Has Toyota Lost the Plot in Europe?

Toyota, the company which once seemed to have the Midas touch as far as winning new customers was concerned, must be scratching its head to work out what it is doing wrong just now in Europe, where its sales are tumbling faster than any of its competitors.

Most major players are suffering from the recent economic downturn, which has hit the Italian and Spanish markets particularly hard, but Toyota is the worst-hit of all the major manufacturers, with its western European sales crashing 19% in June alone.

The company’s premium Lexus division is suffering a similar decline, dipping below troubled Jaguar. It is miles adrift of BMW, Mercedes and Audi and has a big credibility gap to fill.

Despite building the vast majority of its mainstream cars at European plants and trumpeting they are designed by and for Europeans, Toyota’s range doesn’t seem to be top of anyone’s shopping list just at the moment.

The company’s understandable decision not to get involved in price cutting doesn’t help either, in an increasingly cut-throat market....the extremely frugal Aygo hatchback... manages to look better than its French sisters and is affordable too....the Yaris hatchback... another economical choice although it is a little on the expensive side, particularly as it has to compete in one of the most hotly contested sectors of the whole European car market with buyers spoilt for choice these days in terms of stylish, good quality bargain buys.Toyota’s mainstream Auris hatchback, which is built in England, competes head on with the class-leading VW Golf, Ford Focus and Opel Astra, but somehow seems just a little too dull and safe to be of the current decade.In truth it is hardly the huge step forward from its Corolla predecessor the much-trumpeted change of name promised. Honda’s launch of the very bold new Civic made the Auris look particularly timid by comparison. Ouch!

...the ageing Avensis, ...available as a four-door saloon, five-door hatchback and estate car... the classic configuration adopted by rivals like the Ford Mondeo and Opel Vectra, but the whole sector has been shrinking as people switch to cars with premium badges.

The Avensis comes across as perfectly adequate but nothing special. A lot of them seem to end up as taxis, whose drivers appreciate their bullet-proof reputation for reliability.There is a new Avensis on its way. Let's hope that it is a worthy competitor to the Ford Mondeo.

Toyota has a decent smaller MPV, the Verso... which is once again competent but not a class-leader. It gains plenty of green kudos from the presence of the hybrid Prius, but rather fewer sales.Europeans never really understood the Camry, which was far too big and bland for tastes on this side of the pond, and after a long life in obscurity faded away altogether a few years ago, leaving Lexus to pick up buyers wanting something large and hopefully more special.

Toyota’s prolonged success with 4X4s, particularly with the class-leading RAV 4, also seems to be coming to an end with the arrival of Volkswagen’s newer, funkier Tiguan, and other European rivals...

In Germany, western Europe’s biggest car market and the one everyone wants to do well in, Toyota’s share of the market has declined steeply to a just 3.6 per cent, down from 4.2 per cent in 2007.

Globally, Toyota is now predicting sales of 9.5 million vehicles this year, down from a previous estimate of 9.85 million. As well as Europe, sales are falling in Japan, but expanding in new markets like China, Russia, India and Brazil - in the latter Toyota recently announced it is building a new 150,000-vehicle plant to come on stream by 2011.

This is all well and good, but Toyota can’t afford to lose its way in Europe, at a time when rival Nissan doing well with its new products, particularly the Qashqai. The Qashqai is the European equivalent to the Nissan Rogue.

Toyota still has a great reputation for reliability, but badly needs attractive new cars that connect with the consumer and are more than just a dependable appliance.

The company’s slogan used to be: “The Car In Front Is A Toyota” but nowadays that certainly doesn’t mean at the front of the pack.

Help will soon be at hand, with the first new Toyota model due to see the light of day being the tiny iQ microcar in January 2009. This should be followed by the Urban Cruiser small SUV in late spring.

However, the competition is far from standing still so let’s hope something interesting can be pulled out of the hat in the middle of the range too, or those sales figures could keep tumbling yet awhile.Source: http://www.autosavant.net/2008/07/has-toyota-lost-plot-in-europe.html

Could it be that the competition (Volkswagen's Tiguan, for instance) has finally caught up, so that Toyota needs new, class-leading vehicles?

