spark plug wires?

Okay - I've gotten greasy before, but it's been a while - most of my wrenching has been done on carburetor-based engines. My '97 T-100 V-6 apparently needs new plug wires and/or plugs - I've had it for a couple of months, and haven't had much time to go over it. I went out and bought the wires, thinkin' I could look the plugs over and get 'em if they looked worn or burnt at the electrodes - or even oxidized. What I got was 3 wires for my V-6, which set me back a few paces. I looked under the hood, and sure enough - only 3 wires, not accessible enough to want to work further on in 0F temps. It got drastically worse - wouldn't start at all in subzero temps, ran very ragged when it started (right away) yesterday. Today, in even warmer temps, it wouldn't start again - just not enough spark. I've got no shop manual (or even owner's manual), but work I'd done on younger Toyotas (a Corolla and a SR-5 that both served me well) had been fairly straightforward. Swapping out plugs and wires should be fairly simple - but the 3-wire thing has me spooked. With all that said, here's my question - is there anything cute or unusual I should know about changing these simple parts out? Anything I should look for (or avoid) in choosing plugs? I 'spect to love the thing when it's warm enough to do some tweaking, but getting it to run now, while it's only chilly here in Minnesnowta, would be a good thing, too. Thanks in advance! Danno, the cluefull newbie, or the clueless who used to make a living wrenching - when he wasn't hunting brontosaurs.

The direct ignition coil pack sits over 3 plugs and that's where wires lead from and to the other 3 spark plugs. The system you knew before was distributed spark with a distributor and wires that led from the distributor cap to the spark plugs.

Have you pulled yer plugs and looked at the condition of them? Did you pull any codes from yer ECU via the OBDII port? You could buy and use some of the newer diagnostic setups that you can run from yer computer to yer vehicle to actually see what part isn't doing their job. AutoTap (http://www.autotap.com) is one... You can also drop by AutoZone and have them pull the codes fer you. ;)

Keep in mind that the ECU (computer) controls just about everything dealing with the operation of the engine based on the various sensors littered about. If a sensor should go wrong...well...I'm sure you can see where that could lead to bad performance. I'm thinking that yer coolant temp sensor could be bad as this seems a common part to fail and cause problems. You can search fer posts in reference to that and you should be able to find the proper resistance value fer it at temp. :D

Make sure you get the double ground spark plugs (FACTORY SPEC). The last time I had them replaced the effing Maine hick mechanic didn't, and they lasted about 15k before causing trouble.

The direct ignition coil pack sits over 3 plugs and that's where wires lead from and to the other 3 spark plugs. The system you knew before was distributed spark with a distributor and wires that led from the distributor cap to the spark plugs.

Okay - new turf, but I should be able to figure this part out.

Have you pulled yer plugs and looked at the condition of them? Did you pull any codes from yer ECU via the OBDII port? Yup - I'm a dinosaur - I have no idea of where the OBDII port is, much less how it works.
You could buy and use some of the newer diagnostic setups that you can run from yer computer to yer vehicle to actually see what part isn't doing their job. AutoTap (http://www.autotap.com) is one... You can also drop by AutoZone and have them pull the codes fer you. ;)I had 'em check the codes at a Tires Plus (with oil change, generally overdue 'check everything' diagnostic, and like that) - they told me it was the wires gettin' old, and made it all better for about 24 hours (without charging me for the fix).

Running from my 'puter to my truck would be tricky - the 'puter is up on second floor, about 40' from my driveway, and there's no power run out to the garage. (If I do run power out there, running the network out there would be pretty simple, and stackin' in an old, minimal-use linux box is where I'd go - but that's not happening before spring, and probably not this year.) I've got an Auto Zone nearby for next time, if I can get this beast runnin' again.


Keep in mind that the ECU (computer) controls just about everything dealing with the operation of the engine based on the various sensors littered about. If a sensor should go wrong...well...I'm sure you can see where that could lead to bad performance. I'm thinking that yer coolant temp sensor could be bad as this seems a common part to fail and cause problems. You can search fer posts in reference to that and you should be able to find the proper resistance value fer it at temp. :DYou're misjudging my skill - easy enough to do, it's just a little thing, hard to see clearly. When it was running rough, the oil pressure/coolant temp guages were doing what I expected them to - or would that be a different system than the sensor you're speaking of?

Make sure you get the double ground spark plugs (FACTORY SPEC). The last time I had them replaced the effing Maine hick mechanic didn't, and they lasted about 15k before causing trouble.
Aha! One of the things I needed to know, and didn't - thanks!

Seriously, folks - it's been a long time since I've wrenched. I had planned on getting back into it, rebuilding the engine on the old Honda 750 in the garage, and doin' the minor-to-middlin' work on the Toy - but it's 9F here now, and the T-100 won't fit in my garage until spring, so I'd like someone with experience to tell me either that this is really a fairly easy thing, shouldn't take more than 45 minutes, or that it's much more complex than it used to be, and I should bite the bullet and have it done at a shop this time. What I don't want is to spend an hour outside, have it remain clearly over my head, and have to have a shop fix both the original problem and the mistakes I made working on it myself.

Um... there's probably a thread to search here on this, but suggestions on sources for the simple shop manuals (or good manuals, cheap) would be pretty welcome, too.

I'm getting too old to be such a n00b....

Danno

Danno,
I'm in middle NY right now in an apartment but my wife and I still own a house in Maine. I've never lived anywhere where the cold didn't suck! The thing I remember most about Minneapolis was how cold it got when the wind blows... I feel your pain.

As an aside on plugs, the 5VZFEs came with Densos on one side and NGKs on the others. There is some dispute about this, but many people have observed the Densos were in much rougher shape when replaced. I went with the NGKs for this reason. You should also gap the plugs yourself, even if they're supposedly pre-gapped. You could go with a platinum as well, but I opted out.

As far as manuals go- The non-factory manuals available for the T are so-so. They mostly cover a bunch of toyota vehicles in addition to the T, but do the job for the msot part. I personally bought an FSM off ebay (and own a haynes) for about $60. If you plan on having the truck for a while I would go this route, or wait until I digitize mine.

For your immediate use in seeing what's involved for the plug wires, download the FSM for a 5vzfe (your engine) tacoma from here:
http://www.ncttora.com/fsm/index.html
Everything will be the same.

For the plugs and wires, make sure you have gasketed plug wrench which grabs the plug along with a tight holding extension - they're fairly deep.

I think you can handle it, though. I'd wait for the wind to stop and the sun to shine.

Cheers,
Rob

P.S.
I wanted to add that after I read your description again, this behavior is identical to what I had earlier this year. The bad spark plugs ultimately made the truck extremely easy to flood, and that easy flooding made the problem even harder to nail down. I might even start with some new proper type and properly gapped plugs and see if that solves your problem.

Coolant temp sensor isn't fer the gauge...it's fer the ECU.

Look this thread (http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=261253&highlight=coolant+temp+sensor) over to see some piccies and what we came up with.

Spark plugs...from NGK's website (http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/part_finder/car_truck_suv/index.asp):

1997 TOYOTA T100 SR5 3.4 V6 5VZ-FE FI
Spark Plug Part No. Stock No. Plug Gap Photo
Standard BKR5EKB-11 # 3967 .044
V-Power BKR5E-11 6953 .044
G-Power BKR5EGP 7090 .044
Laser Platinum BKR5EKPB-11 * 4302 .044
Iridium IX BKR5EIX-11 5464 .044
* “Laser Series” Platinum center electrode, and Platinum pad ground electrode
# Original Equipment Manufacturer, and/or Original Equipment Service Part
^ “Laser Series” Iridium center electrode, and Platinum pad ground electrode

Looks like the standard and the laser platinum have the dual ground electrodes. The others are single ground electrodes.

Part Number: BKR5EKB-11
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/images/tip/ngk36A.jpg
Part Number: BKR5EKPB-11 *
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/images/tip/ngk58A.jpg

Danno,
I'm in middle NY right now in an apartment but my wife and I still own a house in Maine. I've never lived anywhere where the cold didn't suck! The thing I remember most about Minneapolis was how cold it got when the wind blows... I feel your pain.

To tell the truth, we never hit the sunny side of 0F last week, so today's highs in the teens don't feel so bad - you get acclimated. Starting plugs with gloves on doesn't sound like fun, though, so the finners may get a tad chilly... :rolleyes:

As an aside on plugs, the 5VZFEs 5 Volt, Zoom-Fast Engine? Or is that a model number? I thought I was doin' good parsing V6DOHC. ;)

came with Densos on one side and NGKs on the others. There is some dispute about this, but many people have observed the Densos were in much rougher shape when replaced. I went with the NGKs for this reason. You should also gap the plugs yourself, even if they're supposedly pre-gapped. You could go with a platinum as well, but I opted out.According to their site, Automax has NGK platinums for the T-100 here (http://www1.autozone.com/R,2937229/vehicleId,2356501/initialAction,partProductDetail/store,3099/partType,00033/shopping/partProductDetail.htm) for only $3 each - but the pic doesn't look like it's got the double ground you suggested. We'll see at the shop - they probably need some humor about now, anyway.

As far as manuals go- The non-factory manuals available for the T are so-so. They mostly cover a bunch of toyota vehicles in addition to the T, but do the job for the msot part. I personally bought an FSM off ebay (and own a haynes) for about $60. If you plan on having the truck for a while I would go this route, or wait until I digitize mine. <twiddling thumbs> - I don't wanna rush you or anything, but if it's in the plan anyway, I'd appreciate a headzup when you've got it done. :D FWIW, I tend to keep 'em until the roadsalt kills 'em dead - so I expect to keep this one until it's old enough to vote. (When they're old enough to go out and get a job, I get impressed.)

For your immediate use in seeing what's involved for the plug wires, download the FSM for a 5vzfe (your engine) tacoma from here:
http://www.ncttora.com/fsm/index.html
Everything will be the same.May the diety of your choice smile upon you and the beverage of your choice be ever to your hand. Many, many thanks.
For the plugs and wires, make sure you have gasketed plug wrench which grabs the plug along with a tight holding extension - they're fairly deep.

I think you can handle it, though. I'd wait for the wind to stop and the sun to shine.It's my only ride (unless you count a '74 motorcycle that hasn't been started in a decade, and mostly, I don't), so it's gotta be today or tomorrow. It's not even going below 0 tonight, so it shouldn't be too awful - not with the advice I'm gettin' here.

Cheers,
Rob

P.S.
I wanted to add that after I read your description again, this behavior is identical to what I had earlier this year. The bad spark plugs ultimately made the truck extremely easy to flood, and that easy flooding made the problem even harder to nail down. I might even start with some new proper type and properly gapped plugs and see if that solves your problem.I've already got the wires (what Tires Plus said), so they should be easy, once I'm in there doin' plugs. I'll let y'all know how it turns out - but for now, many, many thanks, Rob and BamZipPow!

Danno
Minnesnowta - where many are cold, but few are frozen.

Looks like AutoZone should have the BKR5EKB-11 fer about $4.29 (http://www.autozone.com/R,3661759/initialAction,partProductDetail/store,1319/partType,00033/shopping/partProductDetail.htm) each... :D

Good luck and keep warm. If you have to do one plug at a time and go back in to warm up do so! Not to make you jealous...but it's 54°F here in Houston. ;)

Coolant temp sensor isn't fer the gauge...it's fer the ECU.

Look this thread (http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=261253&highlight=coolant+temp+sensor) over to see some piccies and what we came up with.

Okay - I've looked it over, and with the temp sensor being $230, I'm gonna hope it's okay, and see if plugs/wires fixes it. I've got a very basic voltmeter and continuity tester, am not equipped (in knowhow, either) to check resistance. I knew I shoulda taken electronics shop....


Spark plugs...from NGK's website (http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/part_finder/car_truck_suv/index.asp):

Looks like the standard and the laser platinum have the dual ground electrodes. The others are single ground electrodes.

Part Number: BKR5EKB-11
<pictures deleted>
Part Number: BKR5EKPB-11 *
Now I'm confused again - and of course, the NGK part numbers don't match at all with the Automax part numbers - I'll have to go into the shop and look at the box with these numbers. Everywhere I've seen NGK mentioned here, it's been a happy report, so I'm inclined in that direction. I don't mind paying $20 or $30 for a set, but I'm not trying for uber-performance, more solid and reliable - which are you recommending? Or are you saying that some single-ground plugs will do the job just fine, as long as I stick with the NGK plugs that NGK recommends for my buggy?

Danno, whose brain isn't seeming to fire today, either.

Didn't find any at NAPAonline.com but I did find the BKR5EKB11 at Advance Auto (http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/ProductDetail.aspx?MfrCode=NGK&MfrPartNumber=BKR5EKB11) fer $7 each. Hope you find some locally.

The standard dual electrode BKR5EKB-11 gapped at .044 was stock on the T-100 3.4L engine. This is the one I'm recommending to you since you need to git yer truck up and running. I figured with the links to AutoZone and Advance Auto that you should be able to source some locally and git yer truck up and running today. :D

Looks like AutoZone should have the BKR5EKB-11 fer about $4.29 (http://www.autozone.com/R,3661759/initialAction,partProductDetail/store,1319/partType,00033/shopping/partProductDetail.htm) each... :D
Wow! You answered before I even posted the question - that's downright impressive. If you ever get up this way, the first round's on me.


Good luck and keep warm. If you have to do one plug at a time and go back in to warm up do so! Not to make you jealous...but it's 54°F here in Houston. ;)Oh, I'm not shy at all about doing a plug or two, inside for cocoa, do another plug, and like that - up here, we check winter weather before anything else.

A few decades ago, I did basic training at San Antonio, and was amazed at how the Texas wind could bring "comfortably cool" temps into downright miserable. It gets breezy like that up here, too - but I've got no Sergeants to keep me outdoors, so I'll be able to console myself on the lakes this spring.

'Nuff chatter - I should probably get hikin' the half-mile to the shop, well-armed with advice.

You folks are great!

Danno
Bundlin' up....

Fergot to mention...when you git yer truck up and running...take it over to AutoZone and they can show you where the OBDII port is and pull any codes fer yah. I believe it's accessed and located by the driver's right knee near the radio/brake handle.

I got a Scangauge (http://www.scangauge.com/) to plug into my wife's 2001 Camry OBDII port so I can pull/clear codes myself and she can see how well/bad she is doing gas MPG-wise... ;)

Wow! You answered before I even posted the question - that's downright impressive. If you ever get up this way, the first round's on me.

Oh, I'm not shy at all about doing a plug or two, inside for cocoa, do another plug, and like that - up here, we check winter weather before anything else.

A few decades ago, I did basic training at San Antonio, and was amazed at how the Texas wind could bring "comfortably cool" temps into downright miserable. It gets breezy like that up here, too - but I've got no Sergeants to keep me outdoors, so I'll be able to console myself on the lakes this spring.

'Nuff chatter - I should probably get hikin' the half-mile to the shop, well-armed with advice.

You folks are great!

Danno
Bundlin' up....

It might be easier to call them and have them reserve those fer you so yer not wasting yer time/heat trudging up there. ;)

I'm retired USAF. :D

First thing I did when I got my not-yet-week-old T was change the plugs and wires. At first, I thought the Toyota dealer shortchanged me 3 wires. :-) Strange seeing that post about 3 NGKs and 3 Densos, hadn't heard that before The dealer set me up with Denso K16TR11's -- same as the 6 I pulled. btw, other than a couple 6inch extensions, a telescopic magnet thing came in mighty handy. Was 5F when I changed em. Also found a vaccum tube hanging and re-attached. Runs great.

I just joined this board after purchasing a 96 2WD XCab 2 weeks ago. Saw this post about the plugwires, thought I would add my recent experience. First Toyota, and first coil pack engine for me. I pulled the plugs, found 3 densos and 3 NGKs and thought previous owner got ripped by some shop. Did not know they came that way from the factory before this thread. I ordered a new wire set from amazon(NGK set only $30 delivered) new NGK plugs yes...the right ones dual tip. They were not gapped correctly right out of the box so definitely check them. I love this truck, it is in great condition and this site has already been a huge help. Gonna make a appt with the local dealer to get the timing belt done. Truck has 134k miles and no evidence of it ever being done. I am the 4th owner of this truck but will most likely be its last....

