Avalon new HP (under new SAE standards)

Avalon is now rated at 268 HP and 248 ft lbs of torque in 06.

Do you know if that's with regular or premium fuel?


These testing changes, along with the fact that Toyota uses HP numbers with premium fuel instead of the much more popular regular, irritates me. The Camry now has under 200HP with a V6, a joke in the midsize sedan world. The only cars in that category with less HP are the Verona and Optima, jokes themselves.


From what I've seen, Toyota has had the biggest drops in power due to these new SAE standards. It just makes Toyota look bad. The general public doesn't understand or care about HP standards, all they care about is how much HP their car has.


Toyota has to start testing their engines with regular fuel, none of this premium fuel crap. Leave that to Lexus and the rest of the luxo manufacturers whose engines actually need premium fuel.

Some of the power loss can be chalked up to using regular unleaded, but the majority of it is because of new testing standards that are more stringent than before. When the rest of the automakers release their 2006 models, similar power losses will occur.

Acura has since pulled the 210 hp RSX Type-S ad, since it now only puts out 201 hp under the new SAE standards.

only 248ft-lb of torque from a 3.5L? they kidding right?

That makes the Ford 500 look good, it makes 2 more hp than the RSX Type-S and only 7 hp less than the V6 Camry, so much for the 500 being underpowered, I guess. :D
Cap'n

You can't compare RSX Type S to a Ford 500. Ford 500 weight ranges from 3600 lbs - 3800 lbs depending on the model while Type S weighs 2868 lbs. Performance wise it is of no comparison to the other two cars in question i.e Camry and Ford 500.

That makes the Ford 500 look good, it makes 2 more hp than the RSX Type-S and only 7 hp less than the V6 Camry, so much for the 500 being underpowered, I guess. :D
Cap'n

Avalon is now rated at 268 HP and 248 ft lbs of torque in 06.
for those of us that dont have all the HP ratings memorized, what was the Avalon rated at?

280hp under old standard

Screw the SAE the Avalon still has 280 hp.

Not at the wheel.

So far, both Honda and Toyota have had the largest losses. Nissan has stayed fairly level, GM is recertifying all its '06 cars and most have stayed level or increased slightly except for the Pontiac Vibe, and Ford is saying that they aren't planning on recertifying until new engines are introduced due to costs, but that they expect changes to be minimal. The Fusion has been SAE certified and is still putting out 221 hp out of the Duratec 30. I have yet to hear anything about DCX.

Toyota and Honda were caught with their hand in the cookie jar on this one...they'll just have to face up to it. Be glad they have a good reputation otherwise...if this had happened to GM and Ford, the media would have had a field day with it.

Here's a thread someone started over at GMI compiling all the horsepower changes into one post.
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18394&highlight=horsepower

You can't compare RSX Type S to a Ford 500. Ford 500 weight ranges from 3600 lbs - 3800 lbs depending on the model while Type S weighs 2868 lbs. Performance wise it is of no comparison to the other two cars in question i.e Camry and Ford 500.I wasnt talking about weight, I was talking strictly about power.
Cap'n

So far, both Honda and Toyota have had the largest losses. Nissan has stayed fairly level, GM is recertifying all its '06 cars and most have stayed level or increased slightly except for the Pontiac Vibe, and Ford is saying that they aren't planning on recertifying until new engines are introduced due to costs, but that they expect changes to be minimal. The Fusion has been SAE certified and is still putting out 221 hp out of the Duratec 30. I have yet to hear anything about DCX.

Toyota and Honda were caught with their hand in the cookie jar on this one...they'll just have to face up to it. Be glad they have a good reputation otherwise...if this had happened to GM and Ford, the media would have had a field day with it.

Here's a thread someone started over at GMI compiling all the horsepower changes into one post.
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18394&highlight=horsepowerToyota in NO way lied about their ratings. I find it funny that Ford won't retest their engines, as it seems they've got something to hide no?

