Rant from a Toyota Tech

/rant on

Well it happened again Saturday, its almost a common occurance, and its something that I wish people would become educated on. I received a work order that read “Customer states rattle from sunroof area, per customer TSB cover this problem”.

I have been a Toyota technician since April of 1991 but it just amazes me that someone can sit down and read something on the internet and automatically think they know more than I do. Just because you read that there is a TSB out for your vehicle DOES NOT mean it automatically applies to your vehicle. In fact out of all the work orders I receive where the CUSTOMER SAYS the sunroof TSB applies, the TSB actually fixed maby 1 out of 4 of these vehicles. I so wish that you guys would just go and tell the service advisor what your problem actually is and let ME THE TECHNICIAN decide if there is a TSB for your problem or if its something else, FORGET THE TSB’S YOU HAVE READ AND DO NOT EVEN MENTION IT.

Here is where the problem comes in:

Service Advisor’s Job - A good service advisor puts all the information you tell them into the work order for your vehicle, if you mention a TSB they put it in that you mentioned the TSB.

Warranty Administrator’s Job – A warranty administrator’s job is to get me paid (YES I DO THIS FOR A LIVING). Now a warranty administrator also ensures that I don’t screw warranty by doing extra stuff.

The problem – The service advisor puts on the ticket that the problem you have is the TSB because you told him it was, now that mean’s I am going to get paid 0 diagnosis time. So if you all knowing TSB readers say your problem is the TSB, all I am getting paid to do is pull your vehicle in and perform that 1 repair and pull your vehicle out. So if your LUCKY maby the TSB did apply to your vehicle, but if it was any of the other COMMON rattle areas in your vehicle your screwed, your vehicle did not get fixed. And the reason it did not get fixed???????????????????????? BECAUSE YOU ALL KNOWING PEOPLE SAID FOR YOURSELF THAT THE TSB APPLIED TO YOUR VEHICLE, YOU SELF DIAGNOSED THE PROBLEM FOR ME, I AM NOT GOING TO GET PAID DIAGNOSIS TIME TO FIND THE RATTLE ON YOUR VEHICLE BECAUSE IN THE WARRANTY ADMINISTRATORS EYES YOU TOLD ME WHAT IT WAS. Now after the repair when I test drive your vehicle to verify that the sunroof is not POPING the way the TSB covers Im done. If I hear the ticking from the sunroof garnish’s or the rattle from the sunroof controls, tough shit, its not getting fixed because YOU SAID THE PROBLEM WAS THE SUNROOF POP AS DESCRIBED IN THE TSB.

Ok, /rant off now. Where this whole post is comeing from is when I was leaveing work Saturday the same guy I was describeing above was calling me an idiot and incompitent technician for not fixing his car. Well buddy when I finished with your vehicle and drove it I heard the sunroof garnish rattle and figured it was probably what you were hearing, but due to your all knowing TSB knowledge I was not going to get paid for repairing it, because the warranty lady would consider it an add on repair. If you would of just simply told the advisor the vehicle was rattleing and pointed out the exact location of the noise your vehicle would have been fixed. You doomed yourself for being a TSB expert.

And its not just him, you internet trolls who try to self diagnose your vehicle cause your own headaches. Just tell me what your problem is, not what you think the cause is, I make my living by doing this. If you self diagnose a TSB that only pays .7 hours there is no way in hell I am going to spend 3 hours fixing the REAL problem and still only get paid .7. But if you would of just simply pointed out your problem your car would have been fixed right the first time.

And on a side note. The Scion Tc’s have more rattles than a coffee can full of rocks, they will never be completely quiet. They have almost no sound deadening material in them, for god sakes the headliner is held up with industrial strength Velcro. If you’re the kind of person that can hear a squirrel fart at 100 yards then Im sorry but you might as well just accept that your Tc is going to make noise, expecially with the sunroof sunshade open.

I feel your pain man. I've been working at a shop every summer for easy money and I hear this all the time. The Service Advisors and the Customer duking it out with the techie over a problem the customer tried to diagnose. Then the customer wonders why the problem wasen't fixed when it's obvious they didn't know what to look or hear for. So yeah it's annoying people should juts stop trying. If you don't know what you're doing stop trying to fake it. Had a moron in there once saying that one of his timing belts was making funny noises or something. But as it ended up the amatuer tried to change his own spark plugs and did it crooked, so when he took it out metal shards went into his engine :disappoin . So in the end from all those lovely metal pieces flying through his engine tearing everything apart, he needed a new engine. So the technican wasen't dissapointed in the end when he got paid 20+ hours to do an engine replacement that could have been saved if the moron took it to the shop instead of trying to be something he's not :D .

my 2 cents :)

I understand what you guys are saying. I use these forums to give me an idea of what is wrong-not to self diagnose. Being a woman and blonde, I have been taken on a ride by a few mechanics. My cam was stalling after driving it over 40 mph. I researched the problem and it sounded like and egr valve. I went to the shop-didn't mention what I reasearched and the morons did over $900 worth of work and still couldn't fix it. I was a moron too for not saying- 'Could it be the egr valve?'
Now I go into the shops with a little bit of knowlege. I mention that it sounds like such-and-such, and I also know what the problem could be, so when my car has a problem, I can tell if I am going to be taken for a ride.

IMHO, The original post should be a Sticky, or should be put
below the TSB sticky if there is one


Tim Plessing
Columbia, MD

1990 celica turbo alltrac - grey/grey cloth - 123K - For sale
1990 celica turbo alltrac - blue/blue cloth - 152K - Under restoration
1993 MR2 turbo - SMG/black leather - 138K - SOLD
1993 MR2 turbo - blue/black leather - 57K
2005 Scion Tc - On order

Just a thought.

Perhaps it's in the best interest of everyone that if a Customer comes in quoting a TSB that the Service Advisor provide some indication of the impact of their statement. Service Advisors are not supposed to just blindly accept and type in a customer's complaint. They're supposed to probe a bit deeper. Ask questions like: Does the rattle happen at certain RPM's? When the sunroof is open or closed? When does it not rattle? etc etc. Service Advisors are supposed to have some basic diagnostic skills and know how to deal with people.

As a Toyota customer, if I spouted off some TSB# and the Service Advisor told me that "if you quote the TSB, then they don't do any diagnostics...they just go and fix the area covered by the TSB and that might not fix your problem"....then I might think twice about including the TSB on the service order. I hate having to go back multiple times for the same problem. So does the dealer and Toyota.

It's all about appropriate levels of communication. Not usage of the TSB. Most customers have no clue about the internal Toyota Warranty claims process and what it means to them. That's where the Service Advisor's strength is.

Rolla that is a good post and Ill give you credit for a good point. However I will not supply a responce because I have never worked the service drive and I do not know what it is like to deal with the customer all day. Maby if there is an advisor / manager that reads this forum they can answer. However I do not think it is just our 4 advisors that are this way. I have friends that work at 3 other seperate dealerships (Acura / Lexus / Honda) and they say thier advisors do the same thing.

hey, can you guys help me with an issue with my gen5 since you all work in the shop? i've had this fixed before, but it is occuring again. whenever i close my sunroof / moonroof it doesn't align correctly and eventually it closes too far and there is a gap because the glass is lower than the roof of the car. do you know what causes this? is there a problem with the alignment?

thanks all.

It's definitely food for thought. I can't remember if Toyota Canada trains their Service Advisors (I'd be willing to bet they do) but I'll check tomorrow with the people who "train". ;)

I just can't imagine that TMC would put up with it considering it ends up costing the Corp more money and ticking off customers. But then what do I know, being a cog in a different wheel. :D

Originally posted by wujo
hey, can you guys help me with an issue with my gen5 since you all work in the shop? i've had this fixed before, but it is occuring again. whenever i close my sunroof / moonroof it doesn't align correctly and eventually it closes too far and there is a gap because the glass is lower than the roof of the car. do you know what causes this? is there a problem with the alignment?

thanks all.

Gen5? Is that a Scion? Sounds like you're talking about a Celica.
Visit the dealer for quick inspection to see if something is actually wrong. If it is, they can fix it.

Be a little bit more descriptive. How im reading your problem is that your sunroof will close properly at first then work its way down, as in the back in tilts down like it is slideing back a mm or so.

I very rarely see an actual mechanical problem with the sunroof frame / mechanism / motors, however I occasionally have to reinitialize some of them so the vehicle can relearn the sunroof operation.

What I "think" might be happening is this -- The sunroof closes but the motor is pushing the glass a tab bit too far forward putting strain on the motor / frame and eventually the motor / frame gives up and releases this strain.

If you have say a 2002 or newer modle Id first suggest reinitalizeing the motor, it is easy to do. The process varies sometimes but most are the same, Try the process im gonna outline below and if you can not get it to go, post your exact model and ill make sure im telling you the correct process.

1. fully open your sunroof.

2. press and hold the close button untill the sunroof is completely closed and release the button.

3. Within 5 seconds of step 2 press and hold the button to put it in tilt positin and release the button

4. Within 5 seconds press and hold the close button untill the sunroof closes itself, then the sunroof will completely open itself, then it will completely close itself, once the sunroof is completely closed you are done. make sure you are holding teh closed position the entire time of this step. Sometimes it takes 30 seconds or so for the sunroof to respond and start moveing.

What this is going to do is allow the vehicle to "see" the fully open and fully closed travel limit of the sunroof.


Oh, almost forgot. before you do this open up your sunroof and look at the tracks and make sure they are clean. Naturally you will have some road dirt there but make sure there is nothing excessive. If there is wipe it off and go buy a small tube of lithium / white / silicone grease and apply a LIGHT layer back to the tracking.

If you do go buy grease and you have a Honda dealer near by, they cary a grease called "shinitzu" grease that I swear by. Shinitzu is very multipurpose and also works extreamly well for lubricating body seals / weatherstrips.

I'm about 90% sure hes talking about a camry.

yap, it's a camry gen5. sorry, i thought that this was the camry section....my bad.

what is happening is when i close the sunroof, it closes "too" much. the front end is fine, but the backend seems lower than the front...so there's a gap in the back....toward the trunk.

i tried what you suggested but am having issues with this part

Within 5 seconds press and hold the close button untill the sunroof closes itself, then the sunroof will completely open itself, then it will completely close itself, once the sunroof is completely closed you are done. make sure you are holding teh closed position the entire time of this step. Sometimes it takes 30 seconds or so for the sunroof to respond and start moveing

i hold the close button to close it and hold it down, but the roof doesn't react besides just closing it...it doesn't open back up like it would if i hit the button again.

am i don't this correctly?

thanks all for the help.

what is the year?

Well if you people would more consistantly do your job, then we would be more inclined to accomidate you.

I trust one Toyota dept. for repairs and advice, and two parts counters.
*rant off*

Toyota_Tech_01,

I understand your frustration with people thinking that they know what is wrong with their vehicle. However, I would assume that this is part of everyones job. I deal with this at my job and so do other people. If you don't want to deal with stupid people, I suggest that you become unemployed because there are stupid people whereever you go and they will be there in whatever you do. My advise is to get over it. I understand the rant, but all in all, it will not help anything and you will still end up with people doing the same thing to you. That is just the nature of your work. Sorry to say it, but we all deal with it. Have a good one.

hey! i got it to work this morning! thanks for all your help guys. it's an 03. (= (= (=

You got the "zero point initialization" to work, cool. Keep that handy, I dunno just exactally what happens but Id say I probably reset 1 sunroof a month for opening / closeing / misalignment problems.

Originally posted by rolla-XRS
Just a thought.

Perhaps it's in the best interest of everyone that if a Customer comes in quoting a TSB that the Service Advisor provide some indication of the impact of their statement. Service Advisors are not supposed to just blindly accept and type in a customer's complaint. They're supposed to probe a bit deeper. Ask questions like: Does the rattle happen at certain RPM's? When the sunroof is open or closed? When does it not rattle? etc etc. Service Advisors are supposed to have some basic diagnostic skills and know how to deal with people.

As a Toyota customer, if I spouted off some TSB# and the Service Advisor told me that "if you quote the TSB, then they don't do any diagnostics...they just go and fix the area covered by the TSB and that might not fix your problem"....then I might think twice about including the TSB on the service order. I hate having to go back multiple times for the same problem. So does the dealer and Toyota.

It's all about appropriate levels of communication. Not usage of the TSB. Most customers have no clue about the internal Toyota Warranty claims process and what it means to them. That's where the Service Advisor's strength is. I agree with you; it's a communication issue. The average customer is completely clueless not only on their car but also on protocol in dealing with service people (and it's the "service people"'s job to educate the rest of the world on said protocol). Being clueless brings about distrust for obvious reasons. Couple that with the situation that is so common it's a cliche': "that mechanic took you for a ride" and what do you expect from people?

What they're trying to do is get their car fixed for free obviously. Some because they're selfish pricks and some because they believe they're entitled to it. With Scions in particular being new models, problems are to be expected. Those problems, if they're common enough to warrant a TSB, should be fixed for no charge regardless of diagnosis time (IMO). (Assuming I have the function of TSB's correct.)

From the customer's perspective:
It's widely circulated that if you DON'T mention a TSB, you'll often be charged for something that you shouldn't have been. So, right off the bat, they're trying to not be "taken for a ride" for their ignorance. Again, perhaps someone needs to communicate more with the customers? And, if that's the case, perhaps someone needs to be directing their rant at the employees that deal directly with the customers?

In addition, some are simply trying to be POLITE in mentioning the TSB. Another circulated piece of info is that some techs/whatever don't know of the existence of certain TSB's, so in order to save everyone some time, a customer may mention that a certain TSB may apply. At least they've looked into it.

The sad thing here is: I, like many people, only know what a TSB is from reading forums on the internet. They were never discussed with me when I purchased my car. It wasn't passed down in some great oral tradition by my parents. I had to read about it on some forum dedicated to my car, and I know quite a few people are in the same boat. So, it's only natural that these things be misused. If it's such a hassle to techs, they should complain to the powers that be and press for a more open disclosure to the customer as to what a TSB is and how its report is handled by the service department.

I feel for you; I really do. As was said by another poster: get used to "stupid" people. I use "stupid" because, lets face it, it's not an issue of stupidity really, it's one of ignorance and yes that's different. I'm a programmer. I deal with computer related ignorance every day. Does that mean that those people are stupid? No. It's just not their area of expertise. I was a certified pharmacy technician while preparing for pharmacy college. Same concept applied at that job to things like rx insurance and pharmacology. Were there ignorant questions asked? Sure. But very few of the people asking them were truly stupid. They were simply in a position of being vulnerable due to their ignorance of the topic at hand.

sorry for my ignorance, but what the heck is a TSB?!?! and while you're at it, please tell me what the heck JDM is too

TSB=Technical Service Bulliten. (I think)

JDM=Japanese Domestic Market

I thought these cars were japanese imports.....hmmm. Where have I been? Thanks for the info camnub

No, Its just stuff that is on the japanese car market. So the cars direct from Japan are JDM, the parts, i think you got the point. ;)

Hey yall, I just stumbled across this thread and I happen to be a service writer of a few years. I can feel your pain toyo tech, but it is not your customers fault, it's your writers fault. If your writer is letting your customers diagnose the problems then he or she is not doing their job properly. As a owner of a car I would want to be as informed as possible, so you cant blame these people for trying to get as much info as they can. However it is the writers job to translate the customers info into plausible mechanical
complaints or concerns, not to just take the customers word for it. An example of an idiot customer is : my car is shaking when i go down the hwy, can you check the alignment. Any good service advisor would inform the cust that it's the balance and not the alignment that is causing his vibration. Your advisor should also try to confirm the complaint instead of just taking orders and writing a repair order.

As a service advisor I know it can be very hard to deal with assholes and morons all day. But if you do your job correctly then you deal with them less and make more money and everybody is happy.

When your advisors just assume the customer knows what they are talking about it pisses the customer off and it costs you money.

Maybe you should talk to your manager or shop foreman and let em know that your advisors suck ass. It takes a certain skill to be able to take a customers complaint or concern and translate it the tech so you can fix the problem right the first time. If your advisors dont have this skill then they should do some more training.

As long as your writers are letting your customers diagnose their own problems, they might as well let em turn the wrenches.