Or, could it be that in a recession, the typically nationalistic Europeans become even more so, and rally around to protect their own?

Seems Europeans are more demanding in exciting cars than we are. Which seems logical. North America is generally a conservative bunch. Hence Toyota sales are good at least up until now, well for some segments.

Anyway maybe that's why Toyota is bringing back the Celica to Europe. I hope this encourages Toyota to have more balls. yes I know they are a conservative company and very cautious which isn't bad but don't want to go overboard that way or the competition will pass you, obviously depending on market demands. Maybe it will spawn more exciting cars for the U.S market but I don't think so.

"class-leading VW Golf, Ford Focus and Opel Astra"
This might have been the case back in 2004. Peugeot 308, Honda Civic and Toyota Auris are the new guys in the segment, and thus the cars to beat, unless class-leading is found using the sales charts in Germany...

I don't see any huge problems with the European model mix:
City cars Aygo is still class leading with the iQ under way.
Supermini: Yaris is still one of the best all-rounders, and the price is high because the product can carry it.
Small city car: Auris. Not the revolution I expected. The article might be right here, but is confused about the cars in the segment
Large family car: Avensis. Sells because of reliability and low prices. Will soon be replaced
SUV: Rav4. It might not have the bulbous shape of some of the latest rivals, but get inside and you will find out why it is the segment leader.

Lost the "plot"?

Seems Europeans are more demanding in exciting cars than we are. Which seems logical. North America is generally a conservative bunch. Hence Toyota sales are good at least up until now, well for some segments.

Anyway maybe that's why Toyota is bringing back the Celica to Europe. I hope this encourages Toyota to have more balls. yes I know they are a conservative company and very cautious which isn't bad but don't want to go overboard that way or the competition will pass you, obviously depending on market demands. Maybe it will spawn more exciting cars for the U.S market but I don't think so.

I would say that North Americans are not demanding enough, not conservative. North Americans may be conservative in politics, but not when it comes to cars. A conservative taste in cars would be a true appreciation of the Volkswagen Rabbit, Jetta and Passat; or the previous generation Mercedes-Benz C-Class and S-Class. (And, of course the Corolla and Camry.) These are cars with not much show, but plenty else to make them good cars, nonetheless.

How else do you explain the over-dressed rental car specials that GM has produced over the years? Those were cars with a lot to show (even if I really did not like that kind of show), but not much else to make them attractive as cars. How else do you explain the terrible Cavalier seemingly assembled by 3-year olds? How else do you explain the Grand Am which was made "sporty" by slathering it in rubbery-feeling plastic, both inside and out? Or all the Buicks and Cadillacs covered tastelessly in chrome?

"class-leading VW Golf, Ford Focus and Opel Astra"
This might have been the case back in 2004. Peugeot 308, Honda Civic and Toyota Auris are the new guys in the segment, and thus the cars to beat, unless class-leading is found using the sales charts in Germany...

I don't see any huge problems with the European model mix:
City cars Aygo is still class leading with the iQ under way.
Supermini: Yaris is still one of the best all-rounders, and the price is high because the product can carry it.
Small city car: Auris. Not the revolution I expected. The article might be right here, but is confused about the cars in the segment
Large family car: Avensis. Sells because of reliability and low prices. Will soon be replaced
SUV: Rav4. It might not have the bulbous shape of some of the latest rivals, but get inside and you will find out why it is the segment leader.

Lost the "plot"?

So you think the problem is not with Toyota's products in Europe, other than the Auris? Is the problem then merely a cyclical, recessionary one?

I am curious to know what you think Toyota could do to incrementally improve its products. What should be done about the Auris, for instance? What would you like to see in the new Avensis?