Lied, no. However, they didnt use the same standard. From what I understand, the SAE system tests the engine with a/c and power steering so that it better represents the real-world power the engine will produce.
As far as Ford, what do they have to hide? Yet another blatant bash of the domestics by 84Cress. :disappoin
Personally, I think this whole new testing standard is BS. However, it does seem like it puts all the manufacturers on a level playing field. That way, they cant test a model with no a/c and make it look like its producing more power than the competition.
I think they should just put the car on a chassis dyno and show how much power gets lost through the tranny. Tranny efficiency can make a big difference in how much power actually gets to the ground.
Cap'n

avalon isn't the only car to to take a hit. the 06 corolla, echo, scion xa, xb, and i'll assume the camry all took hits. i hate that the there smallest engine in the echo and scion cars took such a hit with it being arleady low powered but if its a better representation that is a good thing.

when Toyota test their cars, does the weather affect the test?

Any of you guys know what's the difference between the SAE's old testing procedures and their new one?

when Toyota test their cars, does the weather affect the test?I dont think so. Id be willing to bet they have their own dyno room, where the temp and humidty are regulated, so weather shouldnt be much of a factor.
Cap'n

Any of you guys know what's the difference between the SAE's old testing procedures and their new one?There was a thread about this, try doing a search next time. :nono: That way we wont be wasting bandwidth by talking about the same thing over and over and over.
Heres is a thread about the SAE standards: http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/t90919.html
Cap'n

I dont think so. Id be willing to bet they have their own dyno room, where the temp and humidty are regulated, so weather shouldnt be much of a factor.
Cap'n

Well, If you turn down the temp and make the air cooler, you'll get a couple extra horsies....

True, but Id bet the regulations state a certain temp for the test.
Cap'n

I know this thread isn't about a Camry, but I have to get this off my chest, and I didn't want to start a whole new thread. Toyota has been getting a lot of shit for losing so much "on paper" horsepower and torque, especially on the Camry V6s. Well, as I've said before, the Camry lost more horsepower because Toyota decided to test with regular fuel. The 1MZ/3MZ run higher compression than most, so the knock sensor was retarding the timing with 87 octane.

The 3MZ-FE with PREMIUM fuel, under the new SAE standards, actually fares quite well:
218hp @ 5200rpm (-7hp, from 225)
236lb-ft @ 3600rpm (-4lb-ft, from 240)

This is versus the 210hp/220lb-ft rating shown for the Camry using 87 octane. The new rating comes from the 2006 Lexus ES330 (http://www.lexus.com/models/es/specifications.html).

8 hp, big deal...:rolleyes:
Cap'n

I'd say 16lb-ft is a big deal, and it'll help when you're carrying fat asses in your car. :ugh3:

The power of the car is unchanged so all the rave reviews of the Avalon being a performer will still exist.

Anyway to get that power back? What did the SAE do to bring down the hp? My mom is going to buy an Avalon limited next summer and by god I want that 280!:mad:

okok.. first, it's just a different testing method! You're not "losing" hp and torque so to speak. If you buy an 05 Avalon, you won't get 280hp and if you buy an 06 Avalon, you won't get jipped by getting "only" 268hp. The Avalon's engine is putting out the same amount of power (aside from the loss from regular fuel vs. premium) so you're still getting the same power as before. An 05 will still get closer to 268hp than the 280hp stated in the brochure anyway so why fool yourself?

^ Because 280 sounds better than 268.:lol:

No way, i went to the Toyota I deal with today and I asked George, manager of sales dept, about the power decreases. He told me, heres the key to an 05 Sport Edition 4wd and heres the key to the newly arrived display 4Runner 06 SR5 2wd. The 05 felt like it had alot more take off face sucking juice than the 06. Both wer V6s.

not for nothing, but its all mental. You already had the assumption of lower HP. 12hp is not going to make the difference between face sucking and non-face sucking. :)

Also it was 4wd vs 2wd.