2010 Toyota Camry possible changes

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f1910a4/19!make=Toyota&model=Camry&ed_makeindex=.f1910a4

I don't know if these are true but they sound like it since the Camry's 4 cylinder is in desperate need of a boost.

look for the poster seatoyotasales and he has the list of changes.

Pretty much expected already, and we know about the 2.5 coming.

Pretty much expected already, and we know about the 2.5 coming.

lol well i guess i'm behind the times. but i thought everyone was speculating it was the 2.7 4 cylinder from the venza?

I wish they would put the 2.5 in the 2010 Corolla XRS!!

that makes sense, since the venza is a bigger car, it needs a bigger 4cyl engine. when will they put this motor in the corolla xrs?

a 180 hp 4 cylinder 2.5 was well in the works for a while now
everyone knew the old 4 cylinder was way outdated
the new engine should be packing more power with same fuel economy due to tech tweaks if im not mistaken =D~ leh drool

The Camry is due for a mid-cycle refreshment in 2010, 3 years after its introduction as a 2007 model. This is in line with Toyota's policy of a mid-cycle refreshment (to keep the model fresh and maintain the number of buyers for what is by then an aging model) for the 4th year of a model; the full model change (new model) will come after the model has been on the market for 5 years (so the new model follows 2 years after the mid-cycle refreshment). From what I have read on TN is that for this Gen6 Camry, the 2008 model year was short, the 2009 model year was then introduced early in 2008, allowing for a full year on the market before the 2010 MY Camry is introduced in early 2009, a full 3 years after the current Gen6 Camry was introduced in early 2006 as a 2007 model.

This is only a mid-cycle refreshment, so do not expect much, other than a face-lift at the front (new grill, perhaps new headlights and bumper) and the back (new taillights). (Just think back to the mid-cycle refreshments of all previous Camrys.) There may be a slight change to the design of the instrument panel, but don't expect major changes. The major change is likely to be the new 2.5-litre 4-cylinder engine, already announced for the 2009 RAV4, and probably a sister engine to the 2.7-litre 4-cyl engine announced for the Venza, and, if we are lucky, also the 6-speed automatic transmission announced for the Venza (I am hoping!). Don't expect structural changes, which means there will be no changes to the size of the car, no changes to the metal skin (doors, roof, etc.), and probably no major changes to the instrument panel.

lol well i guess i'm behind the times. but i thought everyone was speculating it was the 2.7 4 cylinder from the venza?

New of the 2.5 came up recently, and it got around pretty quick that its gonna end up in the Camry. Its coming on the Rav4 first this september. If you want to try it, get a test drive of the Rav4 from dealerships in a few months.

And the 2.5 will most likely replace the XRS engine next summer, according to my dealership. They have the info site for dealers that we can't see.

:yikes:DAMN IT I will be so mad if I just bought the 158hp 2.4 XRS only to have a 180hp 2.5 come out next summer!!!!! WHY cruel world? WHY?



:wtf:

^Ha, that would suck, good luck with that one man...:disappoin

I rock 116hp and some over sized tires, I'm not going anywhere in a hurry, lol. :p

I rock 116hp and some over sized tires, I'm not going anywhere in a hurry, lol. :p

No where other than up a cliff and over the mountains ;)

The 6-spd auto with the 2.5 litre is new to me.... haven't heard of any development of a 6-spd for 4 cylinder engines.

:yikes:DAMN IT I will be so mad if I just bought the 158hp 2.4 XRS only to have a 180hp 2.5 come out next summer!!!!! WHY cruel world? WHY?



:wtf:

I don't think they'll do that. Car manufacturers know better than to redesign a specific model within a year. Tune maybe, overhaul, probably not.

Then again, it actually doesn't matter since another year or two and you'll be doing a trade in anyway. For the Toyobaru coupe. RWD FTW! :D

any links to the "Toyobaru" coupe? I'm not a huge coupe fan my self but RWD FTW agreed

The 6-spd auto with the 2.5 litre is new to me.... haven't heard of any development of a 6-spd for 4 cylinder engines.

I was just speculating, based on the announcement that both the 6-cylinder and the 4-cylinder engines on the Venza would come with a 6-speed automatic transmission.

I was just speculating, based on the announcement that both the 6-cylinder and the 4-cylinder engines on the Venza would come with a 6-speed automatic transmission.

ohhh I see. Hmm... Well it would give them a lead on the others.

I don't think they'll do that. Car manufacturers know better than to redesign a specific model within a year. Tune maybe, overhaul, probably not.

Then again, it actually doesn't matter since another year or two and you'll be doing a trade in anyway. For the Toyobaru coupe. RWD FTW! :D

ha!! you'd think so wouldn't you?

2002 Camry - 3.0 litre V6 194hp
2003 Camry SE - 3.0 litre VVT-i 210hp
2004 Camry SE - 3.3 litre VVT-i 225hp

(all old SAE).

2001 Civic-2003 Civic had the front suspension changed 3 times.

ohhh I see. Hmm... Well it would give them a lead on the others.



ha!! you'd think so wouldn't you?

2002 Camry - 3.0 litre V6 194hp
2003 Camry SE - 3.0 litre VVT-i 210hp
2004 Camry SE - 3.3 litre VVT-i 225hp

(all old SAE).

2001 Civic-2003 Civic had the front suspension changed 3 times.

There are unlikely to be any structural changes during a mid-cycle refreshment, unless it was needed to correct a major crash-test deficiency, I think, but the crash testing on the Gen6 Camry has been done and any changes would have been made earlier.

