Toyota developing massive diesel V8

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=126532


In addition, the automaker will offer a new version of its existing 4.7-liter V8 that will run on E85 ethanol.

The 7.0-liter V8 diesel has been engineered as the workhorse unit in a new heavy-duty edition of the Tundra pickup that's tentatively slated for production in 2011-'12

Diesel fans rejoice....! ;)

Dodge, chevy, ford.... any fear to compete with a heavy duty toyota pickup ?.... Or maybe will never happen. :rolleyes:

I think Toyota should concentrate on making a small diesel car. a 1.3L diesel in a Yaris hatchback should easily get 55mpg and cost 1/2 that of a Prius.

I think Toyota should concentrate on making a small diesel car. a 1.3L diesel in a Yaris hatchback should easily get 55mpg and cost 1/2 that of a Prius.


I agree. Although I think it would get more than 55mpg. Maybe 55 for the lower end.


But it is good Toyota is coming out with a diesel. Who knows how much that will cost by then, its already higher than gas. I'm sure commercial companies would like them but with gas prices rising Toyota is playing on thin ice as far as return on this stuff. I know people will buy them but that market is shrinking.
Hopefully the economy gets better.

I think Toyota should concentrate on making a small diesel car. a 1.3L diesel in a Yaris hatchback should easily get 55mpg and cost 1/2 that of a Prius.

Toyota already offers several diesel engines in the Yaris in Europe and other surrounding markets. They just don't offer it here.

A diesel Yaris cannot be 1/2 the cost of a Prius, because diesel engines are more expensive to build and engineer than gas engines. The additional cost of a diesel engine over a gas engine (keeping in mind stringent modern emissions) is roughly similar to the cost of a hybrid system.

As for the 7.0L diesel V8, sounds like in typical Toyota fashion, they plan on surprising the market and competition and have mostly been keeping tight lipped about future products. The 4.5L diesel is already confirmed by Toyota, but the 7.0L is not confirmed yet. This does however bring back the old rumour from 2004 that Toyota was developing a large diesel engine to put into a proposed HD Tundra.

I think Toyota should concentrate on making a small diesel car. a 1.3L diesel in a Yaris hatchback should easily get 55mpg and cost 1/2 that of a Prius.

Toyota can, since they offer multiple diesel engines in their Toyotas in Europe. Like the Avensis and Vitz.

Diesel in North America isn't too popular enough to have Toyota import them here. Big trucks would make sense, but having them in a car isn't a big thing for Toyota or any other manufactures except for Volkswagon and M-Benz since they offer diesel engine for their cars.

7.0 diesel?!?! damn... and I thought the V10 Touareg TDI was huge.

This all sounds very interesting. Our corporate guy that comes and sees us at the dealership has mentioned a few times about diesels but nothing more concrete than to say that it most likely will come out sometime after GM and Isuzu part ways and the next gen duramax comes to the tundra line up exclusively for now as the HD Tundra.

7.0 diesel?!?! damn... and I thought the V10 Touareg TDI was huge.

:D

Does everybody here agrees that the strategy should be to make smaller cars like the yaris diesel instead of focusing on making diesels big boys like the tundra and alike?

:D

Does everybody here agrees that the strategy should be to make smaller cars like the yaris diesel instead of focusing on making diesels big boys like the tundra and alike?
Yep. In Cali, diesel is 10% more expensive than gasoline. However, a small diesel car is about 35% more efficient than a comprable car that runs on gasoline. Diesel engines also last longer than gas.

:D

Does everybody here agrees that the strategy should be to make smaller cars like the yaris diesel instead of focusing on making diesels big boys like the tundra and alike?

Yep. In Cali, diesel is 10% more expensive than gasoline. However, a small diesel car is about 35% more efficient than a comprable car that runs on gasoline. Diesel engines also last longer than gas.

I don't think it is that simple, that black-and-white. All vehicles will need to be more fuel efficient, from the smallest, such as the Yaris, up to the largest, such as the Tundra. And, there is a need for the full range of vehicles: some people will be satisfied with a small car like the Yaris; others, like construction companies, yard maintenance companies (that may hook a large blade on the front to allow the truck to be used as a snowplow in Canadian winters), and such, need a full-size truck like the Tundra. More people may buy Yaris cars than buy Tundra trucks, but that does not mean that there will no longer be a market for the Tundra.

And, with a 35% fuel savings regardless of the size of the vehicle, the large diesel Tundra will save more fuel per vehicle than the diesel Yaris. So, the user of the Tundra may find that it takes less time to pay off the higher cost of the diesel Tundra than the user of the diesel Yaris. So, the diesel Tundra may be a better buy than the diesel Yaris, and the diesel Tundra sell much better than the diesel Yaris, enough so that Toyota can justify selling a diesel Tundra, but cannot justify selling a diesel Yaris.

A diesel has more BTU per gallon of gas that's why it uses less.

