2009 Toyota Yaris facelift

http://pressroom.toyota.com/?page=images&criteria=MY08+Yaris&st=kw


I didn't know the Yaris was undergoing styling changes. I guess this goes along with the new 5 door hatchback.
I like the new seats of the sedan and I also noticed it's a base model with the upgraded stereo unit.
Those new wheelcovers have got to go though.

The fogs look kinda funky, doesn't really fit the Yaris's shape.

http://pressroom.toyota.com/?page=images&criteria=MY08+Yaris&st=kw


I didn't know the Yaris was undergoing styling changes. I guess this goes along with the new 5 door hatchback.
I like the new seats of the sedan and I also noticed it's a base model with the upgraded stereo unit.
Those new wheelcovers have got to go though.


Yep. The main thing is probably competition from the new FIT. Also I remember reading Toyota wanted to incorporate their star safety system in every car including the lowest. So the Yaris now has all this safety stuff standard at a bargain price.

Well the Yaris should be over due for a redesign soon isn't it? The Yaris we have here has been out in Europe and Japan for awhile already. And since the new Fit's are arriving in Sept, should be about time isn't it?

Its sad how when you want a proper small car, the Yaris and Fit are the only offerings available.

http://tyt.tnpv.net/Image/2008/08/TYT2008080555511_PV.jpg

I like it... but then again, I like my xB too.

I like the 07/08 Canadian Yaris RS better.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/2008_Canadian_Toyota_Yaris_RS.jpg

Fan

That red looks good.

Well the Yaris should be over due for a redesign soon isn't it? The Yaris we have here has been out in Europe and Japan for awhile already. And since the new Fit's are arriving in Sept, should be about time isn't it?

Its sad how when you want a proper small car, the Yaris and Fit are the only offerings available.


The current JDM Vitz which is sold as the Yaris hatch over seas was introduced in 05. So going with the industry 5 year life cycle (average) then yes the Vitz/Yaris is due. The first country outside of Japan to get the second gen Yaris hatch was Canada. Then Europe then other places. The USDM version came out in the spring of 06 as an 07 model, the Canadian 06 model run was short and the 07s came out same time as the USDM 07s. Generally there is a facelift with all cars through the mid-cycle life of the car to keep its appeal and of course you have competition. So if we're going on a 5 year cycle then the USDM version the 2010 model would get the refresh. But there are exceptions and 2 years into the life of the car the refresh comes. Like I said before the new FIT coming to the U.S. is probably why Toyota went with the refresh earlier.

For now you have the FIT and Yaris. You also have the Accent and its KIA counter part. But soon there will be more offerings. Wait tiil 2009-2010/011 model years. The barrage of small cars are coming or at least rumored to or believed to be coming to the U.S. I can't wait! we'll finally have some cool offerings in the U.S. I wouldn't mind a Polo TDI. :naughty:

The current JDM Vitz which is sold as the Yaris hatch over seas was introduced in 05. So going with the industry 5 year life cycle (average) then yes the Vitz/Yaris is due. The first country outside of Japan to get the second gen Yaris hatch was Canada. Then Europe then other places. The USDM version came out in the spring of 06 as an 07 model, the Canadian 06 model run was short and the 07s came out same time as the USDM 07s. Generally there is a facelift with all cars through the mid-cycle life of the car to keep its appeal and of course you have competition. So if we're going on a 5 year cycle then the USDM version the 2010 model would get the refresh. But there are exceptions and 2 years into the life of the car the refresh comes. Like I said before the new FIT coming to the U.S. is probably why Toyota went with the refresh earlier.

For now you have the FIT and Yaris. You also have the Accent and its KIA counter part. But soon there will be more offerings. Wait tiil 2009-2010/011 model years. The barrage of small cars are coming or at least rumored to or believed to be coming to the U.S. I can't wait! we'll finally have some cool offerings in the U.S. I wouldn't mind a Polo TDI. :naughty:

Oh I thought the Yaris was older than that. I vaguely remember we were shafted, maybe that was just the Echo hatch. I remember knowing about the Echo hatch from Gran Turismo and enjoy spanking my brother's STi with a turbo Echo. Ahh the fun times.

While Hyundai/Kia's larger offerings are getting praise, I'm still somewhat doubting their ability in smaller cars. Too many horror stories with the Accent.

I know the Polo should be coming, but when? VW isn't known for their timely introductions of models into the North American market. We also have Alfa coming back.... whenever that will be, with their Mito. There is also the MB A class, which I don't see coming, same with the Ford Ka? Are they calling that Fiesta again?
Still I find knowing they might come is one thing, actually coming is another. I just don't see it happening yet, usually they are just all talk.

Dont forget as well that GM is redoing that Aveo and Ford is coming out with the Festiva or Fiesta or whatever.
Toyota knows they have to at least freshen up the styling in order to stay competitive.

We drove the Nissan Versa 5 door when we were looking at cars... actually went there to 'buy' an Altima and the salesman talked us into "trying it". He doesn't know it but that cost him the Altima sale. The Versa was a pretty decent drive that ended up getting us looking as smaller vehicles and ending up with the xB. The roundabout point here is that the Versa is probably another on the "list" for those of us who don't want a small three box sedan like Civic, Sentra or Corolla.

Looks nice. The alloys are very close to the ES Ultra-Premium Package alloy wheels in terms of design.

While Hyundai/Kia's larger offerings are getting praise, I'm still somewhat doubting their ability in smaller cars. Too many horror stories with the Accent.
The Accent is an alright car, nothing special but its decent and has some pep. The older Hyundais were very bad cars especially compared to today's much better and modern cars. The Kia on the other hand is still rubbish, until I see the Kias in our fleet not have constant problems I won't touch one. GMs consist the bulk of my branch's fleet and are far more reliable. The Yaris is still the most favoured of the small cars from our customer feedback, the Kia is still the worst and deserves to be.

The Accent got horrid crash test reviews if I remember right. Kia is juat another Hyundai... I believe Hyundai even owns Kia.

The Accent got horrid crash test reviews if I remember right. Kia is juat another Hyundai... I believe Hyundai even owns Kia.
Not only does Hyundai own Kia, they make exactly the same cars. Its just different badges.

Oh I thought the Yaris was older than that. I vaguely remember we were shafted, maybe that was just the Echo hatch. I remember knowing about the Echo hatch from Gran Turismo and enjoy spanking my brother's STi with a turbo Echo. Ahh the fun times.

While Hyundai/Kia's larger offerings are getting praise, I'm still somewhat doubting their ability in smaller cars. Too many horror stories with the Accent.

I know the Polo should be coming, but when? VW isn't known for their timely introductions of models into the North American market. We also have Alfa coming back.... whenever that will be, with their Mito. There is also the MB A class, which I don't see coming, same with the Ford Ka? Are they calling that Fiesta again?
Still I find knowing they might come is one thing, actually coming is another. I just don't see it happening yet, usually they are just all talk.


