Car & Driver:: Lexus IS-F Tested. 0-60 In......4.2 Sec!!

http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroadtests/14266/tested-2008-lexus-is-f.html

Yeah its a nice car alright! Can't wait to see comparison tests. Also to see owners responses to the car let alone the market.

I'll wait till edmunds inside line makes the full test.

I gotta say I like it better than the M3 , but not better than the C63amg.

Very sick car, and quite quick at that. But, I just wish Toyota/Lexus would create something to compete with the new GT-R. I really think Toyota should've created the new Supra, but I do understand why they didn't. The IS-F is definitely a step in the right direction for Lexus though.

Damn thats fast :)

I'll wait till edmunds inside line makes the full test.


they already tested it. those old geezers only managed 4.8sec from 0-60 :rolleyes:

But, I just wish Toyota/Lexus would create something to compete with the new GT-R. I really think Toyota should've created the new Supra, but I do understand why they didn't. The IS-F is definitely a step in the right direction for Lexus though.



They are. THe LF-A concept. That's supposed to be Lexus' supercar. Sure the GT-R might not be considered supercar but it does have the performance to match it. The LF-A is supposed to sport a 5.0ltr V10 pumping out 500hp or so.:thumbup:

They are. THe LF-A concept. That's supposed to be Lexus' supercar. Sure the GT-R might not be considered supercar but it does have the performance to match it. The LF-A is supposed to sport a 5.0ltr V10 pumping out 500hp or so.:thumbup:
Yeah but the LF-A's price is expected to be in F430 territory. That's a far cry from the GT-R.

IS-F is a pretty cool car...the mechanicals are great...but the name sucks and it's a little too riced out for me.

They are. THe LF-A concept. That's supposed to be Lexus' supercar. Sure the GT-R might not be considered supercar but it does have the performance to match it. The LF-A is supposed to sport a 5.0ltr V10 pumping out 500hp or so.:thumbup:
Probably the most amazing thing about the LF-A is what Lexus want its weight to be. 2500 lbs, if that is the true weight it will be lighter than everything else in the field. I have much higher hopes for the LF-A than any other vehicle in the company, its got the looks, the noise, the power and the weight going for it. Can the Japanese enter the exclusive supercar club dominated by the Italians, Brits and Germans?

IS-F is a pretty cool car...the mechanicals are great...but the name sucks and it's a little too riced out for me.

if its not riced out it would look like a $60k IS350

hmm.... For $62k... it's almost 30k more than a base IS350. And close to the price of the V8 M3... Lexus might price itself out of the market.

As for the LF-A... If they are targetting $200k... I'm going to say.. not too many are going to pay that much for a "Toyota"... or a "Lexus".

There's a huge population of people that buy things for a symbol or brand. LV, Coach, bags is a good example. People buy 4 cylinder MB and BMW's because? They can say they have a MB or a BMW. So if those people are going to pay close to $200k. They rather have Ferrari, Lamborghini's or a Porsche. It's a status symbol thing to them.

^^Yeah I agree. Its all about brand name. Its the name! And social status. Plus Lexus let alone a Lexus supercar isn't obviously well established like the other makes that have been around for decades.

hmm.... For $62k... it's almost 30k more than a base IS350. And close to the price of the V8 M3... Lexus might price itself out of the market.

As for the LF-A... If they are targetting $200k... I'm going to say.. not too many are going to pay that much for a "Toyota"... or a "Lexus".

There's a huge population of people that buy things for a symbol or brand. LV, Coach, bags is a good example. People buy 4 cylinder MB and BMW's because? They can say they have a MB or a BMW. So if those people are going to pay close to $200k. They rather have Ferrari, Lamborghini's or a Porsche. It's a status symbol thing to them.

Not EVERYONE uses them as a status symbol, but more of the wow factor that they get from everyone with the newest, most exotic cars.

Not EVERYONE uses them as a status symbol, but more of the wow factor that they get from everyone with the newest, most exotic cars.

Where did I say "EVERYONE"? I said "huge population of people"... Did u read my post?

I'm sure there will be people that will spend $200k on a Toyota/Lexus. Just that the majority of the people rather have the Ferrari/Lamborghini/Porsche for that kind of price.

IS-F is a pretty cool car...the mechanicals are great...but the name sucks and it's a little too riced out for me.

The side vents pay homage to the DTM series.

http://dtm.com/images/news/6432_1g.jpg

172mph? fcuk! :wowza:

172mph? fcuk! :wowza:
It's not like we can REALLY get to that kinda speed here (without consequences) anyway :disappoin

It's not like we can REALLY get to that kinda speed here (without consequences) anyway :disappoin
I do wonder sometimes why anyone here(Ontario) even thinks about getting a Ferrari or Lambo or a fast car for that matter. Now if any of them attempt to get even 50% of a Ferrari F430's speed they're a "street racer" and have it seized. In fact the only cars that cannot reach street racer status are kei cars(which we don't get) and microcars like the Smart fortwo. Of course the government complains so much about congestion :rolleyes:.

It's not like we can REALLY get to that kinda speed here (without consequences) anyway :disappoin

Who said anything about speeding?

It's much higher than the 155mph limiter we're used to seeing on so many BMW's and Mercs.

I do wonder sometimes why anyone here(Ontario) even thinks about getting a Ferrari or Lambo or a fast car for that matter. Now if any of them attempt to get even 50% of a Ferrari F430's speed they're a "street racer" and have it seized. In fact the only cars that cannot reach street racer status are kei cars(which we don't get) and microcars like the Smart fortwo. Of course the government complains so much about congestion :rolleyes:.
Those kei cars are cool, and they're cheap to insure and own :thumbup:


Who said anything about speeding?

It's much higher than the 155mph limiter we're used to seeing on so many BMW's and Mercs.
It wouldn't be "speeding" if we're in Germany (some unrestricted sections of the Autobahn) :D One can only wish when we're here :(

It wouldn't be "speeding" if we're in Germany (some unrestricted sections of the Autobahn) :D One can only wish when we're here :(
Somehow if I were in Germany I'd probably spend more time at the Nurburgring instead of the Autobahn. Outside of Germany's Autobahn the only other place that doesn't has areas with no limits is the Isle of Man.

No need to go all the way to Germany to find a good road to drive on. There are plenty of roads that offer spectacular views just south of the border. Driving fast on a straightaway is overrated.

Overall I think the car is hot, but one thing bothers me, and that's the stacked quad tailpipes.

http://us.tnpv.net/2007/WKA200710/WKA2007100259837_pv.jpg

:barf:

Much rather have them side by side personally.

IS-F is a good effort, but still falling short since the competition is ferocious in this segment. IS-F eventhough in a straight line is as fast as an 4.0L V8 M3 (4.3 secs, 12.7 secs), does not measure up in terms of handling, agility or driver involvement up to the screaming M3 and it says in this review.

M3 was recently compared by Car and Driver against RS-4 and C63. M3 was a lot faster than the RS4, but a bit slower than the C63. Still, M3 won since it was the cheapest, the best handling and more agile car in the class. It sounded the best as well. So, for now M3 yet remains the benchmark.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/12991/comparo-m-b-c63-v-audi-rs-4-v-bmw-m3-more.html

p.s. IS-F lost a comparison against RS-4 in Edmunds.com. It is worth noting that the RS-4 was quicker than the IS-F in straight line and around a race track. They criticized the faux stacked quad exhausts when they are not even true exhausts tips since there is nothing behind the tips:

Edmunds video: RS4 vs IS-F

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=123158

Somehow if I were in Germany I'd probably spend more time at the Nurburgring instead of the Autobahn. Outside of Germany's Autobahn the only other place that doesn't has areas with no limits is the Isle of Man.
:werd:


No need to go all the way to Germany to find a good road to drive on. There are plenty of roads that offer spectacular views just south of the border. Driving fast on a straightaway is overrated.
Well duh :lol: Quebec got some very fun mountain roads too, lots of elevation change :thumbup: It doesn't help when Ontario is mostly a flatland :disappoin

From edmunds inside line:

Frankly, we expected even better performance from such a good power-to-weight ratio. In our testing, the IS 350 has run to 60 mph in 5.2 seconds and done the quarter-mile in 13.8 seconds at 101.2 mph. Meanwhile, the BMW 335i sedan (http://www.edmunds.com/new/2008/bmw/3series/100946473/prices.html) with an automatic clocks 60 mph in 4.9 seconds and the quarter-mile in 13.4 seconds at 103.9 mph.

And when it comes to BMW's official performance estimates for the 2008 BMW M3 sedan (http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/m3/2008/review.html) with its 414-hp 4.0-liter V8, the benchmark of 60 mph is supposed to come up in 4.9 seconds. The same stat for the 2008 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG (http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=121540/pageNumber=1) with its 457-hp, 6.2-liter V8 is less than 4.5 seconds.


F Is for Freeway Hop
While the kind of on-track schooling the IS-F has received is generally a good performance-tuning practice that tends to breed more performance-capable vehicles, it doesn't always make for a livable car.

The IS-F short-travel suspension rides taut and firm like a racecar's — all the time. Without driver-adjustable suspension, freeway overpasses that are usually registered by the seat of your pants as a gentle, rolling hop become spine-compressing jolts. Consider yourself warned.

We applaud the effort and support Lexus' path down this road, but we hope they spend a little more time on city streets and a little less time on race tracks

I guess that happens when its only your first attempt of serious perfomance in a niche dominated by the big boys from germany. Better luck next time.

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/roadtests/comparison/2008/lexus.is.f/08.lexus.is.f.det.7.500.jpg

OUCH. . . .

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/roadtests/comparison/2008/lexus.is.f/08.lexus.is.f.det.7.500.jpg

OUCH. . . .


That is SO CHEESY... on a $62k car... you have "fake" rice exhaust... :disappoin

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/roadtests/comparison/2008/lexus.is.f/08.lexus.is.f.det.7.500.jpg

OUCH. . . .
:lol: wow..

compared to:

http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/2007bmwm3rear.jpg

http://z.about.com/d/cars/1/7/d/v/08_c63amg_rear.jpg

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/EDITORIAL/editorial_images/non_imported/audi_rs4_rear.jpg

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/roadtests/comparison/2008/lexus.is.f/08.lexus.is.f.det.7.500.jpg

OUCH. . . .

Even still, there are 2 mufflers with dual exits just like its German rivals.

Even still, there are 2 mufflers with dual exits just like its German rivals.
Come on, 91MR2, I mean, look who's posting that to instigate something :rolleyes::lol:;)

Even still, there are 2 mufflers with dual exits just like its German rivals.

Please look under at the under carriage of the new M3. Those quad exhausts are fully functional unlike the quad exhausts with exhaust flowing through all of them in the IS-F for show that is not connected to anything.

RS-4 has dual exhausts, but no "ricey" faux quad exhausts like IS-F.

HAHAHA That's Toyota for you. "Form follows function" apparently isn't on their list.

Yeah, well it would seem that much more exspensive cars are doing the same thing.... oh well. http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=315871 Man some of you people whine about everything, and the IS-F pulled a 0.92g on the skid pad while the M3 pulled a 0.91g, go look at the reviews if you don't believe me so that answers which car handles better.

Well, if it performs well with dual exhausts instead of four then what wrong with just giving it two? Slapping 2 extra fake pipes on is just tacky it reminds me of what ricers do when they have a an extra muffler just "for looks". :lol:

Man some of you people whine about everything
That's TN for yeah :lol: They bitch because they can, even though whatever they bitched about has no relevance to themselves whatsoever.

Yeah, well it would seem that much more exspensive cars are doing the same thing.... oh well. http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=315871 Man some of you people whine about everything, and the IS-F pulled a 0.92g on the skid pad while the M3 pulled a 0.91g, go look at the reviews if you don't believe me so that answers which car handles better.

The thing is, the IS-F's real exhaust pipes aren't anywhere close to the faux chrome tips, as evident by the hand between them. Also notice how the pipes don't even line up with the faux tips, not even a little bit. Lastly, notice how small the pips are compared to the tips, it's almost like the fake tips are trying to compensate for something. . . .

I say, if your going to give the car a "unique" exhaust setup and draw attention to it. . . . .it better be well executed and at least functional. This, IMHO, is a design mistake.

Yeah, well it would seem that much more exspensive cars are doing the same thing.... oh well. http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=315871 Man some of you people whine about everything, and the IS-F pulled a 0.92g on the skid pad while the M3 pulled a 0.91g, go look at the reviews if you don't believe me so that answers which car handles better.

At the end of the day, BMW put their money where their mouth is and showed the M3 can run 8:03 around the Nurburgring track, which is Porsche 911 Carrera S territory and 22 seconds faster than the E46 M3 while Lexus despite being tested for months on Nurburgring has no official lap times to prove the car's actually handling prowess and comparison with the M3.

http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/13604/tested-2008-bmw-m3.html?al=98

Check this other review of C&D as well. M3 has also pulled 0.94g in the other Car and driver test. Besides, skidpad only measures lateral grip. It is not a good measure of the cars ability to take high speed corners. Everyone knows a Mustang GT can pull more than 0.90g on the skidpad, but it handles plain bad and oversteers like crazy when tossed into the corners. The slalom speed is a far better measure of car's handling since it tosses the weight of the car side to side. The IS-F is too nose heavy due to the heavy weight pinned to the radiator and has a much higher center of gravity due to tall roof line while the much lighter M3 has a 50-50 balance and a lower center of gravity.

The thing is, the IS-F's real exhaust pipes aren't anywhere close to the faux chrome tips, as evident by the hand between them. Also notice how the pipes don't even line up with the faux tips, not even a little bit. Lastly, notice how small the pips are compared to the tips, it's almost like the fake tips are trying to compensate for something. . . .

I say, if your going to give the car a "unique" exhaust setup and draw attention to it. . . . .it better be well executed and at least functional. This, IMHO, is a design mistake.

I doubt it. Each bank has independent 2.4 inch pipes from tubular headers that merge into a pre-muffler with a single 2.7 inch pipe, then it splits again into two 2.1 inch pipes that lead to 16.8 liter mufflers on each side of the rear (both mufflers have dual exits, so 4 tips total). That's fine tuned semi-dual exhaust. I'm betting Toyota didn't want them connected because of the high heat from the exhaust. V8s produce quite a lot of heat when pushed hard. I've seen police Crown Victorias with cracked bumpers right at the exhaust tips on both sides, and their engines aren't nearly as high output as the 2UR-GSE.

Please look under at the under carriage of the new M3. Those quad exhausts are fully functional unlike the quad exhausts with exhaust flowing through all of them in the IS-F for show that is not connected to anything.

RS-4 has dual exhausts, but no "ricey" faux quad exhausts like IS-F.

Granted, the M3 revs a ton higher, so it needs more flow. I wonder why the RS4 only uses dual though.

Some of you are criticitizing the IS-F not having driven it and also not having all the facts straight. In reviews the IS-F has pulled 0.90g+ on the skidpad and achieved over 70mph in slalom runs.

As for 'Ring times, who cares? There are a bunch of performance cars and supercars, notably including the Ferrari Enzo, which do not have official Nurburgring times. So are we going to start criticizing vehicles like the Enzo as well? Give me a break.

What nobody has mentioned is how good the fuel economy is on the IS-F. 16/23 2008 EPA numbers, and about 16mpg in real-world mixed driving conditions according to reviews. That's better fuel economy than either the RS4 or the M3. Either the IS-F engine is that much more efficient, or the engine is tuned lightly to maximize fuel economy.

Also, if you're going to criticize the IS-F exhaust consider that cars like the Audi R8 and Bugatti Veyron have the SAME "faux" exhaust tips. Behind those exhaust tips, the IS-F still has 4 exhaust outlets, they just aren't directly connected to the tips, that's all.

damn thats nice, gotta love that horsepower too:thumbup:

Some of you are criticitizing the IS-F not having driven it and also not having all the facts straight. In reviews the IS-F has pulled 0.90g+ on the skidpad and achieved over 70mph in slalom runs.

As for 'Ring times, who cares? There are a bunch of performance cars and supercars, notably including the Ferrari Enzo, which do not have official Nurburgring times. So are we going to start criticizing vehicles like the Enzo as well? Give me a break.

What nobody has mentioned is how good the fuel economy is on the IS-F. 16/23 2008 EPA numbers, and about 16mpg in real-world mixed driving conditions according to reviews. That's better fuel economy than either the RS4 or the M3. Either the IS-F engine is that much more efficient, or the engine is tuned lightly to maximize fuel economy.

Also, if you're going to criticize the IS-F exhaust consider that cars like the Audi R8 and Bugatti Veyron have the SAME "faux" exhaust tips. Behind those exhaust tips, the IS-F still has 4 exhaust outlets, they just aren't directly connected to the tips, that's all.

That is pretty good. From what everyone said, I just assumed it was dual exhaust. I'm sure an aftermarket quad exhaust would make it much nicer.

For one, who cares about Nurburgring? That is an ignorant thing to say. Perhaps, Only non-enthusiasts or maybe Lexus owners. Maybe, they only care about straight line performance, which is fairly on par with the M3. Like I said before, IS-F is a good effort for a Lexus, but still for 59,000, it is well into the M3 territory, which by now has been established as the most exhilarating and dynamic car in the class. True, most of the regular-joe drivers will not be able to push them limits, but they would always look for the most exhilarating and dynamic car (easy to live with every day, yet track worthy performance).

This segment is German-dominated and go visit Audi and BMW sites, you will see all they talk about is race track performance. The Lexus is far more harsh and stiff than other cars in the class, yet cannot match handling of even the RS-4, which was released 3 years ago let alone the M3 or C63 AMG. If Lexus wants them to sit up and take a notice, they better release some proof of race track performance and show it is up to par with the German rivals in handling. Not a single lap time available for the IS-F considering it was tested at Nurburgring for several months. Considering, all reviews are saying the car understeers badly when pushed to the limits, it is much needed.

Secondly, no one will buy an M3 or RS-4 to get good gas mileage. If they have the money to get one of these cars, they better be able to afford the premium for gas. Still, I would like to see real world proof and not official claimed gas mileage where it says M3 has not been able to match 16/23 of the IS-F. I am quite sure, it can easily get atleast as good gas mileage.

Thirdly, look closely at the picture of the hand behind the faux exhaust. IS-F has convention dual-exhausts just like the IS350, but the faux exhaust tips are made to look like it has quad exhausts. I would like to see a similar picture of any German car in the segment with faux quad exhausts. I doubt there is any despite your claims.


Some of you are criticitizing the IS-F not having driven it and also not having all the facts straight. In reviews the IS-F has pulled 0.90g+ on the skidpad and achieved over 70mph in slalom runs.

As for 'Ring times, who cares? There are a bunch of performance cars and supercars, notably including the Ferrari Enzo, which do not have official Nurburgring times. So are we going to start criticizing vehicles like the Enzo as well? Give me a break.

What nobody has mentioned is how good the fuel economy is on the IS-F. 16/23 2008 EPA numbers, and about 16mpg in real-world mixed driving conditions according to reviews. That's better fuel economy than either the RS4 or the M3. Either the IS-F engine is that much more efficient, or the engine is tuned lightly to maximize fuel economy.

Also, if you're going to criticize the IS-F exhaust consider that cars like the Audi R8 and Bugatti Veyron have the SAME "faux" exhaust tips. Behind those exhaust tips, the IS-F still has 4 exhaust outlets, they just aren't directly connected to the tips, that's all.

I agree with silver04rollas.... this is a car that's supposed to go after the European Sport Sedans..

Yet it fails with everyone of them... has a faux quad exhaust.
One thing it's supposed to be, was cheaper in price... but it failed that too?

So what's next? Are car magazines going to test these cars for 10 yrs.. and 10 yrs later it's going to finally "win" in the "reliable" catagory? Most people that can afford these cars will probably NOT keep the cars for 10yrs.

$60k, fake quad exhaust, not faster than competition... lack of "real" data from the track... disapointing Lexus.. very disappointing...

Slapping 2 extra fake pipes on is just tacky it reminds me of what ricers do when they have a an extra muffler just "for looks". :lol:Not fake.The thing is, the IS-F's real exhaust pipes aren't anywhere close to the faux chrome tips I say, if your going to give the car a "unique" exhaust setup and draw attention to it. . . . .it better be well executed and at least functional. This, IMHO, is a design mistake.Yet it fails with everyone of them... has a faux quad exhaust.....fake quad exhaust.... very disappointing...I guess the Lambo lp640 also fails?
http://media.autobild.de/bild/1/1e0c9749f9d3f48d5e8b73a6087844f1_1.jpghttp://images.motortrend.com/photo_gallery/112_0701_22s+2007_lamborghini_murcielago_lp640+exh aust.jpg

How about the Audi R8?
http://lz7w.com/albums/misc/Picture_011.jpg

Bugatti Veyron
http://www.autospies.com/images/users/XeroK00L/Cars-with-fake-exhaust-tips/veyron%20exhausts.jpg

And of course, IS-F
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/roadtests/comparison/2008/lexus.is.f/08.lexus.is.f.det.7.500.jpg


http://www.lafferty.ca/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/fail-24.jpg

^lol Pwned

Considering, all reviews are saying the car understeers badly when pushed to the limits, it is much needed.

I haven't read one review that said that. Most are saying it's relatively tail happy without VDIM on. A car with serious understeer wouldn't put out a 70mph slalom, sorry. I'm sure your Corolla couldn't because it has on-power understeer.

Also the chassis was developed by Toyota Technocraft.

I haven't read one review that said that. Most are saying it's relatively tail happy without VDIM on. A car with serious understeer wouldn't put out a 70mph slalom, sorry. I'm sure your Corolla couldn't because it has on-power understeer.

Also the chassis was developed by Toyota Technocraft.

Watch this review video at 1:48. It says "IS-F has stubborn understeer when pushed to the limits".

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=123125

p.s. I drive my XRS and have been to the solo 2 autocross circuit multiple times. I can power out of the corners from the apex at full throttle. It is when entering with a nose-heavy FWD car that I have to be careful of understeer. Thanks for telling me, though.

I guess the Lambo lp640 also fails?
How about the Audi R8?
Bugatti Veyron


Hmm.. we are comparing it to the cars Lexus would be comparing it to which are C63,M3 sedan, RS4....

I could careless what a Veyron does for it's exhaust or a Lambo.

Fake quads, ugly tacked-on body kit, beluga hood, high price, performance not on-par for the class...all very funny and extremely disappointing. The IS, IMO, is the best car to ever wear a Lexus badge and one of the best ever made by Toyota. Who is managing Toyota? Who is coming up with a fake peel-and-stick exhaust? Disappointed is an understatement.

Watch this review video at 1:48. It says "IS-F has stubborn understeer when pushed to the limits".

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=123125

p.s. I drive my XRS and have been to the solo 2 autocross circuit multiple times. I can power out of the corners from the apex at full throttle. It is when entering with a nose-heavy FWD car that I have to be careful of understeer. Thanks for telling me, though.

Edmunds is biased against Toyota/Lexus and is pro-German. Everything they said about the IS-F is the complete opposite of what everyone else is experiencing. They achieved the slowest times as well. Car and Driver has a more balanced review. Not particularly spectacular, but at least they give credit where it's due.

I forgot, the 2ZZ lacks torque.

I forgot, the 2ZZ lacks torque.

So?? Just because it lacks crank torque does not imply it lacks wheel torque. Almost all high revving cars make up for their lack torque through flat curve at high revs and gearing.

FYI,

Wheel Torque = (Crank torque) x (total transmission ratio i.e final drive gear ratios etc.)

At high rpms, with a 4.53 final drive, it is putting out enough torque to the wheels to make wheel hop probable with OEM Michelin tires in turns. It just so happens I have sticky tires.

lol. we can agree with one thing...

1.) most of the posters in this thread will never buy that ISF or any of its competitors in the near future; and
2.) most of the ones that will buy it will not attain .90g on the pad, or drive it on a course, nevertheless the ring; and
3.) the ones that do are super-duper-rich drug dealers, are connected with toyota, shady, or are just "spoiled-to-the-max"- the rest of us will go with a "waste-of-money/i-can-think-of-better-things-to-do-with-that-kind-of-cash" excuse.

kudos to lexus. as a japanese manufacturer, i think they have the best shot at the germans at their hi-po sedan game. that "best shot" may not be something that the minority (us) want, but it sure is better than the other asian manufacturers- most don't even have a proper car to battle with the run-of-the-mill IS250-350/bimmer-3-series/merc-C-class/audi-A4.

Edmunds is biased against Toyota/Lexus and is pro-German.

Say what?? I was lead to believe that there IS no media bias when it comes to automotive reviews. :)

Car and Driver just coaxed a 12.3 @ 116 out of the new Mercedes C63 AMG, setting the standard in the segment (almost a full second quicker than Edmunds test of the IS-F, though that 13.2 timeslip is probably a few ticks slow). I'm curious to see how the new 500+ HP CTS-V will stack up.

Car and Driver just coaxed a 12.3 @ 116 out of the new Mercedes C63 AMG, setting the standard in the segment .

It is a bit quicker than the M3, but the tank weighs 480 lbs more than the M3 and comes with an auto slushbox. The M3 will be introduced in North America in 6 speed manual and 7 speed M-DCT transmission. The M-DCT will even be a few tenths quicker than the 6 speed M3 almost matching the C63 in acceleration.

The overall benchmark hands down according to both Motor Trend and Car and Driver magazine is the M3 in their respective comparos without a doubt since it hands down handles the best, ligthest, extremely fast and with damper, throttle and suspension setting, it is easy to live with on a daily basis.

So?? Just because it lacks crank torque does not imply it lacks wheel torque. Almost all high revving cars make up for their lack torque through flat curve at high revs and gearing.

FYI,

Wheel Torque = (Crank torque) x (total transmission ratio i.e final drive gear ratios etc.)

At high rpms, with a 4.53 final drive, it is putting out enough torque to the wheels to make wheel hop probable with OEM Michelin tires in turns. It just so happens I have sticky tires.

I'm completely aware of the torque multiplication of transmission gear ratios. I could say the same thing about my 5SFE, but it's still low on torque compared to my 1MZ MR2.

Say what?? I was lead to believe that there IS no media bias when it comes to automotive reviews.

Car and Driver just coaxed a 12.3 @ 116 out of the new Mercedes C63 AMG, setting the standard in the segment (almost a full second quicker than Edmunds test of the IS-F, though that 13.2 timeslip is probably a few ticks slow). I'm curious to see how the new 500+ HP CTS-V will stack up.

Ahh, yes. . . . . .the proverbial "pink elephant" in the room. We'll have to see how it stacks up, but if history repeats itself, the Germans are going to have a surprise on thier hands.

With a 6.2 liter supercharged engine good for at least 500 hp/tq and completely chassis tuned at the 'Ring. . . .I'm willing to bet it'll be good for low 12's in the 1/4 mile, low 4's 0-60, .90+ skidpad. . . . .heck, the '07 CTS-V (400hp/tq) runs the 1320 in 13.0 @ 110mph, high 4's 0-60, and .87g. The old CTS-V sounds like competition for the IS-F already, and the all new V is due out in September ‘08 :ugh3: . . . . I’m curious to see how it’ll do.

The overall benchmark hands down according to both Motor Trend and Car and Driver magazine is the M3 in their respective comparos without a doubt since it hands down handles the best, ligthest, extremely fast and with damper, throttle and suspension setting, it is easy to live with on a daily basis.

You are correct, I should have said the C63 AMG is the benchmark in terms of straight-line acceleration. Obviously there's much more to a well-balanced performance luxury sedan than brute force.

Not caring about the nurburing lap times? Or how is the car's perfomance over there? After all the work done over there.... nah, that is unbelievable.

Great gas mileage for the IS-F? As a huge accomplishment for the category? That maybe interesting, but matters the least when u talk about sports cars, perfomance cars. Hahaha, this aint the corolla thread !!!!!

As edmunds said, a nice first attempt for lexus.

But so much work has to be done to dethrone the germans competitors.

Even the lexus IS 350, in the last comparo, got fourth place against CTS, 335i, C350 and the all new champion Infiniti G35. So lexus, still has a few lessons to take. The same way other brands had to do, till finally, take over bmw, like Infiniti this time. And not only in this comparison, but in motor trends G37 vrs 335i coupe.