Bakemono 08-14-2008, 05:07 PM http://pressroom.toyota.com/Releases/View?id=TYT2008081403106
Torrance, CA - Toyota Motor Sales (TMS), U.S.A., Inc., announced today that the 2009 Highlander mid-size sport utility vehicle (SUV) will offer an all-new, powerful yet fuel-efficient 2.7-liter four-cylinder engine. When it arrives at dealerships in mid-to-late January, the new Highlander powerplant will be among the best mid-size SUVs in the areas of performance, fuel economy and value.
The new 2.7-liter four-cylinder engine will generate an impressive 187 horsepower at 5,800 RPM and 186 lb.-ft. of torque at 4,100 RPM on regular 87 octane fuel. A dual exhaust manifold will help achieve exceptional low-end torque and maximize its power output. In addition to its performance output, the Highlander equipped with the new four-cylinder will be EPA-rated as an Ultra Low Emission Vehicle (ULEVII) and is expected to be among the leaders in fuel efficiency in the gas mid-size SUV segment. Official EPA fuel efficiency ratings will be announced closer to launch.
The new four-cylinder engine will be mated to an all-new six-speed electronically-controlled automatic overdrive transmission with intelligence (ECT-i). The new transmission will help deliver quiet and smooth performance on par with a V6 and acceleration that is surprisingly quick for a four-cylinder. When equipped with a tow package, the new powerplant will achieve a maximum towing capacity of 3,500 pounds.
The new engine will come standard on the Highlander grade two-wheel-drive model equipped with two rows of seats, contributing to its excellent value. A third row seat package will also be available for families requiring additional seating capacity. Other key optional equipment will include an eight-way power driver's seat, manual rear air conditioning, and an AM/FM/six-disc CD Changer with satellite radio capability, MP3/WMA capability and six speakers.
With the new four-cylinder engine, Highlander will be the only mid-size SUV in the current market to offer three powerplant choices. The 3.5-liter Highlander V6, available in two- and full-time four-wheel drive, is among the leaders in fuel efficiency among V6 gas engines in its segment. The full-time 4WD-i Highlander Hybrid, equipped with a V6 powerplant with front and rear electric motors, stands above all others for fuel efficiency among all mid-size SUVs.
Since it first launched in 2001, Highlander has been one of Toyota's most popular vehicles, setting the standard for car-based SUVs in innovation, comfort and sales. Driver and passenger comfort is accomplished with segment leading seating versatility through innovative flexible seating functions for up to seven people. Comfort is complemented with one of the highest levels of standard safety features in the small- and mid-size SUV market including a segment-leading total of seven airbags.
CharmCityES 08-14-2008, 06:05 PM nice! should help foster sales of the H-lander as the old 2wd 4cyl models were very very very strong sellers due to their efficency and price....go toyota!
i hope the new 2.7 makes its way into the standard 4cyl camrys soon!
I wonder what Toyota will offer in Canada? We do not get a FWD Highlander model now (only AWD models are available in Canada), and the Gen1 2WD did not sell well. For the last year or two of of the previous generation HL, only the V6 AWD was available.
I also wonder if the Camry will get the 2.7-litre engine? Somehow I doubt it. I think that the Camry will get the 2.5-litre engine, with the 2.7-litre reserved for the larger, heavier models, like the Venza and Highlander. Perhaps the Avalon-replacement (either a new generation Avalon or a stretched Camry) will get the 2.7-litre engine as the lower-model engine.
Bakemono 08-14-2008, 10:48 PM I could see them putting the 2.7L in the Camry. The Camry and the Highlander share the same chassis, so I see no reason why that engine wouldnt work in a Camry.
ECHOKnight2000 08-14-2008, 10:56 PM Safe to assume the Venza will get this powerplant with this output. There go Highlander V6 sales:thumbsdow But I know generally the 4-bangers sell more than the V6 counterparts in the name of cost and now FE. Although I know some V6 are on par or close to their 4 cylinder engines in FE.
I'm surprised they announced it this early.
I'm with Sulu on this one. I don't see Toyota putting a 2.7ltr 4 banger in the Camry and possibly the Corolla (XRS and S trim models).
vasia 08-14-2008, 11:02 PM Interesting. I guess it's not a surprise that Toyota would equip the Highlander with the 2.7L engine, given current market conditions. Nice to see Toyota adapting to the market, instead of being ignorant of it. Combined with the 6 speed auto, it will have decent power and acceleration for the Highlander, not to mention most likely class-leading fuel economy. Both the Venza 2.7L and the Highlander 2.7L will be excellent in terms of fuel economy.
Sulu, Toyota would be crazy not to offer the 2.7L on the Highlander in Canada. You can count on it being in Canada. What trim(s) will it be offered on is another question though.
We finally have the numbers for the 2.7L, and they are interesting. I wonder if the 2.7L will be tuned differently in other vehicles or not. To compare both the 2.7L and 2.5L:
2AR-FE 2.5L (in Rav4):
179HP (6000 RPM) = 71.6 HP/L
172 lb-ft (4000 RPM) = 68.8 lb-ft/L
1AR-FE 2.7L (in Highlander):
187HP (5800 RPM) = 69.25 HP/L
186 lb-ft (4100 RPM) = 68.9 lb-ft/L
Torque numbers per liter are roughly the same on both engines, but notice the difference in HP. Clearly both engines are tuned somewhat differently. Using identical tuning, the 2.7L should be achieving 193HP. The 2.7L achieves peak HP at a lower RPM though than the 2.5L. Also unknown is whether the 2.5L in the Rav4 will use a dual exhaust manifold.
Numbers of course do not tell everything, and based on the wording from Toyota's press release, it seems to me the 2.7L in the Highlander will be tuned for exceptional low end torque delivery and an overall broad, flat torque curve. For the Highlander, it makes sense as it is much heavier than the Rav4. Tuning the 2.7L for exceptional low-end torque and an overall flat torque curve is the optimum strategy in this case, and will help the engine work less harder to move the Highlander, resulting in better refinement and fuel economy.
I also do believe the Camry will in-fact get the 2.7L. It seems that Toyota will pair the 2.7L with the 6 speed auto. Notice the 2.5L in the Rav4 does not get a 6 speed. If the Camry does in-fact get the 2.7L + 6 speed combo (which it seems likely) then it will be the rocket-ship of 4 cyl midsize sedans, and likely be the fuel economy leader as well.
As usual, Toyota quietly trumps the competition. Amidst growing criticism of the dated 2AZ engine, Toyota is now releasing not one, but two all-new 4 cyl engines to replace the 2AZ. The 2AZ served duty in a variety of vehicles. Having both the 1AR and 2AR to replace the 2AZ allows each engine to be more optimally tuned and tailored to specific vehicles.
Tideland Prius 08-15-2008, 01:55 AM That would explain the absence of a 4 cylinder Highlander in Canada. I think they would be wise to offer the 2.7 litre version in Canada. In these times, it's a good option. Back then, the 2AZ was a bit weak for the weight it has to carry around. It would also help lower the entry price too. An overlap with the RAV4 V6 Limited won't matter too much since those people are obviously looking for a V6 and the 2GR is a sweet engine.
My concern is not whether the 2.7L 1AR engine will physically fit in the Camry. I know that this engine will be in both the Venza and the Highlander, both of which are built on the Camry platform. (I have no doubt that the Venza and the Highlander will be sharing this engine; it may be tuned differently for the two applications, but with Toyota cutting back on the number of different families of engines, I do not see how Toyota would have 2 different engines with the same displacement.) My concern is whether -- with recent concerns about high fuel prices and high fuel consumption of certain vehicles -- Toyota would want to use this larger engine in the Camry. As I said earlier, Toyota could use this, smaller engine, in the Camry (and the Corolla-platform cars such as the RAV4), and use the larger engine for the larger Camry-platform cars, such as the Venza, Highlander and Camry-Plus (the Avalon replacement). To me, the smaller, 2.5L 2AR engine seems to be the natural replacement for the 2.4L 2AZ engine, and the larger, 2.7L 1AR engine is a new engine designed to be the lower-model engine for the larger Camry-based vehicles, like the crossovers (there was no true such engine before, because the 2.4L engine was too weak for use in the Camry-based crossover vehicles).
vasia, thanks for the specifications on these 2 engines. Could the lower relative horsepower of the 2.7L 1AR engine compared to the 2.5L 2AR engine be attributed to a longer stroke, given your thoughts that 2.7L has been tuned for low-end torque and a broad torque curve? Perhaps Toyota created the 2.5L engine from the initial 2.7L engine block by shortening the stroke? The difference in the stroke of the 2 engines is probably not that great, but how much of a difference would it make?
That brings up this thought: if the 2.7L engine does have a longer stroke than the 2.5L engine, how much taller is it compared to the smaller engine? Would it be enough that it would not fit under the hood of the Camry?
