Poor Quaity Control

Sorry this has to be my first post...

I was very excited to pick up my new "S" model a little over a week ago. Well, I have got one good rattle that the dealer cannot find, a defective paint bead in one of the wheel wells, a small crack and utility knife style cut in the rear deck and a strange scratch pattern in the headliner. Dealer says they will "eventually" get it all taken care off. Nice for a brand new car. Some say Toyota quality is making a comeback? Don't think so.

Told the dealer I wanted them to take the car back. They said it's out of their hands and up to Toyota Canada. They were quite fast in washing their hands of the whole matter. Wouldn't even act on my behalf. Gave me Toyota's 800 number and email address. They did offer to take the "S" in trade less 4000 bucks! I am so frustrated I am actually considering taking this offer and either trying an XRS or moving up to a Camry SE which some say has better build quality.

The International Car Show is here in Calgary this weekend and I talked to the "factory rep". He listened intently, said Toyota stands by their product and that he has a "special" number I should call to get this taken care of. Ends up being the same general customer service number I got from the dealer (which is nothing more than the number posted on their corporate website). No help their either.

This is my first time back with Toyota after many years of non-Toyota cars and trucks. Not very impressed.

Sorry to hear about your issues...

Maybe I didn't read your post clearly but did you discover those issues (not the rattling noise) when you first picked up your car?

I know you must be feeling very frustrated about your issues and that the dealer isn't doing much for you...Call this number 1(800) 331-4331 and ask them for Toyota Canada Customer Relation #.

I will be picking up my XRS this Wednesday and I shall carefully inspect my new toy...

.Eric

Sorry to hear about your issues...

Maybe I didn't read your post clearly but did you discover those issues (not the rattling noise) when you first picked up your car?

I know you must be feeling very frustrated about your issues and that the dealer isn't doing much for you...

I will be picking up my XRS this Wednesday and I shall carefully inspect my new toy...

.Eric


Rattle was there when I picked it up. Told no problem getting rid of it. Two full days in the shop and no luck. After I got the car home, while I was showing it to friends we found the large paint drips at the top of the wheel well and it was obvious someone at the factory ran his finger up the entire length of the front wheel well lip while the paint was wet. Everything else regarding the interior was in back hidden by the headrests, except for the headliner flaw which is above the rear passenger seat. Those flaws were discovered while looking for the rattle.

Case files have been opened on the paint and headliner but can't proceed until the dealer hears from corporate.

Let me know how your experience goes.

Would appreciate it if you could sit in both the S and your new XRS and tell me if there is more cushion (lower back support) in the XRS seat.

Jeff has an XRS as well and I'm sure he can sure tell you more about the seats and there are several "S" owners here...

What I would do is to take pictures for reference and send them off to Toyota for proof...As with your case files being opened, I would call in every day to check on the status.

.ERIC

Jeff has an XRS as well and I'm sure he can sure tell you more about the seats and there are several "S" owners here...

What I would do is to take pictures for reference and send them off to Toyota for proof...

.ERIC
Dealer has already forwarded the high-res photos I took of all the items in question. Now it's just a waiting game. I HATE this. This was the exact reason I bought a NEW car and made it a Toyota (so I wouldn't have to go through s@#% like this).

Good luck with yours.

You just wouldn't expect to have those issues in a new Toyota eh...I hope everything goes well for you as well and definitely keep us posted re: this matter...

.Eric

Can you take pics of the cosmetic problems, I want to see...
I guess that's to be expected with a newly launched car, its always a good idea to waited a little longer to buy when they fix the hiccups. I think that also happened to the Camry when it was first launched. Many people complained about misaligned interior fittings. But after 2 or 3 months all the cars built after that time had the problems miraculously disappeared. I guess the plant workers was given a good talking to straight things out.

"Told the dealer (http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=239788#) I wanted them to take the car back. They said it's out of their hands and up to Toyota Canada. They were quite fast in washing their hands of the whole matter. Wouldn't even act on my behalf."

Until you sign that deed of sale, you are their best friend. They'll kiss your behind and offer the shirt on their back to wipe your butt with.

However, after you sign it, they don't give a flying "f" about you.

Oh, ya there's a guy that works at the plant that built ur Rolla...

Maybe you can PM him ur problems and maybe he can tell his managers or something, his name is ToyotaQC after all...LOL

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/member.php?u=29456

Where is this rattle? There is a rattle on mine... on the left side of the driver's side, i think. I can hear it sometimes... only sometimes. And when my music has a ton of bass. It's like a vibration buzzing sound.

Can you post pics of the defects that you found on your Corolla?

I haven't found any defects on my XRS really, the one thing I noticed on all the 10th Gen's I've seen is there seems to be an over-use of seam-sealer around the rear wheel wells on the quarter panel, it's not a big deal, but it seems excessive, lol. I noticed it more on a white LE than on my XRS.

When I picked up my XRS, it was dead silent inside and since then I've put about 1000km on it, and the only thing that I've noticed is that there is a small rattle on the A-pillar on the driver's side. It goes away if I push everything back together tightly, but comes back after a day or so. It is booked in to get looked at this week.

Kind of disappointing to have a rattle in a brand new car, though it was a very early production car (first month of production). I'm pretty sure it's just a clip or a plastic piece that isn't being held in tightly enough, I'm going to get it fixed one way or another.

Overall I am still very happy/impressed with the vehicle and I understand that there are a lot of parts held in the interior and that going over bumps, etc, can make things come loose. Having a car that remains 100% rattle free forever is pretty much impossible, but having a rattle after 1000km is kind of disappointing, even though it is in a cheaper car.

Love the XRS though.

Funny how all our rattles are on the Driver's left side. It's somewhere by the left tweeter. Maybe the dude who was assembling that part of the car was always sleeping on the job. :smokin:

The utility knife cut may be from dealer PDI... and the scratch in headliner also cause after factory... like auto-hauler etc.

These are things that the dealer should have spotted.

The paint run though sounds like a paint defect that was not sent to repair.

Funny how all our rattles are on the Driver's left side. It's somewhere by the left tweeter. Maybe the dude who was assembling that part of the car was always sleeping on the job. :smokin:

Perhaps, but with mine, it didn't even show up until after I drove it for a few hundred miles, so there would have been no indication at the factory or dealer to know it was there until after I took delivery, unfortunately.

:(

Jeff

My rattle is actually in the back somewhere around the passenger side seat. Actually all of the stuff except the paint is in the same area. It looks to me as if there was work done in that area for some reason and then the car somehow got "moved on". Was told the dealer concentrates mostly on the exterior for pre-delivery. Most of this is hidden cosmetics and unless you were in the back seat and looking directly behind the headrest and then up, you would miss all of this. As both I and a friend did.

when will people understand the old saying... never buy a first year production car. :disappoin

when will people understand the old saying... never buy a first year production car. :disappoin
Guilty as charged! Obviously a lapse in my otherwise decent decision making.

But... the rattle is gone!

Actually, the whole car is gone! Hate to say this, but earlier in the day as I accelerated out of the neighborhood I hit a certain rpm in 3rd gear to produce a crazy buzz from the sunroof area. Repeated regularly as something is loose up there. Not a huge deal, but just another issue to be dealt with. Should also mention that the electric throttle and steering were driving me nuts. So, back to the dealer. I decided to try one of the 2008 models still on the lot. I have to tell you it's a better driving experience and the car is definitely more solid. What it lacks in looks, it definitely makes up for in build quality, reliability, etc. As this is my daily driver, and I already have a little roadster for top down days, I negotiated for the '08. Took a bit of a hit, but with the $1000.00 Eco Rebate from the government, I can live with it. It's worth it not to have to deal with Service on six, oops I mean seven, different fixes.

Good luck with your rides as I'm off to the 9th Gen forum. :)

Well then I hope everything will go well for your 08 'rolla :)

.Eric

when will people understand the old saying... never buy a first year production car. :disappoin

It's the nature of buying a first-production year car. Mine is even first production month, lol.

I knew what I was getting into when I decided to go for it, there's no way I'd ever buy a car with a 1ZZ-FE though, so getting an 07/08 was out of the question.

Jeff

Well then I hope everything will go well for your 08 'rolla :)

.Eric
Thanks mate!

Just need that summer weather and I'm "on the road". Feels like it's just around the corner here in Calgary but I know the East has been clobbered this year.

Also, don't buy a car built on a Monday or a Friday.

Good luck Wisky. I worried about this issue (1st yr) when I got my 07 Tundra. 1yr and 10k miles later, not one problem(knock wood)- Some have had issues with the new Tundra's and it's a problem not isolated to any make or model. All cars, boats, anything for that matter, will have problems from time to time. It'll be months before I get a new small car, if I opt for the Corolla, hopefully any production issues will have been addressed. My experience w/ Toyota's in the past tells me they find and fix the problems, and don't let the buyer's face yrs of frustration. That's one of the reasons the Corolla is my top choice for now.

The other reason I considered a 10th Gen so quickly is that it has been out in other countries for a couple years now, and is just making it's way to North America. I haven't heard of many issues with the 2ZR-FE engine at all in other countries or in the Scion xD. Plus the XRS has the 2AZ-FE engine, which we have had almost zero issues with at work, so I felt confidant in that engine for my car.

I am very happy with my XRS, don't get me wrong. Hopefully the one or two small issues I have with a first month car don't negate that, lol.

Jeff

i have that stupid buzzin too its like the speakers or something. i also have a bit of rattling that sounds like something came loose inside the area where the defrost heat comes from, the vent thing. the factory stereo isnt too bad but man that bass is almost too much. and how come you have a stereo option on a tin can yaris and not a corolla makes no sense. the buzz almost makes the car seem moody. so anyone here know if we can get a dash kit for this car yet.

I think all of you guys are perfectionists. What is that buzzing sound you guys are talking about? Is that the same as the rattling sound? :confused:

One last word before I head over to the 9th Gen section. Picked up the '08 this afternoon and left that disappointing 2009 S at the dealership. The S definitely wins on looks. The '08 wins everywhere else.

Talked to one of their main techs and he says a lot of complaints are already coming in on the electric throttle and steering. The '08 is definitely a better driver's car and has the edge in the "finish" category as well. The additional soundproofing is immediately evident especially if you hit gravel. When they were looking for my main rattle, another technician was shocked at how much less insulation was behind the interior panels. As for the seats, the '09 sport seats are pitiful. I never did get comfortable in that seat. Others have mentioned the same thing. No more side bolster than in the "base" model seats. There is so little padding in the lower back section you can feel some of the active headrest assembly with very light pressure. Now go push on a 2008 seat cushion (any trim level). Got into the '08 and one small adjustment was all it took. No comparison here either.

I have a buddy from the local sports car club who went with me for the S test drive and he drove the '09. I let him drive the '08 today and he freaked. There are points during "spirited" moments where you actually fight the computer. This guy used to race ProAm and I did some SCCA years ago. We both currently have sports cars that see the track. We don't put the Corolla or the Civic in the true "driver's category", but when it comes to a fun commuter/driver, these cars definitely fit the bill.

Did I also mention that both the Toyota and Honda dealers are having trouble with the TPMS in cold weather? One dealer is actually using nitrogen in all their TPMS cars. Don't forget that the spare also has a sensor. Oh yeah, no TPMS in the 2008. That's a good thing as I am looking at wheels from Tire Rack and the TPMS conversion for wheels is like 300 bucks!

BTW, how do you think they offer the higher level 2009's for less than the lower level 2008's? That price difference has to show up somewhere. You KNOW they aren't cutting their profits and letting us pay less for more.

A final word... I still hate the fact that the Toyota dealer, and any dealer for that matter, is one way before they get your signature on the dotted line and after they could care less. This one leaves a bad taste. If the '08 ends up giving me years of carefree ownership, I may forgive them, at least a little. I lost some cash on this 2009/2008 trade, but in the end it was worth it as I feel I sort of "dodged a bullet".

Well, I'm glad you're happy with your choice!

I knew it! I knew there was something wrong with the 09's steering! I always have a hard time keeping it in a straight line or a long curve on the highway. I can't feel the gadam road!

But what's wrong with the throttle? Please explain.

I'm won over the looks. I just hate how the 08's look. And I love how the new one's look. I like a pretty girlfriend who can't answer math problems very well, compared to an ugly girlfriend who's a genius. :naughty:

I knew it! I knew there was something wrong with the 09's steering! I always have a hard time keeping it in a straight line or a long curve on the highway. I can't feel the gadam road!

But what's wrong with the throttle? Please explain.

