No 8th Gen Celi in NA but.....

A couple of weeks ago toyota officially anounced the death of the celica in North America but it was pretty obvious that they would continue it overseas.

From what a japanese magazine says, the 8th gen will be released in 2006 with the top model having 250 hp AWD 2AZ-GTE. It also states that the concept of the 8th Gen was presented at the australian auto show.

Here is a link the to a pic:

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=40261&highlight=sportivo+concept

IMO, it makes sense that this could possibly be the 8th Gen concept but my question is, if they were using a 2AZ-GTE, why not use the 3S-GTE? Does the 2AZ have any advantages and are there currently any cars using a turboed 2AZ?

This is just a discussion thread. Obviously this information may not be true so please do not state that as I think many people enjoy having an interesting discussion.

I am going to be really pissed if japan gets a turbo awd mahine and we don't. Toyota keeps giving us all this fwd bull$hit. Don't they see how well the WRX and EVO are doing? The old Celicas failed because they were "girl cars". People looking for real performance don't buy fwd cars, and the 1.8 engine had to be driven like a maniac just to get the car to run low 15's. Then there were issues with it leaving the powerband after shifts. Not impressive at all.

The obvious benefit to the 2az-gte over the 3sgte is displacement. It's a 2.4 liter vs. a 2.0 liter. No cars currently use this engine(the G head turbo version at least) since it would be brand new but the powerband on it would have to be extremely torquey and very wide. People with Hi power turbo MR2's often run into the problem of the power delivery being much too peaky. This SHOULD be a non-issue with the 2az-gte.

I hope that if this car is realized, the awd version is brought to the U.S. They should keep the fwd version of the celica dead here, but I think Toyota could really make some money(or at least create an image) off a limited production awd turbo sports car.

You know what would be really awesome though? If they gave the tC awd and that engine. :eek: The engine would fit in the car no problem, all they would need to do is get the awd to work.

Damn this man.....everytime something good comes out of the Toyota camp, its never released here in north america (or at least Canada)....we were lucky to get the supra and gt4 celica back then...(I woulda loved to see the gt4 6gen celica here)...since then there had been no power players for Toyota NA. Its too bad....:disappoin

I guess Subaru will get my cash. After riding in that STi piloted by a good driver, I was SOLD.

Even a WRX - $25k and a good, solid car.

My only beef with the tC is that is much too heavy. I believe they added additional beams to the car to make it much safer and the glass roof is nice but probably contributes to it's overweight.

Originally posted by Merciles
IMO, it makes sense that this could possibly be the 8th Gen concept but my question is, if they were using a 2AZ-GTE, why not use the 3S-GTE? Does the 2AZ have any advantages and are there currently any cars using a turboed 2AZ?


Larger displacement. Newer technology. Aluminum Block (S series is iron).

I suspect Toyota will be phasing out the S series soon anyways. It was a great engine for it's day, but technology marches on.

Part of the reason why the 3S-GTE was kept alive so long is because it met the requirements for WRC. Which stipulates a 2.0L turbocharged four-banger (like the Lan Evo, WRX, and earlier Celicas). Now that Toyota no longer participates in WRC, they can pretty much stick any displacement engine in they want to.

- John

Originally posted by Merciles
My only beef with the tC is that is much too heavy. I believe they added additional beams to the car to make it much safer and the glass roof is nice but probably contributes to it's overweight.

I would like a NO SUNROOF option on the Scion.

The last thing a car needs is the weight and raised center of gravity of a sunroof.

unfortnately thats not a Celica concept and is not touring anywhere, it was mainly a project for Toyota of Australia and Hella Lighting Corp to do.

As for the 8th Gen Celi having a 2az, its not gonna happend there is another engine that they are gonna be using the 2.5L 1JZ-FSE with an upgradeable option of the 1JZ-GTE both of them are ECT-iE, and is a very strong and very reliable.... The 1JZ-FSE is pushing 250hp while the 1JZ-GTE is at 378hp.

They're putting a straight 6 into the next Celica??? That's not very Celica like at all. In fact, I'd say it's more Celica-Supra... hmm....

Originally posted by Sportivo Concepts
unfortnately thats not a Celica concept and is not touring anywhere, it was mainly a project for Toyota of Australia and Hella Lighting Corp to do.

As for the 8th Gen Celi having a 2az, its not gonna happend there is another engine that they are gonna be using the 2.5L 1JZ-FSE with an upgradeable option of the 1JZ-GTE both of them are ECT-iE, and is a very strong and very reliable.... The 1JZ-FSE is pushing 250hp while the 1JZ-GTE is at 378hp.

I call BS on that. I would be extremely surprised to see them stick a 6 in the Celica.

why not?... its not the first time they threw it in a coupe over there, plus its FWD

Originally posted by Sportivo Concepts
why not?... its not the first time they threw it in a coupe over there, plus its FWD

fwd? Do you mean rwd? No auto manufacturer is going to try and stick 300hp in a fwd car. Also, I think you meant 278hp, not 378hp. But I still do not thinkt hey will do that. I thinkt he Celica with stay 4 cyl powered and I think anything in the 300hp range will probably be whatever Toyota comes out with to combat the 350z, RX8, etc.

That would be cool if they put the 1JZ in the celica, but it'd have to be AWD/RWD. who's gonna buy a 250+ HP FWD car?:lol:

Originally posted by Sportivo Concepts
why not?... its not the first time they threw it in a coupe over there, plus its FWD

I think that's the point, straight sixes and front wheel drive historically don't mix. Even for Toyota. In fact, FF really hurt I6 development. It would be a tight fit mounted traversely. Even at 2.5 liters.

Now if you had said V6, that would sound more plausible, although I agree with the other posters that it would certainly derail the Celica legacy.

- John

Originally posted by Talisman18
fwd? Do you mean rwd? No auto manufacturer is going to try and stick 300hp in a fwd car. Also, I think you meant 278hp, not 378hp. But I still do not thinkt hey will do that. I thinkt he Celica with stay 4 cyl powered and I think anything in the 300hp range will probably be whatever Toyota comes out with to combat the 350z, RX8, etc.

No I mean FWD..... same goes alot of their other cars,
Okay I stand corrected, torque is 378 at 2,400rpm with it producing little over 200hp at 6200rpm.

But believe it or not Toyota has alot of FWD drive cars that at pushing 200-300hps.

The 1J is a very important engine to toyota and while it may not seem plausable it is possible.

there are other engines that they may use but word has it they are thinking about putting a 6 in it.

They may offer stagger enigne options with 2 4cyl and 1 6 or 1 4cy and 2 6cyls....

Originally posted by Sportivo Concepts
No I mean FWD..... same goes alot of their other cars,
Okay I stand corrected, torque is 378 at 2,400rpm with it producing little over 200hp at 6200rpm.

But believe it or not Toyota has alot of FWD drive cars that at pushing 200-300hps.

The 1J is a very important engine to toyota and while it may not seem plausable it is possible.

there are other engines that they may use but word has it they are thinking about putting a 6 in it.

They may offer stagger enigne options with 2 4cyl and 1 6 or 1 4cy and 2 6cyls....

Toyota (and anybody else) is an idiot if they build a fwd car with 378 lb ft torque. Plus there is no possible way that a gasoline engine will make 378 lb ft with only 200 hp and only be a 6 cyl. I mean think about what you just typed? If you really know cars, you know that is not possible.

And Toyota does not have a lot of fwd pushing close to 300 hp. Yes, there are some with 200hp but name a single one(stock) with over 250? That's right, it does not exist. Only retards try and argue that fwd is useful(compared to awd and rwd) when power levels get near the 300hp mark.

How about we reintroduce a new supra :) Kinda like the volta but awd with a nice engine. Im thinking that would work just nicely!

Originally posted by Talisman18
Toyota (and anybody else) is an idiot if they build a fwd car with 378 lb ft torque. Plus there is no possible way that a gasoline engine will make 378 lb ft with only 200 hp and only be a 6 cyl. I mean think about what you just typed? If you really know cars, you know that is not possible.

And Toyota does not have a lot of fwd pushing close to 300 hp. Yes, there are some with 200hp but name a single one(stock) with over 250? That's right, it does not exist. Only retards try and argue that fwd is useful(compared to awd and rwd) when power levels get near the 300hp mark.

Look up the specs of the J-spec Mark II and other Japanese toyotas.... I have the sheet right here in front of me... I know what I wrote and it is not a mistake unless Toyota is printing out the wrong info and giving it to every dealer in the Osaka area.

I'm not trying to sit here and argue that FWD are useful... all I am saying that Toyota has 70+ car under their belt in Japan that they sell currently compared to our dingy 17.. oh wait sorry 14 since they killed the MR, Celica and ECHO.

The same engine used here is gets more hp there, hmm wonder why.... and to answer your question Toyota has had some in the past but just like the Cresta and other non sellingcars its has been scraped... Verossa

Originally posted by Sportivo Concepts
Look up the specs of the J-spec Mark II and other Japanese toyotas.... I have the sheet right here in front of me... I know what I wrote and it is not a mistake unless Toyota is printing out the wrong info and giving it to every dealer in the Osaka area.

I'm not trying to sit here and argue that FWD are useful... all I am saying that Toyota has 70+ car under their belt in Japan that they sell currently compared to our dingy 17.. oh wait sorry 14 since they killed the MR, Celica and ECHO.

The same engine used here is gets more hp there, hmm wonder why.... and to answer your question Toyota has had some in the past but just like the Cresta and other non sellingcars its has been scraped... Verossa

lol. I understand where you are gettign these numbers from. At first I thought you were just talking out your @ss and making stuff up. I mean cuz any real car guy would know that the numbers you were quoting for those engines just isn't possible. But now I see you were just confusing hp with kw's and lb ft. with nm. :lol:

The 1jzgte makes about 276hp and 269 lb ft torque but when converted to kw and nm, it makes 208kw and 362nm of torque. And of course that is exactly how they would measure the output in these "Osaka sheets" you are talking about.

And the Verossa is rwd(just like the Cresta). Like I said, there is no fwd Toyota even remotely close to 300hp and you WILL NOT see the 1jzgte in anything fwd. The only people stupid enough to make 300hp fwd cars is Cadillac and they have since seen the error of their ways.

My moms STS was awesome!!!! That thing would do 60 to like 120 so fucking fast!!

It's not completely unrealistic for Toyota to have a 250hp FWD car, or even a 300+ hp FWD car. Alfa Romeo's 147 GTA puts out 250hp from the factory and a company called AutoDelta brings the v6 from 3.2 to 3.7L to make it have 328hp.

http://www.alfaromeo.co.uk/ALFAROMEO_UK/uploads/PB_MODEL_EDITORIAL/1073910401/20040312/MO_C_02_000_1.jpg

Originally posted by Lyons451
How about we reintroduce a new supra :) Kinda like the volta but awd with a nice engine. Im thinking that would work just nicely!

Supra not coming back... Oh, and a side note, the volta IS awd and has a nice V6 powerplant... plus it runs 0-60 in 4sec.

Now why, when they have a light-weight supercar in the pipeline want to bring back a pig like the supra?

Originally posted by Takeshi_Nakazato
[B]It's not completely unrealistic for Toyota to have a 250hp FWD car, or even a 300+ hp FWD car. Alfa Romeo's 147 GTA puts out 250hp from the factory and a company called AutoDelta brings the v6 from 3.2 to 3.7L to make it have 328hp.


It is unrealistic for 300hp. 250hp isn't but that was never my argument. The only cars that would get close to that would be like the Camry or Avalon or ES since they would be competing with similar 250hp range cars like the TL, Accord, MAxima, Altima, etc. These are overgrown family cars though, not sports cars, so it takes more power to get them moving. And if they do ever start to reach the 300hp range, I guarantee you they will either become rwd or more likely get an awd option(like what is happening to the Acuras). You will not see a fwd "sports car" with that much power though.

The AutoDelta doesn't count, it's a aftermarket company's car. Of course they are going to put silly amounts of power into a fwd car. Performance businesses put lots of power into all their vehicles, no matter what the drivetrain layout is. Manufacturers however, don't.

Originally posted by thespud
Supra not coming back... Oh, and a side note, the volta IS awd and has a nice V6 powerplant... plus it runs 0-60 in 4sec.

Now why, when they have a light-weight supercar in the pipeline want to bring back a pig like the supra?

a 6 cyl car mated with a electric engine. the volta is a hybrid car. the electric engine is supposed to power the back wheels or something. that would be interesting because electric engines make HUGE amounts of torque.

both electrics power the front wheels independently, the rears are powered by a 3mz-based engine.


that's kinda scary though, i mean what if one electric motor died, but the other was still working, that'd be really tough to control

I know its a hybrid... it was just out of selection of detail that i left out the electric part.

Just for info tho, all four paws are controlled by both electric and mechanical means, thereby making peak power and tourque outstanding. The four wheels are individually controlled by Electric motors, then driven by the Petrol engine once it hits about 60km/h. Works just like the prius, only with all four wheels and alot more powerful. Also has full drive-by-wire technology, which is interesting.

Originally posted by thespud
Supra not coming back... Oh, and a side note, the volta IS awd and has a nice V6 powerplant... plus it runs 0-60 in 4sec.

Now why, when they have a light-weight supercar in the pipeline want to bring back a pig like the supra?
I know but a car like the supra! A nice new sports car that is rwd or even awd. If the volta got put into production id go nuts. That car is soooo nice. The back looks a little odd though IMO.

doesn't suzuki have a sedan with a transverse mounted inline 6 engine made by porche (though, not made to go fast) called the verona?

the suzuki verona's engine is by porsche?


i thoguht the verona had an I4

from the suzukiauto.com site: "2.5-liter, in-line 6-cylinder, 24-valve DOHC engine
Horsepower: 155 hp @ 5,800 RPM
Torque: 177 lb.-ft. @ 4,000 RPM"

i read that the engine was made by porsche. suzuki needed a 6 cyl engine and asked porsche to make a small one, so porsche slapped together one with no frills.

you're right, i was thinking of the forenza, which is the compact car, the verona is the midsize.


that's pretty sweet

Originally posted by Talisman18
lol. I understand where you are gettign these numbers from. At first I thought you were just talking out your @ss and making stuff up. I mean cuz any real car guy would know that the numbers you were quoting for those engines just isn't possible. But now I see you were just confusing hp with kw's and lb ft. with nm. :lol:

The 1jzgte makes about 276hp and 269 lb ft torque but when converted to kw and nm, it makes 208kw and 362nm of torque. And of course that is exactly how they would measure the output in these "Osaka sheets" you are talking about.

And the Verossa is rwd(just like the Cresta). Like I said, there is no fwd Toyota even remotely close to 300hp and you WILL NOT see the 1jzgte in anything fwd. The only people stupid enough to make 300hp fwd cars is Cadillac and they have since seen the error of their ways.

:owned: