer the Australian Camry (aka Aurion) as opposed to the one we get here. Even the version you can get in China is IMO better looking (and probably better equiped) than the ones here.

I like them both actually. Both good designs... I love the electric blue one... May be in 5 years or so... 5 speed manual tan interior with sunroof and all.. :D

http://www.borat.tv/images/desktop4_.jpg


I have been told by a reliable source that the man with the fake moustache is actually RICK WAGONER in disguise.

I agree with you about better car's being offered on other continents. In my opinion, Australia has the best cars any auto company offers. I'm partial to Holden’s, but the Ford's and Toyota's they get are fantastic as well (by their looks and content listing, anyways).

Now, the next logical question is, Why? Crash testing standards, Emissions Standards, American taste (or lack there of), Cost Cutting, or Complacency? I say it's a combination of all of these things, but I believe in a free market, the "average" customer gets exactly what they want (within reason). Car company caters to the "average" customer, and throw in just enough extra's (whether that's Nav, diesels, power, manual transmissions, or sporty ride) to satisfy the car nuts, like you and I. These are low volume, niche vehicles that bring in relatively little money compared to the Camry’s, Accord’s, Impala’s, and 500’s. . . .
Yeah, damn prisoner-state always gets better cars (j/king :lol: ) And the Holden Monaro and Ford Falcon are by far the two of my favorites Aussie/American effort. I wish NASCAR is more like the Australian V8 Touring Car Championship series, but that ain't gonna happen :(

In terms of your logical question, you're absolutely correct that it's pretty much all of the above :thumbup: Sometimes, to be able to either A) bring/import a car over here, or B) manufacturer/assemble the same type car here, we'll certainly see a whole lot of compromises. Plus, nowadays whichever cars that get made or not are solely dependent on the marketing people, not so much the designers and engineers. Which IMO isn't good in a sense that, bottomline we as consumers may have less choices due to whatever decisions these marketing people made (due to their research or "intuitions"). Nonetheless there really isn't too much we as consumers could do, other than speaking with our wallets. Let's hope all the manufacturers' effort to globalize platforms and engineering/design would surely make tomorrow's consumer market a better place :)



On a side note, the new GTO's are everything the old one's used to be: A bland looking car with a big motor. The new one's failed because GM put a retro name (with a loyal following) on a bland car, while competing with Ford's retro bodystyled Mustang. That and the new GTO was (is) a $33,000 car. . . . albeit a very well equiped car. Independent Rear Suspension, full leather seats (front and back), 10 speaker Blaplunkt (sp) sound system, 400hp/400ft-lb, 6-speed manual, Dual piston PBR (Australia's equivalent of Brembo) front brakes, and a fantastic Holden chassis and interior. It runs low 13's in the 1/4, knocks down 26-28mpg highway, and 17-20 mixed driving. I guess I have a soft spot for it though. . . . I bought one about 3 weeks ago. . . .and have been smiling ever since. . . . :D
Smart buy :thumbup: It's a great car, period. I still wouldn't have called it the GTO if I were the chief of marketing or whatever, so they definitely made a mistake marketing the Monaro as a GTO. Nevertheless the Monaro is great value for money, and a competent package to boot. I'm sure I'll have a big grin on my face too if I were to own and drive one :D Besides, the Monaro is "donut" friendly, which means it's a cop-magnet :naughty::lol:

I like them both actually. Both good designs... I love the electric blue one... May be in 5 years or so... 5 speed manual tan interior with sunroof and all.. :D
haha yeah, the Electric Blue colour is very stunning. If it's in 5 years or so, let's wish for a 6-speed :naughty:


And I take it back partially to what I said, I like the Camry we have here as well, but ONLY the SE version (with the different grill and such). It just looks better, no doubt about that. The Aurion though seems so much more muscular :)

http://www.borat.tv/images/desktop4_.jpg


I have been told by a reliable source that the man with the fake moustache is actually RICK WAGONER in disguise.
LOL :lol: So Wagoner sells cars by day, pubic hair by night? :rofl: