"The Big 3"

i notice alot of you guy have more mod on there system than engine. one of the problem alot of pple face is not enough power or headlight dimming. Buying a capasitor would help out with the dimming but if a more cheaper and inexpensive way to go about this is to upgrade your wires.

The Big 3 are
1) alternator positive to battery positive
2) battery negative to frame
3) engine block to frame

here some pic of a completed upgrade
http://24.247.234.241:880/big3/MVC-001F.JPG

http://24.247.234.241:880/big3/MVC-002F.JPG

http://24.247.234.241:880/big3/MVC-003F.JPG
[/list]

I have a bit of a question....

My car's lights don't dim or anything even when I turn upo my system, or as people were talking about before about slowing windows and stuff when they try to put up all their windows at the same time....so why does it happen to some, and not others? aren't the cars of the same model made with the same parts...the same capacitors, same alternators, and same wiring?

just curious....and glad that mine is fine... :-?

Car's with aftermarket stereo components are the ones who have problems with dimming. Most cars from the manufacturer don't have amplifiers which pull large amounts of power from the battery to pound a sub over and over. Once you add an amp, you should ground your alternator, add a fuse block, and if its a big amp, use a cap. (also use thick guage wire to get teh most out of the setup) If you have an aftermarket setup and you still dont get dimming, its because your amp is not drawing large amounts of power. Which means you suck. :)

The capacitors being spoke of here, are not regular caps. They are made for stereo aplications, and store large amounts of power for the amp to feed off of, which lets your battery do its own thing. Sometimes its good to buy a dry-cell battery for your stereo as an extra.

I have a bit of a question....

My car's lights don't dim or anything even when I turn upo my system, or as people were talking about before about slowing windows and stuff when they try to put up all their windows at the same time....so why does it happen to some, and not others? aren't the cars of the same model made with the same parts...the same capacitors, same alternators, and same wiring?

just curious....and glad that mine is fine... :-?

maybe your car was a "monday" car

It has allot to do with the amperage your alt is putting out
Let's say your alt put out 125 amps and your batt is 1000 amps
now if your runnig your all lights drawing let say +/-100 amps this leave you 25 amps to your battery now you hit the power windows, stereo, heater fan ect.. what do you think is going to happen? The numbers aren't exact but you get the Idea. I had the same problem with my sentra and I tried to get a hight output alt and a guy I know who does custom alt rebuilds ect... said a higher alt could fry my comp becasue a sentra is an economy car and doesn't have a voltage regulator to prevent this from happening. He said if it was a luxury car with all the electric bell and whistles I could upgrade. Now another misconception is to get another battery which will help some but not if your drawing more than the alt can put out then its only a matter of time before you ruin a battery.
I also heard if you beef up the ground wire from the alt this helps also.

i know a couple of guys that did this big3 and got great result. but right now im more worry about my indash dvd player! the monitor is mestup. :cry:

i have a question too...who the hell uses a 4 gauge ground and a weak 8 gauge power?.....

also where did you here that biger wires will help dimming?....

actually this post is pretty much all wrong....wires matter in delivery and consistancy but not current and not production. a better wire dosn't make power it conserves it by being more efficent.

some say another battery is the way to go but this is also bullshit because another batter truly only helps the car by storing more juice for situation like idleing and sitting with the engine off.

and as for a cap this wil lnot help you PRODUCE more power it will just boost the amount of energy avalible to your electronics (most commonly your amps) s othey can recive a more consistant charge with a slight increase in burst out put (a batter can't let go of power as fast as a cap)

THE ONLY WAY TO FIX THE DIMMING PROPERLY IS TO WORK ON THE ALTERNATOR.....it is what charges your system and it is what runs your electronics when the car is on NOT THE BATTERY...NOT THE CAP...NOT THE WIRES....only your altenator..all those things are only really acting as your power sourse if your alternator isn't working properly...

ALSO...who uses a mopar battery with GIANT TERMINALS on the negative and only a wrenchon on the positive...seeing that the ground of the stereo is usally not a direct ground to the battery terminal only ONE VERY VERY GOOD ground ing point is really nessary any others should be made DIRECTLY to the frame by placing too many grounds togther you risk gettin a negative loop in the system and causeing distortion.

AS FOR THE BIG THREE....yes these are very inmortant bonds and must be made with strong conections but please...4 gauge...i mean unless you are using an upgraded alternator 4 is a bit over kill dont you think?

and as for price...that terminal alone would be 40 bucks then the wiring would be another 20 and rings or crimps would run you another 10-20 bucks depending if you chose to keep the integraty of you gold fittings so right there you spent 70 bucks which is one step towards one of these babies.....

http://www.mean-green.com/images/altenator.jpg

trust me i have done too many systems and i also do performane stuff and in BOTH CASES there are gains to be found from wiresbut my money is on the alternator 100% of the time when it comes to systems dimming lights

your right a alternator will help a great deal but to get a HO alternator cost alot of $$. but its money well spent. for minor dimming i think i go with the big 3.

have fun oh pointless one...

and by the way green wires do not work better either....

I've upgraded the wire from alternator positive to battery positive, it did a weeny tiny bit of improvement so I wouldn't say it's a definite fix.

So I ended up getting a cap, and now I just got a new battery cuz my old one died.

And yes Martin is right.... alternator is the problem and by upgrading it is the solution, instead of a quick-fix (ie. replacing wires or get a cap).

and you are killing both the battery and the altenator by not upgrading to one that suits your needs...

after i upgraded my battery to the rockford deep cycle and ran 4 gauge instead of 8 it solved most of my problems. When i just had the cap and the old battery the dimming was terrible.The olny time the lights dim now is when i turn the bass boost and volume up on my receiver while at a stop.
The battery is awesome.

Car's with aftermarket stereo components are the ones who have problems with dimming. Most cars from the manufacturer don't have amplifiers which pull large amounts of power from the battery to pound a sub over and over. Once you add an amp, you should ground your alternator, add a fuse block, and if its a big amp, use a cap. (also use thick guage wire to get teh most out of the setup) If you have an aftermarket setup and you still dont get dimming, its because your amp is not drawing large amounts of power. Which means you suck. :)

The capacitors being spoke of here, are not regular caps. They are made for stereo aplications, and store large amounts of power for the amp to feed off of, which lets your battery do its own thing. Sometimes its good to buy a dry-cell battery for your stereo as an extra.


hahaha....that may be true...I know I've got 4 guage cable, so I dunno, that's supposed to help?

and, oh, yeah....the jbl amps were made to pull very little power and still get big results... :thumbup:

but still, thinking either getting another one so that I have one for each sub, or upgrade to a 1000w jbl.....oh, god...that would be....be....orgasmic!!! oh, no, my pants! :lol:

haha....yeah...well...if anybody's ever read up on the jblamps or used one, they'll know what I mean!

i had some RF amp before and those guys thump! but the overheated really fast. that why i decided to go with the alpine with the cooling fans. next stop would be jbl.

yeah, I jbl's keep cool well too....

I've buddy of mine's got a couple of friends who run some hardcore systems with 2 jbl 600s, and I've never heard of them overheating even when they crank it and draw some crazy current thru them....

two words.....liquid cool

Martin, I wasnt insinuating that thicker gauge wire help dimming, I added the thicker guage into the post as a "to get the most out of your system" point. Which I think I clearly stated. You are right in stating that an alternator is the way to go in the beginning. Just wanted to clear that up.

ciao

yo smokey you play skies?

wunderbitch.....you can run a 120 watt amp off 10 gauge no problem but all i see these days is 4 gauge and lower...like at auto tech some jerk off was using "0" gauge for ONE 400 WATT AMP....i mean WTF!!!!

and this post was started to help out people with dimming problems

and i QUOTE
"one of the problem alot of pple face is not enough power or headlight dimming. Buying a capasitor would help out with the dimming but if a more cheaper and inexpensive way to go about this is to upgrade your wires. "

then you say ignorant shit like this
"If you have an aftermarket setup and you still dont get dimming, its because your amp is not drawing large amounts of power. Which means you suck"

dude you havn't hooked up more than 5 or six LOW BUDGET STEREO have you? try this....ZAPCO 150 to a w6 in a sealed box...put that in any car and i promise NO dimming and more pound than two THUMP 12's powered by PYRIMID 500watt amp.

I wasn't even calling you out until you tried to corect this post...
YO FRANKLY ANY ONE THAT TELLS OTHER PEOPLE THAT THIER SET UPS SUCK BETTER KNOW THIER SHIT AND FRANKLY YOU JUST DON'T

(and i have found my next target)

*sniff* thanks, man.....that means my setup doesn't suck just cuz it doens't dim my lights.....*sniff* =*)

but seriously, martin....lightened up a little on these guys....they were just joking, and being ignorant isn't the same as being stupid asses.... :oops:

yo smokey you play skies?
nope, why you ask?

yo smokey you play skies?
nope, why you ask?

your sig is a flag form skies of arcadia its a dream cast game

oh..... i missunderstood. yea i do. thats my favorite game ever! :lol:

great ending like 30 minutes

I have done many large buget custom installs. How bout a near $15000 setup including a "first in Canada" alpine CVA1000 headunit, 7 Crunch DVC 10" in a box behind a seat only 4 inch's deep at the bottom. 3 punch 250.2, blah blah blah, in a 86 silverado lator switching to a custom walkthrough. No I wasnt try'n to say others "sucked" I was just fuckn around. Lightn up bro.

can't wait to get SOA on gamecube. maybe this time i could get with fina. dammit i didn't get her even tho i build my island after her. :lol:

guy you have to pick from the beggining...fina or akia....but you can get either.....hehehe.....

wunder boy...shut up man we all know a homo when we see one and just cause you handed your friend the installer the tools that dosn't mean you did a 15000 dollar job. if you really have all this experience why would you disagree with me anyways....you would know that the alternator , the battery, the caps and the wires all serve thier own purposes and what those purposes are....

Im not arguing with you, nor do I disagree... I was simply saying that you might have misunderstood my initial post.

http://feralliving.surreally.com/archives/loser.jpg

Martin, no wonder other people on here have had things to say to you, your a fuck'n ignorat prick. I was never in this post trying to be an ass, but you dont seam to understand how to be an adult. I take most things for what they are worth, and I can rest assured that you are worth absolutley nothing.

Loser

http://www.southcoast.org/maternity/cry.gif

HAHAHA......go cry in the corner the rest of us don't want to hear it...you gotta see your posts up there trying to say it's good to drain power and that if dimming dosnt occur you cant have a good system
http://www.briansemu.com/sms/games/Wonder%20Boy/wonde_00.gif
guy for real if you think you have more audio knowledge than me then my i suggest you try to post things that are true and can be backed up.....

I HAVE DONE COUNTLESS SYSTEMS....many of them on this forum....my own car has 10 speaker with amps custom wired and mounted not to mention two tv's a PS2 and tones of custom detailing and tuning from bass blockers to noise filters and believe me the wiriing is FLAWLESS and once again this is something that most of the people that have seen my car can't tell you.....i don't know your abilities first hand but as far as i can figure from your writing i think you need to take into account what people are going to assume based on your attidude....and if you think you have some sore of authority then i challenge you to call up fish man audio and ask if they have heard of you....maybe that will bring you back to reality because thier systems often cost more than the cars they put them in and believe me there is NEVER dimming problems...even if they need 5 batteries and 3 alternators with individual caps side mounted to each amp.

i dont know about you man but frankly i think this argument is pointless...read this whole post and try to find where i started trash talking and wwhat i was saying before that....

it was simple....THE BIG THREE IS A MYTH....and won;t help dimming anymore than a cap will (and a cap isn't for dimming either you dummies)

if you want to argue the above point i'll give you a hundred reason that i am right and you are wrong and i'll back up my fact with source refrences and give you the site to go to and people to call that can assure you that you are WRONG...

however if you just want to keep crying like a wunderbitch then pleay go out side and ask the first person you see to kick you in the balls because i have no need to spend my time on the net explaining to you and the rest of the peeps on this board why you deserve a good punting.

try this my friend has 2-JL Audio 13.5" W7's and 2-JL Audio 1000 watt monoblock amps in his celica now thats a drain on the charging system

how about building me a budget system lol

sorry martin but I have to disagree with you, the big 3 helps improve current from the alt to bat to amps. Why put in a 200 amp alt and feed the current throught an oem 8awg wire, you are choking the system, when an amp gets a high current demand the 8 awg wire will not supply the bat, so the bat will eventually drain, the amp will constantly run hot because it is now working twice as hard to maintain voltage. Think of a bucket of water getting fed through a straw or through a hose, the hose is going to get more water faster. Big 3 is a simple economical way to produce more current to the amp for systems that dont require more amps than the alt can produce.

well adding a 8 awg wire from alt to bat including a fuse will help it anyhow since the stock engine already has the alt to bat wire.

:)

well adding a 8 awg wire from alt to bat including a fuse will help it anyhow since the stock engine already has the alt to bat wire.

:)

correct

goodness.. cant we all just get along? Both sides have points here, theres no reason to negate another's solution. A bigger pipeline (doing the big 3) will allow the alternator us stock folks have to feed the battery at higher efficiency, to a point, but a stronger alternator will have a lager theoretical "feed-rate," assuming then pipeline is wide enough to meet electrical demands. Doesnt make wonder a queerbate, and doesnt make martin an idiot.
This cyber-flaming, however... :P

a 4 gauge wire supports up to 125 amps? or something like that while 8 is 50.....

125 amp stock fuse in my box.....so i'm guessing the alt is 125 volts or something?