IL Insider: Lexus Mulls Two Dedicated Hybrid Vehicles

Toyota's upscale Lexus brand is considering the addition of at least two dedicated hybrid vehicles to its rapidly expanding product portfolio, including a premium-priced companion to the Toyota Prius as well as a midsize crossover that could be the industry's first dedicated gas-electric CUV, industry sources tell Inside Line.

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The next-generation Prius, which is slated to go into production in Japan in less than a year, is expected to make its world debut in January at the 2009 Detroit Auto Show.

It will be joined at the Detroit show by a new Lexus hybrid, which may also feature Toyota's first use of advanced lithium-ion batteries in place of the current nickel-metal-hydride system.

It is not known if the Lexus hybrid concept for Detroit will be a crossover or, like the Prius, a five-door hatchback sedan, nor whether its sheet metal will reflect the final production styling.

Inside Line has learned that the new Prius is expected to go on sale in North America in late spring 2009, as a 2010 model. The first dedicated Lexus hybrid won't arrive in dealerships until calendar year 2010, according to Japanese sources. A second Lexus hybrid is tentatively slated for production in 2011.

All three models reportedly will be built on an updated version of Toyota's corporate midsize platform, known internally as MC, which underpins the Camry as well as the Lexus RX. The RX currently is offered in both gas and hybrid variants.

The new hybrids from Toyota and Lexus are expected to be powered by a 1.8-liter four-cylinder gasoline engine mated to an electric motor.

The Lexus companion to the Prius will get unique sheet metal with distinctive Lexus styling cues. It will be equipped with more luxurious features and will likely be priced at more than $30,000, according to Japanese press reports...Source: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=126395
(http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=126395)
The next Prius is to be based upon the Camry's platform, and be powered by a 1.8-litre (the Corolla's 2ZR?) and electric motors? That would be a big car. It would have to be a powerful hybrid system.

Seems like it would compete with the Camry Hybrid then if its based on that platform, and its QUITE big too. Interesting bit about the Lexus. The Prius isn't cheap already, wonder how much they would want to charge for the Lexus version.

And since they mentioned about a updated version of the Camry MC platform, anyone wanna wager than the facelifted Camry will be shown side by side with the new Prius?

yeah I'm disaapointed that they "grew" up the prius...

Why does every car have to get LARGER each iteration?

Honda's doing a FIT Hybrid. Where's Toyota's Yaris Hybrid? or Corolla Hybrid?

There's no need to have 2 "camry" hybrids... one with a 2.4, and one with a 1.8.

As a commuter car, a Yaris 3 dr will do... add Hybrid system to that. It still has the 1.5 liter so it's all good.

Seems like it would compete with the Camry Hybrid then if its based on that platform, and its QUITE big too. Interesting bit about the Lexus. The Prius isn't cheap already, wonder how much they would want to charge for the Lexus version.

And since they mentioned about a updated version of the Camry MC platform, anyone wanna wager than the facelifted Camry will be shown side by side with the new Prius?

yeah I'm disaapointed that they "grew" up the prius...

Why does every car have to get LARGER each iteration?

Honda's doing a FIT Hybrid. Where's Toyota's Yaris Hybrid? or Corolla Hybrid?

There's no need to have 2 "camry" hybrids... one with a 2.4, and one with a 1.8.

As a commuter car, a Yaris 3 dr will do... add Hybrid system to that. It still has the 1.5 liter so it's all good.

I am sure that the new Prius, even if it is based upon the Camry platform, will be different enough that it will NOT be just another Camry Hybrid. Perhaps the platform will be shrunk for use in the new Prius (just as it was stretched for use in the current Avalon and Highlander), to make it smaller and lighter than the Camry Hybrid. Plus, using the Camry platform -- which seems to be used under so many other vehicles (Avalon, Highlander, next-gen Lexus RX, Lexus ES, new Venza, ...) -- would reduce development costs, making the new Prius more affordable.

Yes, Honda is talking about a hybrid Fit, but the Jazz/Fit is a new vehicle, so was probably designed with the hybrid option in mind. The Yaris is now an older design, so it may not have been designed with a hybrid option in mind, so it would be difficult, if not impossible, to add a relatively large and heavy hybrid battery to it. As for a Corolla Hybrid, who knows? Only time will tell.

yeah I'm disaapointed that they "grew" up the prius...

Why does every car have to get LARGER each iteration?

Honda's doing a FIT Hybrid. Where's Toyota's Yaris Hybrid? or Corolla Hybrid?

There's no need to have 2 "camry" hybrids... one with a 2.4, and one with a 1.8.

As a commuter car, a Yaris 3 dr will do... add Hybrid system to that. It still has the 1.5 liter so it's all good.

No idea but the current Prius is larger, more powerful, more fuel efficient etc etc than the 1st Gen. Also it doesn't have to be the size of the Camry. It's expected to be Corolla-sized in length (it's currenty 3 inches shorter than a Corolla)

Seems like it would compete with the Camry Hybrid then if its based on that platform, and its QUITE big too. Interesting bit about the Lexus. The Prius isn't cheap already, wonder how much they would want to charge for the Lexus version.

