Lexus goes 'all-in' with hybrid LS 600h L

In the high-stakes poker game of luxury sedans, Lexus always ups the ante when it comes time to redo its flagships LS sedan.


It started back in 1989 when Lexus introduced two models to the world, as part of Toyota's assault on the luxury market. It started off as an LS 400 (with the number roughly designating engine size), and progressed through the LS 430 to the latest generation of LS 460. The latest redesign brought with it a longer wheelbase model for the first time.


And now comes the world's first hybrid V8 model, in the LS 600h L. In presentation and price, it is well worthy of the flagship mantle for the Lexus line.




Full Article (http://www6.autonet.ca/Spotlight/NewModels/story.cfm?story=/Spotlight/NewModels/2007/04/22/4102907.html)

An honest question,

Isn't the LS460 a much better value? The 600 has a huge premium attached to it, is a far heavier car which kills performance and the fuel economy is actually a bit worse despite being a hybrid. And I'm not going to touch on the argument about whether or not it stacks up in the prestige category with, say, the Mercedes S-class because I don't have the money to touch either one. :lol:

Test vehicle: 2008 Lexus LS 600h L
Price range: $132,000 to $158,700
I think people who would spend that kind of money wouldn't be concerned about shaving off 2mpg.:lol::lol: :lol:

I think people who would spend that kind of money wouldn't be concerned about shaving off 2mpg.:lol::lol: :lol:


That class of people are concerned about being different and making a different statement on the road.

An honest question,

Isn't the LS460 a much better value? The 600 has a huge premium attached to it, is a far heavier car which kills performance and the fuel economy is actually a bit worse despite being a hybrid. And I'm not going to touch on the argument about whether or not it stacks up in the prestige category with, say, the Mercedes S-class because I don't have the money to touch either one. :lol:
Yes the 460 is a "much better value", which are 3 words that uber-richasses couldn't care less about :lol: The customer-base is pretty much the type of people that would buy a Maybach per say.

I understand what you guys are saying. Gas mileage for the elite is not a top consideration sure, but then again what's the point of doing the hybrid powertrain in that case?

There's a big Lexus guy on one of the boards I frequent who was saying he just doesn't believe this car fits with Lexus' original core goal, that is highest quality luxury at an un-snobbish price. I guess I can see where he is coming from. In the 460 the quality won't be any worse -- it actually might be better since there's less gadgetry to worry about -- the 460 will actually perform better and makes just as big a statement at the country club.

I'm interested to see how such a high-dollar Lexus does in this market. It is going against some very well-established players.

Well, think of it this way. I'm not making a case specifically for this Lexus, but just uber-luxury sedan in general. In most cases, these uber-luxury sedans boast a very large displacement engine, which isn't really for performance but for comfort, the comfort of a non-stressing engine just pulling the (rather heavy) car along with next to no effort, and no noticeable vibration and noise, which in this class of vehicles are of utmost importance.
You do want instant power for the get-go, but at the same time the need for the lack of vibration and noise aforementioned, which equates to total comfort, the whole point of these uber-luxury cars.
I think by combining the "hybridness" to the uber-luxury formula, it furthers improves on that "comfort." Since the engine isn't necessarily ON all the time, especially at stop-lights, when you take off it only employs the electric motor, hence the vibration and noise are further reduced, to both the interior and from the outside as well. The fuel saved by running on electric motor only when cruising at slow speeds within an urban environment is merely an icing on the cake, but usually not something the owners would care about as a priority.

Hope that answers your question. Although the disclaimer would be that it depends on the individual, but if I'm an uber-richass looking into buying such a conspicuous vehicle, I guess the total comfort would be my priority for shelling out that much money for one of these uber-luxury sedans.

