Could Toyota become #1 in the US?

This article seems to think so

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/flowchart/2008/06/09/how-toyota-could-become-the-us-sales-champ.html


There's little doubt that Toyota (http://www.usnews.com/articles/business/economy/2008/05/27/how-toyota-plans-to-survive-4--make-that-5--gas-.html) will displace General Motors as the world's biggest automaker when 2008 sales are finally tallied. GM edged out its Japanese rival in 2007, but the American giant continues to struggle with a drawn-out turnaround plan and billions in losses. Toyota, by contrast, has been growing virtually everywhere it does business, with record profits in 2007. Ascending to No. 1 worldwide seems inevitable.

Now, here's a startling new possibility: Toyota could overtake GM in its home market, the first time ever that a foreign company would be the No. 1 seller of cars in the United States. Only a few months ago, that seemed implausible. Toyota's market share had grown consistently, to about 16 percent of the U.S. market at the end of 2007. But GM still had a commanding lead, with 23 percent of the market. And share swings of more than a point or two in a given year are rare.

But car sales this year have flipped more dramatically than anybody anticipated, and suddenly Toyota is within striking distance of GM. In May, Toyota's market share surged to 18.4 percent, according to J.D. Power & Associates, as buyers flocked to small, efficient cars like the Corolla, Yaris, and Scion xB. Sales of GM pickups and SUVs plummeted, leaving GM with 19.3 percent of the market—less than a single point above Toyota. And GM recently announced it will close four plants (http://www.usnews.com/blogs/flowchart/2008/6/3/what-gms-downsizing-means-for-drivers.html) and curtail production of light trucks by about 40 percent. Those developments could reorder the U.S. auto industry. Some possible scenarios:

Toyota bounces GM. Toyota's sales have actually declined by 3.5 percent so far in 2007—but that's a strong performance compared with GM's 16 percent decline, which is why Toyota's market share is rising sharply. In May alone, the sales gap was much bigger: GM's sales plunged by 28 percent, compared with a mere 4.3 percent drop for Toyota. Like GM, Toyota is suffering from a severe drop in sales of big vehicles like the Tundra pickup and the 4Runner SUV. But GM is far more dependent on big vehicles, and Toyota has a much stronger lineup of small cars and crossovers.
If the pronounced shift in buying patterns continues, Toyota's market share could eclipse GM's on a monthly basis through the summer or fall. But GM will probably retain more market share for '08 overall, given that it started the year much stronger than it is now. As for 2009—that could be a close race.

http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/2905/123vv1.png

GM rebounds. May was a wild month for car sales, with several developments that stunned analysts. Sales of big pickup trucks, for instance, fell below 10 percent of the total for the first time in decades. Compact cars (http://www.usnews.com/blogs/flowchart/2008/05/16/why-small-cars-are-a-smart-buy.html), which usually represent about 15 percent of the market, rose to more than 20 percent. And sales of large vehicles fell by a staggering 36 percent. "We rarely see swings like that," says Tom Libby of J.D. Power. "The question is whether May was the beginning of a trend or an aberration."
Libby tends to think it was an aberration, since research suggests gas prices would have to stay near $4 per gallon (http://www.usnews.com/blogs/flowchart/2008/5/28/5-upsides-of-4-gas.html) for a year before such abrupt changes in buying habits become permanent. So far, they've been near that level only for a couple of months. If Libby's right, car sales over the summer won't be weighted so heavily against larger vehicles, which would pad GM's market share. But others see it differently—most notably, GM CEO Rick Wagoner, who said in May that rising gas prices and changes in the U.S. car market are "more structural than cyclical."

Honda surges. Honda may be in an even better position that Toyota, because it has no full-size trucks or SUVs to weigh down sales. And its numbers prove it. Total industry sales are down about 8 percent so far this year. Honda's are up 5 percent. And for the first time ever, the thrifty Civic was the top-selling overall vehicle in May. Honda's market share has risen from 9.3 percent a year ago to 12 percent, surpassing Chrysler. It could even pass No. 3 Ford on a monthly basis by the end of the year.