Okay, maybe I just misread what you meant. I was talking about the Yaris but second gen. You are referring to the first gen. You are correct then sir, the first gen came out late nighties. And was car of the year in Europe and Japan in 2000 or there about. North America got the ECHO sedan was was sold as the Yaris sedan around the around or in some other parts and in the home market as the Platz. So yes North America got shafted on the first gen Yaris hatch. Except, Canada got the Yaris hatch but that was the last two model years. Obviously at the time it was sold as the ECHO hatch. Which was immensely popular in Canada. Toyota did what Honduh did. Bring over an existing car when its life-cycle is almost up. It cuts costs down but at the same time test the market if you will. its model run in Canada was two years then the second gen Yaris hatch came out in Canada. So for the second gen Vitz hatch it is now sold under the global name of Yaris. So the U.S. finally gets the Yaris hatch, first gen to us, second gen to the rest of the world. Hope that clears up some confusion, maybe just makes some more:lol::lol::lol:


On VW with the Polo. Cross your fingers. THere are reports of them exporting it but who knows. Nothing is confirmed. It seems VW is taking their dandy time or just unsure. Stupid I say. How can you look at the U.S. market right now and go "humm, should we bring over a competitive gas saving car or just make another cross over?" Its kind of a no brainer. None of their cars get good mileage compared to the others in their respective class, unless its a TDI model. But the gassers aren't that great, at least the North American ones. Alfa I heard was going to be 2010/2011, or so. That would be cool. The Ford Ka at this point I don't think its coming. But the Fiesta is coming, based on the Verve concept. We'll see if Ford unglyfies it with its American design language. The Ka is a smaller car I believe. The Fiat 500 is based off the same platform. :thumbsup:

Oh I thought the Yaris was older than that. I vaguely remember we were shafted, maybe that was just the Echo hatch. I remember knowing about the Echo hatch from Gran Turismo and enjoy spanking my brother's STi with a turbo Echo. Ahh the fun times.

While Hyundai/Kia's larger offerings are getting praise, I'm still somewhat doubting their ability in smaller cars. Too many horror stories with the Accent.

I know the Polo should be coming, but when? VW isn't known for their timely introductions of models into the North American market. We also have Alfa coming back.... whenever that will be, with their Mito. There is also the MB A class, which I don't see coming, same with the Ford Ka? Are they calling that Fiesta again?
Still I find knowing they might come is one thing, actually coming is another. I just don't see it happening yet, usually they are just all talk.

Okay, maybe I just misread what you meant. I was talking about the Yaris but second gen. You are referring to the first gen. You are correct then sir, the first gen came out late nighties. And was car of the year in Europe and Japan in 2000 or there about. North America got the ECHO sedan was was sold as the Yaris sedan around the around or in some other parts and in the home market as the Platz. So yes North America got shafted on the first gen Yaris hatch. Except, Canada got the Yaris hatch but that was the last two model years. Obviously at the time it was sold as the ECHO hatch. Which was immensely popular in Canada. Toyota did what Honduh did. Bring over an existing car when its life-cycle is almost up. It cuts costs down but at the same time test the market if you will. its model run in Canada was two years then the second gen Yaris hatch came out in Canada. So for the second gen Vitz hatch it is now sold under the global name of Yaris. So the U.S. finally gets the Yaris hatch, first gen to us, second gen to the rest of the world. Hope that clears up some confusion, maybe just makes some more


On VW with the Polo. Cross your fingers. THere are reports of them exporting it but who knows. Nothing is confirmed. It seems VW is taking their dandy time or just unsure. Stupid I say. How can you look at the U.S. market right now and go "humm, should we bring over a competitive gas saving car or just make another cross over?" Its kind of a no brainer. None of their cars get good mileage compared to the others in their respective class, unless its a TDI model. But the gassers aren't that great, at least the North American ones. Alfa I heard was going to be 2010/2011, or so. That would be cool. The Ford Ka at this point I don't think its coming. But the Fiesta is coming, based on the Verve concept. We'll see if Ford unglyfies it with its American design language. The Ka is a smaller car I believe. The Fiat 500 is based off the same platform.

The Yaris was introduced in Canada as a 2006 model, replacing the Echo sedan and hatchback, and very soon after introduction of the new model (sold as the Vitz) in Japan. If it were to follow Toyota's traditional 5-year model cycle, it is due for a mid-cycle refreshment now, for the 2009 model year, and due for a full-model change for the 2011 model-year. Since it is imported into North America, the face-lift will come regardless of how long the current model has been on sale here.

Regarding the European models, they have to start building cars here or lose more market-share. It is just getting too expensive to continue exporting cars from Europe to the USA. The Euro's value is so much higher than the US Dollar, plus it is just more expensive to assemble cars in Europe, due to their higher wages. As the European Community and the Euro currency (and the higher standard of living) keeps spreading eastward, there may soon no longer be an inexpensive place to build cars in Europe, unlike North America, which still has Mexico and the US South. So, Fiat (and Alfa Romeo, which is Fiat-controlled) are looking to build or partner here.

There are rumours that Mercedes-Benz may introduce the next A-Class here. There is talk that the next A-Class (and B-Class, which is built on the same platform) may lose its unique "sandwich" floor (think raised floor of minivans) and FWD architecture, and go to a more conventional design with RWD. This is all because of the BMW 1-Series, which is now available in North America.

Volkswagen's decision whether or not to make the Polo (or similar vehicle) available in the USA is likely one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" arguments. VW does need something competitive with Toyota and Honda vehicles in North America, in terms of size, fuel economy and price. But, if the Polo is made available, it would have to sell at a competitive price also. We know that Americans are very price-sensitive, especially when it comes to small cars, and so a Polo exported from Europe would likely be a money-loser for VW; that would not be good for a company wanting to the top-selling automotive brand by late next decade. So the decision may have to be where to export from. Perhaps VW will export the Polo from India, which, it seems, will soon be building the Polo. (The Polo would compete with the Yaris and the Fit. VW is also talking about re-designing the Jetta in order to make it more competitive with the Civic and building it alongside the Passat-Plus Camry/Accord-figher in Chattanooga, Tennessee.)

That is Ford's problem also, making small cars available in North America. It was announced last month that Ford would re-tool truck plants and bring here the Fiesta (based upon the Verve concept, and sharing a platform with the new, but-not-available-here Mazda2) sub-compact in 2010; and the next generation Focus (and, it seems, other cars based on its compact-car platform) in 2010/2011. The Fiesta would be built in Mexico, and the Focus and its sister vehicles would be in the USA.

(As an off-topic aside... Ford made this re-tooling announcement last month, so I am expecting GM to announce something similar very soon, in their now-typical knee-jerk, reactionary way. What are GM's plans to re-tool soon-to-mothballed truck plants and convert them to build smaller vehicles, like the Cruze, the new Aveo, the Beat, etc.?)

GM recently announed that they were going to up Cobalt production by converting some of the lines at their truck plants to making cars.
Its too little, too late IMO though. They should have seen all this coming and been ready to switch over to making more fuel-efficient vehicles.
Did they honestly think that gas was going to be $2.50 a gallon forever?

GM recently announed that they were going to up Cobalt production by converting some of the lines at their truck plants to making cars.
Its too little, too late IMO though. They should have seen all this coming and been ready to switch over to making more fuel-efficient vehicles.
Did they honestly think that gas was going to be $2.50 a gallon forever?
With that logic, how do you explain Toyota's recent Tundra and Sequoia giant vehicle introductions? I agree that GM is very late in arriving to the party (maybe even too late) but it would appear that most if not all automakers have been caught with their pants down in the latest round of artificial oil price inflation.

Nobody saw it coming... If they had, there would not be a brand new many many many million dollar Tundra plant within 40 miles of my house.

None of the auto manufacturers in North America expected gas prices to rise so soon and so quickly, Toyota included. The difference between them all, however, was that Toyota, Honda and Nissan were and are better prepared for 2 main reasons:
The transplants (Toyota, Honda and Nissan) have a better product balance, with a lineup of modern cars in addition to trucks.
The transplants run flexible manufacturing plants that can be switched very easily and very quickly from assembling one vehicle to another, totally different vehicle. The transplants can easily switch an assembly line from producing trucks to producing cars. The Detroit 3, meanwhile, still rely on older-style assembly lines that require months of shutdown and expensive re-tooling before the lines can be switched over to assembling another vehicle. So, they lose income due to 2 factors during the re-tooling: the line is shut down, so is not producing anything; and re-tooling is very expensive.Ford may be late, but it seems to me that it realized that it had to do something, and so announced last month that it would re-tool its soon-to-be-mothballed truck and SUV plants so that they could produce transplanted European small cars.

To me, GM seems to be in denial. In May this year, despite high gas prices and plummeting truck sales, it still signed a contract with the Canadian Auto Workers union, promising to keep their Oshawa truck plant open, only to be awakened screaming 2 weeks later admitting that it had been caught with its pants down, and would have to close the truck plant next year, 2 or 3 years short of what they had agreed with the CAW. Every other re-structuring announcement it has made this year seems to be -- to my memory -- after Ford had made a similar announcement. It seems that GM management does not know what it is doing and does not know what it should do, so GM management just follows Ford. That is my perception, reality as it seems to me.

Like I said in my last post... I am not defending GM. There sure seem to be a lot of folks on this forum that are obsessed with what GM does. What's up with all of that?

The Yaris was introduced in Canada as a 2006 model, replacing the Echo sedan and hatchback, and very soon after introduction of the new model (sold as the Vitz) in Japan. If it were to follow Toyota's traditional 5-year model cycle, it is due for a mid-cycle refreshment now, for the 2009 model year, and due for a full-model change for the 2011 model-year. Since it is imported into North America, the face-lift will come regardless of how long the current model has been on sale here.

Regarding the European models, they have to start building cars here or lose more market-share. It is just getting too expensive to continue exporting cars from Europe to the USA. The Euro's value is so much higher than the US Dollar, plus it is just more expensive to assemble cars in Europe, due to their higher wages. As the European Community and the Euro currency (and the higher standard of living) keeps spreading eastward, there may soon no longer be an inexpensive place to build cars in Europe, unlike North America, which still has Mexico and the US South. So, Fiat (and Alfa Romeo, which is Fiat-controlled) are looking to build or partner here.

There are rumours that Mercedes-Benz may introduce the next A-Class here. There is talk that the next A-Class (and B-Class, which is built on the same platform) may lose its unique "sandwich" floor (think raised floor of minivans) and FWD architecture, and go to a more conventional design with RWD. This is all because of the BMW 1-Series, which is now available in North America.

Volkswagen's decision whether or not to make the Polo (or similar vehicle) available in the USA is likely one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" arguments. VW does need something competitive with Toyota and Honda vehicles in North America, in terms of size, fuel economy and price. But, if the Polo is made available, it would have to sell at a competitive price also. We know that Americans are very price-sensitive, especially when it comes to small cars, and so a Polo exported from Europe would likely be a money-loser for VW; that would not be good for a company wanting to the top-selling automotive brand by late next decade. So the decision may have to be where to export from. Perhaps VW will export the Polo from India, which, it seems, will soon be building the Polo. (The Polo would compete with the Yaris and the Fit. VW is also talking about re-designing the Jetta in order to make it more competitive with the Civic and building it alongside the Passat-Plus Camry/Accord-figher in Chattanooga, Tennessee.)

That is Ford's problem also, making small cars available in North America. It was announced last month that Ford would re-tool truck plants and bring here the Fiesta (based upon the Verve concept, and sharing a platform with the new, but-not-available-here Mazda2) sub-compact in 2010; and the next generation Focus (and, it seems, other cars based on its compact-car platform) in 2010/2011. The Fiesta would be built in Mexico, and the Focus and its sister vehicles would be in the USA.

(As an off-topic aside... Ford made this re-tooling announcement last month, so I am expecting GM to announce something similar very soon, in their now-typical knee-jerk, reactionary way. What are GM's plans to re-tool soon-to-mothballed truck plants and convert them to build smaller vehicles, like the Cruze, the new Aveo, the Beat, etc.?)

I don't know why VW is so worried about bringing the Polo over. If you ask me, They are doing quite well with their "costing more than average" formula, especially the GTI. The streets are full of those cars, I see more GTIs than the standard issue Rabbit. Maybe that's a problem right there because the Rabbit is the one that's making money. Maybe they can just bring the Polo GTI over, that car is quite a fun little twerp.

Well we have the B class in Canada, and tons of those on the street too. It just doesn't seem to fit in anything, its smaller than a Corolla, but bigger than a Yaris/Fit. I don't like it personally, it looks funky, and drives funky. The MB style interior doesn't seem to really work in a small car. A more streamlined B class like the 1 series would work quite well and go from a soccer mom car MB to a younger audience.

Rather than retooling the factory, since they have to rework it anyways, why not update it to something similar to what Toyota, Honda and Nissan is doing. They are heavily in need of updating and revamping anyways.

Like I said in my last post... I am not defending GM. There sure seem to be a lot of folks on this forum that are obsessed with what GM does. What's up with all of that?

It just seems that way. There are people like for example, Sulu, or me who talk about every manufacturer, and respond to other's posts.
+1 GM posts and +1 to everything else

Then there are the GM fanboys who attack Toyota and defend GM.
+1 GM

Then there are the Toyota fanboys who attack GM and defend Toyota.
+1 GM

Then comes the arguments on the GM topics.
+27834569237809602398475 GM

Hence the false scene of an obsession with GM.