Plus, I'd probably hire a chauffeur to drive it which is typically the case ;)

^^^I agree.
Its (the LS600) pretty much a poor man's Maybach...which isn't a bad thing.:thumbup:

Everyone should read Edmunds review on this car (for info, not because Edmunds is always correct!). The 460 is a better value, and gets better mileage. The advantage the H brings to the table is it's "green" (Lexus' word, not mine). Imagine you are an exec at Apple or something and want to show your wealth but be "responsible", you could look at this car. There is some insight regarding who buys these cars in the Edmunds article. For less dough the 460 still a great buy in this class, and it parks itself, woohoo!
Jeff

Everyone should read Edmunds review on this car (for info, not because Edmunds is always correct!). The 460 is a better value, and gets better mileage. The advantage the H brings to the table is it's "green" (Lexus' word, not mine). Imagine you are an exec at Apple or something and want to show your wealth but be "responsible", you could look at this car. There is some insight regarding who buys these cars in the Edmunds article. For less dough the 460 still a great buy in this class, and it parks itself, woohoo!
Jeff

for 2008, the EPA ratings have changed and you can't really compare the mpg results of a 2007 to anything 2008 since they are tested differently.

I am sure the hybrid version of the LS saves more gas.

I dunno but in Canada, that loaded LS600h L is ~ the price of a base S550 4Matic. A few mpg off the LS460 won't matter. The difference between the S550's mpg and the LS600h L mpg is larger. Same for the 760iL.


Also, it's quiet when the engine's off and no vibration. Besides, it puts out less CO2 than your average V12 engine that's for sure.

Another is the AWD system and LED headlights which aren't available for the LS460.

Theres something very important you guys are forgetting. Lexus hybrids are ment to give out the power output of a larger engine with the fuel economy of a smaller engine. Like the LS600h wasn't ment to have better fuel economy than its base V8 conterpart. Its ment to give better fuel economy with the power output of a V10 or V12, whichever one Lexus was aiming at. And it pretty much does that. Hence the name LS600h (460 = 4.6...600 = 6.0).

Hence the name LS600h (460 = 4.6...600 = 6.0).

Actually, the LS600h has a 5.0 liter V8.

for 2008, the EPA ratings have changed and you can't really compare the mpg results of a 2007 to anything 2008 since they are tested differently.

I am sure the hybrid version of the LS saves more gas.

19/27 for the 08 and 16/24 for the 07 long wheel base model, according to a NEW procedure estimate via the EPA web site. That's not a big jump. That being said, the 08 does give virtual V12 power from a V8 package -- too bad the hybrid system comes at a cost (which kills the performace gain) in the form of added weight. You also lose trunk space. For the price premium, the 460 is still a much better value.

Jeff

Theres something very important you guys are forgetting. Lexus hybrids are ment to give out the power output of a larger engine with the fuel economy of a smaller engine. Like the LS600h wasn't ment to have better fuel economy than its base V8 conterpart. Its ment to give better fuel economy with the power output of a V10 or V12, whichever one Lexus was aiming at. And it pretty much does that. Hence the name LS600h (460 = 4.6...600 = 6.0).

It's meant to be politically correct. Power is great, but not when you add weight due to the hybrid system's components. And lose trunk space. It's an amazing vehicle, don't get me wrong, but I think it's imprecise in its message. The hybrid system is probably meant more as a status symbol, being it's the only super-luxury sedan with it and the world's first car with LED headlamps for low and high beam use (according to Lexus' web site). In this market segment, exclusivity is important.

Off the subject a bit....how long do you think it will be until someone with more money than sense gets a hold of one and tries to "pimp" it out? Arrrgh!

Jeff

19/27 for the 08 and 16/24 for the 07 long wheel base model, according to a NEW procedure estimate via the EPA web site. That's not a big jump. That being said, the 08 does give virtual V12 power from a V8 package -- too bad the hybrid system comes at a cost (which kills the performace gain) in the form of added weight. You also lose trunk space. For the price premium, the 460 is still a much better value.