Ford and Chrysler recede. This seems likely under any scenario, at least through the end of '08. Ford, heavily reliant on the F-150 pickup and SUVs like the Explorer, has the same big-truck problem as GM. Many analysts think Ford plans to ax its Mercury brand, which could cost a full percentage point of market share. Newer vehicles like the Edge, Fusion, and Focus will help, but Ford needs more of them, and it will take awhile. Chrysler—once one of the "Big Three"—is now the fifth-largest U.S. carmaker and drifting further. A $2.99 gas-price guarantee promotion was supposed to goose sales—but instead, they fell 25 percent in May. If discounted gas doesn't help sell cars, it's hard to know what will.

I laugh everyday as I leave and hear the ford and chevy dealers trying so hard to give their dinosuars away,best so far is ford you buy a guzzler and get 3 yrs of .99 cent fuel.chevy has 1 yr free payments and gas. I turn left by garber chevy and see those monsters still setting ther collecting dust and just laugh at the knucklehead necks that are still looking to buy USA produced junk. toyota will over take chevy in a short while its inevitable!

Not only could Toyota become #1 in the US, I think its only a matter of time. The price of oil is not expected to go back down anytime soon, so $4 or more for a gallon of gas is a reality that we all are just going to have to get used to.
If that is indeed the case, I think that not only will you see GM fall to #2 in US sales, I think you could even see them fall to #3 (with Honda replacing them as #2).
Toyota's sales could be considerably better than they are now if they were able to keep up with the demand for the Prius.
The "experts" have always said that if the sales of big trucks and SUVs goes sour that the Detroit 3 are screwed. Well, guess what? The sales of big trucks and SUVs have gone sour.
While I dont doubt that Ford and GM will make great small cars and crossover SUVs, I dont seem them being able to beat Toyota and Honda.
Look at the Ford Focus vs the Corolla. Both are new models and the Focus is a very nice car, but the Corolla still beats it in sales.
The way I see it, Ford, GM and Chryler have all the can handle just to stay in business. I dont expect them to come out with enough new, exciting models to be able to compete with Toyota and Honda.

I have a feeling hyundai will become a VERY big name soon also... they are making some amazing cars lately especially in comparison to their past vehicles

Bakemono Very good points. The Focus is a good car but that was like 8 years ago. The fact that its butt ugly and rides on a 9 year old platform doesn't make it that great.

I have a feeling hyundai will become a VERY big name soon also... they are making some amazing cars lately especially in comparison to their past vehicles

Agreed. The new Sonata looks mouthwatering.

There was time when I would never have thought Toyota could beat GM on its own turf. But it will likely happen (and probably within a few years). It's pretty sad, unlike many who post here, I think GM or Ford going under would be tragic. :disappoin

More unemployment for Americans and Canadians?

:ohyeah::chug::woot::banger::thumbsup::rockon:

Bakemono Very good points. The Focus is a good car but that was like 8 years ago. The fact that its butt ugly and rides on a 9 year old platform doesn't make it that great.

Exactly the point I was going to make. The North American Focus is a face-lifted version of the original European Focus, now almost a decade old. Too bad Ford refused to bring over the current Euro (Gen2) Focus; they could at least have cut some costs by assembling it in North America rather than importing it from Europe.

At least the next-gen Focus (Gen3) due out within the next few years will once again be an international vehicle, as Ford has said that it will be coming here (if I remember correctly).

There was time when I would never have thought Toyota could beat GM on its own turf. But it will likely happen (and probably within a few years). It's pretty sad, unlike many who post here, I think GM or Ford going under would be tragic. :disappoin

I agree that it would be very sad if GM and Ford (and Chrysler) were to go under, but they cannot blame anyone but themselves. Unlike their European operations, the North American operations were poorly managed:

They put all their eggs (large trucks and truck-based SUVs) in one basket, the first thing you learn NOT to do when investing. Toyota and Nissan, for example, have both cars AND trucks, so now that trucks are not selling, they can shift production to cars. (And Toyota, Nissan and Honda have flexible manufacturing facilities, so that they can quickly and easily shift production from one vehicle to another, something that the Domestic 3 still lacks in great numbers.)
They could not make other product that the buying public wanted to buy without losing money on it. The first lesson of a product company is to make something you can sell to your customer, and make a profit from it. If GM could not make money selling cars on 20-year old platforms (the Sunfire, etc.), they deserve to go under. Toyota is perhaps the other extreme (refusing to sell anything that will NOT make a profit), but because of good management, it is likely to beat GM worldwide, and maybe in America soon.

but they cannot blame anyone but themselves. Unlike their European operations, the North American operations were poorly managed

You're somewhat right, but the biggest factors on why American car companies are sinking are:

Unions: Unions are destroying the big 3. They're extorting the manufacturers and bleeding them dry. They have ridiculously lavish pension plans for their employees.