Engine changes are the most likely "structural" changes, but as long as the new engine fits (and engine mounts are compatible, as far as I know), an engine change could occur at any time during a model's life cycle. (Toyota switched from the 3.3-litre 3MZ V6 to the 3.5-litre 2GR V6 in the 2007 Sienna, even though the mid-cycle refreshment was done for 2006.) The engines listed above are all engines in the same engine family (MZ), and the information I found on Wikipedia suggests that the 3.0-litre engine was bored out to make the 3.3-litre engine, so the outside dimensions of the 2 engine blocks were probably the same, so the engine change was likely relatively easy.

As for the suspension design changes, as far as I know, if Honda kept the same mounting points on the car body for the suspension, the suspension swap is, again, relatively easy.

The engine and suspension changes could be classified as component changes, changing components that are separate from the structure of the car.

Would Toyota go so far as to redesign the instrument panel? I don't know. Hyundai did put a new IP in the mid-cycle refreshed Sonata, but I have no idea how different it actually is behind the visible changes that the driver and passengers see. Did they have to change the ductwork for the HVAC system, for instance? Did they have to make any changes to the attachment points, for instance? These two changes would likely have involved structural changes, I think, and therefore unlikely (due to cost and cascading changes that may be involved) for just a mid-cycle change.

Notice that USA is a few years behind
the 10th gen corolla has been out since 2006
we only just got it this year cuz we be slow or something.

So a mid cycle refresh of the corolla is not out of the ordinary.
since the rest of the world has had it for a while we just got it now =P

so XRS could go from 158 to 190 hp =P

Notice that USA is a few years behind
the 10th gen corolla has been out since 2006
we only just got it this year cuz we be slow or something.

So a mid cycle refresh of the corolla is not out of the ordinary.
since the rest of the world has had it for a while we just got it now =P

so XRS could go from 158 to 190 hp =P



Which would make me so mad. Imagine how much i would lose on my trade in?:disappoin

There are unlikely to be any structural changes during a mid-cycle refreshment, unless it was needed to correct a major crash-test deficiency, I think, but the crash testing on the Gen6 Camry has been done and any changes would have been made earlier.

Engine changes are the most likely "structural" changes, but as long as the new engine fits (and engine mounts are compatible, as far as I know), an engine change could occur at any time during a model's life cycle. (Toyota switched from the 3.3-litre 3MZ V6 to the 3.5-litre 2GR V6 in the 2007 Sienna, even though the mid-cycle refreshment was done for 2006.) The engines listed above are all engines in the same engine family (MZ), and the information I found on Wikipedia suggests that the 3.0-litre engine was bored out to make the 3.3-litre engine, so the outside dimensions of the 2 engine blocks were probably the same, so the engine change was likely relatively easy.

As for the suspension design changes, as far as I know, if Honda kept the same mounting points on the car body for the suspension, the suspension swap is, again, relatively easy.

The engine and suspension changes could be classified as component changes, changing components that are separate from the structure of the car.

Would Toyota go so far as to redesign the instrument panel? I don't know. Hyundai did put a new IP in the mid-cycle refreshed Sonata, but I have no idea how different it actually is behind the visible changes that the driver and passengers see. Did they have to change the ductwork for the HVAC system, for instance? Did they have to make any changes to the attachment points, for instance? These two changes would likely have involved structural changes, I think, and therefore unlikely (due to cost and cascading changes that may be involved) for just a mid-cycle change.

I supposed. I'm surprised the suspension changed so often. Went from double wishbones to MacPherson Struts and I forget what was the 3rd one they tried. Also, the wheel covers changed for each of the 3 years. Who was in charged of the Civic and what was wrong with him/her?

Yeah but regarding the engine swap every year, wouldn't that tank resale values since we know hp sells so people would want the more powerful one. (Like what Gatorade's worried about with his XRS).

Hmm.. well we know the current dashboard can look fantastic. Just look at the Chinese/Taiwanese Camry or even the Australian Camry. It's the same (ok very similar, cause they don't have that clock like we do) dashboard and it looks fantastic.

I'm hoping they roll out the Valvematic 2.0(158 hp)soon.It would work in the Camry,Corolla,XB and XD and improve mileage considerably.Also Toyota needs to offer an eco version(LRR tires,aero tweaks etc.) of their cars to compete with the econetic Fords and the Chevy XFE models.

Would Toyota go so far as to redesign the instrument panel? I don't know. Hyundai did put a new IP in the mid-cycle refreshed Sonata, but I have no idea how different it actually is behind the visible changes that the driver and passengers see. Did they have to change the ductwork for the HVAC system, for instance? Did they have to make any changes to the attachment points, for instance? These two changes would likely have involved structural changes, I think, and therefore unlikely (due to cost and cascading changes that may be involved) for just a mid-cycle change.


Regarding stuff like that. The current Hyundai Sonata was praised but the instrument and interior were so-so. SO they upgraded it for the refresh model. I think if a certain design makes a big stink and its a good selling model the company will change it for the mid-cycle and in some exceptions earlier if need be.

It depends on a lot of factors as far as how extensive the mid-cycle will net. Obviously cost is number one, competition, and market. if its a bigger selling car then changes are likely to be minimal, if its slow selling (to a point) then changes are more intense. Or if it was a splash in the beginning but slowed down changes will be more than usual i.e. the ECHO sedan in the U.S.

I know for the slow selling ECHO sedan, the 03 (the one I have) got major front and rear changes. They made it more "conventional" looking cause it got complaints of looking too cartoonish and it still does with overall shape but it helped reduce that. As well as some other changes such as reworked intake I believe or was it manifold. One of those:lol::lol: Also upgraded ECU from a 16 bit to a 32 bit I believe. New steering wheel. Optional tach on sedan version. etc you get the point. :thumbup:

My thoughts about this:

Would Toyota go so far as to redesign the instrument panel? I don't know. Hyundai did put a new IP in the mid-cycle refreshed Sonata....

Sonata's center stack, especially, was just awful dog-butt ugly -- man, it needed to be fixed, and I applaud Hyundai for jumping in and doing something about it.

As for changes to headlights, taillights, and grille, I can only imagine "the worst." The current headlights are a very clean implementation of relatively same-sized high beams, lows, and turn signals, in a nice row. Any changes there could really only uglify things with a far less clean approach. The same pretty much goes for the taillights -- sure, plug LED's into essentially the same taillight shape, and I'd go for that, but once again, the taillights are pretty clean and simple -- the kind of "classic" styling that doesn't look gimmicky and therefore "awful" over time. I know the grille hasn't gotten much love, but I think Venza shows how much, much more awful they could make it look. Frankly, if they'd just attach the big logo and its surrounding area to the hood, as opposed to how they've chopped it off in the current implementation, that might be all they'd need to do to make the thing look quite a bit better than it does now.

So, the thought of front and rear-end changes scares me. It's easy to imagine:

Would you prefer a Camry with the new Venza nose, or its current nose?

All I can say is that I sure prefer the current Camry over the Venza!

I'm hoping they roll out the Valvematic 2.0(158 hp)soon.It would work in the Camry,Corolla,XB and XD and improve mileage considerably.Also Toyota needs to offer an eco version(LRR tires,aero tweaks etc.) of their cars to compete with the econetic Fords and the Chevy XFE models.

I don't think the 2.0-litre 3ZR-FAE (with Valvematic) engine would work in the Camry. The horsepower rating of the 3ZR-FAE is the same as the Camry's 2AZ-FE, but the torque of the 3ZR-FAE is much lower than the 2AZ-FE, and being a heavier car, the extra torque is what you need to accelerate away smartly from a stop. For those who complain about a lack of acceleration power in the Camry 4-cylinder, the 3ZR-FAE would be even worse. The 3ZR-FAE would work nicely in the Corolla, though.

I thought the Ford ECOnetic was a low-emission diesel? Yes, in that case, Toyota should make available passenger car diesel models, but it looks like Toyota's strategy to fuel efficiency is the hybrid, not the diesel (which would likely not sell that well in North America). And the hybrid vehicles are more efficient than equivalent diesel cars.

I thought the Chevy XFE models were made available to compete with Toyota, not the other way around? From the vehicle fuel economy ratings that I have seen, I believe that Toyota's engines are among the most fuel efficient. The Camry has the aero tweaks (little deflectors in front of the tires, for instance), and I am sure that the Corolla has them too. Toyota just does not advertise them loudly like some other manufacturers do. You could say that all of Toyota's models are eco-versions, not a particular trim level.

My thoughts about this:



Sonata's center stack, especially, was just awful dog-butt ugly -- man, it needed to be fixed, and I applaud Hyundai for jumping in and doing something about it.

As for changes to headlights, taillights, and grille, I can only imagine "the worst." The current headlights are a very clean implementation of relatively same-sized high beams, lows, and turn signals, in a nice row. Any changes there could really only uglify things with a far less clean approach. The same pretty much goes for the taillights -- sure, plug LED's into essentially the same taillight shape, and I'd go for that, but once again, the taillights are pretty clean and simple -- the kind of "classic" styling that doesn't look gimmicky and therefore "awful" over time. I know the grille hasn't gotten much love, but I think Venza shows how much, much more awful they could make it look. Frankly, if they'd just attach the big logo and its surrounding area to the hood, as opposed to how they've chopped it off in the current implementation, that might be all they'd need to do to make the thing look quite a bit better than it does now.

So, the thought of front and rear-end changes scares me. It's easy to imagine:

Would you prefer a Camry with the new Venza nose, or its current nose?

All I can say is that I sure prefer the current Camry over the Venza!

Agreed, but look at the 2005 (Gen5.5) Camry compared to the 2002 (Gen5) Camry: the bumper was changed; the grill was changed and the sombrero logo moved from the top of the grill to the middle; and although the overall outer shape of the headlight assembly was the same (I am assuming that neither the size nor shape changed, since they look the same), the position of the individual amber flashers, low beam and high beam lamps in the headlight was changed. The same thing happened at the back: although the overall outer shape of the taillight assembly was the same, the positions of the amber flashers and reverse lights was changed. The changes were not drastic, very simple in fact in that only the "plastic" parts (lights, bumper) were changed, but the metal parts were not, but they were just enough to make it look freshened. In fact, the change of location of the flashers in the taillight assembly (top to bottom or vice-versa) is a very common freshening technique.

I would bet that we see something similar for the Gen6.5 Camry.

And the 2.5 will most likely replace the XRS engine next summer, according to my dealership. They have the info site for dealers that we can't see.

:bullshitz

Info like that on future year model changes doesn't just get posted to an internal site for dealer access. This would be privledged info available to very few corp. people.

And I highly doubt they would put the 2.5 in there before Gen11. XRS is selling like hot cakes so there's no incentive.

Plus they still use the 2.4 in the tC, and they still sell plenty of them too

Plus they still use the 2.4 in the tC, and they still sell plenty of them too

That is so, but the tC is assembled in Japan, and the models with the 2.4-litre engine that we are discussing are assembled here, as is the engine. The Camry and Corolla and the 2.4-litre 4-cylinder engine they use in North America are assembled in North America. If the high-selling 4-cylinder Camry's engine is being replaced with a new 2.5-litre engine, and the RAV4 to start being produced in North America also using the new 2.5-litre engine, the 2.5-litre engine is probably going to be produced in North America also. I don't think that Toyota North America would continue to produce the old 2.4-litre engine in small numbers just for the Corolla XRS, or import a few of the old 2.4-litre engines a year, just for the XRS; it would not be economical.

The only reason I could see Toyota North America continue to produce the old 2.4-litre is if the Camry Hybrid continues using this old engine; in that case, with the engine still being produced, the XRS could continue to use the old engine. Otherwise, I think the XRS will switch to the new 2.5-litre engine, especially if it is both more powerful AND more fuel efficient than the old 2.4-litre engine.

:bullshitz

Info like that on future year model changes doesn't just get posted to an internal site for dealer access. This would be privledged info available to very few corp. people.

And I highly doubt they would put the 2.5 in there before Gen11. XRS is selling like hot cakes so there's no incentive.

That is so, but the tC is assembled in Japan, and the models with the 2.4-litre engine that we are discussing are assembled here, as is the engine. The Camry and Corolla and the 2.4-litre 4-cylinder engine they use in North America are assembled in North America. If the high-selling 4-cylinder Camry's engine is being replaced with a new 2.5-litre engine, and the RAV4 to start being produced in North America also using the new 2.5-litre engine, the 2.5-litre engine is probably going to be produced in North America also. I don't think that Toyota North America would continue to produce the old 2.4-litre engine in small numbers just for the Corolla XRS, or import a few of the old 2.4-litre engines a year, just for the XRS; it would not be economical.

The only reason I could see Toyota North America continue to produce the old 2.4-litre is if the Camry Hybrid continues using this old engine; in that case, with the engine still being produced, the XRS could continue to use the old engine. Otherwise, I think the XRS will switch to the new 2.5-litre engine, especially if it is both more powerful AND more fuel efficient than the old 2.4-litre engine.

Sulu explains it quite well. And well the explanation with the tC does not hold because the 2.5 is not out yet, how do you know its not going to be swapped over to the 2.5. Also the tC is in for a redesign soon too.

Sulu explains it quite well. And well the explanation with the tC does not hold because the 2.5 is not out yet, how do you know its not going to be swapped over to the 2.5. Also the tC is in for a redesign soon too.

Thanks! And here I was, worried that I would come out garbled because I was half-asleep.

:yikes:DAMN IT I will be so mad if I just bought the 158hp 2.4 XRS only to have a 180hp 2.5 come out next summer!!!!! WHY cruel world? WHY?



:wtf:

To relief the pain, trade-in and thats it. Or drink lemon gatorade, that will relief me haha!

Sonata´s interior was quite awful, but now, oh mine, its very good. I believe that for the refresh of the camry, toyota will change whatever it needs according to where the market is heading, the competition and to make it more appealing. Yet, of course, its only a refresh.

To relief the pain, trade-in and thats it. .

Actually he feel more pain with the trade-in. Especially if its the year before and if he still has payments on it. He would lose more than its worth probably. THere are exceptions of course but you get the drift. Ideally you would want to trade when the car is paid off. Of course selling it to a private party would be good. :thumbup::)

180HP from the 2.5L, interesting. If this information is true, that means the engine comes without Valvematic. That would likely mean Valvematic would only be added when the next-gen Camry arrives, but we shall see. The surprising news is the addition of a 6 speed for the 4 cyl. Again, if this is true it's good news because it means the Rav4 will likely get transmission updates. Plus, the 6 speed along with the new 4 cyl will almost certainly achieve best-in-class fuel economy.

No where other than up a cliff and over the mountains ;)

Lol, thanks man. :thumbup: Hopefully that's where I'll be headed if it decides to rain this weekend. :D

180HP from the 2.5L, interesting. If this information is true, that means the engine comes without Valvematic. That would likely mean Valvematic would only be added when the next-gen Camry arrives, but we shall see. The surprising news is the addition of a 6 speed for the 4 cyl. Again, if this is true it's good news because it means the Rav4 will likely get transmission updates. Plus, the 6 speed along with the new 4 cyl will almost certainly achieve best-in-class fuel economy.

We do not know if there will be a 6 spd for the new engine, however its logical to think they would bring out a new transmission together with the new engine. The 2AZ only recently moved on to the 5sp auto, there is a chance it may be reused and carried over to the new engine.

And about the Rav4, it uses a 4WD/AWD transmission, it may be similar to the FWD transmission, but there are differences in between.

This is only a mid-cycle refreshment, so do not expect much, other than a face-lift at the front (new grill, perhaps new headlights and bumper) and the back (new taillights).
I hope some of the changes here include a factory HID option especially on the hybrid model. The Prius has had them for years now. Hybrids are all about efficiency. It doesn't make sense to put inefficient halogen headlights on any car nowadays, especially hybrids, where they'll just discharge the batteries faster (and it's not like there's a tradeoff between efficiency and function either, as IMO HID headlights are superior in both categories).

I hope some of the changes here include a factory HID option especially on the hybrid model. The Prius has had them for years now. Hybrids are all about efficiency. It doesn't make sense to put inefficient halogen headlights on any car nowadays, especially hybrids, where they'll just discharge the batteries faster (and it's not like there's a tradeoff between efficiency and function either, as IMO HID headlights are superior in both categories).
how 'bout just bypassing HIDs and going straight to LEDs?

how 'bout just bypassing HIDs and going straight to LEDs?
Sure, as long as someone solves the problem of keeping the light output constant across a wide range of temperatures. AFAIK the problem with LEDs is that they produce so little heat, their temperature during operation can vary widely depending on the ambient temperature.

Sure, as long as someone solves the problem of keeping the light output constant across a wide range of temperatures. AFAIK the problem with LEDs is that they produce so little heat, their temperature during operation can vary widely depending on the ambient temperature.
so how do the LS600 and the A8 do it?

so how do the LS600 and the A8 do it?
Interesting, it looks like the problem has been solved.

A better question is: why does Toyota continue to use halogen headlights in ANY of its cars? Now that HIDs are soon going to be yesterday's technology, halogen lights are TWO steps behind. There isn't a single advantage I can think of that halogens have over HIDs. They're more vulnerable to vibration, run hotter, waste energy, aren't as bright, their light output isn't as easily picked up by the human eye, etc., etc. And yet, Toyota continues to not offer anything but factory halogen lamps in most of its cars. Pathetic!

Interesting, it looks like the problem has been solved.

A better question is: why does Toyota continue to use halogen headlights in ANY of its cars? Now that HIDs are soon going to be yesterday's technology, halogen lights are TWO steps behind. There isn't a single advantage I can think of that halogens have over HIDs. They're more vulnerable to vibration, run hotter, waste energy, aren't as bright, their light output isn't as easily picked up by the human eye, etc., etc. And yet, Toyota continues to not offer anything but factory halogen lamps in most of its cars. Pathetic!

Why continue to use halogen headlights? Cost is the reason. HIDs are expensive and LED headlamps more so. Why do you think that the only two vehicles available with LED headlamps are the top-of-the-range Lexus and Audi vehicles? Not even Mercedes-Benz and BMW offer that yet.

Why put a high-cost item on a mass-market car (and all Toyota cars are mass-market cars) if there something less costly still available, and the high-cost item is not absolutely necessary. Why do most other mass-market vehicle manufacturers (Honda, Volkswagen, etc.) continue to use halogen headlamps?

Why do you think Honda and Toyota do so well? It is because they have become very smart at spending money on their vehicles where they think it is necessary, and cutting costs in other areas, all done to keep the cost of their vehicles very competitive and still profitable.

Why continue to use halogen headlights? Cost is the reason. HIDs are expensive and LED headlamps more so. Why do you think that the only two vehicles available with LED headlamps are the top-of-the-range Lexus and Audi vehicles? Not even Mercedes-Benz and BMW offer that yet.

Why put a high-cost item on a mass-market car (and all Toyota cars are mass-market cars) if there something less costly still available, and the high-cost item is not absolutely necessary. Why do most other mass-market vehicle manufacturers (Honda, Volkswagen, etc.) continue to use halogen headlamps?
Why put a high-cost item on a mass-market car, like...oh, i dunno, GPS nav systems, satellite radio, leather seats, heated seats, and...hybrid synergy drive? I didn't say they should make this stuff standard. What's pathetic is not even offering it as a factory option. Especially something as basic as headlights.


Why do you think Honda and Toyota do so well? It is because they have become very smart at spending money on their vehicles where they think it is necessary, and cutting costs in other areas, all done to keep the cost of their vehicles very competitive and still profitable.
By making it optional, they could keep the base model cost competitive, while still allowing those willing to pay extra for these options the ability to do so. The Prius has had HIDs for years. I will say that Toyota's lack of factory HIDs on the TCH has cost them at least one sale so far.

Halogen bulbs are cheap... to the tune of what.. $5 each? (not counting the aftermarket HP ones). HIDs are closer to $100 for the capsules. This means insurance costs will be lower for the vehicle because it'll be cheaper to repair and the cost of ownership is lower (if ppl read Edmunds TCO). The Corolla's satnav is a low-cost version and not the full fledge ones on other Toyotas and it's not integrated like the radio is. Leather has different cost depending on the workmanship and the quality of the leather. I've seen cheap leather on a $50k Honda yet a $50k Lexus has superior leather quality. Ditto heated seats... one stage or multi-stage? bum only or bum and lower back?

and why cant we get damn heated seats with cloth? some of us dont care for leather and would perfer cloth but still want the heated seats

and why cant we get damn heated seats with cloth? some of us dont care for leather and would perfer cloth but still want the heated seats
Very good point!! Yeah that would be nice too but then Toyota needs other things to put into its "leather package" haha (for Canada)

From another forum:

180 HP I4 with 6 speed trans.
Revised tail lights, headligfhts and grille
Smart key to be available on more models
Two new colors - a green and a tan/beige
New Wheel designs
XM radi std. on JBL sound systems
Active headrests

Production to begin in 02 or 03/2009

Or The Usual

HIDs should at least be an available option for the SE V6 and any XLE model. The Venza offers it in a package, so why can't the Camry? If Toyota offered more HID headlights in its cars, the at-cost price would drop because they'd be buying more from the manufacturers of the ballasts, ignitors, and light assemblies. But the price differential between halogen and Xenon lights is still quite large, and those extra dollars add up to quite a lot of money for mass-market vehicles.