Jeff

and you think a 5.0 litre V8 + battery/motors is heavier than a 6.0 V12 engine? :confused:

It's meant to be politically correct. Power is great, but not when you add weight due to the hybrid system's components. And lose trunk space. It's an amazing vehicle, don't get me wrong, but I think it's imprecise in its message. The hybrid system is probably meant more as a status symbol, being it's the only super-luxury sedan with it and the world's first car with LED headlamps for low and high beam use (according to Lexus' web site). In this market segment, exclusivity is important.
The additional weight will pretty much be irrelevant due to the instant-torque delivery of the hybrid powertrain. You're right in terms of it being MORE of a status symbol compared to the 460, so the decrease in trunk space will be unimportant as well. Regarding MPG, really, the ones that can afford this car will barely give a damn :)


Off the subject a bit....how long do you think it will be until someone with more money than sense gets a hold of one and tries to "pimp" it out? Arrrgh!
Surely someone must have already done it, although I haven't seen it on magazines yet. Just keep a lookout on mags like DUB :lol: And I'm sure someone in Japan would've probably pimp it out VIP-style. What's the point of having a hybrid uber-luxury sedan when you don't have some big-dish "bling" to go with? :lol:

and you think a 5.0 litre V8 + battery/motors is heavier than a 6.0 V12 engine? :confused:

Why couldn't it be? Mercedes doesn't publish the weight of their fully dressed engines AFAIK, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility.

As far as trunk space goes, I think it does carry some importance. Will it swallow 4 golf bags for the outing at the country club? I guess the question is, at what point do you stop overlooking the "minor" nuisances (unimpressive fuel economy for a hybrid, decreased performace because of its weight, small trunk) at this kind of price point?

If trunk space doesn't matter, why would a hybrid system matter? Do you find many rich conservatives worried about CO2 emissions from their V12 Mercedes? Err, probably not.

Obviously, technically speaking, it is a very impressive car. Probably the most impressive in terms of whiz-bang gadgets yet. But it is not perfect and overall there is a better car in the Lexus lineup. That's just my opinion, which again doesn't mean much because I can't touch either the 460 or the 600. hehe

Do you find many rich conservatives worried about CO2 emissions from their V12 Mercedes? Err, probably not.

Definantly not.... but they want to LOOK LIKE they do, ha ha ha

Why couldn't it be? Mercedes doesn't publish the weight of their fully dressed engines AFAIK, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility.

As far as trunk space goes, I think it does carry some importance. Will it swallow 4 golf bags for the outing at the country club? I guess the question is, at what point do you stop overlooking the "minor" nuisances (unimpressive fuel economy for a hybrid, decreased performace because of its weight, small trunk) at this kind of price point?

If trunk space doesn't matter, why would a hybrid system matter? Do you find many rich conservatives worried about CO2 emissions from their V12 Mercedes? Err, probably not.

Obviously, technically speaking, it is a very impressive car. Probably the most impressive in terms of whiz-bang gadgets yet. But it is not perfect and overall there is a better car in the Lexus lineup. That's just my opinion, which again doesn't mean much because I can't touch either the 460 or the 600. hehe
it could but I'm also throwing out the possibility that it could also be lighter. Note not all the extra weight of the LS600h L is from the hybrid system. It does have a *mechanical* AWD system (i.e. it's not 4WD-i found on the RXh, HiHy and Estima Hybrid)

As far as trunk space goes, I think it does carry some importance. Will it swallow 4 golf bags for the outing at the country club? I guess the question is, at what point do you stop overlooking the "minor" nuisances (unimpressive fuel economy for a hybrid, decreased performace because of its weight, small trunk) at this kind of price point?
4 golf bags? I dunno. But 4 dead bodies? Surely that's no problem at all for the Sopranos :lol:

i love that car..hmmmmm a LS

and you think a 5.0 litre V8 + battery/motors is heavier than a 6.0 V12 engine? :confused:

I never said that. We were discussing the 460 vs the 600. They perform very very closely to each other. Thus, my previous message about the hybrid + weight = 460 performance.

The additional weight will pretty much be irrelevant due to the instant-torque delivery of the hybrid powertrain. You're right in terms of it being MORE of a status symbol compared to the 460, so the decrease in trunk space will be unimportant as well. Regarding MPG, really, the ones that can afford this car will barely give a damn :)



Surely someone must have already done it, although I haven't seen it on magazines yet. Just keep a lookout on mags like DUB :lol: And I'm sure someone in Japan would've probably pimp it out VIP-style. What's the point of having a hybrid uber-luxury sedan when you don't have some big-dish "bling" to go with? :lol:

The 460 and 600 perform very close to each other. Apparently the weight does have something to do with it. The 600 also has more weight due to it's extra luxury options and probably more sound deadening, etc.
The 600 is rather understated, as is the status quo with big powerful expensive sedans. Sometime soon we'll see a 600 totally degraded by someone with the will and resources, unfortunately. Yaaay bling. Not.
Jeff

Why couldn't it be? Mercedes doesn't publish the weight of their fully dressed engines AFAIK, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility.