Unprotected American auto industry: Japan has quotas and huge tariff on vehicles that enter their port. They limit how many cars a foreign manufacturer can bring in even if it's highly successful. They also slap foreign vehicles with big taxes. Here in the U.S., the "import" cars are often cheaper than in countries where they are made. They simply aren't slapped with a tariff.

Corrupt politicians: Our corrupt politicains permit our auto industry to be ravaged by foreign companies. Their priority is to get their bribe money from foreign companies rather than protect American jobs. Corrupt politicians also allow foreign entities to buy up our industry and MANY industrialized nations PROHIBITS the selling of their industry to foreign entities.

Greedy CEOs and share holders: If moving a Ford plant from Detroit to Mexico will generate a $200 million profit... the dirty bastards will do it. If it means that the CEO will get an extra $50 million/year, 3 mansions, 4 gulfstreams... they will do it, despite killing American jobs.

Sure you can say, "Well they deserve it." Well... the CEOs and the share holders and the union leaders do deserve to go broke and live in skid row. However, the victims will always be the worker who is trying to earn a living so they can feed and house their family.

Corrupt politicians: Our corrupt politicains permit our auto industry to be ravaged by foreign companies. Their priority is to get their bribe money from foreign companies rather than protect American jobs.




http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b101/dana_15/conspiracy.jpg

The domestics have no one to blame but themselves for the situation they are in. They spent the past two decades building SUVs and ignoring almost every other segment in the auto industry and now they are paying the price. By doing that the domestics left the car segments open for the imports to come in and get a hold on the market.

Ford had a great car in the Taurus but kept it the same for a decade then made it look like a dead fish. GM and Chrysler put so little time into their cars it was painfully obvious in their vehicles lack of quality.

It is rediculous for anyone to suggest that we support these inept companies just because they are American. There are millions of companies in America that have bad business plans and go out of business should we give our money to those others too or just GM, Ford and Chrysler because they are so big?

More unemployment for Americans and Canadians?

:ohyeah::chug::woot::banger::thumbsup::rockon:

No way dude our industry will go from first world to second and third world in some areas that all the car manufacturers will be using us for cheap labor =D
cheap jobs for everybooty :clap:

You're somewhat right, but the biggest factors on why American car companies are sinking are:

Unions: Unions are destroying the big 3. They're extorting the manufacturers and bleeding them dry. They have ridiculously lavish pension plans for their employees.


i agree with you 100 percent
why do you think toyota plants destroy any unions from showing up
and the local goverment also stops it becouse if the plant unionises toyota packs up and leaves :lol:

thats why i love right to work states
no unions are good
this isnt the old ages where companys payed pennys

this is the new age
and in several areas unions are no longer needed

unions just make lazy workers

As much as I love GM, they have done this to themselves. While Toyota was busy producing cars like the Prius, Corolla and Camry, GM was investing all their money into their large trucks and SUV's. Yes GM has the Yukon/Tahoe Hybrid, sales have been slow so far and that money should have been invested into the Malibu/Aura as a holdover until the Volt comes out in 2010/2011. Those cars use a very uneffective hybird system which nets a 1-2MPG advantage over their standard gasoline counterparts. Not exactly a grand slam.

I hope GM is able to pull themselves out of this rut. They really make some great cars. But for every good car, there are 2 or 3 that are mediocre at best.

There was time when I would never have thought Toyota could beat GM on its own turf. But it will likely happen (and probably within a few years). It's pretty sad, unlike many who post here, I think GM or Ford going under would be tragic. :disappoin
It would be very tragic if Ford and GM were to go under. Just think of all the people it would put out of work. Not just the people who work directly for Ford and GM, but all the smaller companies like Lear who supply parts to Ford and GM.
I want to see Ford and GM do well, I just dont want them to do quite as well as Toyota. :D
I very much resent the mentality that just because we are living in the United States that we are obligated to buy from American automakers. The Detroit 3 have been doing business with the Japanese for years. Why cant we? The Detroit 3 have proven time and time again that they will sell-out the American working class and move their factories overseas if it means making a profit. If they arent going to be loyal to us, why should we be loyal to them?
I also dont feel sorry for the Detroit 3 and the problems they are having. The have known for decades that eventually oil prices would go up and that the days of big trucks and SUVs would be over. Instead of working to come out with vehicles that were more fuel-efficient, they costantly came out with bigger and more powerful vehicles that burnt more and more fuel. Now, oil prices are up, big vehicles arent selling and the Detroit 3 are running around like a bunch of chickens with their heads cut off, screaming, "the sky is falling, the sky is falling!!" Well, Im sorry, but Detroit created their own problems by focusing so much on big vehicles.

You're somewhat right, but the biggest factors on why American car companies are sinking are:

Unions: Unions are destroying the big 3. They're extorting the manufacturers and bleeding them dry. They have ridiculously lavish pension plans for their employees.

Unprotected American auto industry: Japan has quotas and huge tariff on vehicles that enter their port. They limit how many cars a foreign manufacturer can bring in even if it's highly successful. They also slap foreign vehicles with big taxes. Here in the U.S., the "import" cars are often cheaper than in countries where they are made. They simply aren't slapped with a tariff.


You don't realize that in economic terms, these are the exact same issue, yet you are against it in one instance and for it in another.

Unions effectively place a tariff on low cost labor. Forcing the labor consumer (the auto companies) to overpay for it. In the short run it works well for the Unions (tariff makers) but in the long run, the inefficiency of artificial intrusion in the labor market ends up hurting the Union most.

You understand it when it comes to Unions because you are seeing the end result now. You don't understand Tariffs on vehicles because you luckily are not seeing the end result. The end result would be a complete collapse of the US auto industry when the Tariffs end (and they would end, because eventually the US public would demand it).

You may think the industry is collapsing now, but it would be nothing compared to the fall of a protectionist auto industry.

Fan

It would be very tragic if Ford and GM were to go under. Just think of all the people it would put out of work. Not just the people who work directly for Ford and GM, but all the smaller companies like Lear who supply parts to Ford and GM.
I want to see Ford and GM do well, I just dont want them to do quite as well as Toyota. :D
I very much resent the mentality that just because we are living in the United States that we are obligated to buy from American automakers. The Detroit 3 have been doing business with the Japanese for years. Why cant we? The Detroit 3 have proven time and time again that they will sell-out the American working class and move their factories overseas if it means making a profit. If they arent going to be loyal to us, why should we be loyal to them?
I also dont feel sorry for the Detroit 3 and the problems they are having. The have known for decades that eventually oil prices would go up and that the days of big trucks and SUVs would be over. Instead of working to come out with vehicles that were more fuel-efficient, they costantly came out with bigger and more powerful vehicles that burnt more and more fuel. Now, oil prices are up, big vehicles arent selling and the Detroit 3 are running around like a bunch of chickens with their heads cut off, screaming, "the sky is falling, the sky is falling!!" Well, Im sorry, but Detroit created their own problems by focusing so much on big vehicles.

Whatever happened to Chrysler? Has it already been written off by everyone? Is the consensus that they are already too far gone, and so cannot be recovered?

I have to agree with your points, Bakemono. It is time that the domestic auto manufacturers get out of denial, stop blaming others for their problems (including the "sky is falling" mentality) and get about to doing something to turn their businesses around.

On that note, and as in Bakemono's other post in another thread, I think that Ford is starting on the path to recovery. Let's hope that it is not too little, too late.

I have yet to be convinced that GM knows what it is doing.

Chrysler? I have no idea where Cerberus wants to take Chrysler.

I have a feeling hyundai will become a VERY big name soon also... they are making some amazing cars lately especially in comparison to their past vehicles

Ill agree with you there those little Hyudais seem to just keep getting better and better.

i wouldnt be surprised if they actually startedgetting bigger to the point where they are super major rivals with toyota and honda
auto market changing to rapidly in such short time

Don't know the numbers, but it's more than likely "Toyota" (take away scion and lexus) outsold "Chevrolet."

Don't forget kia. Super cheap and 10 year warranty will begin to draw more and more people...

Whatever happened to Chrysler? Has it already been written off by everyone? Is the consensus that they are already too far gone, and so cannot be recovered?
Chrysler needs to figure out how to make their cars get decent gas milage. I still kind of have to laugh that gas prices are at an all-time high just as Chrysler comes out with a car like the Charger SRT8. :ugh3:
Chrysler's answer to fuel economy is to offer people $2.99 a gallon gas for 2 years. IMO, they would have been smarter to invest that money towards designing vehicles that get better fuel economy.

I have to agree with your points, Bakemono. It is time that the domestic auto manufacturers get out of denial, stop blaming others for their problems (including the "sky is falling" mentality) and get about to doing something to turn their businesses around.

On that note, and as in Bakemono's other post in another thread, I think that Ford is starting on the path to recovery. Let's hope that it is not too little, too late.

I have yet to be convinced that GM knows what it is doing.
They are getting better. Ford is upping production of the Focus, Edge and Escape; not to mention that they are coming out with a Fusion/Milan hybrid in the near future. GM recently announced they would be revamping their small car lineup, so its not as if Detroit is just sitting there waiting for the government to bail them out of for oil prices to drop. I think its more a question of is it too little, too late.

Chrysler? I have no idea where Cerberus wants to take Chrysler.All of the industry experts seem to think its only a matter of time before Cerberus divides up Chrysler and sells the individual brands off to the highest bidder.

Chrysler needs to figure out how to make their cars get decent gas milage. I still kind of have to laugh that gas prices are at an all-time high just as Chrysler comes out with a car like the Charger SRT8. :ugh3:
Chrysler's answer to fuel economy is to offer people $2.99 a gallon gas for 2 years. IMO, they would have been smarter to invest that money towards designing vehicles that get better fuel economy.




Kinda like how toyota revamped the Tundra and Sequoia to get a whopping 13 mpg? :ugh3:

The folks at Chrysler saw the increase in fuel prices just as well as Toyota did... as in, they didn't.

The SRT models were always meant to be low production numbers and had probably been in development for several years.

The 2.99 gas thing for 3 years is their way of enticing buyers to purchase their vehicles so they can stay afloat to get better/more efficient cars out.

*As a classic car hobbyist the fuel prices are depressing as hell. I've put maybe 50 miles on my 67 in the past couple months. Last year I put 6,000 miles on it.

All of the industry experts seem to think its only a matter of time before Cerberus divides up Chrysler and sells the individual brands off to the highest bidder.

Why on earth would any one want chrysler? They have the worst relabilty of the domestics and have nothing to offer but SUVs trucks and large sedans. GM and Ford have big gas guzzlers but they do offer fuel efficient options like Focus and Aveo and and Hybrids. Chrysler is a mess and anyone who buys them must be a smoking buddy of Amy Whinehouse.

Why on earth would any one want chrysler? They have the worst relabilty of the domestics and have nothing to offer but SUVs trucks and large sedans. GM and Ford have big gas guzzlers but they do offer fuel efficient options like Focus and Aveo and and Hybrids. Chrysler is a mess and anyone who buys them must be a smoking buddy of Amy Whinehouse.

Why sell Mercury? Why on earth would anyone want Mercury? Yet that is what Jerry York, an advisor to Ford shareholder and billionaire Kirk Kerkorian, has been telling Ford to do.

Mercury, like Chrysler (and Dodge and Jeep), has some history as an automotive badge in North America. Unlike Mercury, though, Chrysler actually has distinctive models and assembly plants, in other words, it has "brick and mortar" assets. Mercury has no distinctive models (all are badge-engineered Fords) and no assembly plants of its own. Selling Mercury would be a dumb idea, but selling Chrysler not so.

If and when Cerberus sells Chrysler, it could sell all of Chrysler, or sell off Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep separately, depending on which option makes it more money. Whoever buys Chrysler would have the name and the badge (and whatever nostalgia they may provide), plus their existing models (good or bad may not matter, because having something to work with is better than having nothing), plus their existing assembly plants.

With all these assets left standing, there may be an existing automaker somewhere that could take the opportunity to expand into North America. To that company (who knows, Tata from India or Fiat or Volkswagen, all of which want to expand North American operations and sales), having all of this to work with would be easier than having to shop around for some big empty field somewhere to set up a fresh assembly plant, and then having to find new engineers and new, skilled labourers (remember that Toyota is having these problems finding human resources for its new Highlander plant in Mississippi). Volkswagen has as a goal to be larger than Toyota in 10 years time, and one way to reach that goal is to drastically increase North American sales. If it bought Chrysler at fire sale prices, that would be one step closer towards its goal of world domination.

There are quite a few Companies that would love to get their hands on "Jeep."

Dodge... someone would pick them up.

Chrysler... ummm... not so much?

Edit: post was late.

Why sell Mercury? Why on earth would anyone want Mercury? Yet that is what Jerry York, an advisor to Ford shareholder and billionaire Kirk Kerkorian, has been telling Ford to do.

Mercury, like Chrysler (and Dodge and Jeep), has some history as an automotive badge in North America. Unlike Mercury, though, Chrysler actually has distinctive models and assembly plants, in other words, it has "brick and mortar" assets. Mercury has no distinctive models (all are badge-engineered Fords) and no assembly plants of its own. Selling Mercury would be a dumb idea, but selling Chrysler not so.

If and when Cerberus sells Chrysler, it could sell all of Chrysler, or sell off Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep separately, depending on which option makes it more money. Whoever buys Chrysler would have the name and the badge (and whatever nostalgia they may provide), plus their existing models (good or bad may not matter, because having something to work with is better than having nothing), plus their existing assembly plants.

With all these assets left standing, there may be an existing automaker somewhere that could take the opportunity to expand into North America. To that company (who knows, Tata from India or Fiat or Volkswagen, all of which want to expand North American operations and sales), having all of this to work with would be easier than having to shop around for some big empty field somewhere to set up a fresh assembly plant, and then having to find new engineers and new, skilled labourers (remember that Toyota is having these problems finding human resources for its new Highlander plant in Mississippi). Volkswagen has as a goal to be larger than Toyota in 10 years time, and one way to reach that goal is to drastically increase North American sales. If it bought Chrysler at fire sale prices, that would be one step closer towards its goal of world domination.

That makes sense in theory but isn't that what Mercedes inteded to do with Chrysler? But I guess if some one with a clear vision bought them they may be able to turn them around.

Kinda like how toyota revamped the Tundra and Sequoia to get a whopping 13 mpg? :ugh3:

Heres the difference: the Tundra/Sequoia are built to be utilitarian vehicles that are meant to do heavy-duty towing, haul a family around and for driving off-road.
You couldnt sell a Rav4 to someone with a big boat or a 20' camper and expect that vehicle to fit their needs.
The Charger is all about ego. "Look at me, look at me! Look how much I can squeal my tires."
Trucks and SUVs, for the right person, have a purpose. Musclecars/sportscars are all about ego and excess.
You are comparing apples to oranges. :disappoin

Heres the difference: the Tundra/Sequoia are built to be utilitarian vehicles that are meant to do heavy-duty towing, haul a family around and for driving off-road.
You couldnt sell a Rav4 to someone with a big boat or a 20' camper and expect that vehicle to fit their needs.
The Charger is all about ego. "Look at me, look at me! Look how much I can squeal my tires."
Trucks and SUVs, for the right person, have a purpose. Musclecars/sportscars are all about ego and excess.
You are comparing apples to oranges. :disappoin

:rolleyes: What about everyone who bought trucks and suv's because they didn't need them. Wouldn't that have been an ego and excess purchase? Current sales prove my point :D Most people don't need them, so now they're ditching them and buying something they "need" which is a family car or a small econobox.

There will ALWAYS be a "need" for mid-life crisis and "ego" cars. If you can afford it, why not? :smokin:

Last I checked, you only live once. ;)

I want to point out an observation of not needed but is BIG ASS EGO TRIP. private contractors you know the guys with the huge chevys/fords and dodges all 4x4 ,some dullies,always spotless,never in the dirt,20,000 in suspension & turbo's only to cruise to customers houses to give out estimates.I have to shake my head and laugh at em.they get pissed everytime i get around em in my Xrunner,they have to try and bumm rush me ,tail gate,or the best the flyby & cutoff looking to impress me. I firmly believe their big truck is to make up for something that is very small.their ego's are HUGE, apparent & so fake.

:rolleyes: What about everyone who bought trucks and suv's because they didn't need them. Wouldn't that have been an ego and excess purchase? Current sales prove my point :D Most people don't need them, so now they're ditching them and buying something they "need" which is a family car or a small econobox.

There will ALWAYS be a "need" for mid-life crisis and "ego" cars. If you can afford it, why not? :smokin:

Last I checked, you only live once. ;)
Perhaps, but at least trucks and SUVs have a practical purpose. You cant say the same about sportscars.
There has never been a, "need" for cars like that, its all about ego. Im all for buying a car like that if thats what you want and you can afford it, but to say that there will always been a need for cars like that is just plain false.
As far as only living once goes, thats open to debate. Im sure theres a lot of Buddhists in this world who would disagree with you on that one.

Until you've driven one, you'll never understand. It's not always about ego, but being able to truely enjoy driving and owning a car. It's a hobby for most.

The most fun I've ever had driving a vehicle was driving my roommates 2000 WS6 T/A in college. Black on black, torque thrust rims, Borla duels, 6 spd manual. Not only was she gorgeous, but fast as hell.

I guess everyone on here who wants a Toyota sports car (or owns a supra) is just an egotistical prick? Maybe, just maybe, they're car enthusiests who enjoy driving and are sick of boring ass corollas and camrys?

Don't be jealous others have sweeter rides than you, it will make you bitter :clap:

for some sports cars arent about egos

there are some of us who enjoy the beauty and grace of a sports car in motion
while you may not understand it or wish to understand it
it is an art form , for several of us
being able to squeeze that extra horsie out
or getting a perfect torque curve
to the point where you clean polish your engine to the point where it blinds all those who open your hood

there is something about bonding with a car and apreciating its beauty to the fullest.

beauty and art is in the art of the beholder and to several of us here
sports are are a beautifull art
thats why so many of us wish for toyota to return our beauties to us
the celica, supra, mr-2
if youve never ridden in one , or enjoyed one you might not understand
but the sheer sound of a turbo spooling and the release valve just going pishhhhhhhhhhchhhhh
is so relaxing ^.^

:lol: Whatever you gotta tell yourself. Ive driven several '60s Ford Mustangs (my parents own 3 of them infact, a '68 coupe, a '67 Fastback GTA with a 390 in it and a '67 convertible), a '68 GTO Judge and an '82 Corvette. Trust me, I understand.
Oh and about being, "bitter" because other people have sweeter rides than me, I learned a long time ago the old Buddhist lesson that material possesions dont bring about lasting happiness, so I couldnt care less how, "sweet" someone else's ride is.
No amount of stuff is going to bring lasting happiness, because regardless of what you have, there is someone out there whose car is newer, faster and better. As long as my vehicle take me where I need to go and gets me back home with a minimal amount of drama, Im happy.
Bottom line, when gas is $4 a gallon and (in the case of Chrysler) your lineup is known for poor fuel economy, a gas-guzzing V8 ego-car is the last thing you need to be coming out with. Its yet another case of people spending money they dont have, on things they dont need, to impress people they dont know.
I'll take a slow, boring, fuel-sipping Corolla or Camry over any musclecar. To each their own though. How boring the world would be if we all liked the same things.

blacken & bakemono ,I fully agree with both you. in my almost 58yrs on this planet have had my share of muscle cars and collector pieces. but in a economy when fuel was at 2.00 a gallon what were the knuckleheads thinking buying a fuel guzzling big ass truck for. thats what I mentioned. I would much rather have the v6 supercharged (which I have now) in my Xrunner knowing full well that fuel wouldn't come down.I love the whine of my s/c when i exercise it from time to time. I would love nothing better to get my hands on a restored supra as a weekend cruiser only. I don't need to be seen in the largest gas guzzling truck to make me feel like someone or to impress someone that frankly doesn't give a rats ass about me. give me my mileage getter all 6 speeds and my s/c & I'm a happy man! the sports exotics are a art form with the gently curved lines and the roar of raw h.p. but alas my wallet right now says no way. but i can dream!:thumbsup:

Dont get me wrong, Id love to have a Supra, Celica, MR2 or Lexus IS in my driveway. I also dont deny that sportscars are important to an automaker.
Look at Dodge's lineup though. Other than the Caliber, everything they make is a gas guzzler. At a time when gas is at $4 a gallon and expected to continue rising, they would be wise to focus less on horsepower and more on improving their fuel economy.

