Car and Driver: IS350 vs G35 vs TL vs 330i etc.

The new October edition of car and driver has a comparo ($35K sport sedans) among Lexus IS350, BMW 330i, Acura TL, 300 HP G35 and other cars. The Lexus IS was by far the fastest car of the group in every acceleration test ( 0 - 60 in 5.1) even when it had the 6 speed sport shift auto while all the other cars had a manual transmission. Nothing else was close. If the IS were manual, it would have to be compared to E46 M3 instead of any of these cars. IS350 finished second to 330i. 330i was ahead only by 1 point.

im impressed. first gen is was a slug compared to the other luxo sedans :)

Aw Skeet skeet :jerkit: .. Damnit.. this or the new Cam.. :rolleyes:

:woot:yota powa

Didn't the 330 get the point because of handling? and didnt their 330 have problems?

Yeah, VDIM did not allow the IS350 to be pushed to it's limits. As a result, 330i had better numbers on the slaloms and the lane change. However, that is where it ended. The Lexus owned all the other cars in every other department, but C & D would not get the cheque from BMW if they did not place it above every other car.

Didn't the 330 get the point because of handling? and didnt their 330
have problems?

Yeah, why is it that the 3 series and Accord are always at the top no matter what the other cars are? Are they really that good according to C/D or is it just plain bias?

Yeah, why is it that the 3 series and Accord are always at the top no matter what the other cars are? Are they really that good according to C/D or is it just plain bias?C&D has a HUGE Honda bias. Accord on the 10 best 19 times, and Camry only on 3 WTF? They also have a BMW bias, but its to a lesser extent.

The fact that IS350 faired so good at C&D's test is a victory itself. Lexus should be very proud of this and I pray they will make a real VDIM-off button. With that it will be extremely difficult for the mags not to let it win.

And lets see if the so called bias holds when the new Camry hits the ground :whatwhat:

There's a heated debate going on in Edmunds forum because apparently the comparo used BMW's breaking stats from the outgoing model on this test because the test model's brakes failed...I need to go find that mag during lunch....

*Addendum* Alright so I bought the magazine over lunch. It seems the test Bimmer they had had an ABS malfunction that "nearly executed a 360 spin at 70 mph".

CrimsonO2

Hey Crimson. Can you give us the link to the thread at Edmunds where they talk about the comparo? I can't find it in there. Such a n00b at that side :D

Hey Crimson. Can you give us the link to the thread at Edmunds where they talk about the comparo? I can't find it in there. Such a n00b at that side :D
Is it in good taste to link to another forum in another forum? Oh well, guess I'll find out soon enough..

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef0a892!make=BMW&model=3%20Series&ed_makeindex=.ef0a892

CrimsonO2

It has been done many times before without any complaints. I think it's fine as long as there isn't any promotions or financial interests going on.
Thanks ;)

Yeah, why is it that the 3 series and Accord are always at the top no matter what the other cars are? Are they really that good according to C/D or is it just plain bias?
I would vote for the latter, which is why I never buy C/D anymore. It's often not worth the paper it's printed on. :thumbdown

*Addendum* Alright so I bought the magazine over lunch. It seems the test Bimmer they had had an ABS malfunction that "nearly executed a 360 spin at 70 mph".

CrimsonO2
Thats what i was talking about when i said that the bimmer had problems.:disappoin
oh well, im sure that a lot of us think that the is350 was the true winner.:clap:

its not that C/D has a Honda/BMW bias....they have a handling/driving experience bias

i mean I love toyota/lexus as much as the next guy, but I have owned an IS and many camry's, and the other 2 (honda/BMW) are just flat out more fun to drive

when I bought the IS, I wanted a 3 series, but due to the attitude of the sales people and their not so friendly service stats at BMW, I decided to go with the IS

ill take one please:D

if a tester has a problem such as brake failure, it should be automatically disqualified anyways. C/D is telling people that the car is a winner even though it cant stop properly unless it hits a wall.

wow

hmmm. i now have another next car in mind to think about

erAw Skeet skeet :jerkit: .. Damnit.. this or the new Cam.. :rolleyes:I'm in the same boat as you!http://toyotanation.com/forum/images/smilies/confused.gifhttp://toyotanation.com/forum/images/smilies/scratchhead.gif

So, what the fuck is Car and Driver making a "Top ten"??? They are stritcly about DRIVING? No fuckin' effect from the electronic failures??? The 7 series is fuckin' posessed with elec probs. Ah well, it fgures they are strictly about dribing since it's not them partin' cash and putting up with a car for 5 years or more. Fuck the BMW. I got respect for it 'cuz it does handle but when your fuckin' REVIEW has problems in it, I dont' want to see what MY money will bring me. Fuck them for using the last year's performance numbers, that's bullshit. What if they did that to this Lexus, the numbers would totally suck! Anyways.. whatever... FUCK LARRY WEBSTER!!!!!!!!!!

