Ford: Japanese "hogging" hybrid parts (boo-freakin-hoo)

:disappoin step it up, Ford.. stop whining!

http://www.cnn.com/2005/AUTOS/09/20/bc.autos.summit.ford.hybrids.reut/index.html

Maybe they need to find other suppliers. I am sure they could find someone willing to make the parts for them at a lower cost and that way they can put that company out of business or buy them back also. Like they are doing with VIsteon right now. If they wouldnt have waited so long to get onthe bandwagon that would help also.

Ford can't do that since the hybrid system they developed was too much like Toyotas, so they license it. That's why Escape Hybrids have Toyota engines in them.

Plus, look at the priority. Toyota sells the hybrid synergy to Nissan. Both sell in Japan. Japan fuel is over $6/gallon. US fuel is $3/gallon. Who is more likely to buy the hybrid right now?

I have not checked into the Escape Hybrid very much. I did not realize that they were using Toyota engines. For the past several years everyone has been talking aobut some form of alternative fuel system or hybrid. It jsut so happens Toyota came up with the better way of putting it into mass production. NOw everyone else is wanting to use their technology to be able to also have hybrid vehicles. Then when they have to license the product and also compete with the company they are licensing the product from to get the materials needed for it they want to complain. THey have all had many years to work on these projsucts so they should have gotten their ass in gear years ago so they wouldnt have to worry about it now.

I understand R/D is expensive and it is much easeir to let someone else come up with it then license it, but if that is the route you are going to take then you have no right to bitch about the other company being predatory and taking all of the materials needed for you to do your job.

You should have done it ourself inthe first damn place.


I just went to the Ford website and it looks like they are using their old 2.3L 4cyl for the gasoline engine in the hybrid. Are you sure they are using Toyota engines. I dont remember Toyota havinga 2.3L engine.

There are no Toyota parts in Fords. They simoly licensed the tech, but are not sharing parts.

Yep. Ford developed its hybrid system entirely on their own. They're even looking for patents. Their finished product has some parts similar to Toyota so to avoid a lawsuit, Ford and Toyota basically "came to an agreement". No money was exchanged but other things were. I'm not sure what things were traded for the "licence"

Toyota got access to Ford's diesel knowledge and Ford got access to Toyota's hybrid knowledge.

The electric motor on the Escape Hybrid is made by the same company that makes the electric motors for the Toyota hybrids.
However, I dont think that the Escape's gas engine is a Toyota engine. :dunno:
Cap'n

Funny how the FoMoCo CEO bitches about "predatory" hybrid parts hogging considering they're 5 years behind in rampup.

Huh? How inflamatory - and moronic.

Toyota got their orders in first...so they get their parts first. Same deal when you buy a car. FIFO.

Empty complaint. :disappoin

Toyota and Aisin are part of a keiretsu, so it's no real surprise that they are favoring Toyota. Ford is planning on doing more in-house work for the Fusion and Milan hybrids and dumping Aisin in the near future.

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0508/13/A01-272872.htm

With all the electrical problems Ford has (fires, ect), the fact that they are going to go with a different supplier than Aisin is a scary thought. :ugh3:
Cap'n

With all the electrical problems Ford has (fires, ect), the fact that they are going to go with a different supplier than Aisin is a scary thought. :ugh3:
Cap'nCome on Captain Toyota, the fires are a completely different issue related to a supplier who made poor quality cruise control switches in the 90s and the penny-pinching Jac Nasser gave the go ahead to use them...they have nothing to do with the current state of Ford or their hybrid technology.

Maybe not, Dsmnick, but Ford now has a history of vehicle fires. It started on the Focus and now they have it on the F-150. Dont forget about all the problems Ford has with the electronics on the 6.0L diesel.
How about the digital odometer display that only works about 50% of the time (something Ford is known for)?
Ive had my fair share of electrical problems with my '99 F-150. :disappoin
Cap'n

Maybe not, Dsmnick, but Ford now has a history of vehicle fires. It started on the Focus and now they have it on the F-150. Dont forget about all the problems Ford has with the electronics on the 6.0L diesel.
How about the digital odometer display that only works about 50% of the time (something Ford is known for)?
Ive had my fair share of electrical problems with my '99 F-150. :disappoin
Cap'nAnd the Toyota doesn't have fires either?

I saw your postings on carsurvery.org and thought you might be able to give me some direction. On August 12, my mother was in a horrific car fire in her 2000 Sienna. Her two collies died in the fire and she has third degree burns over 30% of her body. She may not survive the ordeal. Her Sienna was her secondary vehicle and probably had no more
than 40,000 miles on it, if that. I'm not quite sure when her last oil change was but I would bet that she had no more than ! 7,500 between oil
changes. I read your article on Cartrackers.com and I wondered if the ending result of my current situation might have some baring to your findings.

My knowledge on this subject is extremely limited, however, I wondered if I might ask you if this Sludge or Engine Oil Build-up problem you speak of could cause eventually oil pump failures/ engine acceleration to diminish/ ultimately blowing the engine all together?

I own a 1995 Toyota 4-Runner, unfortunately now, I affectionately refer to it as the worlds largest paperweight sitting in the driveway for over a year now. Just after I purchased it in 1999, I began to notice a large reduction in acceleration. Come to think of it I dont think it ever had the pick-up it should have had.

This car was taken care of very well, the oil changed every 3-6 thousand miles and in its last hours died with 80k miles on the speedometer. I had just put two quarts of oil in the afternoon before. The next morning I headed to work, stopped for coffee which was not normal, and headed down the road. Not 10 minutes into the drive I hear this loud rapid clicking noise. A large bang and that was all she wrote. Naturally, I got out looked under the hood and to my surprise FIRE! So, human instinct kicked inyep, one large cappuccino! Notice how both mention oil...could the oil sludging problem that seems to affect certain Toyotas to a higher proportion be causing these fires? And are there others out there that we haven't heard about? I hadn't heard about fires in the 2002 and 2004 Siennas until I did a little research.

As for the digital odometer failures, it seems to be affecting mostly 1999 F-150 models for some reason.

Care to provide a link for those, Dsmnick? For all we know you could have written that yourself.
Cap'n

Care to provide a link for those, Dsmnick? For all we know you could have written that yourself.
Cap'nSure thing.

http://groups.msn.com/ToyotaOwnersUniteforResolution/enginefires.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=245&LastModified=4675375055013346982

http://groups.msn.com/ToyotaOwnersUniteforResolution/enginefires.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=553&LastModified=4675443912271086059

http://www.accidentreconstruction.com/news/aug03/081503a.asp

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2001/12/03/033044.html

Wow, trying to put blame on Toyota, when Ford themselves knew the switch was faulty. Noble & lame:thumbdown :rolleyes: Do you think the people who changed the oil had something to do with it? Those 2 fires are nothing compared to the






16 MILLION FORDS That were involved.

Wow, trying to put blame on Toyota, when Ford themselves knew the switch was faulty. Noble & lame:thumbdown :rolleyes: Do you think the people who changed the oil had something to do with it? Those 2 fires are nothing compared to the






Cressida, you have some real nerve to be calling my retort lame when everything you post is fanboy bashing of other brands. At least I acknowledge when Toyota does something good...but I don't get them a free pass when they do something wrong. Do you ever stop and think that maybe the designers at Toyota should have redesigned the engine since the oil sludging probelms seem to spread over a 10 year timeframe? Have they ever lived up to the fact that they had a crappy engine design that tended to build up oil more quickly even with regular oil changes? The oil sludging issue is well-documented, Cress. Go google "Oil Sludging" and every link that comes up will be related to Toyota. How many millions of Toyotas are affected by this oil sludging issue? Unfortunately, I don't think we will ever be told the answer.

At least oil sludging doesn't KILL people, and I read that it only affected 4cyl Camrys from 97-01, and the ones that were affected were only 1% of all those Camrys. I'll go look, and see if I can find it.

At least oil sludging doesn't KILL people, and I read that it only affected 4cyl Camrys from 97-01, and the ones that were affected were only 1% of all those Camrys. I'll go look, and see if I can find it.So the poor woman that nearly lost her life (maybe she did?) and lost her two pets doesn't count? This is just one case that was found on an obscure website...how many other obscure cases are out there? The oil sludging doesn't just affect Camrys...it affects Siennas, RAV-4s, and Tacomas. Go dig around that website I provided or carsurvey.org.

At least oil sludging doesn't KILL people, and I read that it only affected 4cyl Camrys from 97-01, and the ones that were affected were only 1% of all those Camrys. I'll go look, and see if I can find it.


Second, Toyota said it will pay for sludge-related repairs for eight years from the date of purchase for all 1997-2002 Toyota and Lexus vehicles with the 3.0-liter IMZ V-6 engine and all 1997-2001 Toyota vehicles with the now discontinued 5SFE 2.2-liter four-cylinder engine.

http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=38921

Unfotunately 84Cressida it is more than jsut the 5S-FE. I am one of the biggest fans of Toyota but they did screw up on this one. and before that there was the infamous 3VZ headgasket problem. This one they also decided to extend the warranty to 8 years from date of purchase. Overall yes Toyota has great quality but jsut like very other manufacturer they have their problems. It is like I have heard people say, they arent built in heaven. Anything taht is designed by a human has the potential to screw up. It has always been this way and will always be this way no matter how much time and effort the manufacturers put into it.

As to sludge not killing people and all that. Technically yes the engine sludging could in fact cause fires that could seriously hurt or kill people. If the engine throws a rod and oil is prayed onto the hot exhaust manifolds there is the potential for fires.

Don't forget that the 7M enginens have problems with hg too. But toyota fixed that by priming the hg and torquing the headbolts to 72ft lbs of torque. Toyotas FWD V6 engines where the ones that wer affected by this oilsludge problem. The tacoma wasn't affected but doesn't mean that no engine can devolope engine sludge.

Thats really sad what happened to that lady and her 2 dogs, but I have never seen any evidence that points to a Toyota design flaw.
I looked at your links, Dsmnick, and I find it hard to believe the stuff on that MSN site is credible when people call the Corolla's engine "junk". :rolleyes:
Any engine can develop sludge, its not limited to just Toyotas.
Cap'n

Sludge problems arent limited to Toyota, check this out:
http://www.dodgeforum.com/m_37524/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#37524
http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=100717
http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=52594
http://www.carsurvey.org/review_46550.html
:dunno:
Cap'n

All manufacturer's cars can catch fire - and have. Some more than others - and that results in recalls like Ford's.

Focus on the ball boys - ignore the noise... :lol:

One of my ex-coworkers had a late-model Nissan Xterra catch fire just after the brakes started going out. He pulled into a parking lot after the brakes started going out, and he got out of the car. Thirty seconds later there were flames billowing from the hood.

-Joel