Morons have now started writing about Durability......

See the durability survey below for 3 year old cars.

http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=4022547&src=LP%20used

AND then explain to me how Chevy Prizm was named the BEST durable small car and NOT Toyota Corolla?

AND then explain to me since when is a Lincoln durability better than Toyota?

Did a GM official have a GUN to the writer's head?
I am not believing a WORD this article is throwing out at me.

Why was Camry not mentioned?

They mentioned the 4Runner. If there was a "Chevy" counter part, I bet they would have mentioned Chevy, kind of like the PRIZM, not the Corolla. Since they "PREFER" to put the GM vehicle name up, not TOYOTA.

I think now a days, any Jack/Jim/Harry can get off the street and try to write a "durability survey" out of his a**.

HOW ABOUT A 15 YEAR SURVEY?? LET'S SEE WHO SURVIVES AFTER 15 YEARS?

It is a little odd, but consider this: When someone buys a Toyota they expect it to be absolutely perfect. When something minor irks them, they consider it a "problem".

However, if someone buys a GM, Ford etc., they are more than likely not expecting as much as a Toyota owner would. But when the car surpasses their expectations they think it's as reliable as ever. Thus, owners are praising the "average" vehicles and owners are complaining about the "perfect" vehicles.

To put it in another way, a minor squeak, rattle (or something picky like a rear defroster not working as fast as they expected) would be considered a problem to the average Toyota owner while a GM owner would only pay attention to the more major problems like transmission failure, overheating engine, brakes failing, engines stalling etc. Overall, the Toyota owner would probably report with more "problems" than a GM owner.

Then there's the older people who buy the Buicks, Lincolns and Cadillacs who were used to driving the "older cars" that might have squeaked, rattled and had exteremely poor build quality, so their new(er) cars might be "perfect" in their opinion and they don't report that many problems.

I hope I made sense :lol:

It is a little odd, but consider this: When someone buys a Toyota they expect it to be absolutely perfect. When something minor irks them, they consider it a "problem".

However, if someone buys a GM, Ford etc., they are more than likely not expecting as much as a Toyota owner would. But when the car surpasses their expectations they think it's as reliable as ever. Thus, owners are praising the "average" vehicles and owners are complaining about the "perfect" vehicles.

To put it in another way, a minor squeak, rattle (or something picky like a rear defroster not working as fast as they expected) would be considered a problem to the average Toyota owner while a GM owner would only pay attention to the more major problems like transmission failure, overheating engine, brakes failing, engines stalling etc. Overall, the Toyota owner would probably report with more "problems" than a GM owner.

Then there's the older people who buy the Buicks, Lincolns and Cadillacs who were used to driving the "older cars" that might have squeaked, rattled and had exteremely poor build quality, so their new(er) cars might be "perfect" in their opinion and they don't report that many problems.

I hope I made sense :lol:
I absolutely agree.

About these OLDER people, their BUICKS are driven about 300 miles in a year anyway... :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I was a longtime GM guy. I have owned 3 Camaros, 3 Silverados and one Avalanche. I finally got fed up with them. I got so damn mad at the Avalanche I had. It had about 22 thousand on it and the transmission made a clunking sound when it engaged. I got rid of it and got the Tacoma. I could'nt be happier. Now, when I ride in my parents Silverado, I hear so many creaks and rattles that I hold on for dear life. I think you are right about the GM people expecting the car or truck to rattle.

Kind of makes you wonder if GM and Ford didnt grease a few palms along the way as well. My sister-in-law has a Lincoln LS and in my opinion its a POS. When the car was 3 years old the heating element in the front seats went bad and cost them $2500 to replace.
Cap'n

In the corolla/prizm deal somehow there was an alternator exchange. The corollas were equipped with a delco(GM) part while the prizm got a nippon-denso. This is more than likely the reason for the durability confusion as the GM part gave far more troubles than the nippon.

I remember how they compared the Prizm and the Corolla. Take the Prizm if you want a better deal and keep it for a long time. Take the Corolla if you're gonna sell it in 3 years. My friend has a 1995 Geo Prizm that he brought up to Canada. He still uses it and it runs fine. It's on OEM tyres on the rears, new on the front (bad combo, I know.) and something like 55,000 miles. Anyway, the point is, it may be near identical in mechanical parts aside from what Tercel GTS mentioned above but I've sat in his car and it's horrible. I've had a 97 and 00 Corolla in our family and this 95 pales in comparison. It pales even when compared to my uncle's 93 Corolla. The seats are super firm and covered in this plasticky vinyl thing, the radio is typical GM, the plastics are okay I guess. The floor mats are thin and crap. The trunk is lined with... well, it isn't lined with anything, really. I can't believe GM managed to take a good solid car and crapperize it (hehe, new word :P). Yeah sure it has alloys, power windows/door locks/mirrors etc but he already has a busted power window (switch or rotor, i dunno), and the door locks don't work, his trunk looks worse than a 70s junkyard car with moss. I'm actually surprised the paintwork survived 10 years! I guess I could give GM credit for that.