I'm won over the looks. I just hate how the 08's look. And I love how the new one's look. I like a pretty girlfriend who can't answer math problems very well, compared to an ugly girlfriend who's a genius. :naughty:

You have no gas pedal. At least not in the true sense. There is no longer a direct connection (wire) to the throttle. You simply have two sensors that work in tandem to try and judge what you are doing (input). The computer then decides what to do in terms of output (factoring in best performance AND economy). That's why there is a noticeable lag from input (flooring it) to response (tire reaction). Same with the electric steering. I have been "attacking the apex" for years on the track and on the street. The car doesn't know that. It thinks you are a novice driver at best. When you toss it hard into a turn or boot it on the twisties, it thinks you are overstepping and then compensates whether you like it or not. You will physically feel it in the pedal and hear it in the engine. I took the '09 back to the dealer this afternoon. As I was getting on the freeway, I had to swerve around a woman who stopped dead at the end of the onramp. I had to floor it (pedal to the metal) to get around her and beat the three lanes of traffic bearing down on me. The car hesitated (computer thinking) and then launched when it figured it was "move or die". VERY disconcerting. I have NEVER felt so disconnected from a car and the road.

There's no arguing the '08 is a plain Jane. If I was younger I probably couldn't live with the styling. Now 'tho, I am pretty content with who I am and what I do. I have a job that few can handle (it includes flying military aerobatics). As such, a few mods and "new shoes" will be just about all I need for my "reliable ride". It's not a race car, sports car or tuner car. I did go with black, tinted the windows, and ordered black wheels. Kinda "stealthy" in a way. I guess that if I have the urge/need to "impress", I can always do it in my other car or better yet, in the air!

As for Toyota... if only they could have left the mechanical stuff more or less alone, except for the reworked and/or larger engine. The Corolla just lacked a little "juice" and a lot of styling. From the outside they could have done even more. Oh well. :disappoin

The 2008 and 2009 are both "drive-by-wire" and a lot of people have complained about the throttle lag with the 9th Gen. I don't find the 10th Gen any better or worse really, just something to get used to.

As for the steering, I agree I found the 10th Gen steering to be very disconcerting, until I drove the XRS, it's so much better than the 1.8L models.

I am surprised that you're praising the 9th Gen so much however. Having driven both extensively, I find the 10th Gen to be a much more solid feeling car, and the fit and finish is above that of the 9th Gen. Of any generation of Corolla (excluding the 10th Gen because it is too early), the 9th Gen has definitely had the most problems/issues. From stalling in the middle of an intersection and needing to be towed in, to having the drip rail mouldings already coming off as it comes off the truck. We've replaced so many ECU's in 9th Gen Corollas, it's pretty ridiculous actually. Not to mention the odometer stopping after 299,999. I would go so far as to say that the 9th Gen Corolla is probably the worst-quality Toyota I have ever seen, as far as having things fixed under warranty, etc.

If ever I was going to get a 9th Gen, it would be a 2004 model, before they introduced drive-by-wire, it introduced the lag as well as most of the computer-related issues.

But, alas, as long as you're more happy with your 9th Gen than you were with your 2009, it really doesn't matter!

Jeff

So wait whisky, you're comparing the 10th gen Corolla, which is only in it's first one or two months of production, to the 9th gen, which has been assembled by the same workers for 5 years? Obviously the 9th gen interior will be better built. Give a few months and the build quality of the 10th gen will have improved.

As for comparing the 9th gen and 10th gen, most owners are reporting the ZR 1.8L in the new Corolla is a lot better than the old 1.8L ZZ. A lot of people say the fit and finish is better, the new Corolla feels more solid, and that it's more refined and more quiet than the old 9th gen Corolla.

From what I've heard, the new seats are also better the 9th gen, and the seating position is definitely better.

As for the steering, I agree I found the 10th Gen steering to be very disconcerting, until I drove the XRS, it's so much better than the 1.8L models.

Do you think there are any mechanical differences on the XRS setup or is it just a tweak to the computer parameters to give it more feel?

If it bugs me, I'm kind of hoping it's something a computer firmware update will fix.

There are mechanical differences. The rack is a different ratio, the motor in the column is different and has a different sensor type, and the computer is different.

Jeff

I remember reading now that the rack is different on the XRS.

So wait whisky, you're comparing the 10th gen Corolla, which is only in it's first one or two months of production, to the 9th gen, which has been assembled by the same workers for 5 years? Obviously the 9th gen interior will be better built. Give a few months and the build quality of the 10th gen will have improved.

As for comparing the 9th gen and 10th gen, most owners are reporting the ZR 1.8L in the new Corolla is a lot better than the old 1.8L ZZ. A lot of people say the fit and finish is better, the new Corolla feels more solid, and that it's more refined and more quiet than the old 9th gen Corolla.

From what I've heard, the new seats are also better the 9th gen, and the seating position is definitely better.