It's like saying hydrogen is less fuel efficient than a gas car but you still see them pushing for fuel cells.

diesel here in the US is also more expensive than it is in europe it is also less efficient here in the states killing its better economy

the additives and detergents that are forced into diesel here in the states kill any offset of better fuel economy

the aditives dont improve MPG they lessen it, but they burn cleaner thoe.

in europe they dont have strict rules for diesel like they do here.

so of courcediesel will seem like a better alternative

also the lobbyst(sp) and other alike i believe have something against diesel here in the US
brining diesels into the US cost alot more than it does in other areas

So, the diesel Tundra may be a better buy than the diesel Yaris, and the diesel Tundra sell much better than the diesel Yaris, enough so that Toyota can justify selling a diesel Tundra, but cannot justify selling a diesel Yaris.
Majority of Tundra (full size pick up) drivers do NOT ever see a dirt road or even use the truck for "work" purposes.

Nearly all Trudra drivers I see are just by themselves in the truck hauling NOTHING. Sure they may pick up their 30lb toddler from day care and drop them off home after his wife dropped the kid off earlier in her Sequoia. Most SUV and pick up truck drivers can live fine with a Yaris and get DOUBLE the mpg. However their main concern is to look "cool" and "rugged" despite being obese and beaten pretty badly by time.

And people who really do need to do some hauling drive trucks from the Big 3, and a much as I love Toyotas, toyota just can't match them.

Majority of Tundra (full size pick up) drivers do NOT ever see a dirt road or even use the truck for "work" purposes.

Nearly all Trudra drivers I see are just by themselves in the truck hauling NOTHING. Sure they may pick up their 30lb toddler from day care and drop them off home after his wife dropped the kid off earlier in her Sequoia. Most SUV and pick up truck drivers can live fine with a Yaris and get DOUBLE the mpg. However their main concern is to look "cool" and "rugged" despite being obese and beaten pretty badly by time.

And people who really do need to do some hauling drive trucks from the Big 3, and a much as I love Toyotas, toyota just can't match them.

Theoretically, the Yaris should be fine for me, with a small, young family, but the reverse-facing infant seat (the type that is removed from the car each time the baby gets out of the car) that my son needs right now, and its accompanying stroller, just would not fit in the Yaris. I am not sure that it would fit comfortably in a Corolla either, unless the front passenger seat were pushed up so close to the instrument panel that the passenger riding there would be uncomfortable. Even then, it is unlikely that the stroller would fit in the small trunk opening. Even with the (Gen6) Camry, it is a tight fit through the trunk opening.

I see the Yaris as great for owners who regularly only have the driver and maybe one passenger, and only the occasional rear-seat passengers. But for young families that do need the back seat and cargo area, it is not suitable; young families really do need a larger car these days, with all the kids' stuff that is regularly hauled around.

And your point about the majority of Tundra owners rarely ever needing the full capabilities of that truck is not just a Toyota problem. All car makers that build full-size pickup trucks face the same problem. They would -- and are -- all losing sales of full-size pickup trucks.

My point was that the diesel Tundra, compared to the gas Tundra, would save more fuel (and therefore more dollars) than a diesel Yaris compared to a gas Yaris, so the diesel Tundra would be a better buy than a diesel
Yaris. Looked at from that perspective, it is more likely that Toyota would try to sell a diesel Tundra before they try to sell a diesel Yaris in North America. There just would not be great enough demand for a diesel Yaris.

^^^ As much as I would love a diesel Yaris the cost of diesel being at or higher than premium gas would off set the benifits or at least the margin of savings won't be as great as thought. But still it would be nice.

But CARB and other crap won't let that happen. Obviously the expensive Merc has been able to pass it with its BluTech engine. I hope VW comes out with a TDI Polo to the U.S. I'd seriously look into that despite VW's craptastic dealers and reliability.

Sulu, my prof has a young family (just one baby boy... ok not really a baby but still a few years old) and he has a Yaris. So maybe it'll just get by if you have one kid cause then you can use the other rear seat to carry stuff or the mum can sit in the back and tend to the baby. But yeah once you have two kids, you're gonna need a trunk that can carry the stuff.

Sulu, my prof has a young family (just one baby boy... ok not really a baby but still a few years old) and he has a Yaris. So maybe it'll just get by if you have one kid cause then you can use the other rear seat to carry stuff or the mum can sit in the back and tend to the baby. But yeah once you have two kids, you're gonna need a trunk that can carry the stuff.

Tideland, an aside... I never really thought about all of this before, but now that I fit all this baby stuff in my Camry (which I had before the little one came along), I do not see how I could have done it with a smaller vehicle. I doubt that it would all fit comfortably in my wife's last-gen Civic, for instance.

The current one and only one baby already takes up a large amount of space in the car. There is the complete "travel system" consisting of the rear-facing, removable infant seat, and the big stroller on which the seat sits when we take it (and the baby) out of the car.