Another thought: anybody think that the 1AR engine will also find its way into Toyota's trucks, such as the lower-model engine on the Tacoma, replacing the 2.7L 2TR engine? That would reduce the number of engine families, and eliminate the truck-only engine families, which Toyota seems to be doing.
I agree with vasia and Tideland Prius, though, in that I would like to see the return of a 4-cylinder Highlander to Canada (along with a proper 3-across 2nd-row bench seat in the 2-row models). I have a friend who was able to find an early Gen1 4-cylinder Highlander, which he bought as a used car. He is not the type to buy a SUV, but he bought it as a Camry station wagon (due to the lack of true station wagons now). He seems quite happy with it, and does not miss the extra power that the V6 would have offered.
100$ GUY 08-15-2008, 01:59 PM What I found more interesting its the human nature at its best, check this out:
A few days ago, vasia was so sure that the 2AR was gonna be the engine in the 2010 camry. In fact, he said:
This is almost guaranteed to be the same engine that will be in the 2010 Camry replacing the 2AZ as well. The Camry could see even bigger fuel economy gains with the 2.5L than the Rav as the Camry has less frontal area, and therefore less drag to deal with. I estimate the 2010 Camry 4 cyl will achieve 22/34 EPA (assuming a 4 speed auto). (quote on vasia on the thread below)
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=255659&page=3
Now, well, seems opinions change so quickly haha.
I also do believe the Camry will in-fact get the 2.7L. It seems that Toyota will pair the 2.7L with the 6 speed auto. (quote on vasia on this thread)
Of course, nothing is easier to change your opinion when what u thought it would be, changed completely with a new scenario.
Again, its nothing against vasia (could have been xyz nickname), its just some insight on human nature.
Its like those posts predicting what will happen, or critizing cars because of this or that, but then oooops, when things become different, u easily change the speech instead of being a man and back up what u said before.
Anyway, its all part of the fun, all the speculations. I like that game.
But what makes it even funnier its when u say things about the future so sure and certain, hahaha, oh the human ego.
Once again seems honda knows what to do, they gave the cr-v a 4 cylinder engine only and they improved vastly the 4 cylinder engines of the new accord, instead of toyota for example, which offer a dated engine on the all new camry, an until now will improves engines , yes, until now. Now, saying that toyota reacts to the market, well, thats nothing of remark, nothing as easy as (no matter if it takes a bit of work or time) adjusting to what its actually happening right now! Even GM and ford are doing that, so? ...But anticipating in time, at the future events, at how the market will move, well that is something truly great.
Bakemono 08-15-2008, 06:41 PM What I found more interesting its the human nature at its best, check this out:
A few days ago, vasia was so sure that the 2AR was gonna be the engine in the 2010 camry. In fact, he said:
This is almost guaranteed to be the same engine that will be in the 2010 Camry replacing the 2AZ as well. The Camry could see even bigger fuel economy gains with the 2.5L than the Rav as the Camry has less frontal area, and therefore less drag to deal with. I estimate the 2010 Camry 4 cyl will achieve 22/34 EPA (assuming a 4 speed auto). (quote on vasia on the thread below)
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=255659&page=3
Now, well, seems opinions change so quickly haha.
I also do believe the Camry will in-fact get the 2.7L. It seems that Toyota will pair the 2.7L with the 6 speed auto. (quote on vasia on this thread)
Of course, nothing is easier to change your opinion when what u thought it would be, changed completely with a new scenario.
Again, its nothing against vasia (could have been xyz nickname), its just some insight on human nature.
Its like those posts predicting what will happen, or critizing cars because of this or that, but then oooops, when things become different, u easily change the speech instead of being a man and back up what u said before.
Anyway, its all part of the fun, all the speculations. I like that game.
But what makes it even funnier its when u say things about the future so sure and certain, hahaha, oh the human ego.
Once again seems honda knows what to do, they gave the cr-v a 4 cylinder engine only and they improved vastly the 4 cylinder engines of the new accord, instead of toyota for example, which offer a dated engine on the all new camry, an until now will improves engines , yes, until now. Now, saying that toyota reacts to the market, well, thats nothing of remark, nothing as easy as (no matter if it takes a bit of work or time) adjusting to what its actually happening right now! Even GM and ford are doing that, so? ...But anticipating in time, at the future events, at how the market will move, well that is something truly great.