Everything's personal preference. I personally find the 09 Corolla way better than my old 04 Corolla in terms of styling and quality. The only thing I can find wrong with it is the drive by wire steering... couldn't feel the road. :sosad:

The 2008 and 2009 are both "drive-by-wire" and a lot of people have complained about the throttle lag with the 9th Gen. I don't find the 10th Gen any better or worse really, just something to get used to.

As for the steering, I agree I found the 10th Gen steering to be very disconcerting, until I drove the XRS, it's so much better than the 1.8L models.

I am surprised that you're praising the 9th Gen so much however. Having driven both extensively, I find the 10th Gen to be a much more solid feeling car, and the fit and finish is above that of the 9th Gen. Of any generation of Corolla (excluding the 10th Gen because it is too early), the 9th Gen has definitely had the most problems/issues. From stalling in the middle of an intersection and needing to be towed in, to having the drip rail mouldings already coming off as it comes off the truck. We've replaced so many ECU's in 9th Gen Corollas, it's pretty ridiculous actually. Not to mention the odometer stopping after 299,999. I would go so far as to say that the 9th Gen Corolla is probably the worst-quality Toyota I have ever seen, as far as having things fixed under warranty, etc.

If ever I was going to get a 9th Gen, it would be a 2004 model, before they introduced drive-by-wire, it introduced the lag as well as most of the computer-related issues.

But, alas, as long as you're more happy with your 9th Gen than you were with your 2009, it really doesn't matter!

Jeff
First off, I am not comparing the CE or the S to the XRS. I know they are both "wire", but the S actually kicked-in several times to "correct" my driving. I have yet to get the 08 to do that. I also don't feel the lag in the 08, but did in "my" 09. As my "S" had so many problems right from the factory, it may just be one of those "problem cars". The seats in the 09 definitely need more lower back support. I don't want to appear to be overpraising the 08. It's just the financially responsible solution out of a seriously, crappy situation. Wish I would have talked to you sooner.

I was originally going for the XRS, but I will be hauling a kayak and it just didn't seem right to put a rack and a "boat" on top of that thing. The S seemed logical and the car is indeed good looking. When all the problems with the S came up, the dealer offered to take it back with a substantial reduction "because the paperwork has gone through". I got the BS line that if I had paid cash, they would be happy to "unwind" the deal. Easy to say when it's "too late". I am heading on an 8 month coast to coast tour shortly and couldn't be bothered with multiple trips in to repair the rattles, wait on Toyota Canada to approve paint and headliner repairs, etc. The car has already been in for two full days and the rattle could not be fixed. When this deal came to a head and I asked "what are you prepared to do to help me out of this"? They basically said the paperwork is done. It's your car. Take it up with Toyota. They wouldn't even contact Toyota on my behalf. Toyota has yet to respond to all of this. As I was between a rock and a hard place, I took the loss and got seriously screwed. OF COURSE I was told there have been NO problems whatsoever with the '08 models. Now you tell me about all these "issues". That's just great. My main intention was quality and reliability in a good looking car. The "S" I got sure wasn't it. To top it all off I got the 08 Corolla and they wrote it up at 1.9 finance. Got home, opened the paper, and there's a half page ad saying 2008 Corollas are at 0% for the month of March. Back ONCE AGAIN to the dealer. Showed the ad to the GM and he's says (with attitude), "You want 0%? Then we write it up again without the 500.00 off that we gave you in the deal!" Wow, a generous 500 off a deal where I am already losing my shirt because I ended up with a sh@# car that no one wants to deal with. The difference with the financing ends up about 250 in the end. I won't tell you how much I actually lost on this deal. I just walked out and will never step on their property again. You don't want to know what I really think of Toyota and their dealerships right now. If I have any problems with this 08, I will go ballistic. This dealer is particularly good at sucking the blood, I mean money, out of you. Great to read on their website "how concerned they are about the customer" and "customer satisfaction is our main goal". Yeah, and on the way hope I saw a bunch of pigs flying!

Bitter? You bet! I actually believed Toyota's President when he apologized to the public and said things will be better. They aren't.

So Jeff, which dealership are you at? Hope you weren't part of this sh@# I just went through.

Wisky, What dealer has jacked you around this much? Toyota Direct in Columbus jacked me in 2000 on a 4Runner, but not last time! Give someone up north a heads up.

So Jeff, which dealership are you at? Hope you weren't part of this sh@# I just went through.