However, 1/3 of all cars sold in the UK use HID, which is why it's usually an option, even on cheaper cars. Compare that to less than 1% here in the U.S. It has a lot to do with government safety standards for automobile lighting.

so nothing new or drastic then...

http://wot.motortrend.com/6350398/auto-shows/toyota-reveals-more-details-on-compressed-natural-gas-camry-hybrid-for-la-show/index.html

I know they're highlander wheels but I read on some forum (can't remember which one) I remember reading that the Camry SE will get 5 spoke wheels maybe there is a possiblity they will use the highlander wheels on the facelift. And they actually look good on this Camry except for the no grille. Oh yea I just noticed the front bumper is different.


http://image.motortrend.com/f/auto-shows/toyota-reveals-more-details-on-compressed-natural-gas-camry-hybrid-for-la-show/11305584+cr1+re0+ar1/toyota-cng-camry-hybrid.jpg

That's Actually Pretty Nice

From another forum:

180 HP I4 with 6 speed trans.
Revised tail lights, headligfhts and grille
Smart key to be available on more models
Two new colors - a green and a tan/beige
New Wheel designs
XM radi std. on JBL sound systems
Active headrests

Production to begin in 02 or 03/2009

I believe it all except the hp....are they really putting a more powerfull engine in the Camry than in the Rav4? Maybe a 170hp 4 cylinder. Although I hope I'm wrong and you're right!

I believe it all except the hp....are they really putting a more powerfull engine in the Camry than in the Rav4? Maybe a 170hp 4 cylinder. Although I hope I'm wrong and you're right!

The 2.7 would go nice in the Camry.

The 2.7 would go nice in the Camry.

It would go a long way in reducing the 100hp+ gap between the I4 and V6 models, but I'm thinking a more car-friendly 2.5L will debut in the Camry. The 2.4L debuted in 2002, and while it has received updates to lengthen its life, it's old news and just doesn't have the efficiency. Toyota needs to fast track the 2.5L AR in both the Camry and Camry Hybrid, if only to raise their CAFE rating (since 4 cylinders make up the bulk of Camry sales) and stay competitive.

I know they're highlander wheels but I read on some forum (can't remember which one) I remember reading that the Camry SE will get 5 spoke wheels maybe there is a possiblity they will use the highlander wheels on the facelift. And they actually look good on this Camry except for the no grille. Oh yea I just noticed the front bumper is different.

That CNG concept actually doesn't look half bad, if it had a grille, would be easily a facelift :P

That CNG concept actually doesn't look half bad, if it had a grille, would be easily a facelift :P

That's what i'm thinking that bumper will most likely be on the facelift.

I believe it all except the hp....are they really putting a more powerfull engine in the Camry than in the Rav4? Maybe a 170hp 4 cylinder. Although I hope I'm wrong and you're right!

Huh? The Rav4 has 179HP. I hardly think 1HP matters. Besides, the Rav4 2.5L might be tuned slightly differently for a bit more low-end torque. Let's wait for final numbers before we jump to conclusions.

That CNG concept actually doesn't look half bad, if it had a grille, would be easily a facelift :P

Has it occurred to you that some MPG enthusiasts will block up their grilles to get a few more miles out of their tank? They'll completely fall for this one which doesn't have a grille to begin with. :smokin:

(Search for "grille block")

Huh? The Rav4 has 179HP. I hardly think 1HP matters. Besides, the Rav4 2.5L might be tuned slightly differently for a bit more low-end torque. Let's wait for final numbers before we jump to conclusions.

You know, the RAV4 has always gotten a slightly more powerful version. Maybe it's the tuning or the way the intake and exhaust is routed in the SUV. Like the 2AZ, for example, was rated at 166hp, and not the Camry's 158hp. Knowing Toyota, the 2AR will probably output 175hp in the Camry. If not, we'll see 180hp.

Anything from 170hp-180hp will be class competitive. Mazda's new 2.5L puts out 172hp. I don't think we'll see Toyota competing with the Accord coupe's 190hp 2.4L, but the sedan's 177hp 2.4L will definitely be in their sights.

I'm going to go with 91MR2quickNA on the competition engines.

I don't think we'll see Toyota competing with the Accord coupe's 190hp 2.4L, but the sedan's 177hp 2.4L will definitely be in their sights.

Technically Toyota already does. With the combined hp of the gas and the battery you get a net worth of

The Toyota Camry Hybrid utilizes a four-cylinder gasoline engine with 108 kW (147 hp) and 187 Nm (138 ft·lbf) and 650V electric motors with a NiMH 245V traction battery with a maximum output of 29 kW (40 hp) to produce a peak of 140 kW (187 hp).[2]

So close to the Accord's numbers. Granted the Accord's is just the base 4-banger and not a hybrid but oh well!:thumbsup:

Technically Toyota already does. With the combined hp of the gas and the battery you get a net worth of

The Toyota Camry Hybrid utilizes a four-cylinder gasoline engine with 108 kW (147 hp) and 187 Nm (138 ft·lbf) and 650V electric motors with a NiMH 245V traction battery with a maximum output of 29 kW (40 hp) to produce a peak of 140 kW (187 hp).[2]

So close to the Accord's numbers. Granted the Accord's is just the base 4-banger and not a hybrid but oh well!:thumbsup:
How fast is the 190hp Accord? Keep in mind it's the same engine just with more hp at a higher rpm (torque remains almost the same). The TCH will give the 190hp Accord a run for its money to 60mph not to mention mpg.

Technically Toyota already does.

So close to the Accord's numbers. Granted the Accord's is just the base 4-banger and not a hybrid but oh well!:thumbsup:

I wonder what the price differential is between the two. I'm sure the TCH is more expensive.

The Accord coupe I4 does 0-60mph in around 7.5 seconds.

In some acceleration runs on youtube for the TCH, its under 8 seconds thats forsure http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh43kiARdU8

Still looking forward to how the styling will be for the 2010 model :)

I wonder what the price differential is between the two. I'm sure the TCH is more expensive.

The Accord coupe I4 does 0-60mph in around 7.5 seconds.