So if your LUCKY maby the TSB did apply to your vehicle, but if it was any of the other COMMON rattle areas in your vehicle your screwed, your vehicle did not get fixed. And the reason it did not get fixed???????????????????????? BECAUSE YOU ALL KNOWING PEOPLE SAID FOR YOURSELF THAT THE TSB APPLIED TO YOUR VEHICLE, YOU SELF DIAGNOSED THE PROBLEM FOR ME, I AM NOT GOING TO GET PAID DIAGNOSIS TIME TO FIND THE RATTLE ON YOUR VEHICLE BECAUSE IN THE WARRANTY ADMINISTRATORS EYES YOU TOLD ME WHAT IT WAS. Now after the repair when I test drive your vehicle to verify that the sunroof is not POPING the way the TSB covers Im done. If I hear the ticking from the sunroof garnish’s or the rattle from the sunroof controls, tough shit, its not getting fixed because YOU SAID THE PROBLEM WAS THE SUNROOF POP AS DESCRIBED IN THE TSB. "tough shit?" That's nice.

So, basically this poor customers will have to return to get the job done correctly when it could have been done right on the first visit. Basically, the author of this thread, doesn't care about customer service or the satisfaction of doing a job correctly. He cares about money. That's just poor service. Keep in mind that these "stupid customers" keep you employed. I don't blame the customer at all. Think about this... The guy buys a new car and it has rattles. Now he has a lack of trust in the company, so, he decides to do a little research of his own. Finds a TSB that sounds like it could correct his problem. He goes in for service and mentions it to the guy at the counter. Why? Maybe he has had a bad experience prior and doen't want something like a TSB to be overlooked. It happens. Who among us has went in with a problem an left with the same problem? He doesn't know or care how the mechanic is paid or that based on what he says will affect how the mechanic is paid. Afterall, he is the customer and he did describe the whole problem. Maybe the author of this thread should complain to the service writer and not the customers. When the dissatisfied customer returns he will have to deal with the same serivce writer. The service writer will undoubtedly blame the mechanic for not fixing the problem to begin with. The author of this post will give himself, his dealership and Toyota a bad reputation. Think of those surveys you get in the mail that ask you to rate the service (you know the ones...the dealership begs you to indicate that they gave excellant service). This guy will certainly explain on his that he had to make mutliple visits to get a problem corrected. It is just bad business. If you don't like the way you get paid you should take that up with your employer. You shouldn't complain about the customers.

Haa21,

Totally agree with you. You make good points. If someone does not like the way they get paid, either take it up with your employer, or find another job that pays you the way you want to be paid. Don't blame the customer, that was trying to be helpful in the first place, about you not fixing the problem the first time correctly. I got the survey that you are talking about and promptly called the number on the card to complain in person about the issues that I have with rattles. What did they do? They got me in the next day. They did not get it fixed that day, so I kept taking it in for them to try again. Everytime I got a rental car. Each time I became more dissatisfied with the service department because they could not fix a simple rattle problem. What happens to people that bring their car in for major engine work. Does it take more than one trip to fix that too. Should take one trip, no matter what. If you know it is still rattling, or if the problem was not fixed, the car should be kept until it is properly fixed, no matter what the customer says the problem is in the beginning.

Originally posted by toyota_tech_01
/rant on

Well it happened again Saturday, its almost a common occurance, and its something that I wish people would become educated on. I received a work order that read “Customer states rattle from sunroof area, per customer TSB cover this problem”.

I have been a Toyota technician since April of 1991 but it just amazes me that someone can sit down and read something on the internet and automatically think they know more than I do. Just because you read that there is a TSB out for your vehicle DOES NOT mean it automatically applies to your vehicle. In fact out of all the work orders I receive where the CUSTOMER SAYS the sunroof TSB applies, the TSB actually fixed maby 1 out of 4 of these vehicles. I so wish that you guys would just go and tell the service advisor what your problem actually is and let ME THE TECHNICIAN decide if there is a TSB for your problem or if its something else, FORGET THE TSB’S YOU HAVE READ AND DO NOT EVEN MENTION IT.

Here is where the problem comes in:

Service Advisor’s Job - A good service advisor puts all the information you tell them into the work order for your vehicle, if you mention a TSB they put it in that you mentioned the TSB.

Warranty Administrator’s Job – A warranty administrator’s job is to get me paid (YES I DO THIS FOR A LIVING). Now a warranty administrator also ensures that I don’t screw warranty by doing extra stuff.

The problem – The service advisor puts on the ticket that the problem you have is the TSB because you told him it was, now that mean’s I am going to get paid 0 diagnosis time. So if you all knowing TSB readers say your problem is the TSB, all I am getting paid to do is pull your vehicle in and perform that 1 repair and pull your vehicle out. So if your LUCKY maby the TSB did apply to your vehicle, but if it was any of the other COMMON rattle areas in your vehicle your screwed, your vehicle did not get fixed. And the reason it did not get fixed???????????????????????? BECAUSE YOU ALL KNOWING PEOPLE SAID FOR YOURSELF THAT THE TSB APPLIED TO YOUR VEHICLE, YOU SELF DIAGNOSED THE PROBLEM FOR ME, I AM NOT GOING TO GET PAID DIAGNOSIS TIME TO FIND THE RATTLE ON YOUR VEHICLE BECAUSE IN THE WARRANTY ADMINISTRATORS EYES YOU TOLD ME WHAT IT WAS. Now after the repair when I test drive your vehicle to verify that the sunroof is not POPING the way the TSB covers Im done. If I hear the ticking from the sunroof garnish’s or the rattle from the sunroof controls, tough shit, its not getting fixed because YOU SAID THE PROBLEM WAS THE SUNROOF POP AS DESCRIBED IN THE TSB.

Ok, /rant off now. Where this whole post is comeing from is when I was leaveing work Saturday the same guy I was describeing above was calling me an idiot and incompitent technician for not fixing his car. Well buddy when I finished with your vehicle and drove it I heard the sunroof garnish rattle and figured it was probably what you were hearing, but due to your all knowing TSB knowledge I was not going to get paid for repairing it, because the warranty lady would consider it an add on repair. If you would of just simply told the advisor the vehicle was rattleing and pointed out the exact location of the noise your vehicle would have been fixed. You doomed yourself for being a TSB expert.

And its not just him, you internet trolls who try to self diagnose your vehicle cause your own headaches. Just tell me what your problem is, not what you think the cause is, I make my living by doing this. If you self diagnose a TSB that only pays .7 hours there is no way in hell I am going to spend 3 hours fixing the REAL problem and still only get paid .7. But if you would of just simply pointed out your problem your car would have been fixed right the first time.

And on a side note. The Scion Tc’s have more rattles than a coffee can full of rocks, they will never be completely quiet. They have almost no sound deadening material in them, for god sakes the headliner is held up with industrial strength Velcro. If you’re the kind of person that can hear a squirrel fart at 100 yards then Im sorry but you might as well just accept that your Tc is going to make noise, expecially with the sunroof sunshade open.

Dude.. are you f*cking serious? You posted this and you still hold a job at Toyota? You're lucky that the dealership hasn't seen this post..

And before you get all huffy about it.. I own a performance shop, and have been working on domestic and import vehicles for almost 10 years... doing things FAR more complicated than fixing sunroof rattles.

What right do you have to come on this website and b*tch at Toyota customers? You don't get paid to talk to car owners.. you get paid to fix cars. By posting this.. you are putting a stain on Toyota techs and dealerships.. because of your piss-poor attitude. This isn't an issue that you should be complaining about on a public forum. This is an issue that you should take up with your Service Advisor and management at your dealership. It's ridiculous for you to come on here and b*tch customers out because they mentioned that they saw a TSB for a problem. To them, they probably think that they are helping. And then, get chewed out for it.. because of some inadequate management in your service department. That's BS man... You fix the TSB.. Take the car out, and the problem is still there? You tell the service advisor that the problem was not TSB related. It shouldn't be an issue of whether or not you get paid for other work performed. That is business between you and your service advisor.. and NOT a paying customer who's spent 15, 20.. maybe 30K on a brand new car. I know one thing.. If a tech or ANYONE at a dealership treated me that way after spending that kind of money... we would definately have a problem.

I didn't even belong to this site either... This thread is going around the internet.. and I found it on a forum that I post on. I was so shocked at what I read.. I had to post something.

So, my advice to you.. is to take this crap up with your service department.. and not with the people on this site.. who payed good money. Those same people also keep you employed. And if I were you.. I'd see about taking your post down.. and getting this thread deleted.. because if it's going around the net.. sooner or later.. it's going to get enough attention, that someone higher up than you in your dealership is going to see it or hear about it. I have a friend who worked at a dealership.. who sorta did the same thing.. and he lost his job over it. Not very smart..

Travis Burelle

I have a hard time not giving suggestions. I know this is wrong, even if it's not under warranty. If you tell a mechanic how to fix the problem, they'll have no problem doing what you said for the $$ then having you come back later to get the real cause fixed. The warranty work is more complicated. So, I describe the problem and mention that I heard there's TSB's that might address the problem. I don't state "it's this TSB" but I do try and find out if they are aware of the TSB so that if it IS such they don't waste their time and my time trying to fix something that's been defined. (reinvent the wheel). My only instance of this for real was the gas tank TSB's so that was pretty cut and dry.


It's also cool if your service manager dude is smart enough to fish around for other work. "So, are there any other concerns or rattles?" That way, if it's a slow day they can spend the time you can afford to fix everything you mention. I appreciate this as well because I've only gone in for what I consider unbearable problems (see gas filler TSB :) ) but come out with a bunch of annoyances also fixed.

haha, is necrothread day?

Been a seriously interesting read. I think many good arguements were made. From one standpoint i can see from the eye's of the tech. Why should i bust my balls for no reason? Why should i spend more time when i am not getting paid more? If u were flipping burgers would you work for an extra hour with no pay? Most likely not, you would be like F____ This!. No one is this country believes in going the extra mile anymore. Unless you are the boss and have a reason to go the extra mile. People are going to work for what they are paid for and go on. I think the tech has every reason to rant. It is a rant right? Rants are a little sections of a thread where i can bitch about whatever i want? Stain or no Stain attitude or no attitude, everyone is entitled to complain about the customers that they have to face. I manage a fast food place, chinese one at the that. we get shitty customers all day who tell us how to cook our food, tell us how the dont' like it, how they think we should cook, and countless other compaints of no real reason. I keep at straight face to the customers and tell em flat out how it is gonna be. If you don't like it tough, i can't guarantee you'll like everything on the menu. Then they yell and scream at me, occasionaly throw shit at me. I keep smiling being professional, and then i hit the kitchen door, and i put seasoned sailors to shame. As long as the attitude and actions are not aimed at the customers all is good. Every profession has their complaints and need a place to vent. The internet is a very good place to vent, i can't see you you can't see me, I post something you dont' like tough, you reply and i reply back, makes a good place for productive discussion or arguments.

Mr. Burelle: Since you own a "performance"shop, i don't think you are exposed to the masses like the toyota tech is. U dont' have idiots who know nothing about cars and are fickle like the wind. Bringing in every TSB under the same. actually you probably dont' even honor TSB and/or people don't bring them to you. Not agreeing or disagreeing with you but i think he has the right to rant as much as he wants. as long as it is not at a customer. The problem of situation lies with the company as a whole. There is a problem with the levels of managment and letting the voices of the peon be heard.

/rant on

Well it happened again Saturday, its almost a common occurance, and its something that I wish people would become educated on. I received a work order that read “Customer states rattle from sunroof area, per customer TSB cover this problem”.

I have been a Toyota technician since April of 1991 but it just amazes me that someone can sit down and read something on the internet and automatically think they know more than I do. Just because you read that there is a TSB out for your vehicle DOES NOT mean it automatically applies to your vehicle. In fact out of all the work orders I receive where the CUSTOMER SAYS the sunroof TSB applies, the TSB actually fixed maby 1 out of 4 of these vehicles. I so wish that you guys would just go and tell the service advisor what your problem actually is and let ME THE TECHNICIAN decide if there is a TSB for your problem or if its something else, FORGET THE TSB’S YOU HAVE READ AND DO NOT EVEN MENTION IT.

Here is where the problem comes in:

Service Advisor’s Job - A good service advisor puts all the information you tell them into the work order for your vehicle, if you mention a TSB they put it in that you mentioned the TSB.

Warranty Administrator’s Job – A warranty administrator’s job is to get me paid (YES I DO THIS FOR A LIVING). Now a warranty administrator also ensures that I don’t screw warranty by doing extra stuff.

The problem – The service advisor puts on the ticket that the problem you have is the TSB because you told him it was, now that mean’s I am going to get paid 0 diagnosis time. So if you all knowing TSB readers say your problem is the TSB, all I am getting paid to do is pull your vehicle in and perform that 1 repair and pull your vehicle out. So if your LUCKY maby the TSB did apply to your vehicle, but if it was any of the other COMMON rattle areas in your vehicle your screwed, your vehicle did not get fixed. And the reason it did not get fixed???????????????????????? BECAUSE YOU ALL KNOWING PEOPLE SAID FOR YOURSELF THAT THE TSB APPLIED TO YOUR VEHICLE, YOU SELF DIAGNOSED THE PROBLEM FOR ME, I AM NOT GOING TO GET PAID DIAGNOSIS TIME TO FIND THE RATTLE ON YOUR VEHICLE BECAUSE IN THE WARRANTY ADMINISTRATORS EYES YOU TOLD ME WHAT IT WAS. Now after the repair when I test drive your vehicle to verify that the sunroof is not POPING the way the TSB covers Im done. If I hear the ticking from the sunroof garnish’s or the rattle from the sunroof controls, tough shit, its not getting fixed because YOU SAID THE PROBLEM WAS THE SUNROOF POP AS DESCRIBED IN THE TSB.

Ok, /rant off now. Where this whole post is comeing from is when I was leaveing work Saturday the same guy I was describeing above was calling me an idiot and incompitent technician for not fixing his car. Well buddy when I finished with your vehicle and drove it I heard the sunroof garnish rattle and figured it was probably what you were hearing, but due to your all knowing TSB knowledge I was not going to get paid for repairing it, because the warranty lady would consider it an add on repair. If you would of just simply told the advisor the vehicle was rattleing and pointed out the exact location of the noise your vehicle would have been fixed. You doomed yourself for being a TSB expert.

And its not just him, you internet trolls who try to self diagnose your vehicle cause your own headaches. Just tell me what your problem is, not what you think the cause is, I make my living by doing this. If you self diagnose a TSB that only pays .7 hours there is no way in hell I am going to spend 3 hours fixing the REAL problem and still only get paid .7. But if you would of just simply pointed out your problem your car would have been fixed right the first time.

And on a side note. The Scion Tc’s have more rattles than a coffee can full of rocks, they will never be completely quiet. They have almost no sound deadening material in them, for god sakes the headliner is held up with industrial strength Velcro. If you’re the kind of person that can hear a squirrel fart at 100 yards then Im sorry but you might as well just accept that your Tc is going to make noise, expecially with the sunroof sunshade open.


most "technicians" act like this. this is why i dont take my vehicles to the stealership if i can help it

You guys are funny. I can see exectly what the tech is saying and listening to some of the posted responses.....sounds like some of you are exectly what he is talking about.

Haa21....Would you be willing to work 8 hours and only get paid for 4? He's posted plain and simple what happens and he's not telling lies. If he finds another issue, he will not get paid for it, HOWEVER it is the responsibility of the advisor to add aditional lines to the Repair Order so that the tech can get paid for additional work. Sounds to me like bad writers at the dealership rather then bad techs.

Tech_01....You need to have a talk with your service manager about how R.O's should be handled. If you see another issue with the car besides the one being complained about, if the car is under warranty, get it taken care of. Add a line and do the work. It's called upselling and you make more money that way.

And for the record......Just because there is a TSB on a vehicle, it doesn't mean it's covered under warranty. Most TSB's still only cover parts either under the powertrain or the 3yr-36,000 mi warranties. If your car has an applicable TSB, it's not a recall. Don't expect that you have the same problem. Let the dealer diagnose it.

Tech-01 It sounds like you work for a dealership with a lot of issues, one being a lack of training in communication all around. The other being people skills with your customers.

Just my 2 cents.....................

P.S. WOW this is an old thread.......we really dug this one up!

dc