Dont get me wrong, Id love to have a Supra, Celica, MR2 or Lexus IS in my driveway. I also dont deny that sportscars are important to an automaker.
Look at Dodge's lineup though. Other than the Caliber, everything they make is a gas guzzler. At a time when gas is at $4 a gallon and expected to continue rising, they would be wise to focus less on horsepower and more on improving their fuel economy.

thats why several people want toyota to bring back OUR sports cars

my celica can get 35mpg
over at newcelica.org we got people nearing 40 mpg in their GT-Ss

even the supra got exelent gas milage for a sports car
300+ horsepower car that can get 28+ mpg heck yeah bring it on

Toyota can potentially dominate every auto market out there
economy = #1, Sports = Potential for #1, Luxury = Lexus isnt the world best selling luxury brand for nothing.

So yes Toyota Definately can be #1 in World and USA
its all a matter of how fast and how much they want to get their feet wet.

even the supra got exelent gas milage for a sports car
300+ horsepower car that can get 28+ mpg heck yeah bring it on



400+ HP V8 Corvettes can get 30+ MPG's on the HWY, so 28 MPG from a Supra aint any big deal.

400+ HP V8 Corvettes can get 30+ MPG's on the HWY, so 28 MPG from a Supra aint any big deal.


fueleconomy.gov


2009 corvette = 26mpg hwy v8 6.2l
1996 supra = 22mpg hwy v6 3.0l

fueleconomy.gov


2009 corvette = 26mpg hwy v8 6.2l
1996 supra = 22mpg hwy v6 3.0l


:eek:That may be true but look at the difference in initial buying cost of those two cars when they were/are brand new and then look at the difference in resale value after owning one five years. Looking at MPG and HP alone is a terrible way to compare those two cars.

The answer: no, not yet anyway.


General Motors holds off Toyota in June US sales

By TOM KRISHER and DEE-ANN DURBIN, AP Auto Writers
34 minutes ago


General Motors Corp. outsells Toyota Motor Corp. in June to retain its traditional U.S. sales lead, even though GM says its sales dropped 18.2 percent for the month.
Toyota sales had fallen 21.4 percent for the month. Both companies were hurt by a sluggish economy and poor sales of trucks and sport utility vehicles.
GM on Tuesday reported selling 262,329 vehicles for the month, compared with Toyota's 193,234.
For the first half of the year, GM sales were down 16.3 percent compared with the year-ago period. Toyota sales were down 6.8 percent for the first six months of the year.
(This version CORRECTS GM's percentage decline to 18.2 percent, sted 18 percent; corrects GM sales to 262,329, sted 265,937, which included heavy trucks. AP reports light vehicle sales only).)


I don't see that there was ever a threat anyway, even before the drops, GM had a sales lead of about 30%, the difference in their performance would have to have been astronomical for Toyota to overtake GM.

fueleconomy.gov


2009 corvette = 26mpg hwy v8 6.2l
1996 supra = 22mpg hwy v6 3.0l

That comparison doesn't really work because the Corvette is 13 years newer...

excellent point. chevy is on the vurge of taking a header really fast.their truck sales,they can't give em away. garber chevy by my house had a used 2006 vette listed for 26k. check a 96 supra resale asking price 35-50k.:lol:

excellent point. chevy is on the vurge of taking a header really fast.their truck sales,they can't give em away. garber chevy by my house had a used 2006 vette listed for 26k. check a 96 supra resale asking price 35-50k.:lol:

Well the prices also are different. You can get new vettes anytime you want. The Supra has been discontinued for more than 10 years and not that many were made to start with, over the years people wreck them and there are less and less on the road which drives the price higher and higher. Supply and demand at its best.