As far as trunk space goes, I think it does carry some importance. Will it swallow 4 golf bags for the outing at the country club? I guess the question is, at what point do you stop overlooking the "minor" nuisances (unimpressive fuel economy for a hybrid, decreased performace because of its weight, small trunk) at this kind of price point?

If trunk space doesn't matter, why would a hybrid system matter? Do you find many rich conservatives worried about CO2 emissions from their V12 Mercedes? Err, probably not.

Obviously, technically speaking, it is a very impressive car. Probably the most impressive in terms of whiz-bang gadgets yet. But it is not perfect and overall there is a better car in the Lexus lineup. That's just my opinion, which again doesn't mean much because I can't touch either the 460 or the 600. hehe
See, I totally agree with this. Edmunds does too. I haven't read the C&D write up on it. For THIS MUCH DOUGH you really should get your cake and eat it too. 4 golf bags (fancy ones, not the skinny kind guys that walk the course use) is vital. How embarassing would it be for the owner to say his 4th friend can't come because the 100k dollar sedan won't hold the cargo? Crazy. The base MSRP of a 460 is 61k. That's really a good price for such a well-made sedan. The 100k demanded for the 600 is too much, for what it returns on investment, so to speak.
Good Points.
Jeff

The 460 and 600 perform very close to each other. Apparently the weight does have something to do with it. The 600 also has more weight due to it's extra luxury options and probably more sound deadening, etc.
The 600 is rather understated, as is the status quo with big powerful expensive sedans. Sometime soon we'll see a 600 totally degraded by someone with the will and resources, unfortunately. Yaaay bling. Not.
Jeff
The security-modification businesses might likely get more of this new LS into their shops, you just know that some of these owners would like to have total-tinted bulletproof windows & windshields, heavier and thicker bulletproof doors, anti-carjacking flamethrowing device, etc for those extra paranoid executives :cool:

The security-modification businesses might likely get more of this new LS into their shops, you just know that some of these owners would like to have total-tinted bulletproof windows & windshields, heavier and thicker bulletproof doors, anti-carjacking flamethrowing device, etc for those extra paranoid executives :cool:

Way off topic (sorry), but.... Does anyone know if the USA still exclusively use Cadillac to drive around our president? I know GMC products are used for Secret Service staff.
Jeff

I never said that. We were discussing the 460 vs the 600. They perform very very closely to each other. Thus, my previous message about the hybrid + weight = 460 performance.
correct but the point made is that it's supposed to equal a 6.0 litre V12 (although really, I'm sure it's because lexus thinks 600 sounds nice lol) so we should be comparing to that.

e.g. does the Prius weigh more than a Prius with a 2.0 litre engine and no hybrid components?

I know the TCH weighs more than an XLE V6 so we know that part is true that the hybrid components are heavier than the "equivalent" V6.

Actually, the LS600h has a 5.0 liter V8.

Yes I know, but you missed my whole point. The 600 in LS600h is suppose to mean it resembles a 6.0 V12.

Way off topic (sorry), but.... Does anyone know if the USA still exclusively use Cadillac to drive around our president? I know GMC products are used for Secret Service staff.
Jeff
Dunno, but I'd think so. Don't they use Lincoln as well? Maybe even the 300C?

correct but the point made is that it's supposed to equal a 6.0 litre V12 (although really, I'm sure it's because lexus thinks 600 sounds nice lol) so we should be comparing to that.

e.g. does the Prius weigh more than a Prius with a 2.0 litre engine and no hybrid components?

I know the TCH weighs more than an XLE V6 so we know that part is true that the hybrid components are heavier than the "equivalent" V6.
Yes, I realize the point Lexus is trying to make with the V8 instead of the traditional V12. But they almost had that for tens of thousands of dollars less, in the 460. I will give the 600 many kudos though: it's the cheapest of the V12s (yes even tho it's not a real V12), and one of the quickest. Not to mention you have ALOT to talk about when bench-racing your CEO buddies.
Jeff

I wish Lexus all the luck in selling LS600h. Its definitely priced right at $111k but its getting to be a very crowded segment.