Admittedly, we bought the larger travel system that is meant for bigger babies (fortunately, we did), but still, it would take up a lot of space. The infant seat takes up a lot of fore-aft space in the back seat, so that the front passenger seat cannot be pushed back further than my front passengers would typically like to do (for comfort, and to make sure I have a clear view out the front passenger-side window). Fortunately, not doing so in the Camry is not torture for anyone in the front. The stroller takes up more than half the trunk space in the Camry, and it is a bit difficult to wrangle in and out because of the limited size of the trunk opening. Having a hatchback or station wagon, or even a SUV or CUV (I have thought about a new RAV4) would make loading and unloading the stroller easier, of course, but I think the Yaris Hatchback's cargo area would be too small for the stroller. The stroller stays in the car, and to that, we may add groceries, or other baby stuff when we go visiting. Even if the stroller would fit in the Yaris, I doubt that it and all the other stuff would fit.

When Baby grows up and moves out of the rear-facing infant seat and into a forward-facing seat, and out of the big, bulky stroller into one of those portable fold-up ones, we may fit in the Yaris, but if another comes along...

So, yes, no matter how nice it would be to drive a Yaris, I just cannot do it now, unless we have a family vehicle (a station wagon, which, unfortunately, Toyota does not make available in North America, or CUV would be "ideal"), and I have the Yaris as my own, personal commuter vehicle. Hey, not a bad thought! If my wife promises to only ever drive the family vehicle, I could get my Yaris, and with a manual transmission!

Back on topic... A diesel-powered Toyota station wagon would be nice! (Will Toyota ever consider bringing over the diesel Avensis wagon or an Avensis Verso? Even a diesel Corolla wagon or Verso would be nice.) :):)

mmhmm. Well a Matrix will certainly be a better choice imo since it has a lot more cargo space and still fairly fuel efficient. If you want to go all out, there's the Venza coming out this autumn lol.

Anyway yes a diesel station wagon. What if BMW put the 335d into its Touring model? heh heh heh.

diesel here in the US is also more expensive than it is in europe it is also less efficient here in the states killing its better economy

the additives and detergents that are forced into diesel here in the states kill any offset of better fuel economy

the aditives dont improve MPG they lessen it, but they burn cleaner thoe.

in europe they dont have strict rules for diesel like they do here.

so of courcediesel will seem like a better alternative

also the lobbyst(sp) and other alike i believe have something against diesel here in the US
brining diesels into the US cost alot more than it does in other areas

European diesel has been cleaner than U.S. diesel for quite some time now, so we here in the U.S. were playing catch up with Europe. This is the only reason MB and VW can release their diesel engines in the U.S. because the U.S. federal government finally mandated clean diesel in 2007 for all on-highway vehicles. This way, European diesels no longer have to be redesigned to use U.S. dirty diesel. Unforunately, to comply with CA emission standards for diesel engines in 2010, automakers are using urea injection in the exhaust to reduce particulate matter to nearly zero.

However, our diesel is still a little dirtier than European diesel in terms of sulfur PPM. We allow 15ppm in our ULSD, while the EU only allows 50ppm for Euro IV standards and 10ppm to be available for the Euro V standard as of 2005. 10ppm diesel is widely available for use in Europe, and countries like Germany are producing sulfur free diesel with less than 10ppm of sulfur and it generally averages out to about 3-5ppm. Euro V is expected to be standardized by 2009.

Even at $5+ a gallon, diesels are still more efficient than gasoline engines. Gas is hovering around $4.40 around CA, so the efficiency of diesel engines still outweighs the cost of diesel gas.

I don't think it is that simple, that black-and-white. All vehicles will need to be more fuel efficient, from the smallest, such as the Yaris, up to the largest, such as the Tundra. And, there is a need for the full range of vehicles: some people will be satisfied with a small car like the Yaris; others, like construction companies, yard maintenance companies (that may hook a large blade on the front to allow the truck to be used as a snowplow in Canadian winters), and such, need a full-size truck like the Tundra. More people may buy Yaris cars than buy Tundra trucks, but that does not mean that there will no longer be a market for the Tundra.

And, with a 35% fuel savings regardless of the size of the vehicle, the large diesel Tundra will save more fuel per vehicle than the diesel Yaris. So, the user of the Tundra may find that it takes less time to pay off the higher cost of the diesel Tundra than the user of the diesel Yaris. So, the diesel Tundra may be a better buy than the diesel Yaris, and the diesel Tundra sell much better than the diesel Yaris, enough so that Toyota can justify selling a diesel Tundra, but cannot justify selling a diesel Yaris.

Unfortunately, regarding my question, yes it is that simple.
Why? easy once again, because everyone before I posted was talking about making small cars fuel efficient, diesel like. So that was the strategy people was talking about, so that was what my question was about.


By the way, talking about a diesel yaris versus diesel tundra towards fuel savings, yes, once again, it is that simple, not need to say so many words, all comes down to this, diesel tundra will save more fuel per vehicle.

But, when u take into account the many factors involved in the purchase and more important, MAINTENANCE of a vehicle and the VOLUME of sales each car has, aint that easy to just say, ok lets make only diesel tundras and not offer diesel yaris.