'09 Accord EX starts at $24,255, Camry Hybrid at $26,150. Keep in mind that it's not easy finding a base Camry hybrid, and comparably equipped the Camry will actually be around $28,000 because you'd have to add a moonroof and the upgrade package. The Accord also does not offer the Smartkey system or offer dual-zone auto climate control on the regular EX. (Standard on EX-L).

I'm hoping for the Valvematic 2.0 in a Camry sometime soon.Not to mention Toyotas fine diesels.

I'm hoping for the Valvematic 2.0 in a Camry sometime soon.Not to mention Toyotas fine diesels.

The Valvematic 2.0-litre engine in a Camry may sell in Asia but I doubt it would sell in North America. That engine may have the high horsepower figure to match the current 2.4-litre engine, but it does not have the torque available that North Americans like and need for quick acceleration away from traffic lights or for passing on the highway.

There are likely enough people who complain that the 4-cylinder Camry is too slow that the smaller 4-cylinder in the Camry would never sell in North America.

the diesel camry would be a viable option

One thing I noticed is this: The larger the engine displacement is, the more transmission gears it will have in order achieve the same mileage as the previous generation.

One thing I noticed is this: The larger the engine displacement is, the more transmission gears it will have in order achieve the same mileage as the previous generation.

That's sort of true. Toyota's newest engines usually have internal upgrades and engineering to reduce friction and pumping loss. The extra ratios do allow lower cruising RPM since you can tune the first 3-4 gears for acceleration, and have 5-6 gear as overdrive gears. The problem with that is usually in hilly/mountainous areas where low engine RPM doesn't produce enough torque to maintain speed. So, in effect, you have to use more fuel and higher RPM anyway (usually the equivalent of a 5 speed auto).

I think fuel injector shutoff when off-throttle in gear and under braking offers the best improvement in efficiency. A 6-speed transmission offers better acceleration and slightly lower cruising RPM (you can only go so low in a 4 cylinder) due to its number of gears. Other improvements come from anti-bog programming in the newest transmissions which makes the transmission downshift to keep the engine efficient as opposed to the previous fuel saving measure of keeping it in top gear as long as possible, even on hilly terrain. Hilly terrain + top gear = engine bog and wasted fuel.

And always remember that WOT is an open loop program in the ECU, which means there are no modifications to the base fuel map. It basically just dumps tons of fuel into the cylinders because it doesn't rely on readings from any sensors, including the Air/Fuel Ratio sensors. So, watch your pedal position. Acceleration is also open loop, which is why stop and go traffic wastes so much gas.

the diesel camry would be a viable option
Meh, with prices these days the difference in fuel economy between gas and diesel doesn't make up for the extra $1+ per gallon. IMO.

From another forum:

180 HP I4 with 6 speed trans.
Revised tail lights, headligfhts and grille
Smart key to be available on more models
Two new colors - a green and a tan/beige
New Wheel designs
XM radi std. on JBL sound systems
Active headrests

Production to begin in 02 or 03/2009

is this all the camry needs??? or meets the expectations?

is this all the camry needs??? or meets the expectations?
doubt it. I wish they did more (like two-stage heated seats)

The '10 Camry is gonna get 2.5L 2AR-FE 4 cyl. rated at 179hp/172-173tQ and EB63 6 speed manual transaxle to improve power and better economy than the 2AZ. No manual for the 3.5L V6 (I would b happier if they did!). You'll notice more changes on the SE models than the other models on the line up in Late Feb 2009. The 2.5L is gonna be in the Hybrids as well. This is the latest from Toyota.

can't wait... 2.5 more months!!! hopefully pics will leak before then

So fast? really? we don't have to wait for the 2012 Camry to get the 2.5 litre in the Hybrid? nice!

I have heard about the TCH and camry next year getting the 2.5 but haven't heard about whether or not the auto trans will be a 5 or 6 speed.

Interesting...

Remember Toyota said it was going to be very aggressive in updating its powertrain options by 2010 to keep ahead of the CAFE mandates. I would've thought they'd push it back to 2012 because of the global economic slowdown, but I guess they are pushing forward. The plans were probably already in place before the collapse anyway.

EB63? No EA? Hmm, I suppose this makes sense since the EAs are designed for massive diesel torque. That makes me wonder if the Toyota/Subaru tC will use a Toyota 6-speed manual and a Subaru boxer engine. Endless speculation. We'll see I guess.

I think Toyota plans to use the EA60-63 in the 2010 Lotus Evora, which uses the 2GR-FE. That'll require a stronger tranny. That's our only hope of seeing the 3.5L V6 mated to a 6 speed manual. But for $72k ... yeah well, it's not worth it.

Good point. 2010 was when all engines will be revampd, right?

2010 Camry NCF has been posted by Toyota.

V6 engine is the unchanged 3.5L 2GR-FE
I4 engine is the updated 2.5L 2AR-FE (179hp in SE model, 169hp in all others)
Hybrid engine is the unchanged 2.4L 2AZ-FXE

The 2AR-FE manual transmission is the new 6-speed manual transmission EB62.

The 2AR-FE automatic transmission is the new 6-speed automatic transmission U760E.

The EB62 has a CSC type slave cylinder mounted inside the bellhousing, should be replaced any time the tranny is pulled off.

All models get auto down and auto up power windows for all 4 doors.

SE 4-cylinder models now have dual exhaust.

Hybrid models now have fog lights.

TCS / VSC off switch added.

New headlights, new tail lights, all models now have LED tail lights.

Updated fascias for the front and rear of the vehicle.

SKS is available on some models other than the Hybrid as well.

Along with some other minor crap here and there.

The 2010 Corolla and Matrix are basically carry-overs from 2009. There are some "LE" grade upgrades in store for the USA market, along with TCS and VSC becoming standard for USA model Corollas. 2010 XRS's will continue with the 2AZ-FE.


Jeff

Toyota seems to be adding auto up/down for all 4 windows to the new vehicles - first the Venza and now the Camry.


Are you posting Canadian or US features?

I wonder if Toyota is keeping the 2AZ around for another year to give them time to hybridize the 2AR? If so, will the 2011 Camry Hybrid switch to the 2AR, as well as a Venza Hybrid being available, or will it be a 2 year wait, with the 2AR + HSD not available until the next generation 2012 Camry? If it is the longer wait, that would give Ford a long advantage with their new Fusion Hybrid that they claim is better than the Camry Hybrid.

And with the new 2010 RXh available with the 2GR, will the 2010 Highlander Hybrid switch from the 3MZ to the 2GR, finally retiring the MZ engine family?

...
The EB62 has a CSC type slave cylinder mounted inside the bellhousing, should be replaced any time the tranny is pulled off.
...
Jeff
What is this?

Hydraulic pressure presses directly against the release bearing. It is used by other manufacturers. I'm not really a big fan of it, if it ever leaks, it's inside the bellhousing, meaning the tranny has to be removed, plus it will probably contaminate the clutch disc, etc.

Jeff

http://www.pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/toyota/2010-camry-introduced.aspx
its here....

Hybrid:Uglier to me... HUGE let down :(

I like the changes....especially the hybrid actually. The new grill is much more unique to the hybrid from the other models and it has a certain high tech sort of feel to it.

Looks like they implemented a hint of Prius/Corolla in the front.

I expected a nicer grille on the CE, LE, SE, XLE models =/

They went the other way -_-"

THe Hybrid looks nice though, matches the Prius in a way

I like the changes....especially the hybrid actually. The new grill is much more unique to the hybrid from the other models and it has a certain high tech sort of feel to it.

I expected a nicer grille on the CE, LE, SE, XLE models =/

They went the other way -_-"

THe Hybrid looks nice though, matches the Prius in a way
I prefer the new looks of the Hybrid better than the LE, SE, XLE (no CE in Canada) also. The lease on my current Camry expires in just over a year (likely just after the introduction of the 2011 Camry, IF the 2010 model sticks around for only a year), and I may consider switching to the TCH. Hopefully by then, the TCH will come with the new 2AR + HSD drivetrain.

(no CE in Canada)
Only mentioned it for the americans xD

The Hybrid for once looks different than the gas counterparts =)

Yuck i'm very appalled with the facelift. Also that chrome trim on the license plat garnish is very tacky.

I Thought I Was The Only One.

I prefer the new looks of the Hybrid better than the LE, SE, XLE (no CE in Canada) also. The lease on my current Camry expires in just over a year (likely just after the introduction of the 2011 Camry, IF the 2010 model sticks around for only a year), and I may consider switching to the TCH. Hopefully by then, the TCH will come with the new 2AR + HSD drivetrain.
I'm starting to think that the 2AR will stick around until the redesign for the 2011/2012 model. Reason being that the Lexus HS 250h apparently has the same engine for its hybrid setup. Why introduce a new vehicle with an old engine if you don't plan to use that for a bit longer. Guessing here. I was wrong about the 2.7L from the Venza going into the Camry...its the 2.5L. Same new engine family tho :)

I think I've got a post in here from many, many months ago saying that there was only room to go downhill in the "freshened" styling. My thoughts, now that I've seen it:

1. Headlights are indeed worse -- how could you change the classic, three same-sized-in-a-row elements without mucking it up a bit? Still, it's not too awful, from what I can tell.

2. Taillights are "changed for no good reason." I prefer to have amber turn signals at the high, outside location in a taillight assembly, which the original Gen 6 has. Refresh supposedly has LED's, but I suppose it remains to be seen what the "turn signals" will wind up being.

3. Grilles: Looks like there's some squaring of the logo area, "plus additional chrome." I presume the photo of the blue car is the XLE, with its newly chrome-ringed fog lamps. Looks like SE gets chrome around its grille, and a "fiercer" look to the whole front clip. Whoopee. Not too sure what to say about the hybrid. I prefer "more grille" than that, generally.

4. Other note: The rear-view picture is a new green color.

5. Other note: Satellite radio bump on the roof.

6. Other note: Looks like the end of the "teal blue" center console bits, replaced with plain old silver.

Bottom line? I usually haven't been too enthused with Toyota model refreshes -- "change some things for no good reason and add some extra chrome" pretty well sums it up for me. I think this is right in that same old bucket.

Yeah styling wise I don't think it's a good change, not bad, but it's not better just different IMO.

But the upgrades to the SE 4-cylinder are fantastic. Makes me consider trading my XRS for one.

Jeff

Hydraulic pressure presses directly against the release bearing. It is used by other manufacturers. I'm not really a big fan of it, if it ever leaks, it's inside the bellhousing, meaning the tranny has to be removed, plus it will probably contaminate the clutch disc, etc.

Jeff


Which manufacturers use it? Yes, doesn't sound like a good idea, that's a lot of labor to replace something simple. Is this tranny currently used on anything else?

Chevrolet uses it quite a bit, the Corvette has it. My 1994 Ford Ranger has the same type of setup as well.

Jeff

Chevrolet uses it quite a bit, the Corvette has it. My 1994 Ford Ranger has the same type of setup as well.

Jeff

Why use it? What is its purpose?

Lighter, more compact, less parts.

Not serviceability though, haha.

Jeff