Actually that should be Toyota paint. And the reason you sell the corolla in 3 years but keep the prizm is resale value. In 3 the prizm is worth maybe half it's original cost due to the GM name on it while the toyota still brings the bucks.

Last night on the news they were talking about this study that the University of Michigan did.
They said that overall Toyota owners are happier than owners of other brands because they have fewer problems with their vehicles. They said that Honda came in 2nd place and Ford came in last.
What these morons dont realize is that there are more Fords sold in the United States than there are Toyotas and Hondas. The more vehicles you have on the road, the more likely it will be that you will have problems.
They didnt mention GM because the town I live in will NEVER say anything bad about GM (GM placed about as well as Ford did).
Cap'n

JD Power is full of shit. The S10, LS, Malibu, Windstar, Century, LeSabre, and more are junk. The Prism should be our victory not GM's. JD Power consideres the Avalon a "Premium Midsize Car" when it's always been a LARGE. Once again GM takes advantage of Toyota, by rebadging their cars, and getting credit for Toyota's quality. Consumer Reports actually knows what they're talking about unlike JD Power.

Not to mention GM has a lotta cars and trucks. But it's funny how GM will change a car to suit "American" tastes. e.g. screwing up the Corolla and somehow managed to mess up the Prizm. Taking the superb Holden Monaro and making it a Pontiac GTO 5.7 which flopped (but I believe GM is gonna breathe life into it), and taking the Vauxhall/Opel Omega and making it the Cadillac Catera. Seriously now, the last two cars are GM's own. If they had directly import it (with hte certifications of course), they'd be better off rather than trying to "Americanize" the car. Give us what the other countries have, not what you think we might like.

crapperize it (hehe, new word :P) :lol::lol::lol: check urbandictionary.com to see if some dog had already pissed on the tree for that word, otherwise go and mark your territory :lol:


and :werd: to all the responses here so far

What these morons dont realize is that there are more Fords sold in the United States than there are Toyotas and Hondas. The more vehicles you have on the road, the more likely it will be that you will have problems.

Cap'n
Captain.... I thought Toyota had overtaken FORD in sales... :confused:

There are still more Fords in USA. As well as Mercedeses... I mean Chryslers. Hence "The big 3".

^ :confused:

There are more Mercedes and Fords than any other car brand in America??? Chyrsler Corp and Mercedes-Benz are merged entities plus who the hell would call their Benz a f'in Chrysler? Anyways, the irony in that is according to JD Power and Consumer Report, Benz has more reliability issues than their American partner, Chrysler.

Captain.... I thought Toyota had overtaken FORD in sales... :confused:Yes and no. Toyota has overtaken Ford in WORLDWIDE sales but not in US sales.
In the US Ford still outsells Toyota by about 800,000 vehicles a year.
Cap'n

the big three is no longer applicable. that list is made using just numbers- x problems times x cars = whatever grade they go by. i didnt read it. im sure there are other variables too. but thatd explaint the geo prizm vs corolla. there are alot more corollas on the road vs prisms.

Thats just like JD Power's quality survey. They claim that the Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra have fewer defects than the Ford F-150. However, its unfair because the Silverado/Sierra is mechanically the same truck but they get to divide the defects between 2 vehicles whereas the F-150 doesnt.
Cap'n

Fuck the GM and the writers, thats the dumbest thing i have ever heard, I had a dodge neon brand new for 5 months intil the lemon law got me my money back my toyotas go up to 200 thousand miles!!!!!!!!!!!!

^ :confused:

There are more Mercedes and Fords than any other car brand in America??? Chyrsler Corp and Mercedes-Benz are merged entities plus who the hell would call their Benz a f'in Chrysler? Anyways, the irony in that is according to JD Power and Consumer Report, Benz has more reliability issues than their American partner, Chrysler.Mercedes, or any European automaker didn't have any quality to begin with. They've always been overrated junk.

Mercedes, or any European automaker didn't have any quality to begin with. They've always been overrated junk.

AGREE.......... AGREE............ AGREE....... :D

Fuck the GM and the writers, thats the dumbest thing i have ever heard, I had a dodge neon brand new for 5 months intil the lemon law got me my money back my toyotas go up to 200 thousand miles!!!!!!!!!!!!Hey noob...read the rules. 7.) Use appropriate language!
Cap'n

Mercedes, or any European automaker didn't have any quality to begin with. They've always been overrated junk.

One word to you my friend:
Porsche.


Generalizing like that isn't smart... unless you end it with a smilie that indicates you were joking ;)

One word to you my friend:
Porsche. :werd: