Toyota Tacoma Unintended Acceleration

Toyota is on a roll lately...

I remember a while back there were complaints of unintended acceleration with the Prius (http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/08/prius_acceleration.html), and the culprit was believed to be the drive-by-wire system or some other computer error. Now it appears the '07 Tacoma is having similar issues and 20 vehicles have crashed nationwide due to this. NHTSA has formally opened an investigation and in the video Toyota basically says they "are not aware of any complaints" (even though one man in the video personally contacted Toyota) and will not do anything, not even begin their own testing, until the results of the investigation are finalized.

http://www.kpho.com/video/14310861/index.html (CBS 5 Video)
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/co...rintVersion=YES (http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/complaintresults.cfm?start=1&SearchType=DrillDown&type=1&year=2007&make=TOYOTA&model=TACOMA&component_id=0&summary=true&PrintVersion=YES)(NHTSA complaint site)

It's just a headline not data of comparison or significance.
According to the NHTSA monthly investigation report of September (http://nhthqnwws112.odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/docservlet/Artemis/Public/Pursuits/2007/INVMTY-092007-1234.pdf) Toyota had ony 2 ongoing investigations, which is not alot.

It's probably more like "stupid drivers accidentally push the gas pedal and try to blame the vehicle manufacturer". That's what our society is all about today. Nobody is responsible for their own actions. Blame someone else.

I'm not seeing how the throttle body can randomly get power to open the throttle and not have the problem be consistant.

Yeah, several complaints in the tacoma forum.

Its not that it just gets power suddenly from somewhere. The computer probably opens the throttle based on some faulty input that its seeing. Electrical gremlins like this can be random and not set any trouble codes. Could be a sensor issue or a software issue.

^^

Nope, according to Toyota loyalists, it's a right foot issue and the drivers sudden (and random) inability to distinguish the brake from the accelerator. . . .

I can't tell you how often I accidentally hit the brake when I'm trying to merge onto the highway, or hit the accelerator when slowing for a light. . . . .it get's scary sometimes. . . . .

Be honest guys, this happens to you too, right?

^^

Nope, according to Toyota loyalists, it's a right foot issue and the drivers sudden (and random) inability to distinguish the brake from the accelerator. . . .

I can't tell you how often I accidentally hit the brake when I'm trying to merge onto the highway, or hit the accelerator when slowing for a light. . . . .it get's scary sometimes. . . . .

Be honest guys, this happens to you too, right?
Or it's blamed on the floor mats, even though comments have said it was specifically not the floor mats that were causing it.

Audi's reputation in the US was nearly destroyed in the mid 80s from widespread coverage of unintended acceleration due to floor mats bunching up, but in Toyota's case it appears to be an electronic issue. For Toyota's sake, they better take care of this issue immediately; many people are ignorant in the operation of a car and don't think to shift into neutral and turn the key. The media goes after this stuff like a vampire looking for blood...it makes a great sensational story.

What's disturbing is that Toyota claims to have had no previous knowledge of this, which is clearly them covering their ass because they had problems reported with the Prius and I believe one other vehicle, all using a drive-by-wire application. Surely if one was having problems, they would inspect or at least post a memo for the others with a similar electronic setup. Right? ...Right?

Do I sense another "warranty enhancement" coming up?

Isnt technology great! I cant wait for brake by wire systems. Like the ones mercedes already has out there that have isues. Good time to be a tech. :D

More evidence of quality falling.

Stop the growth, Toyota, until things get sorted out! It's not worth being #1 if this is what happens.

^^

Nope, according to Toyota loyalists, it's a right foot issue and the drivers sudden (and random) inability to distinguish the brake from the accelerator. . . .

I can't tell you how often I accidentally hit the brake when I'm trying to merge onto the highway, or hit the accelerator when slowing for a light. . . . .it get's scary sometimes. . . . .

Be honest guys, this happens to you too, right?
I couldn't stop laughing at the above :D

Now toss in a clutch pedal, a parking brake pedal and you have one heckuva mess :deadhorse

^^

Nope, according to Toyota loyalists, it's a right foot issue and the drivers sudden (and random) inability to distinguish the brake from the accelerator. . . .

I can't tell you how often I accidentally hit the brake when I'm trying to merge onto the highway, or hit the accelerator when slowing for a light. . . . .it get's scary sometimes. . . . .

Be honest guys, this happens to you too, right?

WHOA DUDE!!! That's scary to know you're out on the roads then. Never in all my years have I confused my three pedals.

WHOA DUDE!!! That's scary to know you're out on the roads then. Never in all my years have I confused my three pedals.It was a joke.

Or it's blamed on the floor mats, even though comments have said it was specifically not the floor mats that were causing it.

Audi's reputation in the US was nearly destroyed in the mid 80s from widespread coverage of unintended acceleration due to floor mats bunching up, but in Toyota's case it appears to be an electronic issue. For Toyota's sake, they better take care of this issue immediately; many people are ignorant in the operation of a car and don't think to shift into neutral and turn the key. The media goes after this stuff like a vampire looking for blood...it makes a great sensational story.

What's disturbing is that Toyota claims to have had no previous knowledge of this, which is clearly them covering their ass because they had problems reported with the Prius and I believe one other vehicle, all using a drive-by-wire application. Surely if one was having problems, they would inspect or at least post a memo for the others with a similar electronic setup. Right? ...Right?

Do I sense another "warranty enhancement" coming up?

Do you have any proof that in Toyota's case it appears to be an electronic issue?

I'm betting not. Yet, you say it like it's true... :rolleyes:

Well, if you think about it, its throttle by wire. There could be some sort of magnetic force or some sort of wire under the dash interfering with the brake pedal assembly causing the throttle to open up. Could be many reasons really. I prefer the old school throttle operated by cable.

Do you have any proof that in Toyota's case it appears to be an electronic issue?

I'm betting not. Yet, you say it like it's true... :rolleyes:
That's just what I've read from various articles about the Prius unintended acceleration, and considering the Tacoma uses drive-by-wire, there's probably some connection. It's not like it's a far-fetched idea, as CACressida stated.

This is the kind of stuff that happens when you switch from mechanical to electronic...one day it will get to the point where we won't be able to repair minor things without setting up an appointment at the dealership.

That's just what I've read from various articles about the Prius unintended acceleration, and considering the Tacoma uses drive-by-wire, there's probably some connection. It's not like it's a far-fetched idea, as CACressida stated.

This is the kind of stuff that happens when you switch from mechanical to electronic...one day it will get to the point where we won't be able to repair minor things without setting up an appointment at the dealership.

Except for the next new vehicles soon to arrive, Corolla, Matrix, Sequoia all Toyota now are DBW I believe. The new ones soon will be too. It's the future, soon every vehicle on the road will be DBW.

Except for the next new vehicles soon to arrive, Corolla, Matrix, Sequoia all Toyota now are DBW I believe. The new ones soon will be too. It's the future, soon every vehicle on the road will be DBW.And them every new vehicles will drive the old vehicles prices way low and I'll be in paradise with my favorite mechanical thorttle body vehicles :)

Almost all cars out there are DBW now. Not only are they making it harder for the do-it-yourselfer, they're also trying to make it harder for the independent shops. You will see more independents focus on one or two brands of vehicles only in the next 5-10 years.

Almost all cars out there are DBW now. Not only are they making it harder for the do-it-yourselfer, they're also trying to make it harder for the independent shops. You will see more independents focus on one or two brands of vehicles only in the next 5-10 years.

I doubt that auto manufacturers actually try and make it harder for independant shops as you state. :rolleyes: The manufacturers simply don't care about them (why should they). Independants simply can't compete on the same level.

I disagree with that as all it takes is factory training and the manufacturer software, but im not going to argue it in this thread.

Actually to be precise and accurate there is no 'investigation' at all by the NHTSA. It has two features on it's website...
Complaints which can be entered by anyone 24 hours a day ( that's what you referenced )
Defect Investigations which has its own separate database. Currently there are no Defect Investigations on the Tacoma

It does sound like there might be in the future when the facts are known better but for now there are several highly emotional 'complaints'.

In reading the complaints several sound detailed and valid but I'm frankly surprised at what they say. A few have stated that the vehicle began to accelerate and they stomped on the brake ... and still the vehicle accelerated. My understanding is that any braking system can overcome a throttle/gearing system especially in high gear at full speed often. Very curious and much more needs to be known.

I have a hard time believing any claim about unintended acceleration. We know it was fake in the Audi scandal. It makes no sense that the software system should malfunction and make the vehicle accelerate. It isn't magic at work in those systems. We are talking about standard software that has been tested throughout every possible state.

And you are correct kdhspyder. The brakes will always win at any speed, unless the brakes have faded a lot.

If I remember correctly about the unintended acceleration on the Audi 5000, there were a number of factors that were mentioned as possible causes of the problem:

1. The accelerator and brake pedals were close together, so that a foot slipping off the brake pedal could very easily hit the accelerator pedal.

2. Added to that problem was the fact that the accelerator pedal was lower (closer to the floor) than the brake pedal, so that a foot slipping off the brake would inevitably hit the accelerator,

3. Someone whose foot slipped off the brake and hit the accelerator would very likely not admit the error, either because the person would intentionally not want to admit to the mistake, or because in the panic of the moment, did not realize that the foot had slipped off the brake pedal.

4. Tests proved that proper pressure on the brake would stop a car in all circumstances.

5. Moving the pedals further apart resulted in less complaints of unintended acceleration.

So, could it be in these circumstances that a blip of the engine, caused by the air conditioning cycling or caused by the cruise control (two of the conditions that seemed to have been mentioned in a number of the complaints), would cause a panic stomping on the brake and subsequent slipping off the pedal on to the accelerator? When questioned, these people may not admit the slipping off of the brake onto the accelerator, either because in the panic of the situation, the driver did not realize it, or because the driver is not willing to admit to making the mistake.