I would say that North Americans are not demanding enough, not conservative. North Americans may be conservative in politics, but not when it comes to cars. A conservative taste in cars would be a true appreciation of the Volkswagen Rabbit, Jetta and Passat; or the previous generation Mercedes-Benz C-Class and S-Class. (And, of course the Corolla and Camry.) These are cars with not much show, but plenty else to make them good cars, nonetheless.

How else do you explain the over-dressed rental car specials that GM has produced over the years? Those were cars with a lot to show (even if I really did not like that kind of show), but not much else to make them attractive as cars. How else do you explain the terrible Cavalier seemingly assembled by 3-year olds? How else do you explain the Grand Am which was made "sporty" by slathering it in rubbery-feeling plastic, both inside and out? Or all the Buicks and Cadillacs covered tastelessly in chrome?




Yeah, that could be it as well. Not demanding enough. On top of that 90% if not more opt for an auto by default, at least from my observation. Obviously there are enthusiasts out there but not enough to justify the manual in higher end cars. Which is understandable in some respects. Well I guess I meant conservative in choice of cars. Obviously the baby boomers and the generation after that are the biggest market. So generally they are conservative. They want appliances, not all of them but most. A to B cars. Which isn't bad, if that's what you're looking for. As you know, probably Americans more than Canadians we're a image conscious society, which isn't bad to some extent we all have our styles. But anyway I think because of that big demographic it tends to lean to conservative. But over the years I think this market is becoming less conservative. You have Scion, you have the MINI and Smart. Reason I mentioned those is I think 10 years ago or less those would have not sold as well or be well received. Yes gas prices helped but I'm talking more of style and type of cars. Especially the Smart. Yes its a novelty car but the whole mentality of bigger is better is starting to be chipped away at. See what I mean?? Sort of? Not really? Neither do I:lol::lol::lol:

Also we're very price conscience. We obviously equate size with price. But not only is that our mentality but also that's the way it was set up here in the U.S. as far as product offerings. So if that's all we see naturally we get that mind set. Cause most companies have lower end cars (Small) and upper end cars (big). Which makes sense to some extent. Not everyone can afford a 20-30k car, or a brand new car. So where I'm going with this is premium compact cars. MINI has shattered that mentality you have to have bare bones no frills in a small car. With sports cars everyone wants cheap but they want 400 plus out of the box. exaggeration but you get the point. So obviously on the sports car front its a tight rope of thin profit margin and creating a car to appeal to people that will sell. I know Toyota has the resources and is capable of creating a "cheap" sports car but I think they lost the whole niche' thing. I know they are a mainstream company but the fact that they focused on that more than niche' they probably don't have what it takes to make a niche' car to last long. Yes I understand market changes but if you look in the past very few of Toyota's sports cars lasted. The Celica and the Supra. MR2, but its come and gone. And now they're gone. And now Scion is dangerously leaning towards mainstream as far as products and pricing and what not.

Sulu...

Here in NA I'm of the opinion that we actually don't want much from our compacts except reliability and low price. We prefer to spend our car dollars on midsizers ( autos and SUVs and Crossovers ). Compacts are for those starting out, those on a severe budget, those that only need 4 wheels and 4 doors. The idea of a $25000 class leading compact is incomprehensible to the NA buying public. Canada may be somewhat of an exception though.

Now as fuel drives more of us to drive smaller this all may change. All the vehicle makers decontent their top of the line euro-compacts for the NA market. All the enthusiasts complain about this decontenting. 'Why can't WE get the good styling and content and engines and performance that the Euro's do in their compacts?'

'Because you/I/we don't want to pay for it.' ... as a group, not as individuals.

Sulu...

Here in NA I'm of the opinion that we actually don't want much from our compacts except reliability and low price. We prefer to spend our car dollars on midsizers ( autos and SUVs and Crossovers ). Compacts are for those starting out, those on a severe budget, those that only need 4 wheels and 4 doors. The idea of a $25000 class leading compact is incomprehensible to the NA buying public. Canada may be somewhat of an exception though.

Now as fuel drives more of us to drive smaller this all may change. All the vehicle makers decontent their top of the line euro-compacts for the NA market. All the enthusiasts complain about this decontenting. 'Why can't WE get the good styling and content and engines and performance that the Euro's do in their compacts?'

'Because you/I/we don't want to pay for it.' ... as a group, not as individuals.

kdhspyder, thanks. I do understand. I just think that if North Americans had expected (and demanded) something more than just lowest-common-denominator cars, that we could have had something better, at a similar cost. We got what we expected.

I think that we are seeing that now. People in influential positions are starting to expect and demand better American vehicles, and we are starting to see them: the Malibu, the new Cadillacs, and the new Euro compacts and sub-compacts that have been promised from Ford.

But that is off-topic. I am hoping for more input from European members of TN. I am hoping to learn more about the European car market, what they expect, and if what Toyota provides them is much different than what they provide us here in North America.

selling reliability and fuel economy are obviously two very attractive things, and it clearly works well (corolla + yaris + prius all have a waiting list at least in the US), but the problem is that can only go so far when everybody else is striving to sell at the same points. biggest problem is everybody else tag on their own unique attractions to their products (like mazda with their cheesy but memorable "zoom zoom zoom") and toyota's pretty much running on reliability and fuel efficiency alone

toyota is obviously selling extremely good products but the thing is it's losing out in the "fun for your buck" department

So you think the problem is not with Toyota's products in Europe, other than the Auris? Is the problem then merely a cyclical, recessionary one?

I am curious to know what you think Toyota could do to incrementally improve its products. What should be done about the Auris, for instance? What would you like to see in the new Avensis?

I think the problem with Auris is pretty severe - it lack when it comes to the interior, and although I like the looks, I seem to be a problem as well that it quickly becomes "conservative".

Toyota blew it on the interior quality. The interior has great looks, but the nice materials were reserved for the Corolla (sedan and Station wagon) versions. I have not read a single review where this disappointment wasn't highlighted, so I hope Toyota will do as with the Verso: completely redesign it within 2 years!

Toyota can't have a bread-and-butter model like, and I fear for the new Avensis. Toyota might have balls when it comes to the smaller cars - now it's time to show the same with the big ones.

I think the problem with Auris is pretty severe - it lack when it comes to the interior, and although I like the looks, I seem to be a problem as well that it quickly becomes "conservative".

Toyota blew it on the interior quality. The interior has great looks, but the nice materials were reserved for the Corolla (sedan and Station wagon) versions. I have not read a single review where this disappointment wasn't highlighted, so I hope Toyota will do as with the Verso: completely redesign it within 2 years!

Toyota can't have a bread-and-butter model like, and I fear for the new Avensis. Toyota might have balls when it comes to the smaller cars - now it's time to show the same with the big ones.
Thanks for the comments! After reading this, I quickly found some reviews of the Auris and Avensis from UK reviewers. They basically said bland, and neither drives or handles as well as its Volkswagen (Golf and Passat) or Ford (Focus and Mondeo) competitors. The steering seems to be a problem, and the petrol (gasoline) engines are not that smooth or quiet at speed, although the diesel engines are nice.

I have not yet looked for reviews of Toyota's smaller cars, but I trust that you have a good eye. So, yes, I agree that Toyota needs to do something better with their larger cars.

I think the problem with Auris is pretty severe - it lack when it comes to the interior, and although I like the looks, I seem to be a problem as well that it quickly becomes "conservative".

Toyota blew it on the interior quality. The interior has great looks, but the nice materials were reserved for the Corolla (sedan and Station wagon) versions. I have not read a single review where this disappointment wasn't highlighted, so I hope Toyota will do as with the Verso: completely redesign it within 2 years!

Toyota can't have a bread-and-butter model like, and I fear for the new Avensis. Toyota might have balls when it comes to the smaller cars - now it's time to show the same with the big ones.


Toyota generally has that problem. Like here in the U.S. the reviewers complained that the XRS of the Corolla lacked road feel and felt numb. Obviously owners might say otherwise. But I think its not only the electronic steering but also the way Toyota set it up. Its not precise. That's the problem with Toyota. They make a one size fits all. Which is fine, but they should have at least some niche cars or have at least one trim model on most of their cars that focus on sporty and road feel. Yes that's what the Corolla XRS is supposed to do but it doesn't do it well from what I heard.

I know Toyota has an upward battle with Lexus in the German dominated luxury segment but I remember reading not long ago Lexus was doing well but I guess not anymore. I wonder if the "F" division will help??? Or the LF-A to raise the profile of the brand among Europeans. Although sales are down for Lexus here, they are the biggest selling luxury brand in the U.S. Which is significant cause the U.S. is Toyota's largest market. But Europe is just as important.

Thanks for your opinion across the pond. If you have more insight let us know!

It is the same for most family cars reviewed by the magazines. If you want to know how a car drives, you have to try it out yourself - or else we would all be driving BMW 3-series... like in England.
Toyota can tune electrical servos perfectly. It did so with the latest European Yaris.
I think reviews are best used to get an early impression of the interior, but more importantly, ergonomics and versatility. I can't get a good impression of how well a car handles when fully loaded or how it's like to drive in it for extended periods when I'm out for a test drive, or perhaps I'm trying the cars at the wrong dealership? :D

Regarding test drives. I have heard that the dealer is sometimes with you for the test drive in USA, and he might even be the one who drives!
Last time I didn't even have to show my license. The dealer simply handed over the key and waved.

And then there's Lexus. I think more diesel options will help a lot more than an F-division. IS is the only one with a diesel right now. It is a great engine, but Lexus needs more options... and a lot better dealer network.

It is the same for most family cars reviewed by the magazines. If you want to know how a car drives, you have to try it out yourself - or else we would all be driving BMW 3-series... like in England.
Toyota can tune electrical servos perfectly. It did so with the latest European Yaris.
I think reviews are best used to get an early impression of the interior, but more importantly, ergonomics and versatility. I can't get a good impression of how well a car handles when fully loaded or how it's like to drive in it for extended periods when I'm out for a test drive, or perhaps I'm trying the cars at the wrong dealership? :D

Regarding test drives. I have heard that the dealer is sometimes with you for the test drive in USA, and he might even be the one who drives!
Last time I didn't even have to show my license. The dealer simply handed over the key and waved.

And then there's Lexus. I think more diesel options will help a lot more than an F-division. IS is the only one with a diesel right now. It is a great engine, but Lexus needs more options... and a lot better dealer network.


Yes. Sometimes depending on dealer, and ciients the sales person will go with you. if its a family the sales person will sit in the back or front or not at all. Sometimes they ask if they want the sales person along or not. Most I think don't want a sales person there. I don't. You feel under scrutiny. But there can be some cool sales people you don't mind, it depends. In my experience I was by myself. Even for the Prius when it came out in 2004 (second gen). In the U.S. its about liability and accountability. I understand a dealership wouldn't just hand over the keys without scanning the license.

Yeah I think Lexus is stil trying to obviously branch out. So now the dealership network is not a high but I think they're working on it. What about performance diesels for the F division?
THanks for the insight!

Toyota should hold free public relations events.... like Mini did with their Cooper and Clubman, sending out invites by email for those who signed up and giving potential owners a chance to thrash the cars around a closed autocross circuit for a couple hours comparing them back to back with competitors products. It was like being an automotive journalist for a day.:)

Toyota still has a great reputation for reliability, but badly needs attractive new cars that connect with the consumer and are more than just a dependable appliance.

I´ll better feed the :Bruce:

thing is europe is big on FUN cars
even daily drivers have to be FUN


even here in the US people want 30+ mpg with lots of fun
something toyota doesnt deliver
its a trade of i guess.
i know people say toyota doesnt need sports cars
which might be true
but they need something spicy rather than bland
the XRS models for cars and the TRD Offroad Models for trucks
usually dont cut it.