Not only is that way off-topic and a bash, it made no sense whatsoever...:ugh3:
ECHOKnight2000 08-15-2008, 11:18 PM ^^^:lol::lol: I don't think he meant any harm. Just pointing out how we predict the future and if its not what we predicted then we're "wrong" or change the story. That's what I got from it but it wasn't to coherent. I wouldn't worry about it, just nod your head and move on:lol::lol::thumbsup:
TTercel 08-16-2008, 12:24 AM A 2.7L I4 200hp Camry would be awesome...
Look how times have changed, the 1MZ only makes 188hp LOL
Bakemono 08-16-2008, 12:53 PM Id rathar see them increase the fuel economy as much as possible, but if they can up the horsepower and keep the fuel economy the same or make it slightly better, why not?
Tideland Prius 08-16-2008, 01:00 PM Another thought: anybody think that the 1AR engine will also find its way into Toyota's trucks, such as the lower-model engine on the Tacoma, replacing the 2.7L 2TR engine? That would reduce the number of engine families, and eliminate the truck-only engine families, which Toyota seems to be doing.
Hmm... I do notice Toyota has a separate set of engines for their trucks and they don't seem related (other than the i-Force V8) to the passenger car counterpart. Their truck engines aren't exactly the most fuel efficient (just looking at the 2.7 and 4.0 litres). However, they are tuned for torque.
Anyway, so after that (perhaps not so coherent) paragraph, if they can tune the 1AR for more torque than what's currently offered for the Highlander, then perhaps they can start using passenger car engines in their trucks. That's my only concern.
TTercel 08-16-2008, 06:57 PM Any thoughts on direct injection being used in these engines?
Bakemono 08-16-2008, 10:16 PM I think we'd be fools to think that Toyota isnt testing any and all possible future engine technologies, direct-injection included.
Tideland Prius 08-17-2008, 02:39 AM Good point actually. Are the 1AR engines just dual VVT-i or will they include direct injection for the Highlander and Venza application?
Bakemono 08-17-2008, 12:23 PM I havent heard anything about Toyota coming out with direct-injection. I know that Ford's new Ecoboost engines will be turbocharged and direction-injected, but I havent heard about anything like that coming from Toyota.
Like I said though, Im sure they are testing it. Toyota has said time and time again that they dont feel that any 1 design is going to achieve us sustained mobility. They are looking at everything from ethanol to diesels to hybrids to plug-in electric to hydrogen. Just because they arent bringing it to market yet doesnt mean that there isnt some top-secret testing mule somewhere that is running it.
I havent heard anything about Toyota coming out with direct-injection. I know that Ford's new Ecoboost engines will be turbocharged and direction-injected, but I havent heard about anything like that coming from Toyota.
Like I said though, Im sure they are testing it. Toyota has said time and time again that they dont feel that any 1 design is going to achieve us sustained mobility. They are looking at everything from ethanol to diesels to hybrids to plug-in electric to hydrogen. Just because they arent bringing it to market yet doesnt mean that there isnt some top-secret testing mule somewhere that is running it.
Toyota already has direct-injected gasoline engines in its lineup, just not in North America (not including Lexus). Lexus, of course has the 2GR-FSE engine in the IS 350 that combines direct injection with traditional port injection.
According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_AZ_engine), Toyota has a direct-injected gasoline engine, the 1AZ-FSE that was (I don't know if it still is) available on the Toyota Avensis. I don't know if this engine is available on other Toyota models. (Other models with this engine are listed on Wikipedia, but I have not been able to confirm that they were or are indeed available with a direct-injected engine.)
As to why Toyota has not made direct-injected gasoline engines available in North America, I can think of the following possible reasons:
Gasoline direct injection (GDI) is still a relatively new technology, so it may not yet be as reliable as traditional port injection. North Americans are very conservative -- technology-averse and prefer something reliable -- when it comes to their (Toyota) family cars, so they may not accept it.
GDI is still a relatively new technology, so it may not yet be as inexpensive as traditional port injection. North Americans are very conservative -- very price-sensitive -- when it comes to their family cars, so they may not want to pay for it.
Toyota does not feel that it needs GDI in its North American engine lineup right now. Its engines are more than competitive (high torque and power, with low fuel consumption) without GDI.I found the following quotation on the Toyota corporate website when I did a search for direct injection:
Toyota strives, in its move towards energy diversification, to provide the necessary vehicle at the time and place it is needed, i.e. the right vehicle at the right time and in the right place.Source: http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/tech/environment/powertrain/
So, Toyota may not think that it is yet the right time to provide GDI engines in this right place, North America.
Ford's EcoBoost technology does incorporate direct-injection with turbocharging, but Ford is in a different situation than Toyota. Both are being affected by the new CAFE regulations, but Toyota already has a nice, balanced lineup of small, medium and large cars and trucks, with a range of modern, highly efficient engines; its fuel-economy average is already the highest in North America, higher, in fact, than Honda.
Ford, on the other hand, has larger, heavier cars and trucks and it needs to bring up its average fuel economy. EcoBoost is the technology that will allow Ford to place smaller, more fuel-efficient engines in its larger vehicles. "Desperate times call for desperate measures."
Bakemono 08-17-2008, 04:27 PM Ford's EcoBoost technology does incorporate direct-injection with turbocharging, but Ford is in a different situation than Toyota. Both are being affected by the new CAFE regulations, but Toyota already has a nice, balanced lineup of small, medium and large cars and trucks, with a range of modern, highly efficient engines; its fuel-economy average is already the highest in North America, higher, in fact, than Honda.
Ford, on the other hand, has larger, heavier cars and trucks and it needs to bring up its average fuel economy. EcoBoost is the technology that will allow Ford to place smaller, more fuel-efficient engines in its larger vehicles. "Desperate times call for desperate measures."
Well, Toyota doesnt make any 3/4 ton, 1 ton or bigger trucks. If they did, their average fuel economy wouldnt be any better than Ford.
The days of Toyota having a fuel economy advantage are over. Toyota may not think that they need to bring GDI here now, but if Ford comes out with it and it works, it makes Toyota look like a fool.
Toyota needs to be careful not to fall into the same trap that the domestics feel into, where they become comfortable with their place in the industry and get lazy and complacent, causing them to fall behind their rivals and get left behind.
Just as Toyota has risen to dominance, they could just as easily fall by the wayside.
I also dont agree with Ford being desperate. The Focus, Fusion, Edge and Escape are all selling really well right now. The F-150 is still the best-selling truck in America and Ford is doing a lot to improve their place in the industry. Quality is up and Ford claims they will soon beat Toyota in initial quality.
So, things are not all gloom and doom for Ford. Obviously, the gas prices threw a monkey wrench in their plan to return to profitability by '09, but Ford has a plan and I think its going to work.
I know some of you guys get off on the thought of Ford and GM going bankrupt, but its not gonna happen.
91MR2quickNA 08-17-2008, 11:25 PM GDI isn't any more expensive than traditional port injection (aside from new heads, pistons, injectors, and ECUs). Toyota's first lean burn DI engine was the 3S-FSE, which could accomplish a 50:1 AFR under low-load scenarios. It is one of Toyota's only engines to accomplish such a lean burn, and I believe the 1AZ-FSE can do the same. That makes the engine extremely efficient under low-load. Anyway, Toyota has two forms of GDI: D-4 and D-4S.
D-4 is the tradtional, less expensive direct to cylinder injection. It employs only one injector per cylinder and can lean burn (low-load, steady cruise) up to around a 35:1 AFR with the exception of the 3S-FSE at 50:1.
D-4S is quite a complex, expensive system. The amount of programming needed to precisely control both port and direct injectors is massive. In addition, the cost of needing 2x as many injectors makes it that much more costly. These engines lean burn at only around 20 to 25:1 AFR because of their performance oriented programming.
Toyota's current and previous GDI engines (AFAIK):
3S-FSE (2.0L I4, D-4, VVT-i, 145ps)
1AZ-FSE (2.0L I4, D-4, VVT-i. 155ps)
2AZ-FSE (2.4L I4, D-4, VVT-i, 163ps) [improvement comes in torque]
3GR-FSE (3.0L V6, D-4, DVVT-i, 245hp)
4GR-FSE (2.5L V6, D-4, DVVT-i, 204hp)
2GR-FSE (3.5L V6, D-4S, DVVT-i, 306hp)
1UR-FSE (4.6L V8, D-4S, DVVT-i/VVT-iE, 380hp)
2UR-FSE (5.0L V8, D-4S, DVVT-i/VVT-iE/HSD, 393hp)
2UR-GSE (5.0L V8, D-4S, DVVT-i/VVT-iE, 416hp)
The fate of the 1AZ-FSE is sketchy. With the release of the new AR engines in 2.5L and 2.7L form, I don't believe Toyota will create a low displacement AR engine. That is already covered by the 2.0L 3ZR-FE and 3ZR-FAE (Valvematic).
Now it'll be interesting when Toyota combines Valvematic with GDI.
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