I just joined this board after purchasing a 96 2WD XCab 2 weeks ago. Saw this post about the plugwires, thought I would add my recent experience. First Toyota, and first coil pack engine for me. I pulled the plugs, found 3 densos and 3 NGKs and thought previous owner got ripped by some shop. Did not know they came that way from the factory before this thread. I ordered a new wire set from amazon(NGK set only $30 delivered) new NGK plugs yes...the right ones dual tip. They were not gapped correctly right out of the box so definitely check them. I love this truck, it is in great condition and this site has already been a huge help. Gonna make a appt with the local dealer to get the timing belt done. Truck has 134k miles and no evidence of it ever being done. I am the 4th owner of this truck but will most likely be its last....

AZJeff, for future reference, which side had the NGKs??

Drivers side had Densos, Passenger side had NGKs. I assumed NGK from the factory, and that perhaps a shop had only replaced the 3 on the drivers side that they could trace the plug wires to.

What kind of gas mileage are you seeing now? Just curious... :D

Well, let's see. When I got the truck, it had been sitting for 2+ yrs. I actually test drove it with old gas in it(didn't know that at the time) Previous owner lived only a few miles from me. Brought it home, drained old gas, filled tank with fresh 87 with some fuel system treatment added. I changed the oil and filter(Mobil One 10-30w...no leaks on this truck at all) and drove it. Got 21 mpg in town on that tank. I then changed the plugs and wires and took a trip to San Diego and back, 95% freeway travel @ 75-80 mph and got 18-19 mpg. Yesterday I changed the air filter, cleaned the TB, and sprayed the MAF sensor. Will post results of my next few tanks averages. I am very pleased with the mileage/performance of the truck so far. I am going to replace the fuel filter, but it is a rigged up situation down there. Original style filter is not there, replaced with a generic hose-fitting with clamps style filter instead of hard lines with the nuts on the ends to attach(hope I explained that clearly??) Might ask the dealer about that when I get the timing belt done, does not appear to have ever had this done and I am at 135K miles. The truck runs great though, no noises at all, very smooth and solid.

Drivers side had Densos, Passenger side had NGKs. I assumed NGK from the factory, and that perhaps a shop had only replaced the 3 on the drivers side that they could trace the plug wires to.

Here's a whole thread on 5vzfe spark plugs.
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=248252

I bought my T from my grandfather's estate when he took the long dirt nap... So I wasn't around for the first spark plug change. However, I did observe this first hand on a friend's later model 5vzfe tacoma.

Thanks for that thread link. Like the guy in it said, we won't know why NGKs were used on one side and Densos on the other til the factory tells us. But I agree there may be a nontechnical reason. Supply chains of large corporations do, in fact, have supplier ratings which help contain their cost (I've been in a large corporate supply chain for over 12 years and can attest to it firsthand). And in the situation where you have two 'preferred' suppliers, the ideal sourcing strategy would be to procure half your materials from one supplier and half from the other. Splitting your sourcing right down the middle of the engine makes sense. However, if that were the case, I would think that strategy would have manifested itself in other Toyota engines (one side NGK, the other Denso). If other Toyota engines did not employ this strategy, it increases the probability there was a technical reason.

It would be interesting to know if engines besides the 5VZFE used NGKs AND Densos.

:headbang: Nothin' quite like getting back into doing my own mechanic work and getting in over my head first thing - on spark plugs, yet! I trudged down to Automax, and got their last 6 NGKs, and then got busy on other stuff, so I didn't get to puttin' them in until today.

I figured I'd get the wires swapped out first, to get the easy stuff out of the way, and start working on the spark plugs - and I'd have a bit of familiarity with the area then, too. Nothing too odd, until I got to the coil (passenger) side. Could someone explain why automotive engineers have a fondness for plastic clips that can't be pried loose unless you get the engine block out of the way first? Fortunately, I was replacing them anyway, so the ones I broke didn't matter - but someday, I'm gonna get one of those engineers under a gun, and make them do the actual, not-at-the-drawingboard work. Anyway, I got them done, and routed properly, and could start on the spark plugs.

Front two on the drivers's side were easy enough, but I will admit I was a bit nonplussed to see the whole plug socket disappear before it found a plug.

The plugs may not have been all of the problem, but they certainly were part of it - Bosch platinum FR8DPX, single well-worn electrode, light carbon deposits - about what you'd expect, but they looked like they wanted retirement (even if they'd been the right plugs) a couple of thousand miles back.

My cheapo wrench set wouldn't budge the bracket that protects the third plug, so I decided to work the other side, and save the ugly one for last. :lol:

Come to think of it, just where are the passenger-side plugs? Back to the FSM. Okay - I've gotta pull the coils off to get to them, it seems. FSM says to remove the Air Cleaner cap and MAF meter assembly. Should be easy enough - they have hints for other stuff that seems obvious.

The air cleaner has 4 wire bails holding it on - easy. The other end of the air hose has a simple hose clamp - still easy. But wait - there's an electric connector into the hose, very close to the air cleaner cap - that has to come off. Another cute plastic clip that (it may just be me) doesn't seem obvious in how it's released. Fiddle with a screwdriver for a while, scream a bit, and the clip finally flies off. Looking under where the clip used to be, I STILL can't figure out how I was supposed to get it off. That'll need replacing, but it's a good friction fit - it may be okay until spring. The Air Cleaner meter and MAF cap are out of the way.

1 10mm bolt holding each coil down, easy to slap a wrench on. :thumbsup: I remember enjoyin' working on my Corolla, back in the '80s. This may be easy from here on out. The FSM says to lay the coils out in proper order, so they go back properly - I'll be clever and do them one at a time. Probably not as quick, but certainly more idjiit-proof.

Folks - the coils have long tails underneath them, reaching down about 6" to reach the spark plugs, and they're wired to the engine block, with about 2" of play. The coil tails are flexible toward the tip, but it's still like wrestling Mary Sue's bra off on a first date in high school - it can be done, but it's gonna be an accomplishment. I may have been supposed to disconnect those wires (else, how would I lay the coils out in proper order?), but the FSM didn't say anything about it, so I didn't.

First one, rear, goes fairly well, but I don't get that click when reseating the coil. Hmmm. Pull the coil back off, plug another spark plug into the tail - no click. I don't like it, but I'll just have to trust it.

The middle one, I have to get later - that puppy simply would not come out. I bent my flexible extension (which was quite handy on the driver's side) pretty badly, and still couldn't get enough torque up to loosen the plug. Took about 5 minutes to wobble the plug socket loose - it really liked that plug. The Great Neck extension is still usable, but it's not very pretty - and while they're not SK or Craftsman, they're usually pretty fair mid-line tools.

The front one came off middlin' easy, but my toes were goin' numb - it's been actual warm today, so everything was meltish, and I'd loaned my bunny boots to a buddy camping with Cub Scouts this weekend - being noble never pays. I've got 1 plug on each side left to replace, after I get better tools. All 6 worked, without complaining, 3 weeks ago. Making 4 of them much better, plus new wires, is all I can do for now. It certainly does seem to have more pep then it had before the check engine light came on.

I do a fair bit of woodwork, and was thinkin' of altering my plans for a picnic table to bein' about 3' wide and 20" high, for something to stand on when I work on this beast. Or would that make me a wuss? I'm only 5'11"....

Danno
Who now has groceries and cigarettes, and a truck that starts! Wheee!:thumbsup:

Forgot to update this after I'd finished the plugs - thought I'd get to it before I got any further behind.

Got some more muscular sockets and extensions, and traded out the remaining two plugs - fairly simple, if there was a bit of fol-de-rol. For the plug closest to the driver, you've gotta move a brace - 10mm on the top bolt, 12mm on the bottom, but the bottom one only needs to be loosened, not removed. Apparently the guy who worked on this last was too lazy to do it - every other plug was Bosch, this one was an AC - still, with only the one electrode. With the right tools the first time, it's really easier than it looks to be - shouldn't take longer than 45 minutes, workin' slowly. The 'check engine' light remains on - does it need something done to reset it?

In any case, the low-RPM hesitation is gone, and it's running pretty smooth. I've got a medium-long trip to take, and I'll be using it to get a more accurate idea of what the highway mileage is now. I'm gonna try the throttle body spacer after I get back, so I'll be able to give actual numbers on the improvement in mileage, if any.

Stop by AutoZone and have them pull the code(s). You can have them reset it or you can pull the fuse to the ECM fer a few minutes. ;)

Do they coils go bad on these? Would that also give the same symptoms? What kind of mileage do you get out of the coils?