Smoking Sienna

hey guys, i've got a question about my sisters sienna and i want to see if someone might have some sort of idea before she takes it to the shop. If she lets it sit for a few hours then starts it white smoke comes out the exhaust for a few minutes and then stops. it's also been using a lot of oil, like 2 quarts in 150 miles. I haven't seen any leaks or smoke coming off of the motor so i was just wondering what i could do to figure it out. i don't like the thought of her driving around with two kids in a car without any oil so if anyone could help i would appreciate it greatly. Thanks

white smoke is usually coolant, and burning oil too, looks like a head gasket...

burning oil is blueish

ok, my sister took it to Auto Zone and they hooked it up to a machinie and said they couldn't find anything wrong with it. She also told me that it went more like 500 miles and used 2 quarts. It only smokes when she starts it and stops after a few minutes. The van never runs hot and isn't losing coolant. does that still sound like a head gasket? Thanks

how many miles u got on it?

would it smoke if u got too much OIL?

my sister talked to the toyota people and they said that it was a recalled thing. They said they'll have to replace the block, piston, and some other stuff. It's like a 7000 repair, good thing it's gonna be free i guess :) . the only thing she has to pay for is the rental. thanks for all the helps guys.

Originally posted by Puffy
my sister talked to the toyota people and they said that it was a recalled thing. They said they'll have to replace the block, piston, and some other stuff. It's like a 7000 repair, good thing it's gonna be free i guess :) . the only thing she has to pay for is the rental. thanks for all the helps guys.

Free is :thumbup: , but what is the warrenty fixing? Anything we should be looking out for?

what year is it? i'm burning oil too, want free new engine!!

her van is a 1999. they said they "may cover the repairs under warranty" and that it only happens if the motor is maintained properly... Oh well, she takes it in today i'll let ya'll know how it turns out.

It almost sounds like this would be the infamous sludge issue, but that isn't for high oil consumption. Sludge is when coked oil clogs up the passages and causes oil starvation to the heads and then engine failure.

This sounds different, but it sounds like Toyota is diagnosing and billing it as a sludge replacement. Who knows....

Hope it all works out though! :)

They should pay for your rental as well! :rolleyes:

ya the siennas are garbage, day 1 they were blowing trannys and they sludge up engines large, if any1 is curious if their sienna is sludging just take off yer oil cap and u will see black mud like texture in there, theses engines do not take poor maintenance very well u really need to be on the ball mainting these cars

its starting to look like the valve cover design is faulty, not alowing proper flow of the crankcase fumes, its been happening on all the v6 engines but it seems to really affect the siennas the most, some free advice if u own a sienna sell it its a pile of crap

Originally posted by 1GR-FE
and they sludge up engines large, ...its been happening on all the v6 engines

might be a little off-topic, but I thought the sludge issue was with the 5sfe engines and not the 6 cylinders?

i think "sludge" is toyota's engine problem scape goat

Originally posted by BenG


might be a little off-topic, but I thought the sludge issue was with the 5sfe engines and not the 6 cylinders?

there have been some 5s with sludging but its way more prevelant in the v6 siennas done about 20 sienna engines in the last couple of years, a few camrys too

the 5s sludges more when there is poor maintenance(dont get me wrong it can still happen with proper maintenance)but its much more likley that it will happen with lack of maintence

Originally posted by Oldman
i think "sludge" is toyota's engine problem scape goat


Ummmmm... The problem may be overstated, but it's very, very real. I've seen a 4-cyl (a 97 or 98 model) with cake frosting thick sludge under the valve cover. Here's a link to a site put up by a regular at the Camryman board. The sludgy one is bad enough, but mild at least compared to the 4-cyl I saw. Check this out:

http://www.legacytuning.com/glok/sludgedmotor/

Originally posted by 1GR-FE
ya the siennas are garbage, day 1 they were blowing trannys and they sludge up engines large, if any1 is curious if their sienna is sludging just take off yer oil cap and u will see black mud like texture in there, theses engines do not take poor maintenance very well u really need to be on the ball mainting these cars

its starting to look like the valve cover design is faulty, not alowing proper flow of the crankcase fumes, its been happening on all the v6 engines but it seems to really affect the siennas the most, some free advice if u own a sienna sell it its a pile of crap '

the sienna isnt crap. Do u own one? :o

Originally posted by 1GR-FE
if any1 is curious if their sienna is sludging just take off yer oil cap and u will see black mud like texture in there, theses engines do not take poor maintenance very well u really need to be on the ball mainting these cars

I don't dispute that you need to be on the ball with maintenance on this, or any car, but with all due respect, you're wrong about the "black mud like texture" thing.