Its a little better now, Vmax is quite civilized and thinks before he posts. fanfan is not too bad either imo. They would both joke and poke fun in between arguments and admit to facts and let off when it gets too heated. There was one other individual who wasn't as self conscious and it was much worse and flamed up both the above mentioned members.

With that logic, how do you explain Toyota's recent Tundra and Sequoia giant vehicle introductions? I agree that GM is very late in arriving to the party (maybe even too late) but it would appear that most if not all automakers have been caught with their pants down in the latest round of artificial oil price inflation.

Nobody saw it coming... If they had, there would not be a brand new many many many million dollar Tundra plant within 40 miles of my house.
Vehicle like the Tundra and Sequoia have their place because there will always be people who need the towing capability.
No matter what the price of gas is, someone who has a big boat isnt going to buy a small car.
You obviously missed my point. Unlike GM, Ford and Chrylser, Toyota didnt ignore small cars. They brought out the Prius a number of years ago and have brought out hybrid versions of the Highlander and Camry.
Meanwhile, Ford, GM and Chrysler stayed focused on trucks, big SUVs and cars with V8s in them. Its kind of funny that GM said hybrids would never catch on, yet now they are constantly bragging about their hybrids. Open mouth, insert foot?
Those vehicles too have their place in the market, but when you focus the bulk of your sales on gas guzzlers, thats a pretty narrow-minded business strategy.
Lets try to stay on-topic though, eh? No need to let yet another thread get ruined by a GM vs Toyota pissing match. :thumbsup:

First of all. I like it here. I am not a GM troll, and I own a Toyota product...

Whether this board likes to believe it or not... the majority of Americans (myself included) that can afford to drive what they want are not all that interested in tiny 1,5 liter cars. (not yet anyway) Yaris and other cars like it are not the big popular sellers in this part of the country. We live where there is plenty of wide open space and we like our Suburbans, Pickups, and boats here. We don't offer up any excuses. We don't believe that the sky is falling.

I'm sure it was no accident that Toyota built their Tundra plant here. Fact is, GM makes money selling big trucks and SUVs So does everybody else. Toyota didn't come up with the Tundra because they thought there wasn't a market for it. Large SUV sales slumped when gas went to 4 bucks... but they are already picking back up with just a 30 cent drop in gas prices.

This board seems to think that it is the only reality... that the opinions here are all shared by the majority of US citizens... I'm here to tell you it isn't necessarily true.

EDIT: SOME of this board thinks this way. I do not mean to lump everybody together. God only knows GM has made stupid blunders... Once again, I am not the big GM defender.

Whether this board likes to believe it or not... the majority of Americans (myself included) that can afford to drive what they want are not all that interested in tiny 1,5 liter cars. (not yet anyway) Yaris and other cars like it are not the big popular sellers in this part of the country. We live where there is plenty of wide open space and we like our Suburbans, Pickups, and boats here. We don't offer up any excuses. We don't believe that the sky is falling.
This board seems to think that it is the only reality... that the opinions here are all shared by the majority of US citizens... I'm here to tell you it isn't necessarily true.
Perhaps the opinions of people where you live dont represent the opinions of the majority of U.S. citizens. The Yaris is one of Toyota's best-selling models right now, so obviously there is a demand for it.

Perhaps the opinions of people where you live dont represent the opinions of the majority of U.S. citizens. The Yaris is one of Toyota's best-selling models right now, so obviously there is a demand for it.
Well maybe they should! :D

J/K, I think it a tad presumptuous to believe the average American wants a Yaris but I do believe you are correct. Where you are makes a large difference in what is popular.

I also believe that once the market has a variety of small Yaris-like cars to choose from. Americans will become more accustomed to them. I'm sure they are really big now in urban areas.

I'd bet a seriously sporty version wirh good suspension and brakes would go over big time. Even if the power train was left alone for MGP sake... It would be a fun about town sled.

^ "...seriously sporty version wirh good suspension and brakes..."?

Polo GTI (turbo 150hp), Yaris TS (1.8l 130hp) with all the respective tweaks. All not available in North America.

iiTSz NOT THE BEST DESiiGN YET[...] iiTS BETTER THAN WHAT WE HAD BEFORE[...]

I don't know why VW is so worried about bringing the Polo over. If you ask me, They are doing quite well with their "costing more than average" formula, especially the GTI. The streets are full of those cars, I see more GTIs than the standard issue Rabbit. Maybe that's a problem right there because the Rabbit is the one that's making money. Maybe they can just bring the Polo GTI over, that car is quite a fun little twerp.

VW has as its goal to match Toyota in productivity and profits by 2018, and also talk that it wants to be #1 in terms of the number of cars produced by that time. It realizes that there are a number of markets in which it can improve its performance to help it meet that goal. VW was one of the first into China, and it is fighting to keep its lead there. It is now establishing assembly plants in India, another fast-developing region. One region in which VW really needs to improve is North America. If you look at the sales figures, I seem to remember that Toyota sells more Prius cars in North America than all VW's cars combined, so if the Prius is a niche vehicle, VW is definitely a niche brand.

To increase sales in North America, VW needs to increase the number of market segments in which it offers vehicles for sale and increase the number of vehicles its sells in each segment. They are now missing out on the growing sub-compact segment (represented by the Yaris and the Fit, and very important in Canada). The cars that they currently sell in North America do not sell that well, for a number of reasons:
The Rabbit, Jetta and Passat are too expensive to be competitive in the compact and mid-size segments.
The Passat is too small to be competitive as a mid-size, Camry/Accord-type of car.
The vehicles do not have (gasoline) engines that are both powerful enough and fuel efficient enough to be competitive with Toyota and Honda. Diesel engines are non-sellers in the USA right now. To match the power available in the Corolla and Civic, VW had to put a 5-cylinder engine in its Rabbit and Jetta, but the fuel economy is worse.VW realizes this, and so are working on the following:
The next-generation Golf (Rabbit) has already been shown in Europe and will be introduced for sale soon, a number of years ahead of its normal schedule. The current-generation Golf/Rabbit was known to be a very expensive car to produce. Processes are being streamlined and the number of different components is probably being reduced in an effort to reduce the cost of production of this new Golf/Rabbit.
VW has selected a site in Chattanooga, Tennessee in which to build a new American assembly plant. It will produce a new Passat-Plus vehicle there, larger than the current Passat, and much better able to compete with the Camry and the Accord; this vehicle will be designed for North American tastes. There is also talk that they may produce there a newly re-designed Jetta, better able to compete with the Civic. If they really want to be competitive with Toyota, it will have to sell close to a half-million Passat-Plus vehicles a year; that is how many Camrys Toyota produces at its Georgetown, Kentucky and Subaru's Indiana plants.
There are the rumours that VW may sell the Polo or similarly-sized vehicle here.These have to be daily-driver/appliance-type vehicles with powerful-enough and at the same time, economical-enough engines. The GTI vehicles are no more than niche (halo) vehicles and will never sell enough, nor make VW enough money.


Well we have the B class in Canada, and tons of those on the street too. It just doesn't seem to fit in anything, its smaller than a Corolla, but bigger than a Yaris/Fit. I don't like it personally, it looks funky, and drives funky. The MB style interior doesn't seem to really work in a small car. A more streamlined B class like the 1 series would work quite well and go from a soccer mom car MB to a younger audience.

The MB B-Class may be smaller than the Corolla on the outside, but because of its raised-floor architecture, it is very roomy inside, larger than the Corolla and its own C-Class. Its problem is likely not its technical design and engineering (it is a MB after all, and they all tend to be over-engineered), but its styling. Americans are very conservative and not very accepting of different styles. Label it as a crossover. The other problem it has is because BMW has introduced the RWD 1-Series to North America. The FWD B-Class is just not seen as a true competitor to the 1-Series. It was fine before the 1-Series came, but now that it has, the new BMW will probably take sales away from it.

What do you (and other North Americans) have against Soccer Moms? They are very influential when it comes to buying the family car, and face it, it is the family car that sells a half-million vehicles a year, and is the type of car that makes the automakers a lot of money. Selling these cars is what allows the automakers to sell niche vehicles like the VW GTI.

Rather than retooling the factory, since they have to rework it anyways, why not update it to something similar to what Toyota, Honda and Nissan is doing. They are heavily in need of updating and revamping anyways.

I do not know what Ford is doing in its old truck plants. Re-tooling could refer to transforming an old F-150 plant to produce only Fiestas, or it may mean that Ford will make them flexible manufacturing plants. It may depend on how much Ford can afford to invest in re-tooling. If merely re-tooling to produce a specific vehicle is cheaper than producing a flexible manufacturing plant, that may be what Ford is doing. It is more important at this point that Ford starts to produce modern small cars and get them on the market, than how they are produced.

Ford does now have a flexible manufacturing plant in Oakville, Ontario, where it produces the Mazda6-based Edge and MKX and where it also produces the Taurus/Volvo-based Flex, 2 different types of vehicles on 2 different platforms. Before flexible manufacturing, this was not possible on the same assembly line.

Whether this board likes to believe it or not... the majority of Americans (myself included) that can afford to drive what they want are not all that interested in tiny 1,5 liter cars. (not yet anyway) Yaris and other cars like it are not the big popular sellers in this part of the country. We live where there is plenty of wide open space and we like our Suburbans, Pickups, and boats here. We don't offer up any excuses. We don't believe that the sky is falling.

I'm sure it was no accident that Toyota built their Tundra plant here. Fact is, GM makes money selling big trucks and SUVs So does everybody else. Toyota didn't come up with the Tundra because they thought there wasn't a market for it. Large SUV sales slumped when gas went to 4 bucks... but they are already picking back up with just a 30 cent drop in gas prices.

This board seems to think that it is the only reality... that the opinions here are all shared by the majority of US citizens... I'm here to tell you it isn't necessarily true.

EDIT: SOME of this board thinks this way. I do not mean to lump everybody together. God only knows GM has made stupid blunders... Once again, I am not the big GM defender.


well dude you and me live in texas
is it really a big surprise that people here in texas love their big trucks and suvs

i mean only in texas are you going to see lifted rav4s and honda crvs as well as lifted nissan titans XD and chevy avalanches, you know cars most people dont really lift up high XD
IN TRAFFIC

its priceless here in houston knee deep in trafic on 610 and you got lifted cross overs its priceless :clap:

only here in texas would you see those big trucks lifted and in traffic

people here dont worry to much about gas because we make lots of oil right here in texas ourselfs
so we got a pretty low fuel cost compared to other parts of the USA
working in the industry texas is pretty much booming in business when it comes to oil
your either a roughneck and shiphand, a driller, welder, engeneere
or a nerdy kid maintaining company database XD
we got it lucky here in texas =P

be glad you can ride around in a big truck and not worry about it
other parts of US arent as lucky

this is also good thing for texas
the tunners XD who have gas guzzling cars dont have to worry as much as other states either :naughty:

so yeah =D
we lucky to be in the lone star
ENJOY IT

^ "...seriously sporty version wirh good suspension and brakes..."?

Polo GTI (turbo 150hp), Yaris TS (1.8l 130hp) with all the respective tweaks. All not available in North America.
That's too bad. I really think the market here would eat those cars up. I would love to have one. You KNOW a lot of the folks in here would. I wonder if the "lawsuit happy" nature of some of our citizens has anything to do with that?

Well maybe they should! :D

J/K, I think it a tad presumptuous to believe the average American wants a Yaris but I do believe you are correct. Where you are makes a large difference in what is popular.

I also believe that once the market has a variety of small Yaris-like cars to choose from. Americans will become more accustomed to them. I'm sure they are really big now in urban areas.

Id say more average Americans want cars like the Yaris than vehicles like the Tahoe/Yukon and Expedition. $4 a gallon gas has pretty much killed off demand for big vehicles.
Like it or not, smaller vehicles are whats in all of our futures. The days of the big trucks and SUVs dominating the roads are over.
As much as Americans love big vehicles, I price of fuel is going to force them to downsize. You can only cut so many things out of your budget before you decide that driving your big ole gas guzzler isnt worth it.
Take me for example. I like my F-150 for the most part, but I cant hardly afford to drive it anymore. I drive about 300 miles a week and it costs me about $80 in gas. My parents live in NE Wisconsin (I live in southcentral Wisconsin, BTW) and I used to make at least 10 trips up there every year. Now, with gas prices being what they are, I can only afford to make 3 or 4 trips up there a year. I just cant afford to be spending $150 all the time just to drive up there and back.
My plan is to keep my truck around as my beater/firewood hauler/snowmobile hauler/winter vehicle and buy a Yaris or Corolla as my daily driver. I can drop the insurance on my truck down to just liability, so it wont cost me much to keep it around and I will cut my fuel bill in half by switching to a Yaris/Corolla. What I save in gas will just about pay for the car payment and once the car is paid off I will be about $160 ahead every month.
To me, it makes perfect sense. Have an old beater truck for when I need to haul stuff and have a small car as my daily driver.
Obviously a lot of people are thinking the same thing, because theres a lot of trucks and SUVs for sale around here and they are going for dirt cheap.

VW has as its goal to match Toyota in productivity and profits by 2018, and also talk that it wants to be #1 in terms of the number of cars produced by that time. It realizes that there are a number of markets in which it can improve its performance to help it meet that goal. VW was one of the first into China, and it is fighting to keep its lead there. It is now establishing assembly plants in India, another fast-developing region. One region in which VW really needs to improve is North America. If you look at the sales figures, I seem to remember that Toyota sells more Prius cars in North America than all VW's cars combined, so if the Prius is a niche vehicle, VW is definitely a niche brand.

To increase sales in North America, VW needs to increase the number of market segments in which it offers vehicles for sale and increase the number of vehicles its sells in each segment. They are now missing out on the growing sub-compact segment (represented by the Yaris and the Fit, and very important in Canada). The cars that they currently sell in North America do not sell that well, for a number of reasons:
The Rabbit, Jetta and Passat are too expensive to be competitive in the compact and mid-size segments.
The Passat is too small to be competitive as a mid-size, Camry/Accord-type of car.
The vehicles do not have (gasoline) engines that are both powerful enough and fuel efficient enough to be competitive with Toyota and Honda. Diesel engines are non-sellers in the USA right now. To match the power available in the Corolla and Civic, VW had to put a 5-cylinder engine in its Rabbit and Jetta, but the fuel economy is worse.VW realizes this, and so are working on the following:
The next-generation Golf (Rabbit) has already been shown in Europe and will be introduced for sale soon, a number of years ahead of its normal schedule. The current-generation Golf/Rabbit was known to be a very expensive car to produce. Processes are being streamlined and the number of different components is probably being reduced in an effort to reduce the cost of production of this new Golf/Rabbit.
VW has selected a site in Chattanooga, Tennessee in which to build a new American assembly plant. It will produce a new Passat-Plus vehicle there, larger than the current Passat, and much better able to compete with the Camry and the Accord; this vehicle will be designed for North American tastes. There is also talk that they may produce there a newly re-designed Jetta, better able to compete with the Civic. If they really want to be competitive with Toyota, it will have to sell close to a half-million Passat-Plus vehicles a year; that is how many Camrys Toyota produces at its Georgetown, Kentucky and Subaru's Indiana plants.
There are the rumours that VW may sell the Polo or similarly-sized vehicle here.These have to be daily-driver/appliance-type vehicles with powerful-enough and at the same time, economical-enough engines. The GTI vehicles are no more than niche (halo) vehicles and will never sell enough, nor make VW enough money.

While its total speculation, I really don't see VW being capable of approaching Toyota by 2018. Its only a mere 9 years away to be growing into something double of what it is right now. Just building a plant would take around 2 years.

There are some conflicting news in the VW world which makes me doubt their ability in meeting the claim of closing the gap to Toyota. While the Gen 6 Golf/Rabbit designs has been leaked and is going to be showcased soon, there is news of it NOT making it to North America. I find that rather counter-productive unless they are designing a second version just for us which I find lame. Look at Mitsubishi, hasn't worked so well has it?

I don't think they need an exclusive model, look at MB and BMW, they stick to their Euro formulas, it has worked. Its more along the line of being more appealing without changing their sizes.


The MB B-Class may be smaller than the Corolla on the outside, but because of its raised-floor architecture, it is very roomy inside, larger than the Corolla and its own C-Class. Its problem is likely not its technical design and engineering (it is a MB after all, and they all tend to be over-engineered), but its styling. Americans are very conservative and not very accepting of different styles. Label it as a crossover. The other problem it has is because BMW has introduced the RWD 1-Series to North America. The FWD B-Class is just not seen as a true competitor to the 1-Series. It was fine before the 1-Series came, but now that it has, the new BMW will probably take sales away from it.

What do you (and other North Americans) have against Soccer Moms? They are very influential when it comes to buying the family car, and face it, it is the family car that sells a half-million vehicles a year, and is the type of car that makes the automakers a lot of money. Selling these cars is what allows the automakers to sell niche vehicles like the VW GTI.

People don't buy Euro cars just because of the brand, they buy it for how it looks too. My mom drives a C class and the B was on her shopping list. She didn't settle on it because it drives funny and she didn't like it. She said if she was going to buy the B class, might as well go buy something else. The 1 series is selling well as a dwarf BMW, though its not really much smaller than the 3 series in terms of weight, price, and engines.

Nothing really. I know moms have a huge influence in what cars are bought, evident in me currently driving a HL due to my mom and my friend driving a RDX due to her mom. But driving a soccer mom mobile instantly labels you as one, and other people on the road think you do not know how to drive.


I do not know what Ford is doing in its old truck plants. Re-tooling could refer to transforming an old F-150 plant to produce only Fiestas, or it may mean that Ford will make them flexible manufacturing plants. It may depend on how much Ford can afford to invest in re-tooling. If merely re-tooling to produce a specific vehicle is cheaper than producing a flexible manufacturing plant, that may be what Ford is doing. It is more important at this point that Ford starts to produce modern small cars and get them on the market, than how they are produced.

Ford does now have a flexible manufacturing plant in Oakville, Ontario, where it produces the Mazda6-based Edge and MKX and where it also produces the Taurus/Volvo-based Flex, 2 different types of vehicles on 2 different platforms. Before flexible manufacturing, this was not possible on the same assembly line.

Its good to know that they do have a flexible factory. Seems like Ford is better off than GM is. Though their designs really are crappy.... Focus... :wtf:

Whats wrong with the Focus? Its a very nice car. Im not crazy about all the chrome on the grille, but its a solid car.

To increase sales in North America, VW needs to increase the number of market segments in which it offers vehicles for sale and increase the number of vehicles its sells in each segment. They are now missing out on the growing sub-compact segment (represented by the Yaris and the Fit, and very important in Canada). The cars that they currently sell in North America do not sell that well, for a number of reasons:
The Rabbit, Jetta and Passat are too expensive to be competitive in the compact and mid-size segments.
The Passat is too small to be competitive as a mid-size, Camry/Accord-type of car.
The vehicles do not have (gasoline) engines that are both powerful enough and fuel efficient enough to be competitive with Toyota and Honda. Diesel engines are non-sellers in the USA right now. To match the power available in the Corolla and Civic, VW had to put a 5-cylinder engine in its Rabbit and Jetta, but the fuel economy is worse.
True but they are the cheapest European brand and they can bank of that. The Rabbits starts near $20k and that's very reasonable for a European car and it's not that bare in terms of standard equipment. Of course there's the "City" models if you want push it down to the $15k mark. Could you say that the Jetta competes with the CSX given the similar price range that they cover? In addition, the Jetta is available as a diesel which is basically on its own in this segment so that in itself can bring in customers. On top of that, there's also the wagon version. Granted, there are other cheaper models such as the Caliber and Journey but again the two things going for it - European car and diesel.

I'm not sure what they're going to do with the Passat (other than the Passat CC). The V6 model is definitely priced out of the Camry, Accord, 6 and Altima but it is in line with the Subaru Legacy.

I agree with the fuel efficiency bit. My friend bought a Jetta 2.5 over a Civic Hybrid because the VW dealer gave them a better trade-in value for their vehicle. Now he's complaining that it uses a lotta fuel (and he's coming from an old Cherokee!). The 2.5 isn't the smoothest engine in the world either, even compared to the 4 cylinder compact cars from Japan. The 2.0T model would be a lot better.


VW realizes this, and so are working on the following:
The next-generation Golf (Rabbit) has already been shown in Europe and will be introduced for sale soon, a number of years ahead of its normal schedule. The current-generation Golf/Rabbit was known to be a very expensive car to produce. Processes are being streamlined and the number of different components is probably being reduced in an effort to reduce the cost of production of this new Golf/Rabbit.
VW has selected a site in Chattanooga, Tennessee in which to build a new American assembly plant. It will produce a new Passat-Plus vehicle there, larger than the current Passat, and much better able to compete with the Camry and the Accord; this vehicle will be designed for North American tastes. There is also talk that they may produce there a newly re-designed Jetta, better able to compete with the Civic. If they really want to be competitive with Toyota, it will have to sell close to a half-million Passat-Plus vehicles a year; that is how many Camrys Toyota produces at its Georgetown, Kentucky and Subaru's Indiana plants.
There are the rumours that VW may sell the Polo or similarly-sized vehicle here.These have to be daily-driver/appliance-type vehicles with powerful-enough and at the same time, economical-enough engines. The GTI vehicles are no more than niche (halo) vehicles and will never sell enough, nor make VW enough money.

So do you think the Polo would arrive before the Scirroco? I mean there are a decent number of "City" models around. I don't think a Polo starting at $15k would be that bad. It can still boast "a European vehicle for a price you can afford" mantra rather than have people drive in 10 year models disguised as new ones.


The MB B-Class may be smaller than the Corolla on the outside, but because of its raised-floor architecture, it is very roomy inside, larger than the Corolla and its own C-Class. Its problem is likely not its technical design and engineering (it is a MB after all, and they all tend to be over-engineered), but its styling. Americans are very conservative and not very accepting of different styles. Label it as a crossover. The other problem it has is because BMW has introduced the RWD 1-Series to North America. The FWD B-Class is just not seen as a true competitor to the 1-Series. It was fine before the 1-Series came, but now that it has, the new BMW will probably take sales away from it.

Aside from the one that "crashed" on me during the RMB event several years ago (the computers shut the car down in the middle of the auto-cross), I found the B-Class to be quite impressive, despite its entry level price (and esp. since MB has padded the standard equipment list every year, offering more value). The CVT is odd (even though I have a Prius) but otherwise the interior fit and finish was impressive and it's quite well-insulated. For a family who owns Mercedes vehicles, it could be a good complement to their E or S-Class vehicle; one that they can use for grocery-getting, assuming they haven't bought an M-Class already.


Ford does now have a flexible manufacturing plant in Oakville, Ontario, where it produces the Mazda6-based Edge and MKX and where it also produces the Taurus/Volvo-based Flex, 2 different types of vehicles on 2 different platforms. Before flexible manufacturing, this was not possible on the same assembly line.
Oh they have tons of Flex models. I see them shipped and driven down the road every day. They have cut production on the Flex already. It's a great vehicle and <gasp> it looks good too imo but I think it came a bit too late. I would say the Flex is a perfect platform for Ford's hybrid system.

Oh they have tons of Flex models. I see them shipped and driven down the road every day. They have cut production on the Flex already. It's a great vehicle and <gasp> it looks good too imo but I think it came a bit too late. I would say the Flex is a perfect platform for Ford's hybrid system.
I think the biggest problem is the price. Those things go for about $35,000!!! :eek:

all you can see is manufacturer's failure on chassis sharing

While its total speculation, I really don't see VW being capable of approaching Toyota by 2018. Its only a mere 9 years away to be growing into something double of what it is right now. Just building a plant would take around 2 years.

It really does not matter whether or not VW will meet this goal. This is more of a vision, something used to rally the troops. Toyota also has a vision: that they will design a car that can drive across North America on a single tank of fuel. It is something all employees can identify with and get them all working together. In fact, I believe that a vision should NOT be easily attainable, otherwise the employees fall into the trap of "OK, we met that vision, now what??".

There are some conflicting news in the VW world which makes me doubt their ability in meeting the claim of closing the gap to Toyota. While the Gen 6 Golf/Rabbit designs has been leaked and is going to be showcased soon, there is news of it NOT making it to North America. I find that rather counter-productive unless they are designing a second version just for us which I find lame. Look at Mitsubishi, hasn't worked so well has it?

I think that it will make it to North America, just much later. The current Rabbit did not arrive here until 2006, although it was introduced in Europe in late 2003. But, then again, the Jetta outsells the Rabbit, so VW may think that is no longer worth it to import the Golf/Rabbit, instead investing it all in the Jetta.

I don't think they need an exclusive model, look at MB and BMW, they stick to their Euro formulas, it has worked. Its more along the line of being more appealing without changing their sizes.

You cannot compare VW with MB and BMW. VW is a mass-market brand, whereas MB and BMW are luxury brands. VW tried moving up-market a few years ago by introducing the Phaeton and W12 Passat. They were flops because nobody saw VW as a luxury brand.

MB's and BMW's mid-size offerings are also larger than the Passat, so if you are talking about European mid-size offerings, there is no comparison. The Passat is a true European-sized mid-size, which is too small for the fat Americans.

Therein lies VW's problem: it is seen as a mass-market brand in America, yet it really cannot compete with the established mass-market brands in America, like Toyota and Honda. The Passat is too small and too expensive to compete against the Camry and Accord. That is why VW is talking about producing a larger-than-Passat yet cheaper-than-Passat mid-size car in Tennessee. What I find interesting is that VW would continue to import the Passat, and it would be positioned up-market from the North American-produced Passat-Plus (more expensive and more luxurious, just like the European Honda Accord sold here is more expensive than the North American Honda Accord, but the Passat-Plus and more-expensive-but-smaller Passat would sit side-by-side in the same showroom).

People don't buy Euro cars just because of the brand, they buy it for how it looks too. My mom drives a C class and the B was on her shopping list. She didn't settle on it because it drives funny and she didn't like it. She said if she was going to buy the B class, might as well go buy something else. The 1 series is selling well as a dwarf BMW, though its not really much smaller than the 3 series in terms of weight, price, and engines.

True but they are the cheapest European brand and they can bank of that. The Rabbits starts near $20k and that's very reasonable for a European car and it's not that bare in terms of standard equipment. Of course there's the "City" models if you want push it down to the $15k mark. Could you say that the Jetta competes with the CSX given the similar price range that they cover? In addition, the Jetta is available as a diesel which is basically on its own in this segment so that in itself can bring in customers. On top of that, there's also the wagon version. Granted, there are other cheaper models such as the Caliber and Journey but again the two things going for it - European car and diesel.