I'll go to Lexus. Reliablity and dependability, that's moving you forward!
Toyota......

C&D? I'll stick to real driving test like Top Gear, thank you. :D

If you total up the numbers in the magazine, Lexus IS350 tied the 330i, but they miscalculated and give IS350 one less point and placed it second. :rolleyes:

You're right! I tried adding up the points as well and they both tied at 212. I'm going to write C&D and see what they say (if they don't just delete my email that is).

I don't know why magazines like driving a vehicle to its limits. It may be fun, true, but how many people do you know of buy an expensive luxury vehicle (that has stability control programmed for safety) and then complain the system doesn't make the car corner any better? Stability control is supposed to save your ass, not make it feel good in the twisties. :nono:

I have never driven any of these cars, but the "miscalculation" has gotten me suspicious. They should have just made it a tie and got it over and done with. :rolleyes:

So, what the fuck is Car and Driver making a "Top ten"??? They are stritcly about DRIVING? No fuckin' effect from the electronic failures??? The 7 series is fuckin' posessed with elec probs. Ah well, it fgures they are strictly about dribing since it's not them partin' cash and putting up with a car for 5 years or more. Fuck the BMW. I got respect for it 'cuz it does handle but when your fuckin' REVIEW has problems in it, I dont' want to see what MY money will bring me. Fuck them for using the last year's performance numbers, that's bullshit. What if they did that to this Lexus, the numbers would totally suck! Anyways.. whatever... FUCK LARRY WEBSTER!!!!!!!!!!

I'll go to Lexus. Reliablity and dependability, that's moving you forward!
Toyota......:werd: :thumbup:

C/D Top Ten is gay because C/D :jerkit: to Honda and BMW.

You're right! I tried adding up the points as well and they both tied at 212. I'm going to write C&D and see what they say (if they don't just delete my email that is).

I don't know why magazines like driving a vehicle to its limits. It may be fun, true, but how many people do you know of buy an expensive luxury vehicle (that has stability control programmed for safety) and then complain the system doesn't make the car corner any better? Stability control is supposed to save your ass, not make it feel good in the twisties. :nono:

I have never driven any of these cars, but the "miscalculation" has gotten me suspicious. They should have just made it a tie and got it over and done with. :rolleyes:
You don't have to. SOmeone has done it before you and got the reply that the intermidiate calculations are rounded, and the final score is from the un-rounded numbers.

BTW.
Take a look at the numbers. If you (like me) think the Lexus is styled way better than the BMW, the points for styling would have given the IS the victory.

They simply had to manipulate/adjust the numbers so they came out rigt in their minds. There's nothing you can do to change their minds, but please e-mail them anyway. At least it can't hurt ;)

(Unlike some other auto mag I wrote to. They cropped my mail and posted the remaining parts in their mag to make me look like a complete idiot.) - and it even had my real name in it :disappoin

Jeremy is hilarious! I love the Top Gear reviews. C/D just fuckin' pisses me off. Anyways, it's truly the big irony in it all: 60K+ for a 500HP Corvette when today's fuckin' highway is packed like never before. Only few chances will appear when you can fully pop open that 500HP. Cops will be waiting since it is a CORVETTE. People who buy the 330i and IS350 will never push it to it's limit. They like a little show and go but they aren't about to fuckin' take on Laguna Seca but OF COURSE a couple of people probably go "Fuck this.. for my money.. I'm pushing this thing 'til it screams Uncle..." That would be me;)

I also agree with VDIM and Epinionator. It's like complaining that the airbags add extra weight to the car, bringing down the power-to-weight ratio. I hated how they were bitchy about the GS430's brakes being "Grabby" and that ABS was "annoying". Crashing into another car at 90 MPH is "Annoying".

Hey.. Just call me back when my BRAND NEW 330i doesn't have warning lights, beeps, and whistles going off on the FIRST DAY and THEN I'll say it merits the 1st place position because it EARNED IT. Lexus should have won but C/D has a DTM boner. The 330i does handle and I'll give it that but for that much money, I'd be embarassed having to go to BMW to check all my warning lights and shit. For all of that, I might as well live in the dealership at this rate.


Oh.... Is there anybody buying the Diesel trucks and not using them like they should??? I'd laugh my ass off....

I wrote them the letter yeterday. I tried to butter them up because, I admit, I love their magazine still. Then I point out the "problem" and ask them to explain why it happened. I wrote it in the same style they write their reviews, and I wrote "ERROR" in the subject line. There's no way my letter can be overlooked. :)

I mentioned this website--but not the thread--to credit where I found the error. They can always edit it out if they consider it advertising.

I wonder how Csaba Csere pronounces his name? :whatthe: :confused:

Csaba Csere (Chabba chedda) i think. i kno it seems really weird but im pretty sure in older issues he used to have the pronuciation for it at the top of his column.

Link to the review:

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=9993

Csaba Csere (Chabba chedda) i think. i kno it seems really weird but im pretty sure in older issues he used to have the pronuciation for it at the top of his column.

LOL! Watch Car and Driver Television.

Csaba Csere (Sah-bah Sehr)

My bad. :dunno: o well never seen car and driver TV just tried to remember something from like ten years ago.

I'm almost sure I heard the former way of pronounciation before. I've been pronouncing it the latter way, though. :whatthe:

Oh gosh, I think I just started another topic. Back to the comparison test, people. :lol:

Those magazine editors always favors the Bimmer because they like it whole lot better every year, no matter how much other cars are better and all. :confused:

I would be embarrassed to drive a BMW with all of the electrical problems I've seen on many models. Even in the Car and Driver article, they state that the 3-series' push button start didn't work all the time, warning lights and buzzers were coming on, and even the ABS system seemingly deactivated itself and almost caused the C&D editors to spin out and crash the car. Yet, it still wins? I have a feeling that the editors already chose the 3-series as their winner even before the tests, and skewed the points accordingly. The IS350 is obviously the better car: at least EVERYTHING works PROPERLY!

^Exactly. But we all know that Lexus makes a better car than BMW anyway.:saythat:

I was thinking about the article today so I looked at it again. If you notice what categories they base their scores on (page 112), they don't grade reliability or dependability. I think this is because not all cars will have the same problems and vise versa; not all cars will have perfect reliability, either. It was a hot day (over 100 degrees F), they were pushing these cars to their limits, and they were racing the engines like crazy (I would have to assume that). To me, that's just asking for problems.

From the scores, the Lexus and the BMW had the same "gotta-have-it" factor (23 out of 25), and they virtually tied in the end, so I guess it depends on a person's wants and what brand they like more.

Off-topic, but on the same page there's a picture of the 330i's shift knob. Now would someone like to please tell me how the driver can get into first gear without hitting reverse by accident? Would you have to "push down" and move it to reverse, or what?

Thats how it is on my roomates VW. Very annoying because sometimes you don't push it down enough and end up in first .... evil

The review was weird... just reading the top 3 (G35, IS, 3-series) they seemed to have more complains about the 3-series but it ended up 1st. The IS they had no real complaints other than the small backseat and being unable to disable all the electronic stability stuff. I don't think they said anything bad about the G35. Hmm....

About the 3-series shifter: the XRS's also have the same pattern. Most 6-speeds will place reverse right there next to 1st. In the 2ZZ XRS's, there is a serious 'gate' that you have to push through in order to even get to reverse, so you rarely can select it if you say wanted 1st. Also, there is a lockout feature on downshifting preventing you into reverse. There is also an annoying beeping when you engage reverse.


As for the point mis-calculation......that's terrible!!!!! Isn't it totally obvious to readers that BMW was pre-selected!!! the IS basically tied! Perhaps this is C/D's attempt to tell BMW: "guys...wake up, the Lexus guys did it.....they built a car that can take on your 3.... but we'll take that nice fat cheque anyways"

WOW. I really hope most readers are smart enough to decipher it all and see that the IS is superior to all those cars.........

You are right on all accounts. However, I really like the beeper because in hasty traffic while trying to get out by quickly reversing a few times and then going forward a few times, it is easy to get the reverse and 1st gear mixed up even if the reverse is placed far to the left of 1st. The beeper never let's you forget you are in reverse gear.

About the 3-series shifter: the XRS's also have the same pattern. Most 6-speeds will place reverse right there next to 1st. In the 2ZZ XRS's, there is a serious 'gate' that you have to push through in order to even get to reverse, so you rarely can select it if you say wanted 1st. Also, there is a lockout feature on downshifting preventing you into reverse. There is also an annoying beeping when you engage reverse.

.