If you look in the filler cap of any 1MZ-FE engine, even a brand new one, you'll see the same thing. It's some sort of foam rubber coating that Toyota puts on top of the baffle that sits between the oil filler opening and the hardware at the end of the cams. I suspect it's there to catch any huge pieces of crap that accidentally get in the oil filler opening. On a spotless 1MZ, like mine, it's still black colored foam, but it you take a paper towel and press it into the "foam rubber," you'll see clean oil soaking into the paper.

Originally posted by 2000CamryLEV6
'

the sienna isnt crap. Do u own one? :o

i dont own one and i would never own one and i wouldnt recommend one to my worst enemy, they are a very poorly made vehicle, toyotas quality has gone down quite a bit starting in 98 their association with GM isnt helping any

the last good car toyota made in my opinion was the 96 camry and the 97 corolla

by the way i was commenting from a mechanical standpoint people may like them for their features, esthetics etc.. but mechanically they are crap

Originally posted by ekpolk


I don't dispute that you need to be on the ball with maintenance on this, or any car, but with all due respect, you're wrong about the "black mud like texture" thing.

If you look in the filler cap of any 1MZ-FE engine, even a brand new one, you'll see the same thing. It's some sort of foam rubber coating that Toyota puts on top of the baffle that sits between the oil filler opening and the hardware at the end of the cams. I suspect it's there to catch any huge pieces of crap that accidentally get in the oil filler opening. On a spotless 1MZ, like mine, it's still black colored foam, but it you take a paper towel and press it into the "foam rubber," you'll see clean oil soaking into the paper.

got some bad news for u dude there is no black foam rubber coating in the valve covers, and i was putting the mud like texture in laymens terms, its actually sludged up oil, just so u know ive replaced a ton of these engines and if u think the valve cover is bad u should see the oil pans, i honestly dont know what u have in yer valve cover but rest assured there is no foam or rubber in the valve covers( rubber hardens and cracks when submerged in oil over time and foam would just deteriorate in oil over time)

Why don't you make up your mind buddy!:rolleyes:

First you say "im a tech for a toyota dealer and they make the best cars in the world"

Now your all "toyotas quality has gone down quite a bit starting in 98 their association with GM isnt helping any
the last good car toyota made in my opinion was the 96 camry and the 97 corolla"

What exactly is this proclamation based on?? You have just insulted 40% of the people on this site with that statement, including me. I have a 2001 Corolla and I would like to know what is so bad about it "from a purely mechanical standpoint"?? I know dozens of people on the Corolla Boards with 100,000+ miles on their 98+ Corollas with not one problem...I'm starting to believe your little friend:
"ATTENTION EVERYONE!!!

don't listen to 1GR-FE, yes he works in a toyota dealer, but he does PDI all day. he doesn't know anything about cars other than putting on mud flaps and hood protectors.
how do i know about this? i work with this guy (unfortunately).
so any comment that he makes is basically bull sh1t."

So what gives??
:mad:

Originally posted by 1GR-FE


got some bad news for u dude there is no black foam rubber coating in the valve covers, and i was putting the mud like texture in laymens terms, its actually sludged up oil, just so u know ive replaced a ton of these engines and if u think the valve cover is bad u should see the oil pans, i honestly dont know what u have in yer valve cover but rest assured there is no foam or rubber in the valve covers( rubber hardens and cracks when submerged in oil over time and foam would just deteriorate in oil over time)

Well, whatever it is, rubber, silicone, or what-have-you, it is a coating that was put there by Toyota for some reason. It seems to have a little thickness and spring to it, so I know it's not just paint or enamel. I've owned two 1MZ powered vehicles now, a 2001 Highlander and my present 2003 Camry. The Highlander had about 15 miles on it at delivery and the Camry, only 11. I carefully inspected each vehicle before I "signed for it" (dealer folks love waiting an hour for me to inspect when all they want is a signature and their $). I inspect each filler opening, including the oil, and this coating was present in each. In the Camry, the coating is still there unchanged after almost four months and 11,000 miles. Tonight I'll go out and dab it with a paper towel and post a pic so you can see for yourself what I'm talking about.

