A Canadian Buying in the US

I live in the Yukon Territory in Canada. With our dollar now being the same as the US dollar - there is still a $9000 gap in the difference between what my local dealer will charge for a Camry XLE and the same vehicle that I priced out online at a Seattle dealer.
Does anyone know whether it is possible for a Canadian to go across the border and purchase a brand new Toyota and bring the car back into Canada?
Do duties cancel any or a large part of the price differential?
Will the local dealer honor the new car warranty?
Any insights that those of you who know about such things will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

John

I live in the Yukon Territory in Canada. With our dollar now being the same as the US dollar - there is still a $9000 gap in the difference between what my local dealer will charge for a Camry XLE and the same vehicle that I priced out online at a Seattle dealer.
Does anyone know whether it is possible for a Canadian to go across the border and purchase a brand new Toyota and bring the car back into Canada?
Do duties cancel any or a large part of the price differential?
Will the local dealer honor the new car warranty?
Any insights that those of you who know about such things will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

John

1. Yes you can buy from the States and import it. However, you will have to phone around as many dealers will not sell to Canadians

2. You pay 6.1% duty if the car is made outside of North America. GST is paid at the border.

3. Toyota Canada will honour the warranty. It might take a little longer to do the paperwork if there is a warranty claim but they do honour it

See www.riv.ca for more information

There was a good article on this in the Toronto Star on Saturday.

http://www.wheels.ca/newsFeatures/article/31673

1. Yes you can buy from the States and import it. However, you will have to phone around as many dealers will not sell to Canadians

2. You pay 6.1% duty if the car is made outside of North America. GST is paid at the border.

3. Toyota Canada will honour the warranty. It might take a little longer to do the paperwork if there is a warranty claim but they do honour it

See www.riv.ca (http://www.riv.ca) for more information

Toyota's dealer agreement prohibits Toyota dealers from selling outside of their territory. Dealers who do, risk significant fines, including decreased allotment and coupled with other violations could lose their franchise. Some choose to risk it , but most won't.

Fan

Thanks for those responses gentlemen. The overall impression that I get is that it's a pretty difficult thing to do - bringing a car back from the US to Canada. So I'm just going to sit tight and hope that in the next few weeks our dollar remains high and that public pressure will result in a convergence of prices in the 2 countries.
There has been a lot of squawking this past week about why the differential in just about anything that's sold in Canada and the US is so great. For the moment, importing a Camry sounds like a pretty risky thing to do - even if there is $9000 waiting to be saved.

Just wait a little longer, apparently there will be something very shortly(Oct 1) to help. Expect a big announcement from BMW about pricing/incentives, and then the other dealers will have to follow suit. Toyota has promised to do something....we just don't know what yet.

Brainstorm!
How about importing a late model used car from the US?
I see that there are a lot of 2007 Camry XLE's listed in the US - example

http://www.motortrend.com/used_cars/14/2007/toyota/camry/xle/sedans/washington/seattle/214189699/113/

could I bring one of these back without hassles, paperwork and most importantly - duties?
And again, would Toyota Canada - meaning my local dealer - honor the warranty?

Thanks

John

Although, high end car makers like Porsche, BMW and Audi announced a 15% price drop across their line-up in order to adjust to the dollar value, more people need to start doing that since companies like Toyota, Honda and Nissan etc. are royally ripping off the customers in Canada using the typical one-liner "consumer will pay what the market will bare" (I know a lot of people who are bringing cars in from US and after taxes, duty, registeration, inspection etc., it still worked out to be several thousands cheaper) especially after Canadian dollar became equal to the US dollars.

Brainstorm!
How about importing a late model used car from the US?
I see that there are a lot of 2007 Camry XLE's listed in the US - example

http://www.motortrend.com/used_cars/14/2007/toyota/camry/xle/sedans/washington/seattle/214189699/113/

could I bring one of these back without hassles, paperwork and most importantly - duties?
And again, would Toyota Canada - meaning my local dealer - honor the warranty?

Thanks

John

Nope. You go through the same paperwork.

You need a Manufacturer's Letter of Recall, title, and one other sheet of paper (I forget) before crossing the border. Again, please visit that site I gave you, it's the Registrar's office for goodness sake! It'll tell you everything you need to know on how to import a car (new or used) to Canada.

Just wait a little longer, apparently there will be something very shortly(Oct 1) to help. Expect a big announcement from BMW about pricing/incentives, and then the other dealers will have to follow suit. Toyota has promised to do something....we just don't know what yet.

lol.. I doubt it.

Toyota BC dealers have strict one-price policies. Nobody is allowed to bargain at all. We all pay MSRP.

Also, last time when we bought Toyotas (our 2 Corollas and the Camry), we got free stuff from the dealers.

When I bought Prius (this is when Access Toyota was around), we got nothing. Not even a "thanks for buying your 3rd car from us" card.

lol.. I doubt it.

Toyota BC dealers have strict one-price policies. Nobody is allowed to bargain at all. We all pay MSRP.

Also, last time when we bought Toyotas (our 2 Corollas and the Camry), we got free stuff from the dealers.

When I bought Prius (this is when Access Toyota was around), we got nothing. Not even a "thanks for buying your 3rd car from us" card.

Hi Tideland,
Sorry but the Access Toyota program including it's monthly process of dealers voting to have a single MSRP price (ie the "one-price" you referenced) is gone and has been since at least 2005.

BC was a tight vehicle supply market for Toyota. Besides that - few dealers will negotiate on some models when they're in short supply - of feel that you'll buy regardless. Same issue with other short supply vehicles (like FJ for example).

I guess you can't fault Toyota for charging what the market will bear. Still, although I haven't kept track, I'm sure that as our dollar began it's long decline toward the 62¢ level, the cost of Toyotas increased in tandem with the dollar's fall. It just pisses me off no end that when the conditions are reversed to the extent that we have dollar parity, we here in Canada do not see a cent of that reflected in the price of our vehicles from Toyota.
You can bet though that if we were to slip from the present parity back to something like 80¢ over the next couple of years, Toyota would be in there like a dirty sock racheting up the price of its vehicles in Canada. In essence, we get all of the pain and none of the gain from these currency movements.
Silver 04 Rollas had it right when he said

companies like Toyota, Honda and Nissan etc. are royally ripping off the customers in Canada using the typical one-liner "consumer will pay what the market will bear"

I'm very disappointed that a firm of Toyota's stature doesn't pass along the currency benefits to their Canadian customers. My intended purchase of a Camry XLE V6 is definitely off for the time being.

Hi Tideland,
Sorry but the Access Toyota program including it's monthly process of dealers voting to have a single MSRP price (ie the "one-price" you referenced) is gone and has been since at least 2005.

BC was a tight vehicle supply market for Toyota. Besides that - few dealers will negotiate on some models when they're in short supply - of feel that you'll buy regardless. Same issue with other short supply vehicles (like FJ for example).

I know that... BUT in BC, that is NOT the case. Seriously, I'm kinda annoyed when I see people from Ontario and Alberta getting great discounts as here, we don't get a single thing, not even a thank you gift (at least at my dealer) ever since Access Toyota started in 2002 (and ended in 2005).

That doesn't apply to hot sellers. It applies to every single Toyota model regardless of whether it's selling or not. It's called collusion. (don't believe me? there's a Toyota BC dealer site.. look that up).

Don't forget, on cars like the Prius, they make $2k each. On the Sequoia, the profit margin is up to $5k and that's based on 2005 prices (don't know what the margins are for 2007/08). Of course they won't budge if they can convince you that you can't. And they will because they colluded so you as the consumer have no choice because every dealer will tell you the same thing.

And they will because they colluded so you as the consumer have no choice because every dealer will tell you the same thing.

Wow, that sucks, Tideland. In the US, that would be a major antitrust lawsuit. Any attorney general down here would crack down on price-fixing in a heartbeat, regardless of who does it (dealer or manufacturer).

c

Well, as of this morning, it appears that we sheeplike Canadians are finally getting off our fat complacent behinds. Hopefully this will result in some measure of fairness in the Canadian automotive marketplace.

http://www.globeinvestor.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070926.wcarsuit0926/GIStory/

Wow, that sucks, Tideland. In the US, that would be a major antitrust lawsuit. Any attorney general down here would crack down on price-fixing in a heartbeat, regardless of who does it (dealer or manufacturer).

c

Yes it does especially when you hear about your fellow Canadians getting great deals, then it really bites.

Sadly though, Toyota sales are still very strong at least in the Lower Mainland so people apparently are willing to pay MSRP. Nothing wrong with that since we paid MSRP for the Prius. It's just knowing that you're not being treated fairly compared to other provinces.

I remember for each of our previous Toyota, we got a nice gift as a way of saying thanks. A Toyota mug here, a Toyota pin there. It's small but it made you feel appreciated and made you feel like doing business with them again.

After buying the Prius, I don't think I will go back. We bought 3 Toyotas from them and even if I bring in the car for any issue, they seem so reluctant... Hell, they even killed my ECU and I was Prius-less for 1 week!

Well, as of this morning, it appears that we sheeplike Canadians are finally getting off our fat complacent behinds. Hopefully this will result in some measure of fairness in the Canadian automotive marketplace.

http://www.globeinvestor.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070926.wcarsuit0926/GIStory/

we'll see how it turns out. I remember a suit against Toyota and "Access Toyota" price-fixing policy. We know how that turned out (in all provinces except BC).

we'll see how it turns out. I remember a suit against Toyota and "Access Toyota" price-fixing policy. We know how that turned out (in all provinces except BC).

Notice which Company is not being sued?

As for Access Toyota.........do you get a discount at Tim Hortons for buying a cup every day? I admit not getting anything for being a repeat guest is BS> It's a joke that I see that some people here think Toyota should give up profits to be nice. I'm sure anyone on this forum that owned their own business would price things according to the "nice" factor.

Conversation you'll never hear at the Tony Little Gazelle, Barbie, Oakley, Yugioh card, Coca-cola, Halo 3, Tickle me Elmo, Oil refinery etc factory boardroom:

"Gee do you think we're making too much on each one of these ?"(room erupts with gales of laughter and sounds of people's pop/juice/coffee shooting out their nose)



When Toyota drops the price of a Prius to $29,500 will the dealer who sold the last one at 31,200 get hell from that guest?(wait that's already whats happening) Don't get me wrong, Toyota is making money and quite a lot of it. But I'm afraid I haven't heard of the Free and Fair market system. The markup on a pair of sneakers is scandalous but I don't see anyone suing Footlocker for its pricing system. There's more profit in a $7000 motorcycle than a $17000 car!


I love Toyota and a lot of their products but I certainly don't expect them to drop prices to be nice. IF people out west want a better deal they need to vote with their wallet. Either don't buy a car from Toyota or buy one out of province. In Canada Toyota will follow everyone's lead when it comes to prices. Porche just dropped their prices and you'll see other companies take the same route. Watch the people who bought at the old price complain when it happens though....or the people who just bought a used car that lost half its value overnight.

Notice which Company is not being sued?

As for Access Toyota.........do you get a discount at Tim Hortons for buying a cup every day? I admit not getting anything for being a repeat guest is BS> It's a joke that I see that some people here think Toyota should give up profits to be nice. I'm sure anyone on this forum that owned their own business would price things according to the "nice" factor.

Conversation you'll never hear at the Tony Little Gazelle, Barbie, Oakley, Yugioh card, Coca-cola, Halo 3, Tickle me Elmo, Oil refinery etc factory boardroom:

"Gee do you think we're making too much on each one of these ?"(room erupts with gales of laughter and sounds of people's pop/juice/coffee shooting out their nose)



When Toyota drops the price of a Prius to $29,500 will the dealer who sold the last one at 31,200 get hell from that guest?(wait that's already whats happening) Don't get me wrong, Toyota is making money and quite a lot of it. But I'm afraid I haven't heard of the Free and Fair market system. The markup on a pair of sneakers is scandalous but I don't see anyone suing Footlocker for its pricing system. There's more profit in a $7000 motorcycle than a $17000 car!


I love Toyota and a lot of their products but I certainly don't expect them to drop prices to be nice. IF people out west want a better deal they need to vote with their wallet. Either don't buy a car from Toyota or buy one out of province. In Canada Toyota will follow everyone's lead when it comes to prices. Porche just dropped their prices and you'll see other companies take the same route. Watch the people who bought at the old price complain when it happens though....or the people who just bought a used car that lost half its value overnight.


hahaha.. i remember this argument before.. except the person used "buying suits" instead of Tim Horton's. A house and a car are the two most expensive purchases and historically have been the two items in which negotiation can occur. IOW, how much is the house or car worth to YOU.

Also, even if the dealer sold at "invoice", Toyota is still making a lot of profit, so don't think that people are "ripping" Toyota off by buying at invoice. If so, Toyota would've moved out of the US a long time ago because you guys love buying at invoice price. Up here, we're stuck at MSRP or a thousand or two below MSRP (stil above invoice).


Also, the dealers still make profit. We're not out there to complete strip the dealer of any profits. That's is obviously unfair to the dealer and they are a business so profits are obviously their priority and I respect that. There are plenty of ways the dealer can make money off you and is more than the purchase price, I can tell you that.

Notice which Company is not being sued?

As for Access Toyota.........do you get a discount at Tim Hortons for buying a cup every day? I admit not getting anything for being a repeat guest is BS> It's a joke that I see that some people here think Toyota should give up profits to be nice. I'm sure anyone on this forum that owned their own business would price things according to the "nice" factor.

Conversation you'll never hear at the Tony Little Gazelle, Barbie, Oakley, Yugioh card, Coca-cola, Halo 3, Tickle me Elmo, Oil refinery etc factory boardroom:

"Gee do you think we're making too much on each one of these ?"(room erupts with gales of laughter and sounds of people's pop/juice/coffee shooting out their nose)



When Toyota drops the price of a Prius to $29,500 will the dealer who sold the last one at 31,200 get hell from that guest?(wait that's already whats happening) Don't get me wrong, Toyota is making money and quite a lot of it. But I'm afraid I haven't heard of the Free and Fair market system. The markup on a pair of sneakers is scandalous but I don't see anyone suing Footlocker for its pricing system. There's more profit in a $7000 motorcycle than a $17000 car!


I love Toyota and a lot of their products but I certainly don't expect them to drop prices to be nice. IF people out west want a better deal they need to vote with their wallet. Either don't buy a car from Toyota or buy one out of province. In Canada Toyota will follow everyone's lead when it comes to prices. Porche just dropped their prices and you'll see other companies take the same route. Watch the people who bought at the old price complain when it happens though....or the people who just bought a used car that lost half its value overnight.

I think you missed the point about antitrust. Any dealer can charge what they want, and Footlocker can have any pricing system for their corporation and franchises, but they cannot collude with other dealers to fix prices in a given area. It's against the law down here, and certainly against the law up there.

Honda got into huge legal problems down here in the 1980s doing some similar stuff, including bribes and kickbacks, and they only finished settling those lawsuits a few years ago. I don't think Toyota corporate people are stupid enough to go down the path that some Honda executives traveled, though.

C

...this just in http://www.wheels.ca/newsFeatures/article/31753

Yeah it's basically on every auto column in Canada.

Even if you factor in the difference in standard equipment (e.g. Canadian vehicles get stuff like cargo nets and floor mats and heated mirrors etc), it's still cheaper in the US.

For Toyota, US dealers include the "Preferred Accessory Package" anyway to all cars. Carpet mats, cargo net, cargo mat and first aid kit.

...this just in http://www.wheels.ca/newsFeatures/article/31753

Ouch! Let the slap-down commence!

This could be bigger than the Honda fiasco I mentioned. Interesting that Acura was the first make mentioned...

C

alphabetical order?

If every Canadian in the market for a new car were to delay their purchase until prices drop to reflect the exchange parity, manufacturers and dealers would get more serious about adjusting their prices.

Tell your dealer that you have several vehicles on your short list and you plan to buy the first one to significantly lower their price. Leave your number so that they can call you as soon as a deal can be arranged.

If enough people start doing this, the market will have to adjust - simple supply and demand.

Am I alone?

If every Canadian in the market for a new car were to delay their purchase until prices drop to reflect the exchange parity, manufacturers and dealers would get more serious about adjusting their prices.

Tell your dealer that you have several vehicles on your short list and you plan to buy the first one to significantly lower their price. Leave your number so that they can call you as soon as a deal can be arranged.

If enough people start doing this, the market will have to adjust - simple supply and demand.

Am I alone?
If only it was this simple >.<.

But yeah that is textbook economics.. supply and demand...

As anybody tried or researched into buying a new toyota through LLC?
What I mean is set up a Limited Liabilty Company in the states, purchase the car/truck with that company.

Just need advice would this work? How would the insurance work?

might be the way to get around buying a new toyota directly and bringing it back to canada.

I so want to buy a new tacoma but there is no way in He^^ I'm paying the canadian prices of approx 10 grand more.

What I haven't heard many people (especially outside the industry) is how dropping new car prices by 20 to 40% will affect the used car market, and all current lease residuals.

How much can your 03 Corolla trade be worth when a 2008 drops from $18000 to $15000?
People are stll going to want top dollar for their trades...

A guy at work bought a brand new 2007 CRV in Watertown, NY. It took him some phone calls and following the RIV info, but after all was said and done, he saved $12,000 CDN on the car.

Even this time last year ($0.90 dollar?), a local TN member brought an xB over from NY and saved something like $6,000 after everything was done.

If my 05 rolla has a ~ $8500 buy-out at the end of the 4yr lease, and the dollar is still around par and the new car prices are closer together, will Toyota take that into account and drop the buy-out accordingly?

What I haven't heard many people (especially outside the industry) is how dropping new car prices by 20 to 40% will affect the used car market, and all current lease residuals.

How much can your 03 Corolla trade be worth when a 2008 drops from $18000 to $15000?
People are stll going to want top dollar for their trades...
Does it matter? cause importing the vehicles will also flood the used car markets and can also drop the resale values. So it's a lose-lose situation for resale. However, Toyotas do tend to keep their value high even in situations like this. The only thing is that when you sell a US car, you can get top dollar for it cause you'll be selling it in Canadian used car prices.

Does it matter? cause importing the vehicles will also flood the used car markets and can also drop the resale values. So it's a lose-lose situation for resale. However, Toyotas do tend to keep their value high even in situations like this. The only thing is that when you sell a US car, you can get top dollar for it cause you'll be selling it in Canadian used car prices.

Not true. US cars generally have a lower resale value in Vancouver.

Even this time last year ($0.90 dollar?), a local TN member brought an xB over from NY and saved something like $6,000 after everything was done.

If my 05 rolla has a ~ $8500 buy-out at the end of the 4yr lease, and the dollar is still around par and the new car prices are closer together, will Toyota take that into account and drop the buy-out accordingly?

How can you save $6000 on a car that isn't sold by Toyota in Canada?

And no Toyota will not adjust your buy-out. You're going to pay the $8500 +tax. That's part of the problem. When Toyota drops the prices they'll have Hell to pay for a long long time with previous guests. The only way around this is some kind of credit system towards a new purchase. ie I come in with my 05 Corolla that I paid 18,800 for and now sells for 17,500. My car isn't worth the buyout cause used prices dropped accordingly. Hopefully Toyota will give you a grand to buy a new car or something. This doesn't even take into account those who purchase a vehicle right before the price drop.

How can you save $6000 on a car that isn't sold by Toyota in Canada?


Compared to what the dealers are selling here? dealers have imported xAs and xBs and they're selling them USED for Cdn$25k.

Not true. US cars generally have a lower resale value in Vancouver.

ahhh I see. Thanks.

Compared to what the dealers are selling here? dealers have imported xAs and xBs and they're selling them USED for Cdn$25k.



So you're saving on a car that has been imported at someone elses expense and they want to make money on it. What do you expect. You're not going to go to the states and buy a similarly priced corolla ce (which is what a Scion goes for) and save $6000. Scion is a specialty product whose scarcity in Canada has pushed the price up. You can't complain that dealers are marking up Scions too much. They are what they sell for. (the most expensive Xb in Ontario is 23k and most priced well below that) Toyota needs to worry about the prices of cars that it already sells locally, not the prices of imported cars that don't exist here. If anything the prices of Scions helps Toyota dealers justify the prices for their product. ("Gee a Scion xA is 20k I can get a Yaris for a few thousand less on the same platform..")

So you're saving on a car that has been imported at someone elses expense and they want to make money on it. What do you expect. You're not going to go to the states and buy a similarly priced corolla ce (which is what a Scion goes for) and save $6000. Scion is a specialty product whose scarcity in Canada has pushed the price up. You can't complain that dealers are marking up Scions too much. They are what they sell for. (the most expensive Xb in Ontario is 23k and most priced well below that) Toyota needs to worry about the prices of cars that it already sells locally, not the prices of imported cars that don't exist here. If anything the prices of Scions helps Toyota dealers justify the prices for their product. ("Gee a Scion xA is 20k I can get a Yaris for a few thousand less on the same platform..")

Well you're luckier in Ontario. ALL of our xA/xBs have been $25k or higher. tCs are going for $27k.

Paying a broker to import it for you is even cheaper lol.

Oh and btw, that tC is still sitting on the lot and I have no idea what happened to the xA/xBs cause I don't see any xAs around and all the xBs I've seen are not silver (which was the used one they were selling).

So it's fairly safe to say, people would rather import it themselves (personally or through a broker) than buy from a dealer here.

Well you're luckier in Ontario. ALL of our xA/xBs have been $25k or higher. tCs are going for $27k.

Paying a broker to import it for you is even cheaper lol.

Oh and btw, that tC is still sitting on the lot and I have no idea what happened to the xA/xBs cause I don't see any xAs around and all the xBs I've seen are not silver (which was the used one they were selling).

So it's fairly safe to say, people would rather import it themselves (personally or through a broker) than buy from a dealer here.

I need some guidance how do you get a broker? I'm looking at purchasing a 2007 used tacoma 4x4 4 cylinder.

dang, I had it saved somewhere but search the Canadian websites (Auto123.com and CanadianDriver). Or you can look up the yellow pages I suppose (I know.. old school lol).

Basically a broker is a company that imports vehicles. Not all will do it for you esp. since they prefer to import luxury and sports cars cause there's a greater demand (because of a greater price difference) and that they can charge more.