Seems to me like you are talking about the European luxury brands again. There are those who do buy VWs because they are European, but it seems, not enough people are buying VWs in America, therefore the steps that have been announced to increase sales here.

The Jetta diesel may sell here in Canada, but diesel models do not sell down south. The Canadian market is different from the American market, but to some automakers, it does not matter, because they see the Canadian market as too small to differentiate it from the Americans. The American market is still the world's largest market (until China and India develop more and grow larger), and with the European market stagnant, European automakers have to start expanding here.

Its good to know that they do have a flexible factory. Seems like Ford is better off than GM is. Though their designs really are crappy.... Focus...

Ford should have brought the Gen2 Euro Focus here. But we can be happy knowing that Ford will be bringing the Gen3 Focus here. Let's just hope that the quality of the early Gen3 North American Focus does not match the (terrible) quality of the early Gen1 North American Focus.

(I was going to say something about how I have preferred Ford to GM (Ford rental cars such as the Contour and Taurus seemed so much better than Cavaliers and Grand Ams)... and how Ford seems to have plans to turn itself around, but GM still does not sure what it wants to do... But that would be GM bashing and too far off topic.)

So do you think the Polo would arrive before the Scirroco? I mean there are a decent number of "City" models around. I don't think a Polo starting at $15k would be that bad. It can still boast "a European vehicle for a price you can afford" mantra rather than have people drive in 10 year models disguised as new ones.
.



Scirroco is not coming to North America from my understanding. Its Europe only for now. Maybe they don't want it to get in the way of the EOS. I don't know. I know its a different car...there was an article awhile back saying that VW wanted or needed to "Americanize" its North American line up. Meaning not to equip it to the gills which would lead to reliability problems also the fact VWs are premiums above most cars in their respective classes.



I think that it will make it to North America, just much later. The current Rabbit did not arrive here until 2006, although it was introduced in Europe in late 2003. But, then again, the Jetta outsells the Rabbit, so VW may think that is no longer worth it to import the Golf/Rabbit, instead investing it all in the Jetta.


I think at first the press said the next gen Golf isn't coming to the U.S. but VW America says otherwise.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/17/vw-of-america-golf-vi-i-is-i-heading-to-the-u-s/

It really does not matter whether or not VW will meet this goal. This is more of a vision, something used to rally the troops. Toyota also has a vision: that they will design a car that can drive across North America on a single tank of fuel. It is something all employees can identify with and get them all working together. In fact, I believe that a vision should NOT be easily attainable, otherwise the employees fall into the trap of "OK, we met that vision, now what??".



I think that it will make it to North America, just much later. The current Rabbit did not arrive here until 2006, although it was introduced in Europe in late 2003. But, then again, the Jetta outsells the Rabbit, so VW may think that is no longer worth it to import the Golf/Rabbit, instead investing it all in the Jetta.



You cannot compare VW with MB and BMW. VW is a mass-market brand, whereas MB and BMW are luxury brands. VW tried moving up-market a few years ago by introducing the Phaeton and W12 Passat. They were flops because nobody saw VW as a luxury brand.

MB's and BMW's mid-size offerings are also larger than the Passat, so if you are talking about European mid-size offerings, there is no comparison. The Passat is a true European-sized mid-size, which is too small for the fat Americans.

Therein lies VW's problem: it is seen as a mass-market brand in America, yet it really cannot compete with the established mass-market brands in America, like Toyota and Honda. The Passat is too small and too expensive to compete against the Camry and Accord. That is why VW is talking about producing a larger-than-Passat yet cheaper-than-Passat mid-size car in Tennessee. What I find interesting is that VW would continue to import the Passat, and it would be positioned up-market from the North American-produced Passat-Plus (more expensive and more luxurious, just like the European Honda Accord sold here is more expensive than the North American Honda Accord, but the Passat-Plus and more-expensive-but-smaller Passat would sit side-by-side in the same showroom).





Seems to me like you are talking about the European luxury brands again. There are those who do buy VWs because they are European, but it seems, not enough people are buying VWs in America, therefore the steps that have been announced to increase sales here.

The Jetta diesel may sell here in Canada, but diesel models do not sell down south. The Canadian market is different from the American market, but to some automakers, it does not matter, because they see the Canadian market as too small to differentiate it from the Americans. The American market is still the world's largest market (until China and India develop more and grow larger), and with the European market stagnant, European automakers have to start expanding here.



Ford should have brought the Gen2 Euro Focus here. But we can be happy knowing that Ford will be bringing the Gen3 Focus here. Let's just hope that the quality of the early Gen3 North American Focus does not match the (terrible) quality of the early Gen1 North American Focus.

(I was going to say something about how I have preferred Ford to GM (Ford rental cars such as the Contour and Taurus seemed so much better than Cavaliers and Grand Ams)... and how Ford seems to have plans to turn itself around, but GM still does not sure what it wants to do... But that would be GM bashing and too far off topic.)

I guess there lies in one of the problems with VW then lol, people like me who compare it to MB and BMW. While it is in the mass market class of cars, many people simply do not see it that way and put it in the same league as MB, BMW, and Audi. While yes there is some figment of knowledge that VW is not in that class, people invariably compare Euro brands with Euro brands.
To be quite honest with you, a lot of people view VW that way.

If the Passat-plus is going to be bigger and cheaper, they might as well just remove the Passat from their vehicle line here. Yeah some people will whine about it, but the plus will make most of the sales, not the original one.

And lets just forget about Ford and GM for now... too many things to discuss in one topic lol.

Seems to me like you are talking about the European luxury brands again. There are those who do buy VWs because they are European, but it seems, not enough people are buying VWs in America, therefore the steps that have been announced to increase sales here.

The Jetta diesel may sell here in Canada, but diesel models do not sell down south. The Canadian market is different from the American market, but to some automakers, it does not matter, because they see the Canadian market as too small to differentiate it from the Americans. The American market is still the world's largest market (until China and India develop more and grow larger), and with the European market stagnant, European automakers have to start expanding here.

Maybe Americans think that European cars are too expensive or that they can't afford them (esp. after the deep discounts that GM and Chrysler and Ford are giving). They're used to discounts. They complain when they pay MSRP.

Well that's the thing. Our market is ridiculously small compared to the US market yet we are markedly different from them and the manufacturers are starting to see that as we get more and more Canadian-only cars. However, that is costly to the manufacturer esp. given the small volume. Also, diesel prices have to come down a bit in the US. I think they're going for the same as 91 or even higher?? Up here, I've seen them go for the price of 89 only so not that big of a dent in the wallet. In some places (e.g. Revelstoke), they're the same as 87!)

However, I do think the American mindset is changing. The number of diesels destined for the U.S. market is increasing. Ok, except for the Jetta, they are more expensive models but they are targeting the heart of the U.S. love for the automobile - the SUV. The Grand Cherokee CDI and the ML320 CDI are two examples.