I'm pretty well sure that we all can agree that even if the 1MZ has developed a reputation for dirtying itself, it can't sludge up in less than 20 driving miles while making the trip from the factory to the dealer. It almost goes without saying, but the oil in each vehicle was pretty much clear as water upon delivery inspection.

I'm not saying that you're out to lunch either, btw. I have seen a badly sludged 1MZ where loads of goo had made it all the way to the oil filler. A good friend of mine (smart guy, but alas, a car idiot) bought an off-lease ES-300 on impulse, with no inspection. He brought it to me so we could look it over after the fact. It's oil was jet black, and the trans fluid was almost as bad and had visible metallic debris in it! In the oil filler, using your finger, you could scoop out a little blob of sludge that looked like dull black grease. I assume that the vapor of oxidized oil must have condensed up there, because I can't imagine how else it got there, but there it was. In this case, the goop totally covered the coating I'm talking about.

Finally, since you work at a Toyota place, there must be plenty of new 1MZs around. Please go open one's oil filler, and then come back and describe what you saw.

Originally posted by 1GR-FE


got some bad news for u dude there is no black foam rubber coating in the valve covers, and i was putting the mud like texture in laymens terms, its actually sludged up oil, just so u know ive replaced a ton of these engines and if u think the valve cover is bad u should see the oil pans, i honestly dont know what u have in yer valve cover but rest assured there is no foam or rubber in the valve covers( rubber hardens and cracks when submerged in oil over time and foam would just deteriorate in oil over time)

I promised pictures, so here we go. This car is a 2003 LE VVT-i V-6:

OK, dude, this would be the "mud like texture" you were talking about:
http://members.cox.net/ekpolk3/OIL%20FILLER/MISC%2008-04-03%20029.jpg
This car is exactly four months old, and it looked this way the day I took it, with 11 miles on it!!! Newsflash: this ain't sludge. It's a coating put there, not by me, not by gremlins, but by TOYOTA!

In case that's not enough, I rubbed a paper towel around hard against this rubbery coating (whatever it's really made of), being careful to leave no pieces of paper. Like this:
http://members.cox.net/ekpolk3/OIL%20FILLER/MISC%2008-04-03%20031.jpg

Here's what that paper towel looked like when it came out:
http://members.cox.net/ekpolk3/OIL%20FILLER/MISC%2008-04-03%20043.jpg
Sorry, but I'm still not seeing the sludge. . .

And last, for good measure, I rubbed my index finger around in there, carefully scraping my nail against the rubbery coating. All I got on me was clean oil, see:
http://members.cox.net/ekpolk3/OIL%20FILLER/MISC%2008-04-03%20036.jpg

Are you going to tell me that in a four-month old car, that's already had four oil & filter changes (OK, it has gone 11,000 miles now) that I've got a sludge motor??? I think I now understand why you don't want to tell what dealership you work for. . .

:lol: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/stevtecv6/smilies/owned.gif

I checked under the oil filler cap of our 2002 Highlander over the weekend and it's exactly as ekpolk described. Anyways, I'm not too worried about sludging. Our 2002 supposedly has "the fix", we do regular changes at 3000-4000 mile intervals, and even if it does sludge up we have maintenance receipts and it's covered by Toyota up to like 100k or whatever.

Originally posted by Chris Corolla S
Why don't you make up your mind buddy!:rolleyes:

First you say "im a tech for a toyota dealer and they make the best cars in the world"

Now your all "toyotas quality has gone down quite a bit starting in 98 their association with GM isnt helping any
the last good car toyota made in my opinion was the 96 camry and the 97 corolla"

What exactly is this proclamation based on?? You have just insulted 40% of the people on this site with that statement, including me. I have a 2001 Corolla and I would like to know what is so bad about it "from a purely mechanical standpoint"?? I know dozens of people on the Corolla Boards with 100,000+ miles on their 98+ Corollas with not one problem...I'm starting to believe your little friend:
"ATTENTION EVERYONE!!!

don't listen to 1GR-FE, yes he works in a toyota dealer, but he does PDI all day. he doesn't know anything about cars other than putting on mud flaps and hood protectors.
how do i know about this? i work with this guy (unfortunately).
so any comment that he makes is basically bull sh1t."

So what gives??
:mad:

ok let me clarify myself they do make the best cars in the world but thats comparing them to the rest of the maufacturers out there(so thats kinda of meaning the best of the bunch), ive worked for toyota for 9 years now and trust me when i say that their quality has declined ive seen it day in and day out(toyota is now taking on the GM strategy, as in build the cars and let the customers do the R&D for us), to be totally honest im sorry if u are offended by my statements but im basing what i say on day in and day out experiences it was less then a month when i saw my first 98 style corolla come in for a problem no start under cooler ambient temps which turned out to be injectors(by the way when ur warrenty runs out wait till u see the price of these things) then they had probs with the spark plugs and ill just keep going waterpump leaks, ingnition coil failures, timing chain tensioners, timing chain covers leaking, serpentine belt tensioners, ecu problems, auto tranny probs, starters, (when VVT-i equipped> VVT-i actuators) engine blocks being so porous that coolant actually seeps thru the blocks, fuel pressure regulators, i could keep going but i think ive made a point, and these problems arent random once in a blue moon problems they can happen quite frequently

let me say this also u dont need to get offended by what i say first off its my opinion and i like the way the new corollas look too but i wouldnt buy one cuz i know what they are like, i like the way the new 04 siennas look and drive but ill reserve judgement on them till there is more of them out there that have been real world proven

by the way if u are starting to believe my little friend go ahead, ill just remeber not to reply to a question that u have about yer corolla cuz all i do is PDIs

EKPOLK

those were some funny pics im glad u showed them to me, anyways im off work today and i will check out what u are saying tomorrow, who knows u could be right ive never looked that closely, btw u didnt need to do the whole paper towel thing cuz of course its gonna have oil on it :D

Originally posted by 1GR-FE

ok let me clarify myself they do make the best cars in the world but thats comparing them to the rest of the maufacturers out there(so thats kinda of meaning the best of the bunch), ive worked for toyota for 9 years now and trust me when i say that their quality has declined ive seen it day in and day out(toyota is now taking on the GM strategy, as in build the cars and let the customers do the R&D for us), to be totally honest im sorry if u are offended by my statements but im basing what i say on day in and day out experiences it was less then a month when i saw my first 98 style corolla come in for a problem no start under cooler ambient temps which turned out to be injectors(by the way when ur warrenty runs out wait till u see the price of these things) then they had probs with the spark plugs and ill just keep going.... i could keep going but i think ive made a point, and these problems arent random once in a blue moon problems they can happen quite frequently

let me say this also u dont need to get offended by what i say first off its my opinion and i like the way the new corollas look too but i wouldnt buy one cuz i know what they are like, i like the way the new 04 siennas look and drive but ill reserve judgement on them till there is more of them out there that have been real world proven

by the way if u are starting to believe my little friend go ahead, ill just remeber not to reply to a question that u have about yer corolla cuz all i do is PDIs

I have heard of some of these problems ocurring. That fact of the matter is that the Corolla has a very high reliablility rating from consumer reports. Of course you can rattle off a laundry list of things that you have seen needing to be fixed on a Corolla, that doesn't mean that all Corollas are prone to these problems. I have 45000 miles on mine with not one problem. I remain confident in the Number 3 car manufactuer's product which is the best selling car of all time.

As for being offended, I am not. The 98-02 Corolla is far superior to the previous Corollas in every way, getting better gas mileage and more performance with equal reliability.
As for your sarcastic comment about not responding to my car questions, I could care less. On an online forum, the burden of proof is on you to prove your reliability in terms of car advice. So far, I haven't seen one post of yours supporting your claim of being a viable source of information regarding Toyotas. Hence, your precious advice is a poor barganing chip.

Toyota Nation welcomes all enthusiasts regardless of knowledge, and since you have at least maintained civility, which some people cannot, you are not a total right-off.
In the future refraining from making statements like:
"got some bad news for u dude there is no black foam rubber coating in the valve covers"
without actually knowing wtf you are talking about will go a long way towards avoiding pointless arguments like this one. Please try and pretend that you have at least changed the oil on a Sienna before maiking statements like: "some free advice if u own a sienna sell it its a pile of crap".
I hope you take this oportunity to realize that being a Toyota-Tech doesn't mean you know everything there is to know about Toyotas:thumbup: ;)

Originally posted by Chris Corolla S


I have heard of some of these problems ocurring. That fact of the matter is that the Corolla has a very high reliablility rating from consumer reports. Of course you can rattle off a laundry list of things that you have seen needing to be fixed on a Corolla, that doesn't mean that all Corollas are prone to these problems. I have 45000 miles on mine with not one problem. I remain confident in the Number 3 car manufactuer's product which is the best selling car of all time.

As for being offended, I am not. The 98-02 Corolla is far superior to the previous Corollas in every way, getting better gas mileage and more performance with equal reliability.
As for your sarcastic comment about not responding to my car questions, I could care less. On an online forum, the burden of proof is on you to prove your reliability in terms of car advice. So far, I haven't seen one post of yours supporting your claim of being a viable source of information regarding Toyotas. Hence, your precious advice is a poor barganing chip.

Toyota Nation welcomes all enthusiasts regardless of knowledge, and since you have at least maintained civility, which some people cannot, you are not a total right-off.
In the future refraining from making statements like:
"got some bad news for u dude there is no black foam rubber coating in the valve covers"
without actually knowing wtf you are talking about will go a long way towards avoiding pointless arguments like this one. Please try and pretend that you have at least changed the oil on a Sienna before maiking statements like: "some free advice if u own a sienna sell it its a pile of crap".
I hope you take this oportunity to realize that being a Toyota-Tech doesn't mean you know everything there is to know about Toyotas:thumbup: ;)

i dont need to prove anything to anyone i came on here to hopefully help out some people on here, u dont want to listen to me or to take any advice from me then thats cool too

as far as posting a viable source of information i cant do that i could get into alot of trouble posting up campaigns and bulletins and showing u webpages that are for toyota employees, plus u can go on the internet and look up bulletins and such, no need to rely on me, just so u know we as in toyota techs have quite the love hate relationship with the newer corollas cuz of their problems it basically gives us work to do sometimes its good work and sometimes its not, i hate to burst ur bubble but just cuz YOU have not seen these problems that doesnt mean they dont exist, just as i have never seen a nuclear missile doesnt mean it doesnt exist

you are right about me not knowing everything about toyotas( i never proclaimed to know everything), already i am questioning myself as to this material in the valve covers, mainly cuz i have never looked at them that in depth to see if it is there, which i will do tomorrow, and if im wrong i will come on here and say im wrong(i also want to learn more from people on here cuz there are guys that know more about toyotas then me and i know nothing about different engine swaps and hybrid motors etc..)

also i drive a 92 honda civic and i think its a piece of crap too, ive worked on all makes and models and i would take a corolla over a protege(just an example) any day cuz as i have said out of the other manufacturers toyota is the best, that doesnt mean that im just gonna live by that blanket statement that toyota is the best, that would be burying my head in the sand, toyota isnt perfect and they dont build perfect vehicles

congrats on not having any probs with yer corolla im not gonna say u are the only 1 cuz that wouldnt be truthful, but the probs ive stated are are real common probs, if u dont believe me go to yer local dealer and ask 1 of the techs

i also realize u love yer car and think its great, as do other owners of siennas etc.. but i was stating my opinions on the vehicles from a mechanical standpoint, to me as far as reliability and costs i feel that the better corolla is the 97 compared to the 98, dont get offended by this because this is not a fact but an opinion based on my experience

oh ya and just so u know i did an oil change on a sienna yesterday :p (no sludge buildup tho)

Hey if I am in a bubble then by all means burst it.
If there are real mechanical problems with my car/engine I want to know what to look out for. I do all my own maintenance so far and if there is anything I can do to prevent this stuff let me know.

I took your advise and looked up any Service Bulletins and Recalls for my car. Here is what I found:
http://www.alldata.com/TSB/59/015981AG.html
Everything here is extremley minor and nothing that you mentioned is included. Perhaps you can point me to a better site for finding out this information?

That link should be added to the 'ultimate sticky' in the tech section!!

Originally posted by Chris Corolla S
Hey if I am in a bubble then by all means burst it.
If there are real mechanical problems with my car/engine I want to know what to look out for. I do all my own maintenance so far and if there is anything I can do to prevent this stuff let me know.

I took your advise and looked up any Service Bulletins and Recalls for my car. Here is what I found:
http://www.alldata.com/TSB/59/015981AG.html
Everything here is extremley minor and nothing that you mentioned is included. Perhaps you can point me to a better site for finding out this information?

ok as i said before i cant give u a place to look this stuff up(its a password protected site for employees of Toyota only), if u want i can give u bulletin numbers and u can talk to yer dealer to see if they know of these bulletins, im sure the bulletins will be the same regardless as to wether its canadian or american, im gonna skip giving u auto tranny bulletins as there are alot of them(there are 13 relevant ones in total), plus im not gonna go thru them all there are alot so ill just give u a few

ref# EE-99-005 bulletin# 0745 ENGINE "NO-START" UNDER COLD AMBIENT TEMPERATURES
ref#EE- 03-003 bulletin# 1233 M.I.L. "ON" DTC P1349 - VVTI ACTUATOR
ref# EM- 02-005 bulletin# 1102 M.I.L. "ON" P0136 AND P0420

check them out at yer dealer, one other thing to note just because there is no TSB on some problems doesnt mean that they arent there, there is no TSB on the 98 and up style waterpumps but almost every single 1 leaks, they even changed the design of the waterpump to "fix" the problem, if u were curious of this too go to yer local dealer ask them about the waterpump and u can even go into parts and see that the PN has superceeded

after this post im not gonna be posting up any more details(if u need to know about specific TSBs go to yer dealer), if u want to believe me or not its yer choice, as ive said i came on here to help and give my opinions on cars wether the opinions are good or bad, no1 has to listen to a word i say, just trying to be helpful, if u want, read what i have to say on the tech aspects of my posts and disregard my opinions on everything else

Originally posted by 1GR-FE


i dont own one and i would never own one and i wouldnt recommend one to my worst enemy, they are a very poorly made vehicle, toyotas quality has gone down quite a bit starting in 98 their association with GM isnt helping any

the last good car toyota made in my opinion was the 96 camry and the 97 corolla

by the way i was commenting from a mechanical standpoint people may like them for their features, esthetics etc.. but mechanically they are crap

you've got to be dreaming...warranty and repair costs have never been lower. Their engines are bullet proof, just get an oil change ever 5 or 6 k and you're fine. Doesn't seem to difficult to me.

Originally posted by flow


you've got to be dreaming...warranty and repair costs have never been lower. Their engines are bullet proof, just get an oil change ever 5 or 6 k and you're fine. Doesn't seem to difficult to me.

they are good motors, bulletproof uh no, their quality has declined in the last few years thats what i am saying

as far as warranty any1 that bought a toyota(in canada) after 97 got shafted on warranty alot of the things that were covered pre 97 vehicles were no longer covered i.e. expensive sensors MAF, injectors etc..

repair costs lower? we just bumped up our door rate to $89 per hour the parts arent too bad as far as prices(mazda is pretty bad for that) but just wait untill u run into some problem with a sensor it isnt gonna be cheap

ok i just checked a 98 sienna and there is no foam or rubber in the valve cover its black there due to the oil but its not soft and spongy its metal, so im not sure what u have on yer sienna but it isnt on the one i just checked, ill check a few more but as i thought before there isnt anything there except metal

Originally posted by 1GR-FE
ok i just checked a 98 sienna and there is no foam or rubber in the valve cover its black there due to the oil but its not soft and spongy its metal, so im not sure what u have on yer sienna but it isnt on the one i just checked, ill check a few more but as i thought before there isnt anything there except metal

Well, like I said, you need to check a new one. To recap, I've owned both 2001 and 2003 model year Toyotas with 1MZ engines, and the coating is, and was, there from the day of delivery. In fact, it's sufficiently porous that when you scrape across it while pushing down, with something hard (like your finger nail), fresh oil squeezes out of it, as if it were a very thin layer of sponge (no, no, I'm not saying it IS sponge, it's just somewhat like it). SteVTEC, and others who've commented have seen the same thing, so I doubt we're all hallucinating.