Maybe IS money so that it can (sorta) replaced the IS300 SportCross (if it turns out to be a hatchback). The thing is, that's good for us Prius owners cause that means we can benefit from some Lexus stuff (like the Camry does to the ES)

Toyota said they will make a Prius sub-brand. So that means you don't have to buy the bigger gen3 one. You can get a Yaris sized one eventually.:thumbup:

No point in making a Yaris Hybrid. Who would want to buy a $25k Yaris? I see the Fit Hybrid dying a horrible death (like it's predecessor Honda Hybrid) on the showroom floor when they try to ask well over $20k for something that already sips gas through a stir stick. You;d have to drive the dang thing 500k miles just to recoup your fuel costs.

No point in making a Yaris Hybrid. Who would want to buy a $25k Yaris? I see the Fit Hybrid dying a horrible death (like it's predecessor Honda Hybrid) on the showroom floor when they try to ask well over $20k for something that already sips gas through a stir stick. You;d have to drive the dang thing 500k miles just to recoup your fuel costs.


I said Yaris size. So it would be equivalent to a Yaris diesel in some respects (mpg). I'm guessing the price will reflect the size. So maybe 15k and up. Toyota has made it clear they want to make this hybrid system not only cheaper to make and economical but also cheaper price for the customer. So I'm guess down the line by then they are able to sell "cheap hybrids." as it will be a more developed technology. I'm guessing the bigger Prius will be around 20 to 25k. Who know's if that will be much with inflation by that time, if that makes sense. Of course with the economy who's know where we will be at. Hopefully better of course.

Cheers!:thumbup:

No point in making a Yaris Hybrid. Who would want to buy a $25k Yaris? I see the Fit Hybrid dying a horrible death (like it's predecessor Honda Hybrid) on the showroom floor when they try to ask well over $20k for something that already sips gas through a stir stick. You;d have to drive the dang thing 500k miles just to recoup your fuel costs.

You mean the Honda Insight Hybrid? That is a good point. North American buyers are very price-sensitive, especially when it comes to smaller cars, which explains why our compact and sub-compact cars (Corolla and Yaris sizes, respectively) do not come with as many "luxury" features as are available elsewhere.

So, there is very unlikely to be a market for a Yaris (or Yaris-sized) hybrid because it would just be too expensive, and the (small) incremental decrease in fuel use would likely be too little to justify the extra cost. Over $20k (at current prices) for a small car that has been made effectively smaller and heavier due to the addition of the hybrid battery pack just would not sell in large enough numbers to be profitable.

What likely makes the Prius such a success (especially the Gen2 model) is that it is family-car sized, yet has the fuel usage of a much smaller car -- have your cake and eat it too.

But perhaps a very mild hybrid Yaris, something with auto-stop / idle-stop technology that would automatically turn off the engine when the car is stopped and the engine idling (at a stoplight, for instance) and automatically turn it back on when the accelerator is pressed again, would work. That is a technology that I know BMW (and other European automakers) is working on. I would like to see auto-stop technology available as standard equipment (and it would teach a lesson to those people who leave their cars idling for 15 or 20 minutes while waiting for someone).

No point in making a Yaris Hybrid. Who would want to buy a $25k Yaris? I see the Fit Hybrid dying a horrible death (like it's predecessor Honda Hybrid) on the showroom floor when they try to ask well over $20k for something that already sips gas through a stir stick. You;d have to drive the dang thing 500k miles just to recoup your fuel costs.

And why is it $25k? A Prius starts at $20k. What makes you think it'll be more expensive than the larger Prius with more equipment? A loaded Prius is about $28k.

And why are you talking about cost recouperation? Do you tell the person he would've needed to drive 500k in order to recoup the cost of a B200 over a Matrix? a C-Class over a Corolla? an E-Class over a Camry? No you wouldn't.


If you're talking about the Insight, it's because people don't see value added in the price. The American market is very self-centred. If they're paying for something, they want everyone to know they paid for it. Stuff like leather seats, fancy alloys, HID Xenons, navigation. Those are things that "regular" people will see and admire. "Regular" folks won't notice stuff like covered trunk hinges, hood struts, felt-lined interior door handle grip, damped overhead assist grips etc etc.

The Insight's body is an aluminium monocoque. The next car is the XJ, A8 then the NSX so it's with exquisite company. The alloys are lightweight aluminium and has a 1.0 litre lean-burn engine. The older NiMH technology didn't help but the fact that you can hit 70mpg is amazing. Too bad it's a 2 seater which made it impractical compared to the Prius although it could serve as a commuter car.

I am sure that the new Prius, even if it is based upon the Camry platform, will be different enough that it will NOT be just another Camry Hybrid. Perhaps the platform will be shrunk for use in the new Prius (just as it was stretched for use in the current Avalon and Highlander), to make it smaller and lighter than the Camry Hybrid. Plus, using the Camry platform -- which seems to be used under so many other vehicles (Avalon, Highlander, next-gen Lexus RX, Lexus ES, new Venza, ...) -- would reduce development costs, making the new Prius more affordable.

Yes, Honda is talking about a hybrid Fit, but the Jazz/Fit is a new vehicle, so was probably designed with the hybrid option in mind. The Yaris is now an older design, so it may not have been designed with a hybrid option in mind, so it would be difficult, if not impossible, to add a relatively large and heavy hybrid battery to it. As for a Corolla Hybrid, who knows? Only time will tell.

We will see about the shortened part, however either ways it doesn't seem too change much other than size. While you change the length and maybe width of a platform, my experience tells me it generally stays within a certain weight because while they shorten it, the general structures holding the chassis up and together are still there, contributing to most of the weight?