I wouldn't call the LS600h a poor Maybach. There are still a few cars before it.

Here is the pecking order that I see in the car kingdom for flagship sedans.

.Lexus LS460L ($86k+)
.Mercedes S550 ($86k+)
..Lexus LS600h (100k+)
..Jaguar Super V8 (100k+)
..Audi LWB W12 (118k+)
...Maserati Quattroporte ($120k+)
...(upcoming Porsche Panamera 4-door with V10)
.......(upcoming Aston Martin Rapide 4-door with V12)
.......BMW 760Li ($125k+)
.......Mercedes S600 ($130k+)
..........Bentley Flying Spur ($160k+)
.....................Bentley Arnage ($250k+)
.....................................Bentley Azure ($330k+)
................................................Ro lls-Royce Phantom ($330k+)
.................................................. .Maybach 57 ($330k+)

Yes, I realize the point Lexus is trying to make with the V8 instead of the traditional V12. But they almost had that for tens of thousands of dollars less, in the 460. I will give the 600 many kudos though: it's the cheapest of the V12s (yes even tho it's not a real V12), and one of the quickest. Not to mention you have ALOT to talk about when bench-racing your CEO buddies.
Jeff
I agree with you on the LS460. It beats the competitors in price yet the only thing it gives up is style (which is subjective but it's better than "giving up" something else like. oh I don't know, reliability? heh) . But the V12 club is very exclusive so I think Lexus is just gonna say "well, making a V12 is too "easy", we're gonna try something different" and I think one of execs or designer mentioned that in one of the articles (MT or C/D).

I wish Lexus all the luck in selling LS600h. Its definitely priced right at $111k but its getting to be a very crowded segment.

I wouldn't call the LS600h a poor Maybach. There are still a few cars before it.

Here is the pecking order that I see in the car kingdom for flagship sedans.

.Lexus LS460L ($86k+)
.Mercedes S550 ($86k+)
..Lexus LS600h (100k+)
..Jaguar Super V8 (100k+)
..Audi LWB W12 (118k+)
...Maserati Quattroporte ($120k+)
...(upcoming Porsche Panamera 4-door with V10)
.......(upcoming Aston Martin Rapide 4-door with V12)
.......BMW 760Li ($125k+)
.......Mercedes S600 ($130k+)
..........Bentley Flying Spur ($160k+)
.....................Bentley Arnage ($250k+)
.....................................Bentley Azure ($330k+)
................................................Ro lls-Royce Phantom ($330k+)
.................................................. .Maybach 57 ($330k+)
The S550 costs the same as a 460L? jeez you guys have it cheap there... up here, the S550 starts at $119,000. A fully loaded Executive Package LS460L is $122,000.

I agree with you on the LS460. It beats the competitors in price yet the only thing it gives up is style (which is subjective but it's better than "giving up" something else like. oh I don't know, reliability? heh) . But the V12 club is very exclusive so I think Lexus is just gonna say "well, making a V12 is too "easy", we're gonna try something different" and I think one of execs or designer mentioned that in one of the articles (MT or C/D).
Toyota does have a V12 in the Century, Toyota's own uber-luxury sedan for Japanese executives and politicians or whatever royal families. It's only sold in Japan I believe.

Funny thing is a Japanese tuner called "Top Secret" stuffed one of those V12 under the hood of a MkIV Supra, and can be boosted to make over 1000hp. :lol: sick!!

From what I can see, the Lexus LS460L starts at $71K, not $86K, and the Merc S-Class starts at $86K. At least, according to cars.com.

One thing I can't understand is why you can only get AWD with the hybrid system. You'd think that would be something that they would want on the regular car, as well.

I personally think that the Lexus will do well with its lower end models, but I think it might struggle with the higher end, especially in Europe. Lexus seems to be doing well with its hybrid models, but I wonder what kind of person would buy a hybrid top-flight luxury car? It seems a bit contradictory to me. The ultimate in opulence with a dose of frugality.

From what I can see, the Lexus LS460L starts at $71K, not $86K, and the Merc S-Class starts at $86K. At least, according to cars.com.

One thing I can't understand is why you can only get AWD with the hybrid system. You'd think that would be something that they would want on the regular car, as well.

I personally think that the Lexus will do well with its lower end models, but I think it might struggle with the higher end, especially in Europe. Lexus seems to be doing well with its hybrid models, but I wonder what kind of person would buy a hybrid top-flight luxury car? It seems a bit contradictory to me. The ultimate in opulence with a dose of frugality.
Seems like you guys don't bother with reading previous posts.

On page 1 I mentioned the people who can afford the LS600L don't give a flying crap about fuel economy. Anyone who says that "well some buyers might consider fuel economy" are just not rich enough. The whole point of a hybrid system in such an uber-luxury sedan is for TOTAL COMFORT, which results from the lack of noise and vibration that the hybrid system can afford, compared to powered by only a petrol engine.

IMO it makes sense to give 4WD only to the hybrid version, since when you pay so much for the top-of-the-line 600L, you should get everything. Also, the 460L without the power from the hybrid, if 4WD is included, would be way too heavy to be any good. The extra "juice" from the hybrid will get the 4WD system going with relative ease. Maybe Lexus might offer 4WD to the lesser models on a later date.

From what I have read and heard from drivers/owners, the jag does not belong in that category and I highly doubt it would be over the LS.

Goddamn are they ugly also.......

It is the most american vehicle in the lineup, right?

The whole point of the LS600hL is to create V12 power without the emissions. It's not about fuel economy, it's about tail pipe emissions.

Also keep in mind, the EPA changed the fuel economy testing procedures for 2008 models. Expect to see everyone's 2008 FE drop by roughly 15-20%.

Seems like you guys don't bother with reading previous posts.

On page 1 I mentioned the people who can afford the LS600L don't give a flying crap about fuel economy. Anyone who says that "well some buyers might consider fuel economy" are just not rich enough. The whole point of a hybrid system in such an uber-luxury sedan is for TOTAL COMFORT, which results from the lack of noise and vibration that the hybrid system can afford, compared to powered by only a petrol engine.

IMO it makes sense to give 4WD only to the hybrid version, since when you pay so much for the top-of-the-line 600L, you should get everything. Also, the 460L without the power from the hybrid, if 4WD is included, would be way too heavy to be any good. The extra "juice" from the hybrid will get the 4WD system going with relative ease. Maybe Lexus might offer 4WD to the lesser models on a later date.

I must agree with some of the other posts; it seems very difficult to justify the price after you do an honest calculation of value.

It seems as if a lot of the value that Lexus hopes owners will percieve is from the novelty status of having the only V8-powered hybrid luxury sedan in the world. So, yes, that's worth something, I suppose, but is it worth the price premium charged for the hybrid, as well as some of the drawbacks of the hybrid car?

god damn it, it's not always about the money.


Would you buy a Skyline GT-R if you could?
Would you buy a Supra if you could?
Would you buy an NSX? a Charger? A '78 Mustang? DB5? E-Type?

Same logic here. The reasons could be status, style, exclusivity, trying to do something good for the environment, luxury, comfort.

I must agree with some of the other posts; it seems very difficult to justify the price after you do an honest calculation of value.