In one of your earlier posts, you said I didn't need to do the paper towel demo that I included in that series of photos. I think it was very helpful. It illustrated that there is absolutely no sludge, oxidized oil, dirt, or whatever you want to call it in my engine. If you really have taken apart a sludge motor, then you know how very, very filthy they are inside. If my engine had been that way, then that paper towel would have been BLACK after being smeared around inside my oil filler. And if there WAS bare metal down there, you'd have seen it. In the case of my unfortunate friend, who I mentioned in an earlier post, one swipe of my finger in his 1MZ's oil filler left my finger covered with oily grime.

Look, we can puff about this all week. You saw the photo I posted of my oil filler. Are you seriously suggesting that what you and I saw there is a foreign substance? If so, I want you the Toyota expert, to tell us what it is. Look, and again with all due respect, you're just busted on this one. No one expects even a long-time dealer service guy to know everything, and you'll maintain a lot more credibility if you just admit you made an incorrect call on this. If you don't, you're just going to leave the impression on a lot of us that you can't or won't see the obvious.

I'm not trying to be a prick about this. I'll readily admit that I don't know about 1998 models, I've never owned one, or looked at one in detail. But I do know what's there in the current version of the 1MZ. So I renew my challenge to you: go out and look at a NEW 1MZ on the lot at your dealership (there must be at least two dozen between the Camrys, Highlanders, and Avalons), look in the oil filler of one of these, feel around in there with your finger, and then come back and tell us what you observed.

there is a 01 sienna sitting in the bay right next to me and its the same thing yes its black in there, thats cuz of the oil and i pressed in there with a screw driver and my finger and its metal there is no coating in all of the ones ive checked so far, ive asked some of the other guys if they have seen anything like this and they have said the same thing no its metal, i dont profess to know all about toyotas never will even after i work in this trade the rest of my life(no1 can know everything), im finished replying to this thread if u guys dont believe what im saying i could care less im not gonna keep coming on here and repeating myself, u dont want any help im not gonna waste my time offering it, so far ive been wasting my time trying to prove myself on this site and im not gonna bother anymore ill browse thru the forums and if some1s asking for help ill offer my opinion

what i honestly think is in yer valve cover is oil buildup/sludge the ones i just checked have a slight bit of it in every1, if u take a screwdriver and scrape inside the valve cover and u see bare metal then u have sludge/oil buildup

okay a few things...
WTF would there be a spongy undercoating like thingy on the valve cover??? have you ever smelt rubber and oil burn? well it smells like ass and Toyota would never put something like that on cause it would be useless and a waste of money

second toyota hasn't been associated with GM since only 98, they go back close to 20yrs, GM owns 70%of Toyota North AMerican shares therefore it has really no relevence in the quality, GM jus makes money off what toyota sells... It's like you going out and buying 20million stocks of Toyota, thats it

next the sienna is a good vehicle, but not a minivan, thats what is wrong with it, Honda has the odysessy which is the best minivan in the world where as the sienna missed all the key features of a minivan, it's just a higher, longer slightly bigger Corolla and that's why they didn't sell


looK at the Sienna today, nothing can compete, it's the wickedest minivan in the world and if i could afford 60g's i'd get one in a second

*********I've removed this post. It's stinging content was based upon a mutual misuderstanding, which has been resolved, to everyone's satisfaction as far as I can tell. No need to leave this here at this point. ********************

ok i just checked a 03 solara and geez u are right, ive never bothered to look into the valve cover when these things are brand new ive only seen them when they have a few clicks on them and never really examined them closely, the ones ive checked arent spongy but the new one is, what ever is in there i dont know what it is and im guessing when the vehicle puts some mileage on it, it hardens this stuff and it becomes oil soaked causing it to breakdown, which is why the older 1s ive checked scrape off like its caked on oil

so u were right and i can admit it i was wrong, guess i learned something today, now im curious as to what the purpose of that material in there is

Originally posted by 1GR-FE
ok i just checked a 03 solara and geez u are right, ive never bothered to look into the valve cover when these things are brand new ive only seen them when they have a few clicks on them and never really examined them closely, the ones ive checked arent spongy but the new one is, what ever is in there i dont know what it is and im guessing when the vehicle puts some mileage on it, it hardens this stuff and it becomes oil soaked causing it to breakdown, which is why the older 1s ive checked scrape off like its caked on oil

so u were right and i can admit it i was wrong, guess i learned something today, now im curious as to what the purpose of that material in there is

My apologies then for being so harsh. I was just frustrated since I know what I was seeing with my own two eyes. Since you've got the access there at a Toyota, I'd be interested in hearing whether you can find out from someone what the thin spongy layer is there for. As I said earlier, my speculation, and it's only that, is that it would catch big pieces of crud that accidentally fell in (but so would the oil filter...).

no prob i was gettin pissed too cuz everytime ive seen them this sponge or whatever it is has deteriorated so i was wondering wtf u were going on about and after yer last post i was thinking what is this guy talking about so i went to the showroom and checked out a brand new 1 then i saw what u were talking about i was like shit this guy is right, so i already told a few guys in the shop that we were having this battle and they all agreed with me then after i checked i went around and told them that u were right so they all had to go and check it out for themselves cuz they didnt believe it either, so now im trying to figure out what the hell it is there for, none of the 4 bangers have it it just metal no coating, i cant even begin to think of why they put it there, i know a few guys that work at TCI so im gonna have to ask them if they know what its there for

so as far as u originally posted u were right if u take off the oil cap u will see the crap u were talking about and when i was talking about sludge we are talking about 2 very difffrent things, i didnt have a visual of what u were talking about so i thought u were just confusing it with sludge, trust me when i say u can see when there is sludge buildup its very noticable, its nothing like this mystery sponge that is there, its very thick and caked on

so i guess i should say thanks for skoolin me :D

1GR-FE: I liked that response:) :thumbup:

Originally posted by Chris Corolla S
1GR-FE: I liked that response:) :thumbup:

I agree. An interesting misunderstanding, which appears to be resolved. It's really a sad state of affairs that a company of Toyota's reputation allowed itself to make hundreds of thousands of engines that, at least in earlier versions, were so prone to sludge up, that a Toyota tech naturally expects it to be there.

Now we can get back to enjoying trading car info. And btw, I pulled that last zinger of mine, felt that was appropriate under the circumstances. :)

I just wanted to thank all the posters in this thread for maintaining their cool and showing that great discussions can be had provided everybody is mature and presents their case in effective ways aswell and respecting each others views. :thumbup:

OK Puffy you can come out now.

What is wrong with the van?

its kinda funny that i got involved with this thread, as i am now doing a engine on a 01 camry V6, im gonna take some pics of what the sludge looks like, u guys wont believe how bad this one is ill prob take the pics tomorrow and post them

btw i asked one of the guys i know at TCI and he told me he couldnt find out what the sponge is there for, he guessed it had something to do with noise?? i dont see what that would do, i doubt thats why its there, but who knows

i also have brand new valve covers that i ordered for the camry and in the new valve covers the sponge is still there, so its there for some reason

Just curious, because I'll never let my engine get that way (I hope), but what do you have to do to clean one of these engines out after it sludges up. I suspect it takes a little more than a can of motor flush and five minutes of idling. . .

i forgot to bring my cam to work today so ill do it monday

the funny thing about toyota is they dont pay under warranty to clean out the engine they only pay for the rebuild(completley retarded) so we either send out the heads(which the customer pays for) or put it back dirty(there is only so much we can clean out) and the block still has sludge buildup so after the rebuid is done we put a liter or two of tranny fluid in the motor and run it for a while drain out the oil and refill with another liter of tranny fluid then have the customer come back in 1000k for another oil change