I'm at Stampede Toyota here in Calgary, however I work wholesale/back-counter parts. I mainly deal with the vehicles after they have been purchased and am rarely involved in purchase deals, save for some accessories here and there.

Just mentioning my experiences in the past with the 9th Gen and having to replace parts, I don't think you got the best end of the stick, that's for sure.

Jeff

To me, some people don't drive their brand spanking new car with zero mileage the way they suppose to. Brand new cars suppose to be driven under 65 miles per hour for 500 miles. I know that is a freaking long time but that's how long it takes a computer to program itself to a person's driving habit.

Wisky, What dealer has jacked you around this much? Toyota Direct in Columbus jacked me in 2000 on a 4Runner, but not last time! Give someone up north a heads up.
Canyon Creek

To me, some people don't drive their brand spanking new car with zero mileage the way they suppose to. Brand new cars suppose to be driven under 65 miles per hour for 500 miles. I know that is a freaking long time but that's how long it takes a computer to program itself to a person's driving habit.
Wrong.

To me, some people don't know squat.

I'm at Stampede Toyota here in Calgary, however I work wholesale/back-counter parts. I mainly deal with the vehicles after they have been purchased and am rarely involved in purchase deals, save for some accessories here and there.

Just mentioning my experiences in the past with the 9th Gen and having to replace parts, I don't think you got the best end of the stick, that's for sure.

Jeff
Funny thing is I checked you guys out. Lowballed on my trade. Actually lowest in the city (both Toyota and Honda).

Even funnier? After all this crap with Canyon Creek I would have been ahead taking your super low trade-in offer.

Go figure.

Holà,

Wisky we have owned several toyata corolla and solara over the year in our family and always the first production year. We had rattles all over the place in all cars, not all have been solved by dealers. You will learn to live with it.

I bought 10th gen (corolla S 2009) and I have a rattle over the sunvisor and one in the seatbelt assembly in the B pillar. Steering wheel is scratching on the steering colom when turning making a grinding noise.

You want more, the dealer scratch my paint heavily had to buff the car (rear quarter panel). They had the window tint and scratch me a window (badly), they agree to replace it but I have to wait for it (like a month)

I just don't wan't to be seen as complaining, but I am realating the fact. I bought a new car to avoid mechanical issue and headache I had with so many used car before.

Oh, just to put some on top of it. I forgot about weird engine noise that I am trying to pinpointed. All this is crazy, I assumed I must be living a bad life. :smokin:

I own several cars over the years of different brand and I am not impressed with this one at all. Maybe I should have bought an other Ford! To think I need to keep this one for 5 years make me sick espescially at the price we pay for it in Canada.

So keep on going you are not alone.
Remember, a good remedy to all this is to :chug: or drink a Whisky.

Regards,

Berg
Montreal, Quebec

Bonjour,

Wisky we have owned several toyata corolla and solara over the year in our family and always the first production year. We had rattles all over the place in all cars, not all have been solved by dealers. You will learn to live with it.

I bought 10th gen (corolla S 2009) and I have a rattle over the sunvisor and one in the seatbelt assembly in the B pillar. Steering wheel is scratching on the steering colom when turning making a grinding noise.

You want more, the dealer scratch my paint heavily had to buff the car (rear quarter panel). They had the window tint and scratch me a window (badly), they agree to replace it but I have to wait for it (like a month)

I just don't wan't to be seen as complaining, but I am realating the fact. I bought a new car to avoid mechanical issue and headache I had with so many used car before.

Oh, just to put some on top of it. I forgot about weird engine noise that I am trying to pinpointed. All this is crazy, I assumed I must be living a bad life. :smokin:

I own several cars over the years of different brand and I am not impressed with this one at all. Maybe I should have bought an other Ford! To think I need to keep this one for 5 years make me sick espescially at the price we pay for it in Canada.

So keep on going you are not alone.
Remember, a good remedy to all this is to :chug: or drink a Whisky.

Regards

(it's such a relief to share all this, thanks guys)

Berg
Montreal, Quebec

Oh I can sympathize. I just had by back bumper repainted (they say either not enough paint so the black bumper was showing through or just off paint), The truck deck repainted I have a small intermitant rattle in the front console which is solved by pushing on it and... oh yeah, my passenger side speaker... they forgot to use screws so it fell down. :-) Ah, the wonders of a new beast. I am trying to think of it like buying new jeans... pain in the butt... but eventually they become your ol' comfy favorites (or we always buy them hoping they will). :-)