It seems as if a lot of the value that Lexus hopes owners will percieve is from the novelty status of having the only V8-powered hybrid luxury sedan in the world. So, yes, that's worth something, I suppose, but is it worth the price premium charged for the hybrid, as well as some of the drawbacks of the hybrid car? I agree with what you're saying. However, if we're specifically talking about the Lexus brand, one must understand the minds of Lexus buyers. To them, the brand IS the value, because things such as utmost quality, craftsmanship, comfort, engineering, luxury and reliability (that is synonymous to its sister-brand Toyota) is intrinsically entranched into the Lexus brand and its products as well. When you get a Lexus, you're getting a Toyota vehicle with higher level of luxury, which is nonetheless a well-known status symbol.
Think of it this way, there's a bunch of talks of why people would want to pay so much for a Lexus when you can get a Bimmer (which is a better handling car bar none) for similar prices, or a Caddy for cheaper. Yet you'd still see these buyers not for a second consider a Lexus vehicle, even though the competitors sometimes offer better cars or packages or value in general. To a Lexus owner, money is not really an issue, same goes for "value" that you're talking about. If one cares about value, one would've gotten a similar platform Toyota vehicle without the premium price. To be a Lexus owner is to appreciate the entire experience, which is not only the ownership of the vehicle, but also the whole experience of being part of the Lexus "family", things like going for an oil-change at the dealership, where they're treated like kings and queens (or so I've heard from a friend who owns a Lexus and a Merc, and the differences between the two in terms of customer-relation). What usually wins over Lexus owners first is possibly the ownership of Toyota vehicles previously, and then the Lexus buying and owning experience once they're wealthy enough to "upgrade" their status, and then the on-going positive treatment of being a Lexus customer. It's like a drug, once you're addicted because you "feel like home," you wouldn't want to leave. But same can be said to owners who're loyal to other brands as well. Therefore this is purely subjective at the end of the day.

So to finally answer your question regarding is it worth the premium charged for the hybrid-version (as well as its drawbacks), I guess the short answer to that is maybe, not that a LS600hL owner would even for a second contemplate about such a thing :cool:

god damn it, it's not always about the money.


Would you buy a Skyline GT-R if you could?
Would you buy a Supra if you could?
Would you buy an NSX? a Charger? A '78 Mustang? DB5? E-Type?

Same logic here. The reasons could be status, style, exclusivity, trying to do something good for the environment, luxury, comfort.
Point well made, which is one of the points I was trying to get to previously. A LS600hL owner is usually "money is no object" type of person who wants a Lexus vehicle. Add to that, some of these owners are those who, whatever new technology that comes out, must be one of the first to own it, just because they want it now and want it bad. In marketing terms, these people are called the "pioneers" since at the beginning of a product life cycle, new technology/gadgets ownership requires premium prices, and only a handful of these "pioneers" can and are willing to afford such high prices to be the first ones to own these new "toys." Same can be said for consumers who buy the first few batches of Blu-Ray DVD players, not so much in terms of value but at a real premium price. But without these "pioneers" out there paying high prices buying new toys, you would likely see the prices of technology coming down slower than usual.
Another good example is that of USB Flash memory sticks. Remember just about a year or 2 ago, when something like a 256mb or 512mb would cost about $100? With enough "pioneers" and then "early adaptors" paying premium prices to buy them, the cost of manufacturing and R&D came down dramatically as the margin for manufacturers went up. Now you can get a 4gb for $40 and an 8gb for a little less than double that. Same story for things like regular DVD players and laptops and plasma among other hi-tech gadgets.

Sorry for the long post. Hopefully it ain't too off-topic but it serves to explain and justify the minds of the consumer culture, to better understand why sometimes people would even want to pay so much for certain things that, on the surface don't seemed to be perceived as of better value. Bottomline, it boils down to each person's wants and needs, whether they're of physical, psychological, social, or cultural reasons.

god damn it, it's not always about the money.


Would you buy a Skyline GT-R if you could?
Would you buy a Supra if you could?
Would you buy an NSX? a Charger? A '78 Mustang? DB5? E-Type?

Same logic here. The reasons could be status, style, exclusivity, trying to do something good for the environment, luxury, comfort.

A 1978 Ford Mustang doesn't quite fit in with your list of vehicles. I'm sure it was a typo, but it still made me laugh!

BTW, I owned a 77 Mustang, so yeah, I know how terrible they were!

Jeff

I dunno.. I was just trying to think of some old American car to be less biased haha. Guess that didn't work out too well. Which one is the infamous "Bullit" Mustang then?

I dunno.. I was just trying to think of some old American car to be less biased haha. Guess that didn't work out too well. Which one is the infamous "Bullit" Mustang then?

You're thinking of the 1968 Mustang fastback featured in the film. A few years ago, Ford also re-badged a previous-gen 'stang as Bullitt, but not quite the same.
The 1978 was the Mustang 2.

Jeff

ohhhh it's '68 hahaha.. oops. Off by a decade =P